I don't blame PG but I do remember the day that you had to qualify for WWBA by being a true elite team not just in name or you had to win a certain tournament. I cannot blame them at all because if I was running it and you were willing to bring money, I'm taking it.
PitchingFan posted:I don't blame PG but I do remember the day that you had to qualify for WWBA by being a true elite team not just in name or you had to win a certain tournament. I cannot blame them at all because if I was running it and you were willing to bring money, I'm taking it.
i agree with you, but you certainly cannot bill this thing as the most competitive tournament on the planet. Largest? Perhaps. Most competitive...decidedly not
stayfocused posted:Gary......2019.
and how has your son responded to those offers? Is he pumped about the JUCO and D2 interest or is he holding out hope for D1 offers still (if he hasn't gotten any). Would appreciate a sincere answer, the question is sincere.
old_school - If I spend my money on something based on a hope and a prayer, knowing full well what its about and it doesn't pan out, then I don't come on a message board and gripe about it being a money factory. Thats all.
My money, my decision...my fault if it doesn't go as I dreamed it might. We've all experienced that in some form or another. No one holds you up at gun point. The internet has TONS of information about all of this - easy to find and read. PG is providing a well known product and venue for us to use if we choose - demand went WAY up, they scaled to meet demand like nearly any business.
Totally agree with that. I would have done the exact same thing. Fact is we had great time at a great event and would do it again. For some it has never been about the money, it is about perceived value for the money. They are totally different.
There is room for improvement on the inevitable growing pains. I believe you can be a fan / supporter of an organization while still allowing there is places things can and should be improved, I can’t imagine that would be a controversial thought.
Gary he and I are extremely grateful for the offers. Beyond excited at the opportunity. We have one more PG tournament in ATL this weekend. He has not made any decisions yet.
WWBA is the biggest tournament. Not the most competitive. It used to be, now anybody can go. Average fastball went from like 88 to 81/82.
Most competitive has to be the PG WS which is truly elite and then Jupiter in the fall. All pro prospects in some shape/form.
The 17U PG World Series is being held this week in Arizona, starting today. Have to be a top team or won something to get invited. I'm willing to bet the average velo is upper 80's. It will be interesting. Son flew out this morning to pitch tomorrow.
PitchingFan posted:The 17U PG World Series is being held this week in Arizona, starting today. Have to be a top team or won something to get invited. I'm willing to bet the average velo is upper 80's. It will be interesting. Son flew out this morning to pitch tomorrow.
It's a good field, for sure. And a lot more West Coast representation than is typical for PG events (10 of the 35 teams from CA).
i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
And as I write this I see where the pitcher throwing against son's team has only topped 80 as a rhp. Didn't expect that out of the gate at this tournament.
PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
The rosters with these teams are so fluid that there is no TEAM. The only thing that does not change is the name on the shirt, front that is. When you look at these rosters, they change regularly. Guys are added and dropped regularly according to availability and ability.
PitchingFan posted:The rosters with these teams are so fluid that there is no TEAM. The only thing that does not change is the name on the shirt, front that is. When you look at these rosters, they change regularly. Guys are added and dropped regularly according to availability and ability.
Which in my mind means it's not really a team in the traditional sense of the word
GaryMe posted:PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
It gets you more customers - as in paying players and paying attendees to your tryouts, academy...whatever your business model is.
GaryMe posted:PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
I dropped in to see the facilities of an academy that invited my son to play 17u for them. The Upton brothers names were on the wall among other major leaguers. Then I saw the names or two kids I had played college summer ball with their dads. At the time they were playing for a SEC powerhouse. They didn’t live within 400 miles. The Upton brother lived 275 miles away.
I called one of the friends. His son was recruited at a regional PG event to play one tournament at East Cobb for the academy. Playing for the acedemy was free. All he had to do was get there. So not only was the academy throwing their players under the bus. They were throwing paying players under the bus.
Academies load up rosters because the trophies and names on the wall attract those who don’t ask questions.
There is a legitimate reason to add pitchers. A tournament may be longer than a typical weekend . The team needs more pitchers so they don’t overuse their pitchers.
RJM posted:GaryMe posted:PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
I dropped in to see the facilities of an academy that invited my son to play 17u for them. The Upton brothers names were on the wall among other major leaguers. Then I saw the names or two kids I had played college summer ball with their dads. At the time they were playing for a SEC powerhouse. They didn’t live within 400 miles. The Upton brother lived 275 miles away.
I called one of the friends. His son was recruited at a regional PG event to play one tournament at East Cobb for the academy. Playing for the acedemy was free. All he had to do was get there. So not only was the academy throwing their players under the bus. They were throwing paying players under the bus.
Academies load up rosters because the trophies and names on the wall attract those who don’t ask questions.
There is a legitimate reason to add pitchers. A tournament may be longer than a typical weekend . The team needs more pitchers so they don’t overuse their pitchers.
RJM,
With all due respect you are way behind. The vast majority of top teams if not all of them operate this way, the ages act like a pyramid of talent condensing to the top few handfuls of teams on a national level. I don't have an opinion or care about right or wrong, it is just the way it is. There is no loyalty or training, just come swear by the colors if we think you are good enough.
