I was wondering if anyone knows of a video or a place on the web with clips of left handed pitcher's pickoff moves. Steve Carlton, Terry Mullholland, Andy Pettit, etc - guys with "nasty" moves to first base.
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The book "The Move" by Mike Maack (spelling?) is awesome. I know you said video, and I am not sure if he produces a video with it yet, but the book explains the move clearly and provides drills to reinforce the basic moves.
Awesome - thanks...
Just a followup - the book arrived earlier this week and I highly recommend it...
It is written for Left Handed pitchers throwing to first - or righties throwing to third.
Contains numerous pictures as well as drills to teach the player how to make a proper move to first. Pictures make it look extremely deceptive - looking forward to seeing how it works for real...
It is written for Left Handed pitchers throwing to first - or righties throwing to third.
Contains numerous pictures as well as drills to teach the player how to make a proper move to first. Pictures make it look extremely deceptive - looking forward to seeing how it works for real...
quote:Originally posted by Ryno23:
The book "The Move" by Mike Maack (spelling?) is awesome. I know you said video, and I am not sure if he produces a video with it yet, but the book explains the move clearly and provides drills to reinforce the basic moves.
I actually learned my move through Mike Maack. In fact he has used the video of me when he has done a presentation on The Move. If you would like me post a video of it let me know.
Yes. Please post it.
I'm with info, please post it.
same here would love to see that video.
Yes, my son is a 15 yr old lefty and your video would be a great tool for him.
Sherman
Sherman
Love to see the video... my son is also a 15YO lefty and while he is working on the move, seeing video would be a useful input...
I coached a kid 2 years ago as a Senior in McKinney, TX that learned his move from Mike. He had the best move I had ever seen and still to this day, have not seen one better. There was no way to steal off of him. The book is supposed to be phenomenal, but I haven't read it, so I can't guarantee. I can only say that when my lefty was on the mound, the ground game was done.
He actually picked 3 kids off that summer while they were taking their secondary and they were tagged out while looking at home plate for the pitch.
He actually picked 3 kids off that summer while they were taking their secondary and they were tagged out while looking at home plate for the pitch.
Video.
Sorry about the quality, I'm not really a guru on converting and editing movies.
Anyways, this is my move after 4 sessions with Maack back in December. It's the most recent video I have.
Sorry about the quality, I'm not really a guru on converting and editing movies.
Anyways, this is my move after 4 sessions with Maack back in December. It's the most recent video I have.
Thanks for posting this - much appreciated...
It is hard to see but it appears to be a balk. The lift leg has to go at a 45degree angle from the rubber. Again I am having a hard time judging the angle but it appears to be a balk.
Your stride leg appears to be at too great an angle closer to 75degrees.
Your stride leg appears to be at too great an angle closer to 75degrees.
I looked at it in full mode and you are definitely balking. Your foot plant on PO is only about 15 inches away from your plant going to the plate. When you lft leg is at full lift your hips should rotate slightly to allow you drop foot to go directly towards 1st. 45 degrees othyerwise it is a balk.
It's not a balk. I know very well the 45* rule, and so does Mike Maack (he videoed this). I'm stepping right inside the 45* line, which I mark on the ground before everytime I practice. Then I check the footprints afterwards to make sure it's a legal move.
What may be throwing you off is that my feet are staggered when I come set. My lift foot's heel is inline with the toes of my back foot. This is so more of my stride is going towards home, but still inside the 45* line.
What may be throwing you off is that my feet are staggered when I come set. My lift foot's heel is inline with the toes of my back foot. This is so more of my stride is going towards home, but still inside the 45* line.
Yes it could be the way you settup on the rubber that gives the illusion.
I think a real key to that move is the arm action. And the shoulders.
The knee doesn't cross the plane of the rubber which is necessary. You step to the 45 line. All very well done.
But, deception is further than that. It's in the arm and shoulders. In fact, I'm guessing you can't do this and throw hard to first base. Everything is committed to forward down the 45 line. Your weight is moving forward down the 45 line.
