Playing "Age" level vs "Grade" Level for travel

How old is your son?

15. Soph in HS (2025) but playing with 2026 team since still age eligible. Thnx

I think when you are the college recruiting process it is important to play your age at larger event because the college coaches plan their trips on recruiting classes.

@PTWood posted:

I think when you are the college recruiting process it is important to play your age at larger event because the college coaches plan their trips on recruiting classes.

Thanks. Most of boys in his grade are 16-17. Did you mean play grade level w/ graduating class? The 16U teams available to us will play the local tournament circuit. The 15U team has the potential to play national caliber events. The 15U team if they play local will almost certainly play up by age to 16U, so it's almost a moot point. Regardless I thought I'd ask, as while most don't fall in this 'tweener land, some do. No, like an idiot I did not hold my son back. I'm sure this choice has presented or is presenting itself to others in a similar boat. It is basically and functionally "poor man's" holding back/ travel redshirting". If this leads to a gap year or no baseball at next level at all, so be it, Just trying to keep all options open.

This question gets asked every year.  Once I looked at PG WWBA 15U teams of large organizations, there were a number of kids on those teams playing down from their grade level.  Most were not committed, whereas the kids on the organization's 16U teams were.  My conclusion was, the organization will say "this team will mostly play in the older age groups" or "will play in national events" but what they're really saying is "you're not good enough for our 16U team" or "you're not in the D1 recruiting pool now".

My impression is:

If he throws 90+ (or whatever the equivalent is for hitters) at age 15, it doesn't matter what he does.

If not, aim to be playing 17U the summer before senior year, since that's where below-D1 recruiting takes place.  That summer, you don't want to be playing 18U or 16U.   Before 17U, play on the team where he will get the best coaching and playing time.

Playing up (above grade level) shows "I can hang with older kids". Playing down (below grade level) might make people ask "why are you afraid of playing with kids in your grade?"

I agree with what @anotherparent said.  I’ll add that you could also factor in the weed out scenario too.  15u < 16u < 17u.  Better players on fewer teams as weaker players leave the sport as they get older and lose interest or get cut.  There will always be marginal teams at the local level, but overall, more teams are filled with legit HS players as you move into the older classifications.  18u might be the exception.  

Based on your team options I would say play on the 15U team that is going to play bigger/better tourneys and likely better competition

Once you establish yourself beyond freshman ball - age is no longer matters. 5 months younger, 5 months older doesn't matter. The competition is 14-19u in HS. Where is playing down going to get him? Reps against younger, smaller, weaker players are not going to make him any better. If your son is on the "younger side" of his grade and qualifies for the younger age group - under no circumstances should he play there.

Mine were registered with 15u summer teams for after their freshman HS seasons. They both played varsity as freshman at competitive schools and did well. After their seasons they were approached by a good 17u team where they started playing up. When they would fill in for their 15u teams they said it felt like it was moving in slow motion after pitching in state games against the bigger, faster, stronger 17/18 year olds.

Advice is to play 17u locally/regionally. High level 15u ball is almost an oxymoron. You don't really have to travel the country and play at those high level events until it is recruitment time. Play the highest level competition without traveling outside of a 3-4 hr drive.

I think once you get on the big field if you are younger and you need to move up to play on grade you want to do that at 14U or 15U. JMO

@GratefulNTXlurker what I was trying to convey is, if you are thinking about college recruiting, it is often helpful to play with the highest level competition applicable in your graduating class because coaches tend to have a timeline for each class and will get to a point where they are done recruiting one class and have moved on to the next. So, just as an example, a P5 recruiter will focus on the WWBA 16U and younger teams because they are done recruiting 17U class.

First, I can totally respect that every kid is different.  In our case, we never saw how playing with easier competition (son is age-eligible to play a year down), but instead has always played as one of the younger in his grade) was going to help him get better.  He always had to hustle and work hard as a younger player because he was one of the littler kids - he had zero size advantage.  Now that he's growing (and it turns out he will be at least above-average in height, after all) all of that hustle and hard work seems to be paying off.

