Pitching Inside

$325 for a product to help with pitching inside......not sure if it's worth it.

Maybe I can pick up the one used by the "Cleveland Indians" in the movie Major League.


(Gotwood maybe you can help with a pic - I have looked but can't find one. I am but a lowly student in your world of picture humor)

quote:

Originally posted by Sosa58:
Coaches:

I saw a new training tooling called the Designated Hitter for baseball pitchers.. It helps coaches teach baseball pitchers how to pitch inside and get better control of their pitches in general.

Several big name colleges use it like UNC and Rice. Even some pro teams use it too. It was also named this year's Best In Show Pitching Aid at the 2007 American Baseball Coaches convention. The testimonials are impressive.

Perhaps one not so obvious advantage that I see from using this tool is that pitchers can now practice pitching with a batter in the box all the time without risking or taking practice time away from another player.

I'm interested in your thoughts on this product...

just hire the neighboor kid for a dollar a bullpen

TG, I liked your advice--that's the same thing I've taught my son since about 9 years old: "If the batter gets HBP it's the batter's fault--he had enough time to get out of the way, but chose not to".

On the other hand, that DH-Hitter thing looks kind of cool for practice work but I wouldn't spend $300 for it--I can draw a little, I own a sabre-saw, and I think I'll go shopping for some 3/4" plywood. I don't really care if mine is not made of "space-age plastic"--prehistoric wood is good enough for us.

Sosa,
You are selling this product? I noticed that you have posted 3 times and all posts lead to the DH.

Appears like you have given laflipin a good idea.

I think you have a good concept, but live batters are much more inexpensive.

quote:

Originally posted by TG:
My son was taught how to pitch inside at no cost. When he started pitching at 9U I told him not to worry about hitting batters. I told him if he hurt a hitter that's the hitter's problem. My son has never had a problem pitching inside. In a wood bat tournament this weekend he (fifteen now) walked off the mound smiling after sawing off/breaking a fourth hitter's bat, "Just call me Black and Decker." I also taught him how to come up and in and hit a batter without getting him in the head.

That whole thing sounds pretty insane to me.

And very dangerous as well.

As your son rises to the next level - I would recommend a
change in approach - or a suit of armor.

Sounds like him - and/or his teammates - are going to need one.

Wow! Pretty impressive indeed. Learning to come up and in and hit people without hitting them in the head is an art. That is very impressive and Im sure something that every kid needs to learn. Wow!

quote:

Originally posted by TG:
When he started pitching at 9U I told him not to worry about hitting batters. I told him if he hurt a hitter that's the hitter's problem. I also taught him how to come up and in and hit a batter without getting him in the head.

WOW!!

I say wow to that too, takes pitchers years to learn how to pitch inside.

For young pitchers who pitch inside against wood, it is much easier and most good pitchers have no fear of hitting the batter. The fear comes when you pitch inside and make a mistake, in college with aluminum, it's usually out of the park, that's why many college pitchers (even the best) won't rely on the inside pitch in the college game. Young pitchers who pitch inside and rely on it, will most likely not in the college game after the first few HR's against them.

TG all young pitches start out worrying about plunking a batter. They are all tought that it is a part of BB. You are going to hit batters and if you want to pitch you have to ungerstand that.
I am somewhat puzzled at the saw bats off comment. Does he throw so hard that he breaks bats. If that were the case what about all the guys who throw a lot harder. They would saw off bats everytime they throw and then you have the batters who think they swung so hard they broke the bat ?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I am somewhat puzzled at the saw bats off comment. Does he throw so hard that he breaks bats. If that were the case what about all the guys who throw a lot harder. They would saw off bats everytime they throw and then you have the batters who think they swung so hard they broke the bat ?

BHD,
I was glad you brought this up, mine throws 90's, did in HS, pitches inside and broken wooden bats have comes far and few between.
About the Black and Decker comment, if I ever heard that from mine he would be black and decker by the time he got home. Or was that comment from you TG? JMO.

TPM,

How does your son deal with the HB thing? It is obviously disturbing to hit someone with a pitch, and the natural reaction of the pitcher is regret and some level of empathy with the hit batsman. On the other hand, I think pitchers need to be able to compartmentalize their feelings of empathy--their emotional response to the HB--and be able to focus on making their next pitch.

Since your boy is obviously playing at a high level of baseball now, I wonder if you'd be willing to describe how he developed to that point on the mental/emotional side of pitching, if that makes sense.

My best guess is he is like most pitchers. Mad they gave up a freebie.

Those Bolo/Rockem-Sockem toys might be a cheap surrogate. It seems appropiate to point out fundamentals of avoiding/getting HBP: roll front shoulder back towards catcher, ducking head, and lower bat.

quote:

I also taught him how to come up and in and hit a batter without getting him in the head.