So you go further by actually committing the body to throw down the 45 line..........but you don't. So, not much left on the throw to first. But, you don't need it because the deception is so strong.
Curious. You have to trust umpires. And, my experience is most won't call this a balk even if it is. However, how often are you called for a balk even though you don't? Do you show the move to the umpire before you use it? Pre-inning...pregame? To get his ok? The reason I ask is that in a two man umpiring crew, they have absolutely no angle to make this call. And, most won't make the call if "they don't see it". So, another question. Do you use that fact to your advantage and ever balk intentionally, taking a chance to nail a threatening runner.
The knee doesn't cross the plane of the rubber which is necessary. You step to the 45 line. All very well done.
But, deception is further than that. It's in the arm and shoulders. In fact, I'm guessing you can't do this and throw hard to first base. Everything is committed to forward down the 45 line. Your weight is moving forward down the 45 line.
So you go further by actually committing the body to throw down the 45 line..........but you don't. So, not much left on the throw to first. But, you don't need it because the deception is so strong.
Curious. You have to trust umpires. And, my experience is most won't call this a balk even if it is. However, how often are you called for a balk even though you don't? Do you show the move to the umpire before you use it? Pre-inning...pregame? To get his ok? The reason I ask is that in a two man umpiring crew, they have absolutely no angle to make this call. And, most won't make the call if "they don't see it". So, another question. Do you use that fact to your advantage and ever balk intentionally, taking a chance to nail a threatening runner.
I find the angle of the video deceptive. When I look at it closely he appears to be lined up at a 45 angle to home plate so it looks like he is balking.Lead hip is pointed toward 1stb.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I find the angle of the video deceptive. When I look at it closely he appears to be lined up at a 45 angle to home plate so it looks like he is balking.Lead hip is pointed toward 1stb.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.
If you're saying that is a negative, I disagree. A runner taking one step and leaning to second base is in big trouble even with the soft throw. Especially if he's moved his eyes.
I will give you this.....I've seen runners just go as fast as they can to second base and beat the throw from first. The slow move by the pitcher would be a big part of this.
I have a feeling he picks off as many non-basestealers as basestealers. Kids who simply take their secondary too soon.
If you lineup like he appears to do he has trouble generating power to HP as well as his pickoff move.
If you are taking 1 or2 primary steps leadoff you are wasting a throw to 1st. Let the runner try to steal. 3 steps is a whole different ball game.
When you are at balance position it is easy to change directions of your move. Once you start forward to the plate you are commited. If the runner is still only taking 1 or 2 primary leadoff steps I am probably going hard to the plate unless I send a B move warning shot.
Son has picked off 6 runners in 7 innings. Umps have called it unfair but legal. He has picked off 1 in 4 innings at college in 2 attempts.
To me a PO is whne you nail the runner who is not breaking for 2nd base. They both are POs but just not as sweet.
If you are taking 1 or2 primary steps leadoff you are wasting a throw to 1st. Let the runner try to steal. 3 steps is a whole different ball game.
When you are at balance position it is easy to change directions of your move. Once you start forward to the plate you are commited. If the runner is still only taking 1 or 2 primary leadoff steps I am probably going hard to the plate unless I send a B move warning shot.
Son has picked off 6 runners in 7 innings. Umps have called it unfair but legal. He has picked off 1 in 4 innings at college in 2 attempts.
To me a PO is whne you nail the runner who is not breaking for 2nd base. They both are POs but just not as sweet.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
If you lineup like he appears to do he has trouble generating power to HP as well as his pickoff move.
That's quite an assumption from behind a keyboard and monitor.
quote:Originally posted by Infopimp: Curious. You have to trust umpires. And, my experience is most won't call this a balk even if it is. However, how often are you called for a balk even though you don't? Do you show the move to the umpire before you use it? Pre-inning...pregame? To get his ok? The reason I ask is that in a two man umpiring crew, they have absolutely no angle to make this call. And, most won't make the call if "they don't see it".