With my son's case, a summer birthday. He was playing age-level through 12u - he was one of four boys that were a grade ahead of the other 8 boys on the roster.  After attending Cooperstown Dreams Park with his team, he switched teams and moved up to his grade level or higher.  It was not a good fit when my son entered middle school and most of the boys on his team were still in elementary school.  IMO, better players that have a highly competitive mindset will lose interest in playing with younger kids on smaller fields; better players will seek out the challenge to play against older kids in their own grade and higher.  When my son got to 60-90 full time in 8th grade, he shifted to play summer travel two or three age groups up (local/regional competition).  When college recruiting entered the picture,  he shifted again into his grad class and joined the "best possible team playing the highest level competition applicable to his graduating class".   Not so much a plan set by any adults, but it was the doors that my son wanted to walk through.

My son has a birthday after the May 1 deadline. I had him start playing grade appropriate starting in 7th grade. This was despite being an undersized physical late bloomer compared to other Majors level travel players and a lot of his teammates. He was 5’2” 100 in 13u and 5’4” 120 in 14u.  I didn’t want him entering high school coming off one year on the 60/90 competing in 13u slo mo (relative to 14u) ball.

Once you believe your kid can compete he should play up as far as possible. He played 16u as a 14u eligible the summer after freshman year. I saw 16u as the equivalent to varsity ball without the the 17u studs. He showed he was ready for varsity ball. His high school coach didn’t want freshmen on varsity. He was starting to grow.

He was 5’11” 135 in 16u. Academy coaches saw something in him. He was invited to be on 17u teams post soph summer. He was 6’ 160 by soph season. The metrics were now visible. He was ready to show.

Despite both kids (daughter played softball) being physical late bloomers with late birthdays I never gave it a thought. Age and birth date could only be an excuse if allowed to be. I knew they would catch up physically. I’m 6’1” and the second shortest male on both sides. My (ex) wife is 5’8”. While my son was a 5’ 90 12yo his five years older sister was 5’10”.

Until my son had his growth burst he was very conscious of being the short kid. Especially in basketball. One time when he was a 5’2” 13yo we walked by a 6’4” guy who didn’t look coordinated just walking. My son muttered, “What a waste of freak’n height!” He did grow to be 6’2”.

Appreciate everyone's valuable input. Thanks. To elaborate on my thinking and our situation, believe D3 HA is ultimately best fit. So, "playing 17U summer before senior year" is in essence, seemingly the most relevant (& universal) advice for our situation. Admittedly, I may be confusing son's 15U team talent level with level of competition we will face. This team could easily wipe the floor with both of our HS JV teams that have majority 16 to 18yos. HS program is a perennial 6A TX powerhouse if that matters. Son played the local 15U (now 16U) summer circuit last year, and these boys are different animals from what I saw last summer. Son will start as a primary starting pitcher and MIF on HS JV team, but will have to fight for playing time on this travel team (and appropriately so). While he is one of tens of thousands of kids being "loosely" followed by a strong local D1 program, from best I can tell as a pitcher, he has a (travel) teammate that's garnering BIG TIME REAL D1 interest with scouts showing up, as he's already touching 90 with excellent command. Son will have to compete to get an opportunity to even pitch, as the starting 5 are all sitting 85 +. So maybe I should've been more precise and said that 15U team is of (much) higher caliber than the 16U options available to him. While everyone's situation is different, I agree most decision makers don't care, and likely share many of the biases , perceptions, and conventional wisdom already shared. I too may be looking for rationalization of what may ultimately turn out to be a poor decision, or be cognitively biased that way. Though the only things my son and Cody Belinger may share are a mid July birthday and BMI, from best I can tell on his PG page, looks like CB played "down"/ at age level until 16 but later bounced back up to grade level (and obviously WAAAAYYYYYY BEYOND). Some of you may actually KNOW the Bellingers or of his situation and know what is posted on his profile to be erroneous or a misrepresentation. We are going to give this a shot for this year, see how the organization is, but heed the advice below and play 17U summer before summer year. Again, this team will likely play "up" by age locally which would then be grade level for my son, so it's likely a moot point. At a minimum, there are sure to be D1 eyes watching others on the team, so we will be at peace with letting go of gap year-D1 scenario chasing pipe dreams if there's no interest, or further engagement from what little is already there.