I actually find this sad as I see this as something TG is proud of........This one statement pretty much tells me everything I need to know........

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My best guess is he is like most pitchers. Mad they gave up a freebie.

Bingo! Hitting a batter could be the difference between a W or L.

Experienced hitters know how to get out of the way, but sometimes the 92-94 mph FB with movement trying to go inside gets away from ya, not intentionally.

And sometimes experienced hitters WILL get in the way on purpose. You'll find this often in the college game, trying anything to get on base. I remember first time son my plunked a batter, I read his stats later he had been plunked 19 times halfway through the season he had been struggling.

My son never hit a batter until college. In HS, most batters facing a pitcher with 90+ velocity are more afraid to get hit than the pitcher being afraid of hitting one. Never should a pitcher want to hit a batter coming inside on purpose, the object is to move them back off of the inside of the plate to make your job easier. It's part of the battle that goes on between hitter and pitcher as to who owns the strike zone.

This year I saw a first, hate to say, first time he went after the batter intentionally, trying to plunk him on the back, not the hands, he missed, sending the message. This player had been bad mouthing our team, in our house. He was unfortunetly the pitcher designated by his teammates to make the statement. Everyone knew it was intentional but the umpire let it go, because I think he also felt the batter's attitude needed some adjusting.

I agree pia, posts tell a lot about a person. Who teaches a young player to hit someone on purpose?

BTW, as a parent, I was livid that day, at son not at the batter.

Teaching a very young pitcher to pitch inside when he doesn't have the control (at 9) can do serious damage to the very young hitter who doesn't know how to get out of the way.

TPM,

Are you serious that your son never hit a batter before college? Please believe me, I'm not doubting your word here, it just seems incredible to me.

Over the past 5 years, LL to current his current Babe Ruth including regular seasons and Fall Ball, my son has hit perhaps 10 batters among the several hundred that he has pitched to over that amount of time. You only have my word for it, but I believe unequivocally that he has never thrown at a batter on purpose. Still, he does try to use all of the plate and over that 5 year period he has made some location mistakes, occasionally on the inside.

My son has never acted proud of hitting anyone, in fact quite the opposite, but it is of interest to me how more experienced pitchers deal with the stress of unintentional HBs.

Actually, it sounds like even more stress to be pressured by your teammates into making a retaliation pitch, although the rationale for it seems to be pretty well understood and accepted as a necessary evil by all in the pro game.

Just as an addendum, my son hasn't ever hit anyone in the head or chest area--his mistakes have landed on legs, butts, and a couple of times in the lower back (very painful, and distressing to witness).

After he got a fastball in the earhole (unintentionally, the pitcher was very remorseful) my boy started wearing a helmet with a cage to regain his confidence at the plate. Just last year, when one of my boy's teammates was hit in the face early in the season and really injured--out for 3 weeks and never really the same as a player when he came back-- my reaction was to try to get the LL to institute mandatory face guards on batting helmets. The local board "suggested" the face protection to everyone, but let it slide and never tried to make it mandatory.

For the 9 - 12 yo crowd mandatory face protection makes a lot of sense to me. I've heard credible baseball people opine that face protection ought to be mandatory at higher levels as well--mistakes do happen.

I don't remember one in HS at all, mainly because most hitters were afraid of him, same when he was younger he threw hard, they were afraid or it sounded like he was throwing hard. He may have plunked one or two when younger, but nothing that I remember actually. That's one of the reasons why he was able to learn to pitch inside the plate, most hitter stayed far back.

I may be mssing a plunk or two, but I cannot honestly remember him hitting anyone, even when he first started pitching, that was a long time ago (14-15 years). I do remember teh first time he plunked someone in college, husband and I turned to each other, both said, we've never seen that before.

This year he unfortunetly hit a batter in the head, suffering from tendinitous, he lost control of the ball. That was one of the reasons he was shut down, that's not his normal stuff. Most batters know that it is not intentional. After awhile the hitters learn about a pitcher, and learn to stay back if he has a habit of hitting pitchers. I do beleive that if a young pitcher hits batters on a continuos basis he maybe needs to be removed until he finds control or refines mechanics. Coming inside and hitting a batter is not uncommon but shouldn't be taught until he has mastered the other stuff. JMO.

I remember (my memory is not that bad) way back in when son was younger a pitcher threw a pitch right to the batters face (he didn't have good control), broken jaw and teeth missing. Those parents petitioned for the pitcher to be removed as he had hit too many before that. It was not done on purpose, and actually the coach should have been working with him or taken the ball away before that unfortunate incident occured. That poor kid never came back to baseball.