I’ve haven’t been called for a balk yet, but I’m sure it’ll happen sometime, whether I balk or not. Most of the time I just get angry dads yelling from the stands.
About showing the umpire beforehand, I don’t, but I haven’t really thought about it. I’m not sure I’d want to give any chance to the other team of picking up my move before the game even starts. Plus, in my opinion, any interaction between my team and the umpire should be through my coach. If my coach wants to tell the umpire beforehand that I have deceptive move, I think that would be better than a player telling him.
quote:Originally posted by Infopimp: So, another question. Do you use that fact to your advantage and ever balk intentionally, taking a chance to nail a threatening runner.[/ QUOTE]
I haven’t yet, but it’s still early in the season.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I find the angle of the video deceptive. When I look at it closely he appears to be lined up at a 45 angle to home plate so it looks like he is balking.Lead hip is pointed toward 1stb.
I think his knee should be closed a lot more at full lift to allow more power to be generated. I also felt he commited everything down the line. ie weight forward too soon rather than holding a balance position a little longer. Arm dosen't have any force behind it.
The angle of the video is from the runner’s perspective (9 or 10 feet from the bag).
I’m not sure I get what you’re saying when you say I’m “lined up at a 45 degree angle”. My feet are staggered, but the rest of my body is pointed home (pointed in the same direction as a line drawn from home to second).
And yes you’re right; my arm doesn’t have much force behind it. It’s very hard to keep your shoulders pointed to home (which is imperative for a pickoff move) and still make a strong throw to first. But I’d rather make a soft throw and catch a runner already taking his secondary than try to make a strong throw and sacrifice deception.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
If you lineup like he appears to do he has trouble generating power to HP as well as his pickoff move.
Keep in mind that this video was taken on Dec 16, well before I was throwing full speed, and, that this is still a work in progress. But I’ll be glad to consider any tips you have if you would mind explaining yourself a little bit better.
jreeder,
Do you have a clip that shows you going to the plate?
Do you have a clip that shows you going to the plate?
Jreeder when I video a pickoff I like to be in the direction the ball is thrown at. It appears that 1st base is offto my left. It appears your hips are aimed (front Side towards 1st. Again the video is hard to get a good perspective.
when you are at the top of your lift theknee should wrap back a bit bringing foot to same plane as leg on rubber. That allows you to step towards 1st with more power. To be really deceptive at a high level you don't need a bullet as a LHP for the PO. You do have to have some steam behind it. That will come but I think you could get more pop if you did the above. You are throwing with your arm and little behind it. All young pitchers are a work in progress.
Yes the parents do get upset but thats a good thing.
when you are at the top of your lift theknee should wrap back a bit bringing foot to same plane as leg on rubber. That allows you to step towards 1st with more power. To be really deceptive at a high level you don't need a bullet as a LHP for the PO. You do have to have some steam behind it. That will come but I think you could get more pop if you did the above. You are throwing with your arm and little behind it. All young pitchers are a work in progress.
Yes the parents do get upset but thats a good thing.
PG his 3rd throw is to the plate.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Jreeder when I video a pickoff I like to be in the direction the ball is thrown at.
Why. Makes more sense to video from the runners perspective. He's the one that has to read it.
quote:when you are at the top of your lift theknee should wrap back a bit bringing foot to same plane as leg on rubber.
Who says? You?
quote:That allows you to step towards 1st with more power. To be really deceptive at a high level you don't need a bullet as a LHP for the PO. You do have to have some steam behind it.
Garbage. The deception factor plays a much bigger role than the velocity.
Have you ever been on base?
Have you ever coached from the first base box?
That move down the 45 line, leg, weight and all moving down that line is where his success comes from. Not, stepping toward first. Stepping toward first ruins the deception.
Looked at the video again. Do you throw without looking? That is very deceptive also. Or do you have the Andy Pettitte hat thing going on with your head pointed home but your eyes at first?