@anotherparent posted:

If not, aim to be playing 17U the summer before senior year, since that's where below-D1 recruiting takes place.  That summer, you don't want to be playing 18U or 16U.   Before 17U, play on the team where he will get the best coaching and playing time.

I think it was already posted by others and I also think your kid should play his age this year and then his grade the next 2 years. If he is still looking at HA D3 you can start discussions, attend camps at his rising Junior year.

@GratefulNTXlurker posted:

Son will start as a primary starting pitcher and MIF on HS JV team, but will have to fight for playing time on this travel team (and appropriately so). . . . Son will have to compete to get an opportunity to even pitch, as the starting 5 are all sitting 85 +.

IMO, a HS travel team should have selected players of roughly equal ability, so that all players get roughly equal time, varying only when/if college coaches are asking to see them.   There is very little point to playing on a travel team that is being run as "the best play", with some rated much better than others.  The only reason would be that the coaching (away from tournaments) was especially good.   My son played on teams where the coaches did not play all the players, and the ones who weren't playing usually quit by mid-summer.  It wasn't pleasant.

At the very least you need to find out what the playing time philosophy of the 15U team is, so that you are not spending a lot of money to go pitch one inning in a weekend.

Age or grade????   The older my kids get the more I realize it really doesn't matter. You will get to a point where the funnel is real. Either you develop into a better athlete or you do not. Talent is talent at what ever age you play. If your kid has aspirations to play at the collegiate level, first focus on developing into a varsity HS player. Don't put the cart in front of the horse, so to say. Believe it or not, even HA D3 schools are mainly composed of varsity HS studs. You will get more bang for you buck by having your child sit down and put together a generalized list of schools he is interested in. Then help him narrow it down based on majors. Focus your contact  on those schools that are a good fit. If you are part of a decent travel org then by all means utilize their networking abilities. Many parents are unaware that coaches do talk with other coaches. The longer you are in the baseball world, the more you will notice just how small it really is.     

Also to note: if your kid ends up playing with his "grade" you might just notice that the majority of his competition will be his "age". You just likely never noticed these late winter/early spring kids. This is because they have never had the luxury of being able to play down. 

@anotherparent posted:

IMO, a HS travel team should have selected players of roughly equal ability, so that all players get roughly equal time, varying only when/if college coaches are asking to see them.   There is very little point to playing on a travel team that is being run as "the best play", with some rated much better than others.  The only reason would be that the coaching (away from tournaments) was especially good.   My son played on teams where the coaches did not play all the players, and the ones who weren't playing usually quit by mid-summer.  It wasn't pleasant.

At the very least you need to find out what the playing time philosophy of the 15U team is, so that you are not spending a lot of money to go pitch one inning in a weekend.

Great point and agreed. We dealt with this last summer with teammates quitting from playing time issues. Was a total train wreck. Having lurked here for some time, I was surprised at the general notion/ consensus of "if you pay you play". Our personal experience with club ball here in TX has never been that going back to 10U. That's just our experience, and I don't like absolutes.

Son had options to be PO with another organization, but I felt it was too early to specialize, as his offensive and defensive capabilities are intriguing. Coach WAS clear that he was being brought on to hit and defend, and that pitcher space was crowded. Barring injury, he will likely get plenty of opportunities in spring HS to pitch and get performances on video for recruitment. There are also opportunities to move up, down, and all around intra-organizationally to meet playing time hopes. I reviewed organizational tourney rosters from previous seasons to verify this. I left some other things out too, as I didn't want to make it about money per se, but the costs were notably less than going rate for summer as well, even before subsidized uni's. That was just icing.

