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I was wondering if anyone knows of a video or a place on the web with clips of left handed pitcher's pickoff moves. Steve Carlton, Terry Mullholland, Andy Pettit, etc - guys with "nasty" moves to first base.
" There's nothing cooler than a guy who does what we dream of doing, and then enjoys it as much as we dream we would enjoy it. " -- Scott Ostler on Tim Lincecum
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Just a followup - the book arrived earlier this week and I highly recommend it...

It is written for Left Handed pitchers throwing to first - or righties throwing to third.

Contains numerous pictures as well as drills to teach the player how to make a proper move to first. Pictures make it look extremely deceptive - looking forward to seeing how it works for real...
quote:
Originally posted by Ryno23:
The book "The Move" by Mike Maack (spelling?) is awesome. I know you said video, and I am not sure if he produces a video with it yet, but the book explains the move clearly and provides drills to reinforce the basic moves.


I actually learned my move through Mike Maack. In fact he has used the video of me when he has done a presentation on The Move. If you would like me post a video of it let me know.
I coached a kid 2 years ago as a Senior in McKinney, TX that learned his move from Mike. He had the best move I had ever seen and still to this day, have not seen one better. There was no way to steal off of him. The book is supposed to be phenomenal, but I haven't read it, so I can't guarantee. I can only say that when my lefty was on the mound, the ground game was done.

He actually picked 3 kids off that summer while they were taking their secondary and they were tagged out while looking at home plate for the pitch.
It's not a balk. I know very well the 45* rule, and so does Mike Maack (he videoed this). I'm stepping right inside the 45* line, which I mark on the ground before everytime I practice. Then I check the footprints afterwards to make sure it's a legal move.

What may be throwing you off is that my feet are staggered when I come set. My lift foot's heel is inline with the toes of my back foot. This is so more of my stride is going towards home, but still inside the 45* line.
I think a real key to that move is the arm action. And the shoulders.

The knee doesn't cross the plane of the rubber which is necessary. You step to the 45 line. All very well done.

But, deception is further than that. It's in the arm and shoulders. In fact, I'm guessing you can't do this and throw hard to first base. Everything is committed to forward down the 45 line. Your weight is moving forward down the 45 line.

So you go further by actually committing the body to throw down the 45 line..........but you don't. So, not much left on the throw to first. But, you don't need it because the deception is so strong.

Curious. You have to trust umpires. And, my experience is most won't call this a balk even if it is. However, how often are you called for a balk even though you don't? Do you show the move to the umpire before you use it? Pre-inning...pregame? To get his ok? The reason I ask is that in a two man umpiring crew, they have absolutely no angle to make this call. And, most won't make the call if "they don't see it". So, another question. Do you use that fact to your advantage and ever balk intentionally, taking a chance to nail a threatening runner.
Last edited by Infopimp
I find the angle of the video deceptive. When I look at it closely he appears to be lined up at a 45 angle to home plate so it looks like he is balking.Lead hip is pointed toward 1stb.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I find the angle of the video deceptive. When I look at it closely he appears to be lined up at a 45 angle to home plate so it looks like he is balking.Lead hip is pointed toward 1stb.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.


If you're saying that is a negative, I disagree. A runner taking one step and leaning to second base is in big trouble even with the soft throw. Especially if he's moved his eyes.

I will give you this.....I've seen runners just go as fast as they can to second base and beat the throw from first. The slow move by the pitcher would be a big part of this.

I have a feeling he picks off as many non-basestealers as basestealers. Kids who simply take their secondary too soon.
Last edited by Infopimp
If you lineup like he appears to do he has trouble generating power to HP as well as his pickoff move.
If you are taking 1 or2 primary steps leadoff you are wasting a throw to 1st. Let the runner try to steal. 3 steps is a whole different ball game.
When you are at balance position it is easy to change directions of your move. Once you start forward to the plate you are commited. If the runner is still only taking 1 or 2 primary leadoff steps I am probably going hard to the plate unless I send a B move warning shot.
Son has picked off 6 runners in 7 innings. Umps have called it unfair but legal. He has picked off 1 in 4 innings at college in 2 attempts.
To me a PO is whne you nail the runner who is not breaking for 2nd base. They both are POs but just not as sweet.
quote:
Originally posted by Infopimp: Curious. You have to trust umpires. And, my experience is most won't call this a balk even if it is. However, how often are you called for a balk even though you don't? Do you show the move to the umpire before you use it? Pre-inning...pregame? To get his ok? The reason I ask is that in a two man umpiring crew, they have absolutely no angle to make this call. And, most won't make the call if "they don't see it".


I’ve haven’t been called for a balk yet, but I’m sure it’ll happen sometime, whether I balk or not. Most of the time I just get angry dads yelling from the stands.