Very good looking move.
You are right it will tell you if he is deceptive but not neceswsarily his mechanics. The ball is being thrown to 1st and you can get a better look at mechanics in my opinion.
Son learned to throw without looking at 1st. Taught to know where 1st is by feel. One pitching coach had him pitch blindfolded in winter classes.
My son looks at home plate as he stepds towards 1st on the 45 angle and he throws with pop to 1st. If you can pick 6 guys off in 7 innings at a high level you are doing it right. Once you get 1 or2 they are ready for you.
This young pitcher can evaluate what is said here and pick what he likes. He acknowleges that he needs some pop on his throw and I told him my suggestion on how to get it. I have seen many different LHPs with all kinds od deceptive moves and they all have developed some pop.
Son learned to throw without looking at 1st. Taught to know where 1st is by feel. One pitching coach had him pitch blindfolded in winter classes.
My son looks at home plate as he stepds towards 1st on the 45 angle and he throws with pop to 1st. If you can pick 6 guys off in 7 innings at a high level you are doing it right. Once you get 1 or2 they are ready for you.
This young pitcher can evaluate what is said here and pick what he likes. He acknowleges that he needs some pop on his throw and I told him my suggestion on how to get it. I have seen many different LHPs with all kinds od deceptive moves and they all have developed some pop.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My son looks at home plate as he stepds towards 1st on the 45 angle and he throws with pop to 1st.
Only if you turn your shoulders, costing you some deception.
Probably good to be able to do it several ways. As runners get used to one, try the other.
But, IMHO, the most effective is full deception.
The "defense" against the move, with non base stealing runners is to tell them "don't take your eyes off the pitcher until the ball is released." However, many hear it yet take their eyes off before release. And, this move down the 45 line with leg, weight, shoulders is super deceptive and will cause the runner to fail his instructions.
I am a 14 year old LHP and pick a runner off base nearly every game. My pitching instructor introduced the 45* rule to me, but pickoff moves are instinct more than anything. The thing that works on runners the most, is the head fakes. Always mix up your head movements.
Hope this brings about ideas and more interaction.
Coach Maack's book is a good one.
Enjoy.
Watch out for the ethics police. They hammered this
in the other rooms of this site.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player
Coach Maack's book is a good one.
Enjoy.
Watch out for the ethics police. They hammered this
in the other rooms of this site. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...youtube_gdata_player
Here's the boy last summer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTp93cb6wY
He's playing JV ball in Tx this year. Went 4-0 with a 1.76 ERA. Alright, enough of that........
Last summer against the Va Diamonds 16U, he had three pickoffs in 2.7 innings of relief. This spring, he has improved his move to first. He picked 7 guys this year. One kid, twice in the same game. His new HS coach (also was a LHP) has worked on his "moves" to make them unpredictable. I've noticed that the more kids he picks-off, the more agitated the coaches, players, and fans get. Thus, giving his team a mental advantage.
Oh yeah, that kid in the video ended-up hitting a BOMB to left field in the next inning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTp93cb6wY
He's playing JV ball in Tx this year. Went 4-0 with a 1.76 ERA. Alright, enough of that........
Last summer against the Va Diamonds 16U, he had three pickoffs in 2.7 innings of relief. This spring, he has improved his move to first. He picked 7 guys this year. One kid, twice in the same game. His new HS coach (also was a LHP) has worked on his "moves" to make them unpredictable. I've noticed that the more kids he picks-off, the more agitated the coaches, players, and fans get. Thus, giving his team a mental advantage.
Oh yeah, that kid in the video ended-up hitting a BOMB to left field in the next inning.
Disc 2 in this DVD series has about a ten minute segment on pickoff moves.
Jr picked a runner this past weekend to start the summer off. Threw his first CG in a 3-1 win with zero stolen bases to 2nd! Including spring, he's 5-0.
A good pickoff slows a fast team.
A good pickoff slows a fast team.