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

Age or grade????   The older my kids get the more I realize it really doesn't matter. You will get to a point where the funnel is real. Either you develop into a better athlete or you do not. Talent is talent at what ever age you play. If your kid has aspirations to play at the collegiate level, first focus on developing into a varsity HS player. Don't put the cart in front of the horse, so to say. Believe it or not, even HA D3 schools are mainly composed of varsity HS studs. You will get more bang for you buck by having your child sit down and put together a generalized list of schools he is interested in. Then help him narrow it down based on majors. Focus your contact  on those schools that are a good fit. If you are part of a decent travel org then by all means utilize their networking abilities. Many parents are unaware that coaches do talk with other coaches. The longer you are in the baseball world, the more you will notice just how small it really is.     

Also to note: if your kid ends up playing with his "grade" you might just notice that the majority of his competition will be his "age". You just likely never noticed these late winter/early spring kids. This is because they have never had the luxury of being able to play down.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback! LOVE IT! Down this rabbit hole, HA D3 has always been the most logical fit, as my side of the family are all egghead/ doctorate types and mom's side are all athletes (bro is WS champ from arguably greatest WS of all time). Fortunately he's being followed by an HA D3 that for now seems to be a great fit. Unfortunately, it's not in TX.

I'm from northeast/ midatlantic, grew up and did all schooling up there, but am in north Texas now. Have been here in NTX for almost as long as I was up there. It's blessed me with incredible perspective. As noted in other threads, I too have seen (and may have experienced) the unhealthy extremes of "academic death cage match" up there, and now son the athletic counterpart here (though elements of each are now seemingly and ironically showing up in the other places). Stubbornly holding onto more northeast-centric (and cultural) academic emphasis and not holding son back here in TX has done him no immediate favors. Looking back, the intellectual component emerged much sooner and stole the show. Still, life's not fair, everyone's got challenges, and no one cares. Just trying to buy back some of the time for his physical traits (size, strength, power) to catch up to playing ability. If he were 20-30# heavier with current muscle mass %, I doubt I'd worry about any of this. He's learned to work and compete without the advantage of size and power. The varsity coaches have told him they want to see more strength and power, which he's been working on (controlling what he can control) since late last summer. My perception and intuition tells me he will close the gap enough in next year for his ability to truly shine. The in-between now is admittedly an anxious and insecure place to be.

There are definitely regional differences. We did not find last summer that grade competition was his age. Far from it. Here in (north) TX, our experience has been that more are "held back" than not. You are supposed to play in your graduating year, so those that have been held back are 10-23 months older. Again, this is the majority. The really shrewd parents held back to a maximum of son turning 19 prior to Sept of senior year (to maintain UIL eligibility Sr year, and later enter college as a 20 year (19yr and 11mo) old. An increasing minority have really gone "all in" and held back beyond that, forgoing senior year player eligibility alltogether and banking on getting committed as an underclassman (and entering college as a 21 year old!) . (Thanks Gladwell) This has been discussed ad nauseam and is the crux of the other "player age" thread. Incidentally (and perhaps shamefully) yes, the thought DID cross my mind that if we moved back to northeast now, he'd likely be forced to be held back academically  

There are advantages to be the late bloomer, younger kid if you’re talented enough to compete. These younger, talented kids have to be very fundamentally sound to play as well as the bigger kids.  Some bigger kids never become fundamentally sound and hit a wall when the competition gets tougher.

My son played on a large state LL state runner up. Only four of the kids played high school ball. Three went on to college ball. But, everyone else on the team was all conference in something (football, basketball, lacrosse) in high school. Most of the team was big. They outmuscled and outran the smaller 46/60 and 50/70 fields. But a majority of them lacked the baseball fundamentals to survive the 60/90 field.

My son always played with his grade in the summer and always played up in the fall.  Worked well for him