If a pitcher consistently works the inside, he is going to plunk some batters. Part of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
If a pitcher consistently works the inside, he is going to plunk some batters. Part of the game.

My son has hit his share of batters, none intentional. He's admitted that there were quite a few he would have loved to plunk, but didn't. I taught him early on that the inside of the plate was just as (if not more) important than the outside. I firmly believe that is why he has been successful throughout his career and even more so when pitching against wood bats.

BTW, Koufax was correct

My son has never been asked to hit a batter and in 2 seasons of college ball he has hit 2 each year. Usually a CB thrown at the batter that didn't break enough. He has certainly hit his fair share through the years. Nothing seriousbut a couple needed a moment to collect their thoughts. Non in the head.

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
If a pitcher consistently works the inside, he is going to plunk some batters. Part of the game.

I was curios I see that son plunked 8 in 3 years, and I do believe most of them were trying to get inside, and I remember two where the batter leaned into the pitch.
Texan is right, part of the game, especially trying to get inside, but not to be done intentionally.
And Frank is right, the plate has an inside and outside and if you are taught how to use it, you will find more success.

TG,
You do have a way of making comments that often need further explanation, not sure if you realize it or done on purpose.

I don't know where you live or play, but I have NEVER seen that in all the years my son has played baseball. Once in a while in the college game but never in any LL game or HS game. And if it did go on, we would have moved on to the next league. I also have never seen in one game, on the lower level, 4 broken bats in a game even with pitchers bringing on the heat.

If the Black and Decker comment is a team thing, it should have remained within the team. JMO.

quote:

This stuff goes back to the quality of the umpiring. Good umpires don't let it get out of hand. Good umpires warn or toss the initiator

Bull...

Umpires do not teach these behaviors....this goes back to the quality of the coaching or more directly the quality of the men who teach this behavior......and I dont mean their won/loss records.

Period.

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:

quote:

This stuff goes back to the quality of the umpiring. Good umpires don't let it get out of hand. Good umpires warn or toss the initiator

Bull...

Umpires do not teach these behaviors....this goes back to the quality of the coaching or more directly the quality of the men who teach this behavior......and I dont mean their won/loss records.

Period.

quote:

Originally posted by TG:
My son was taught how to pitch inside at no cost. When he started pitching at 9U I told him not to worry about hitting batters. I told him if he hurt a hitter that's the hitter's problem. My son has never had a problem pitching inside. In a wood bat tournament this weekend he (fifteen now) walked off the mound smiling after sawing off/breaking a fourth hitter's bat, "Just call me Black and Decker." I also taught him how to come up and in and hit a batter without getting him in the head.

You can't blame this on an umpire. He has no clue coming into a game that someone has been taught in this manner.

I am a sophmore is hs and I'm not afraid to pitch inside. If I hit him I hit him, it sux but im confident enough that i will get the next guy with out him reaching home. I'm not going to lie I have hit a couple people on purpose, 2 i can remember

1) A guy went cleats high(around the chest almost neck) on our ss on a steal and nothing by the ump, his next ab a meduim fb to the rear.
2) I hit a walk-off the first game i played agains this team, the next game my first ab i got plunked and the pitcher told me to walk-off on that one. he got plunked in the rear.

Thats the only 2 times i remeber throwin intentional. I have thrown close to back people and hit them but not intentional.

To tell a 9u kid to do this is crazy imo though. He could of hit a kid in the face. If i hear him say black and decker to me the next ab i would expect that inside pitch and drive him deep.

I deleted my posts in an attempt to let this thread die. But since it won't and people are taking shots I'll respond one more time. I thought this board was about debate, which can lead to disagreement, not being JUDGEMENTAL.

1) The character I have instilled in my son is if someone intentionally tries to injure you, you have a weapon we'll call lessons. My son has never slide high into anyone. He has never initiated throwing at hitters. I would never tell him to retaliate by coming spikes high into another player. But if an opponent tries to intentionally injure him or his teammates, he knows how to send a message with a fastball. The severity of the crime determines whether the fastball whizzes by the hitter or drills him. One time I wish I could have put the opposing coach up against my son. He promised his pitchers would hit my son the next game and threw at him until they did. I would have preferred my son stuck it in the ribs of the coach.

If anyone is wondering why the coach wanted my son drilled, my son broke up a no-hitter in the seventh inning of a previous game with a bunt. The score was 3-0. The pitcher walked the next hitter. We had the tying run at the late with no outs. In this circumstance I wouldn't call bunting bush. Before anyone suggests reporting the coach, it was two different tourament sponsors so reporting him doesn't matter.