Kid tosses great game somewhere VS a big boy and the next month shows up with them wearing the uniform.
Travel Baseball and by extension college baseball have been ugly nasty places covered up with smoke, mirrors and apple pie for years. it is just the way it is.
old_school posted:RJM posted:GaryMe posted:PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
I dropped in to see the facilities of an academy that invited my son to play 17u for them. The Upton brothers names were on the wall among other major leaguers. Then I saw the names or two kids I had played college summer ball with their dads. At the time they were playing for a SEC powerhouse. They didn’t live within 400 miles. The Upton brother lived 275 miles away.
I called one of the friends. His son was recruited at a regional PG event to play one tournament at East Cobb for the academy. Playing for the acedemy was free. All he had to do was get there. So not only was the academy throwing their players under the bus. They were throwing paying players under the bus.
Academies load up rosters because the trophies and names on the wall attract those who don’t ask questions.
There is a legitimate reason to add pitchers. A tournament may be longer than a typical weekend . The team needs more pitchers so they don’t overuse their pitchers.
RJM,
With all due respect you are way behind. The vast majority of top teams if not all of them operate this way, the ages act like a pyramid of talent condensing to the top few handfuls of teams on a national level. I don't have an opinion or care about right or wrong, it is just the way it is. There is no loyalty or training, just come swear by the colors if we think you are good enough.
Kid tosses great game somewhere VS a big boy and the next month shows up with them wearing the uniform.
Travel Baseball and by extension college baseball have been ugly nasty places covered up with smoke, mirrors and apple pie for years. it is just the way it is.
100% correct
GaryMe posted:PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
1. It gets you more exposure and experience. 2. The more games you win, the more you get to keep playing which is rewarding in and of it self.
old_school posted:RJM posted:GaryMe posted:PitchingFan posted:i think it is a true which team is best tournament. Everybody is stacking pitching this week. Noticed several new players on rosters that were not at WWBA with the same teams.
Which begs the question: why? If these aren't the guys who got you there, then does winning a tournament really matter so much that you add guys from other programs just to try to win it? What does it get you? I know, you're competing against the best out there. But if your team wins it with hired guns, did your team really win it?
I dropped in to see the facilities of an academy that invited my son to play 17u for them. The Upton brothers names were on the wall among other major leaguers. Then I saw the names or two kids I had played college summer ball with their dads. At the time they were playing for a SEC powerhouse. They didn’t live within 400 miles. The Upton brother lived 275 miles away.
I called one of the friends. His son was recruited at a regional PG event to play one tournament at East Cobb for the academy. Playing for the acedemy was free. All he had to do was get there. So not only was the academy throwing their players under the bus. They were throwing paying players under the bus.
Academies load up rosters because the trophies and names on the wall attract those who don’t ask questions.
There is a legitimate reason to add pitchers. A tournament may be longer than a typical weekend . The team needs more pitchers so they don’t overuse their pitchers.
RJM,
With all due respect you are way behind. The vast majority of top teams if not all of them operate this way, the ages act like a pyramid of talent condensing to the top few handfuls of teams on a national level. I don't have an opinion or care about right or wrong, it is just the way it is. There is no loyalty or training, just come swear by the colors if we think you are good enough.
Kid tosses great game somewhere VS a big boy and the next month shows up with them wearing the uniform.
Travel Baseball and by extension college baseball have been ugly nasty places covered up with smoke, mirrors and apple pie for years. it is just the way it is.
I’m way behind what? It didn’t happen to us. But if I paid $5,000 because an academy told my son they could get him to college ball, then put him on the bench to play other players free there would be lawyers involved. Given it would be a year of maybe two years of opportunity to draw college attention the money involved would be more than reimbursement. It would include damages.
The reason it didn’t happen to us is I researched which academies screw their paying players. My son’s team only brought in extra players (pitchers) for longer tournaments.
Adding paying players is a different story. But you don’t have players financially supporting the team at 5K per player and sitting while others play free.
Travel and college are nowhere near the same. Colleges don’t promise to get kids to the next level.
I deleted a few of the more pointedly personal comments here, and I am closing this thread.
Over the years we have had plenty of threads from people with axes to grind against PG. I see nothing new being contributed in this one.
Scorekeeper competence is a topic PG Staff has acknowledged as a continuous challenge. More than once, he invited HSBaseballWeb members to let him know of specific obvious errors, and he followed up to correct them.
I've been to PG tournaments as a dad and an umpire, and they are across-the-board the best managed and organized tournaments I've been to. I don't fault them for responding to demand by increasing tournament fields and adding layers of more elite tournaments and events as the WWBA events grew so big. I remember when people used to beat them up for not allowing enough teams into the WWBA.
Most of the problems with travel baseball are parent driven. Travel organizations, baseball academies, showcase operators and tournament organizers are simply responding to an insatiable consumer demand. PG is at the top end of the industry in competence and integrity.
Because I have a high regard for PG in general and an even higher regard for Jerry personally, I don't like to see our forums used to beat up on PG.