About showing the umpire beforehand, I don’t, but I haven’t really thought about it. I’m not sure I’d want to give any chance to the other team of picking up my move before the game even starts. Plus, in my opinion, any interaction between my team and the umpire should be through my coach. If my coach wants to tell the umpire beforehand that I have deceptive move, I think that would be better than a player telling him.

quote:
Originally posted by Infopimp: So, another question. Do you use that fact to your advantage and ever balk intentionally, taking a chance to nail a threatening runner.[/ QUOTE]

I haven’t yet, but it’s still early in the season.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I find the angle of the video deceptive. When I look at it closely he appears to be lined up at a 45 angle to home plate so it looks like he is balking.Lead hip is pointed toward 1stb.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.


The angle of the video is from the runner’s perspective (9 or 10 feet from the bag).

I’m not sure I get what you’re saying when you say I’m “lined up at a 45 degree angle”. My feet are staggered, but the rest of my body is pointed home (pointed in the same direction as a line drawn from home to second).

And yes you’re right; my arm doesn’t have much force behind it. It’s very hard to keep your shoulders pointed to home (which is imperative for a pickoff move) and still make a strong throw to first. But I’d rather make a soft throw and catch a runner already taking his secondary than try to make a strong throw and sacrifice deception.

quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
If you lineup like he appears to do he has trouble generating power to HP as well as his pickoff move.


Keep in mind that this video was taken on Dec 16, well before I was throwing full speed, and, that this is still a work in progress. But I’ll be glad to consider any tips you have if you would mind explaining yourself a little bit better.
Jreeder when I video a pickoff I like to be in the direction the ball is thrown at. It appears that 1st base is offto my left. It appears your hips are aimed (front Side towards 1st. Again the video is hard to get a good perspective.
when you are at the top of your lift theknee should wrap back a bit bringing foot to same plane as leg on rubber. That allows you to step towards 1st with more power. To be really deceptive at a high level you don't need a bullet as a LHP for the PO. You do have to have some steam behind it. That will come but I think you could get more pop if you did the above. You are throwing with your arm and little behind it. All young pitchers are a work in progress.
Yes the parents do get upset but thats a good thing.
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Jreeder when I video a pickoff I like to be in the direction the ball is thrown at.


Why. Makes more sense to video from the runners perspective. He's the one that has to read it.

quote:
when you are at the top of your lift theknee should wrap back a bit bringing foot to same plane as leg on rubber.


Who says? You?

quote:
That allows you to step towards 1st with more power. To be really deceptive at a high level you don't need a bullet as a LHP for the PO. You do have to have some steam behind it.


Garbage. The deception factor plays a much bigger role than the velocity.

Have you ever been on base?

Have you ever coached from the first base box?

That move down the 45 line, leg, weight and all moving down that line is where his success comes from. Not, stepping toward first. Stepping toward first ruins the deception.

Looked at the video again. Do you throw without looking? That is very deceptive also. Or do you have the Andy Pettitte hat thing going on with your head pointed home but your eyes at first?

Very good looking move.
Last edited by Infopimp
You are right it will tell you if he is deceptive but not neceswsarily his mechanics. The ball is being thrown to 1st and you can get a better look at mechanics in my opinion.
Son learned to throw without looking at 1st. Taught to know where 1st is by feel. One pitching coach had him pitch blindfolded in winter classes.
My son looks at home plate as he stepds towards 1st on the 45 angle and he throws with pop to 1st. If you can pick 6 guys off in 7 innings at a high level you are doing it right. Once you get 1 or2 they are ready for you.
This young pitcher can evaluate what is said here and pick what he likes. He acknowleges that he needs some pop on his throw and I told him my suggestion on how to get it. I have seen many different LHPs with all kinds od deceptive moves and they all have developed some pop.
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My son looks at home plate as he stepds towards 1st on the 45 angle and he throws with pop to 1st.


Only if you turn your shoulders, costing you some deception.

Probably good to be able to do it several ways. As runners get used to one, try the other.

But, IMHO, the most effective is full deception.

The "defense" against the move, with non base stealing runners is to tell them "don't take your eyes off the pitcher until the ball is released." However, many hear it yet take their eyes off before release. And, this move down the 45 line with leg, weight, shoulders is super deceptive and will cause the runner to fail his instructions.
Last edited by Infopimp
Here's the boy last summer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTp93cb6wY

He's playing JV ball in Tx this year. Went 4-0 with a 1.76 ERA. Alright, enough of that........

Last summer against the Va Diamonds 16U, he had three pickoffs in 2.7 innings of relief. This spring, he has improved his move to first. He picked 7 guys this year. One kid, twice in the same game. His new HS coach (also was a LHP) has worked on his "moves" to make them unpredictable. I've noticed that the more kids he picks-off, the more agitated the coaches, players, and fans get. Thus, giving his team a mental advantage.

Oh yeah, that kid in the video ended-up hitting a BOMB to left field in the next inning.
Last edited by 13LHPdad

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