Pie Throwing

Teach him to throw from the power position and stay on top of the ball. If he is RHP at the start of the power position his wrist should be turned to show thye ball to 3rd base and stay on top when he rotates forward. You should get a goog book to illustrate thsi. Buy or go to the library. I suggest "Everything You Need To Know About Pitching" Louisville Slugger.

You could try standing directly behind him with your hand at about the level of his throwing arm hand when is hanging straight down. Have him grasp the ball with his hand right on top and try to sync him so he can take the ball from your hand and step n throw all in one motion, no stopping. Ive used this many many younger kids with pretty good results esppecially if you can get them synced right.

Tell him to break his hands with his elbows.

Nearly every pitcher I've seen that could be described a "pie thrower" takes the ball out of his glove incorrectly. When the hands break the throwing hand is not on top of the ball. This has a tendency to spoil everything that comes later. And at every position, not just pitching.

The hand needs to be on top of the ball at hand break or the transfer. Perhaps this is what "infopimp" is referring to? Most players do this naturally, but not all!

If your son has been I pie thrower for a long time, it may be more dangerous to try and change his backstroke then to work with what you have...Jack Morris was a pie thrower, and he worked out OK. Pie throwers usually end up throwing a splits and changeups for thier off speed pitch. If your looking for a way to never hurt your arm, I truthfully recommend another sport. All the advancments in mechanics have been very misleading. Their are far more injuries today then thier were 20 and 30 and 40 years ago, and thats with all the "advancments" in mechanics. Good luck with you and your son. peace

Break with the elbows and the thumbs down. Be as symmetrical as possible with the elbows with the ball being held in the hand and along for the ride. Pie throwers want to lift the ball...lift the elbows and hold the ball is a better cue.

Does he catapult or push the ball? It would be interesting to see.

Also, I think the reasons that there are more arm injuries today are not associated with advancements in mechanics as much as a change in lifestyle of kids compared to 30 yrs ago. Of course there are crazy people spouting stuff out there but my bet is that there are lots less catch being played by Dads and brothers than in the "old" days.

I have exorcised Pie throwing out of my kid and learned a lot about arm action in the process.

Good luck

This is a very common problem with young players. It is usually manifested as PGStaff said, at the beginning of the load. The player usually turns the ball upside down on their way back and get under the ball. The wrist usually lays back and then you have a pie thrower.

Their are many ways to fix the problem. The ones above are all good ones. You may also try what we call "end-game". This is a drill where the player starts at release with body and arm positioned as if releasing the ball (Hand on top of the ball). You will then load back to your center arm and glove out (as if landing in your normal motion) and then throw the ball keeping the rear foot against the rubber. The player should finish in the same position he/she started in. This causes them to be aware of how their body should unlock and how to keep their hand on top.

Another way is to stand straight up; feet set pointed at target. Pull the elbow back as if drawing back a bow-and-arrow keeping the elbow high. As they throw, the player will reach out to the target as far as they can and attempt to throw the ball below the belt of their partner; keeping the feet set, back will become flat parrallel to the ground. This again will force the hand on top of the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by DeeMack:
If your son has been I pie thrower for a long time, it may be more dangerous to try and change his backstroke then to work with what you have...Jack Morris was a pie thrower, and he worked out OK. Pie throwers usually end up throwing a splits and changeups for thier off speed pitch. If your looking for a way to never hurt your arm, I truthfully recommend another sport. All the advancments in mechanics have been very misleading. Their are far more injuries today then thier were 20 and 30 and 40 years ago, and thats with all the "advancments" in mechanics. Good luck with you and your son. peace

I do agree with you that injuries are up, but with all the research and studies that have been done on throwing and throwing habits, I would have to agree with razor on the lack of throwing causing more of the problems. If you remember, back in the day, there was no such thing as a "closer" and everyone worked on three days rest more than 5 like today. Kids today don't go out and play catch like we used to do. They don't train the ligaments and tendons in their arms to handle the stress of throwing, so more injuries do occur.

I would agree that with more mechanical advances that come about, it could possibly hurt players, but only because once a kid changes an arm slot, load, or postural change, they don't have the time needed to strengthen the new muscles and tendons that are now being used. Think about it...how many kids now are playing baseball 10 months out of the year? I know in Texas, there are a ton of kids that do that. If you are going to change something mechanically, you need to have time to build up the strength and endurance to handle it. I would not ever discourage a player from changing a mechanical flaw if they are in danger of hurting their arm. I would balk on the timing of it if I were to be asked to fix him during a season.