2) It's not what a player has been taught. It's the responsibility of the umpiring crew to maintain control of the game. If a hitter is being thrown at every at-bat until he's hit, the umpire should have a clue. After my son was hit, there were no warnings. My son knew what was going on, but took his base. Since my son was pitching, when the pitcher who hit him came to bat, he returned the favor in the ribs. This hitter took a step towards the mound. There were no warnings.

3) My son did not yell out Black and Decker. He didn't even say it to the other team. He knows rubbing it in would be a quick seat on the bench. He said it to his teammates as he crossed the first base line in a jog heading for the dugout.

And yes, one team threw at my son all summer in 9U and 10U. They couldn't keep him off the bases enough. They figured they would ding him up with HBP's so he couldn't run the bases full speed. One game he was hit four times. At that level there's nothing to be done in retaliation.

Now if anyone wants to post how they might have handled things differently, I'd be interested.

son admitted he was mad at a hitter and wanted to hit him hard. but he just couldn't do it. Ultimately son realized a strike out (esp tying him up) would be the best revenge.

I remember once when he didn't hit a kid. The ball hit the hand or nob of the bat and it bounced up hard right into the face. That was scary.

Son seems to get hit more often than I would like....

He has hit a few batters, not on purpose and usually they are breaking pitches that didn't break. He's got good control and usually doesn't walk or hit batters. I can't remember the last time he hit someone. We're playing this weekend, so now that I've posted this, he will plunk someone.

Tg if someone was purposely throwing at my son, the coach had better show him some support and have a little talk with the ump. Maybe something else was going on you didn't notice? do you or your son have a bad attitude that makes him a target? Just asking 'cause he seems young to be playing the game of baseball with just vengence.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
Tg if someone was purposely throwing at my son, the coach had better show him some support and have a little talk with the ump. Maybe something else was going on you didn't notice? do you or your son have a bad attitude that makes him a target? Just asking 'cause he seems young to be playing the game of baseball with just vengence.

Our head coach asked for a warning during the second at-bat he was thrown at. The umpire didn't want to hear about a previous game(other coach promised my son he would throw at him) and denied it.

I say nothing outside the dugout when I coach other than positioning fielders. Everything else is for other coaches. When I was a head coach I was emotionally calm. It was hard to tell if we were winning or losing by my expressions.

My son has a great attitude. He plays hard, not with a vengance. This is one incident in who knows how many games over the years. The time he got cheapshotted on the slide at second and got a hairline fracture in his thumb and spiked on the bicep, he just happened to be the second baseman. He doesn't knockdown hitters all the time. He just knows how to do it. For the past two years he's pitched mostly in relief and couldn't risk putting extra runners on base.

He says very little on the field except calling out plays (when he plays infield), number of outs and being supportive of teammates who need to be picked up. He's a chatterbox in the dugout with his teammates. If you're wondering about my son's character, he's been named captain of every sport he's ever played at school by his coaches. He was appointed by his teachers to be a member of the student conflict resolution board. He's the kid every parent says is welcome in their house anytime.

This was about a coach being ticked off my son broke up a no-hitter with a bunt. If we were losing 8-0 I'd agree with the coach. But not at 3-0 where he got on base as the leadoff man in the last inning (two hitters later we had the tying run at the plate). I also don't think he liked we were still in the game against his team playing up. The second time he was steamed we beat them. He ripped into his team after the game for losing to a bunch of little kids (8th graders). I think it bothered him even more my son was the pitcher.

When my son was 9U and 10U the opposing coach was a jerk. One game he visited the mound and on the next pitch a pitcher who hadn't walked anyone, hit our batter in the head. We were the team that challenged this team in tournaments. We played them in every semifinal or final. And yes, it intimidated half the kids on the team.

TG,
The post won't die because you won't let it die.

The original intention of this thread was to inform websters about a product for help in pitching inside, after three posts, the topic turned when you posted about your son and certain comments about pitching inside which other websters didn't like, you in turn didn't like their responses. For someone who appears to me to be pretty intelligent, you still don't understand that. Or possibly you do post on purpose what you do, so that attention is brought to you and it can revlove into a whole different thread on purpose.
People only become judgemental when they feel a need to be. That seems to be something you don't like, but your posts cause many to be that way. As some of teh websters have witnessed by your participation in other internet discussions, when the conversation doesn't flow to your liking or stay on topic you get upset. Yet you have done the same to this topic.
You don't like people being nasty, you complain to me I am nasty, yet you made some comments to me about my son in a pm that were uncalled for. On here though, in front of everyone, you will go out of your way to find a way to compliment, I am not into that stuff.
I saw a post from another site sent to me from another person here and I have to tell you I have NEVER seen such a nasty post like that here in 5-6 years. You need to stop calling people judgemental.

I'll end the discussion and also let you know from now on I will end all that do become a bit controversial when you post.