I am glad you brought up the point of mechanics Dee. Maybe that needs to be a new thread...How or when to change a mechanical flaw...if ever?

We break a lot of stuff down including the pitching motion. Give this a try. Have him stand as if in the stretch. Pretend he has already made his stride and his foot has landed. Then, have him point his lead elbow at the target and have his throwing arm in a 90 degree straight with the the arm from arm pit to elbow running parallel to the ground. Now, have some type of obstacle to throw over. We use a pitching L-Screen but prop it up higher to raise the bar the pitcher has to throw over. Stand behind your son and toss a ball to his hand. Have him catch that ball and then try to throw over that obstacle. I hope I've understood your problem and that this helps.

Is ther any proof that pie throwing is bad for your arm? Im not endorsing it, but just because it is not pleasing to the eye doesnt mean its a flaw. I know scouts are not big on "pie throwers," but what if someone is having a great deal of success throwing this way. Who determines what a "flaw" is? There was a pitcher here a few years ago named Alex who threw 88-90 with a great deal of funk. he had a very quick arm pump, a quick and quirky leg kick, and a awkward arm action...And he ran right through everyone. The hitters I talked to said he was nasty. After the gurus got ahold of him he looked pretty as a picture and threw 84 and couldnt get anyone out. Im not an endorser of pie throwing, but I love to see pitchers have different looks and arm slots. The hitters are not comfortable with it.

I agree kids dont throw as much as they used to, but the mechanics being taught have discouraged freedom and power in the pitchers deliveries. Arms no longer swing freely, full windups are no longer taught, slide steps are taught as if vince coleman were always on base, and walks and arm injuries are way to high. I have a tough time telling if new pitchers are brought into games because every delivery looks the same. Flaws, or style? peace

DeeMac,

Excellent stuff!

Won’t mention names, but once watched a certain juco team play a four game series. The coach of that team was a well known pitching instructor.

Each pitcher on that team that I saw over three days, looked exactly like the guy he was replacing. Different size, different velocity, different ability, but exact same delivery and mechanics. Can you say (Cookie Cutter)?

Yes, it’s pleasing to watch the fluid delivery of some, but one only has to watch enough games to realize the advantage of different arm angles, different angles to the plate (cross body), different timing and yes even different mechanics to an extent.

If there was only one way to be effective, hitters get into BP mode. To be honest I think there is a lot of that going on now days. It seems that the natural part is being taken over by the scientific part. Some of this can be good, but I think some of it is actually causing injuries. Pitchers simply are not all the same.

There have been those with nearly perfect mechanics who get cut on and there are those with bad mechanics who get cut on. Also, size of the pitcher being a factor is slowly turning into an “old wives tale”. Big and small are both being cut on and many of the small are outlasting many of the big. It's right there in front of our eyes. Don't know how long before someone notices.

Bottom line… The study is not yet complete… The scientist’s need to keep working! The doctors seem to forget one small detail in their information. They concentrate on the health of the arm (rightfully so), but often disregard the fact a pitcher needs to get hitters out. There are a million former high school pitchers who no longer pitch, but they have healthy arms!

Deception is not an “Iron Mike”. Thanks for the reminder!

MoDad,
I have had very good success with the following drill for kids that have trouble getting on top of the ball. But, first make sure, as others have pointed out, he is taking the ball out of the glove correctly. Stand just behind the back side of the mound. Have a throw down plate about 8 ft. in front of the actually plate. Have your son stride onto the upslope of the mound and try to bounce the ball off of the first plate. The only way this can be done is to get the hand on top and to gain a downward angle on the pitch. Many kids have trouble with this at first, but, those with strong mechanics do it very well. Good luck and I hope this helps.

Thanks for all of the great advice - I plan on trying some of your suggestions soon.

I wanted to post an update on my son's progress since implementing some of the recommendations from some of the contributors on this site. Several of you recommended taking a look at my son's "hands break" - well, it appears that you were right on the mark. After just a little attention to ensuring that the ball is taken out the glove with fingers on top and thumb down (or towards thigh) during the hands break, my son is now consistently staying on top of the ball at release. It has made a tremendous difference in his delivery and velocity. I am very appreciative to everyone here for their advice. Thank you very much and best wishes for a fantastic season.