Skip to main content

122 replies

Playing up????

F FairnessAndRespectMember
What criterion do you HS coaches use to determine if a kid can "play up"?

My son is a 15 yr old freshman in HS who has played extensive national-level travel ball. During the winter, the HS had "varsity A" and "varsity b" teams. The A team was mostly the returning varsity seniors from the year before, plus a couple of juniors, one sophomore and one freshman (who's dad kicked big bucks into the BB program). My son played with the team one game and the varsity coach came up after and told us how impressed he was. We later heard that the coaches nicknamed him "phenom".

OK, no problem. So my kid plays with the B team. And proceeds to rip up while playing over several weeks. Batting, defense, pitching - the whole package. Assistant coach played pro ball and told him, "Kid - I played pro ball and see in your eyes what I use to see in guys that played at that level." All is well, kid is very excited, and looking forward to a great season as JV, even though he knows he could play at varsity level. JV coach says he really wants him on the team.

So the day comes out that they announce the JV roster and - you guessed it - his name is not there. The JV coach finds him that day and says "don't worry kid - you're name's not on the roster, but you'll be playing up." The freshman team is pretty bad, and now the kid is depressed. He had the highest batting average, lowest ERA, and highest K's/Inning on the JV team and now he's sent down to the Freshman team. Kids that hadn't even GONE to a JV winter ball game ended up on the roster.

I can honestly say that I was alright with him being on JV this year, because I knew he would make varsity as a sophomore. But now, they want to only have to "use" a freshman slot for him even though the JV coach said he wanted the kid to play up.

Getting to the point: what should we do? If they were willing to screw him over this year as a freshman roster slot playing JV, what happens next year? Chew up only JV slot as he plays varsity? I really feel he is getting the shaft on this because he'll be contributing at a level above the one he gets recognized for. For any potential college scouting, his name won't even be on a varsity roster until he's a Junior, even though he plays 3 years. We've considered a transfer or possibly looking for a year-round travel team and blow off the HS baseball. The freshman on the varsity is not nearly as complete a player as my kid, but he was able to buy his way in. The Varsity coach used to coach the sophomore on the team as a youth, so he brought him up the previous year as a freshman and his parents also are well off. Yet I think my kid got the shaft as we did not properly butter up the boosters. The freshman coach says my kid will be one of the starting varsity pitchers next year, but I don't believe it because we've been jerked around so badly now.

Disclaimer: My kid is an above average player, but not some 6'4" giant. But he has extreme smarts for the game, automatically positions himself for each batter as he notices swing tendencies (inside out, hands not quick, etc). So it's not a case of a dad thinking his kid is God's gift to baseball - simply an honest assessment that he's a smart, athletic, aggressive player who plays at a level above his freshman standing. Think of a kid who does not need to be told to hit behind the runner at second with less than 2 outs. The kid is getting a raw deal, and he's smart enough to know it....

Any advice? Should we transfer to a school where the boosters and a wallet don't run the show? Are there high quality teams that play non-HS ball during the HS season? (I can see the jerseys now: "Socal Outcasts"). Or is everybody who's any good on an HS team and just clam it up if they're getting scr3wed?

Signed,
FairnessAndRespect

P.S. Apologies for the long winded dissertation...
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
Is he locked in for the whole year at his current level???
A lot of times i have Frosh who work their way up the ladder, but I give them time to do it. Some may get impatient, but that's the just the way it probably is going to be unless we are in a reall down year where there are a lot of slots up for grabs.
Remember, the head coach has a lot of levels that he's trying to think thru and no individual kid is on the top of that list. He has to make decisions based on his whole program. As far as the comments about the money I have no idea because we just don't operate that way... the school gives me a budget and that's that.
My first impression after reading your post is this... Dad, take a deep breath and let the kid play... no matter what team he's on. If he dominates; enjoy it... if he dominates he will move up the levels.
BumBum1,000+ posts
F&R,

Trojan-Skipper is correct. Take a deep breath. If your kid is good he'll eventually play varsity by his Junior Season. That's really the only year that matters, anyway. College coaches can see talent and if he can play then they won't give a rip if he played varsity as a Frosh.

I sense that your ego was bruised. But don't transfer and make a big to-do based on that.

Look, who knows how good your kid is? I'm not trying to offend you here, but I have seen many, many child-stars at age 14 on so-called super-select travel teams who think they're better than they really are. For one thing, your kid MAY be better than another frosh who is also 15, but at 17 that other frosh may mature into a better player than your son!

Your kid's what, 15? Give him time and stop pressing. Frankly, from the sound of your post he may very well be out of baseball if you don't back off. He's playing high-school baseball! For your son's sake, shut-up and sit down!
Last edited by Bum
F FairnessAndRespectMember
Trojan-Skipper -

Thanks so much for taking time to respond. So many on this forum have pro/college studs that it's nice to see someone sincerely chime in on a HS freshman issue.

My son is most likely *not* locked in to the freshman team. In fact, the varsity coach has asked him to continue to play with BOTH the freshman and JV teams until the season starts. So he is playing one game with freshman and then driving an hour to play with the JV. So I think they understand that he does not belong where his "roster position" shows him. That's actually what bothers me - that they are willing to not simply say, "he's playing at JV level, so put him on the roster".

But your insight as a coach is appreciated. Your comment about "working up the ladder" is certainly something we don't fear, and actually look forward to. I just have this nagging fear of whether there is actually a level "playing field" based upon what we've seen so far. My wife and I have already discussed asking the pitching coach at the local 4 year D1 school to be his pitching coach in order to "play the game" and get him face time with the right people.

I guess this may be a case of us finally losing our baseball innocence. I had always hoped that if we raised a very good ball player who is respectful, intelligent and gets along great with teammates, that things would work out for him. I guess we'll have to continue to learn about the "process and politics" side and hope that folks such as yourself will help guide us through the worst of the land mines.

I'm curious - the head coach stated in a meeting that "I do NOT want to EVER hear from a parent". Is this typical? In a case such as ours, would you still expect a parent to speak with you if they had an issue? Or is this simply a way of avoiding interfering parents? (By the way, we're not that type - we're just respectful parents who want a fair shake for our kid)...

FairnessAndRespect
T theEH1,000+ posts
F and R,
Welcome to the HSBBW.
a great site for info.
And to discuss your issue's.

Don't get caught up in , My kid should be playing at this level??
Baseball/Life isn't fair.

Now Son had the exact same thing happen to him.
Played freshman ball as a freshman.
Played JV ball as a sophmore.
Varsity both Junior and Senior year.
Was a drafted player, and now at a D1.

So don't worry about whether your son will be seen as a freshman in HS.
It mean's nothing, College's don't have the time are resources to spend reading are storing HS roster list's.
If you want your son on a certain college list go to the college camp.
If you want on a bigger list go to a showcase.

Remember that coaches have ego's to.
And that freshman coach want's to WIN?
Son's freshman team Won the 1st league championship in school history.
Same thing happened in JV.
What would happen to your son on varsity. Would he be a starter?
if not let him play with his age group in HS.
It's not a demotion, It's an opportunity.
The coach is counting on him to bring the level of play of the freshman team up a notch, By watching and playing with a great player like your son.
If that make's since?
Let your son know that he is needed on the freshman team.
If he feel's sorry for himself he won't give a 100% to his team.
And that negetivity come's from the Parent's exspectation's of what they think it should be like.
Well just let thing's happen with no complaint's.
Your son will be fine, Trust Me?
EH
F FairnessAndRespectMember
quote:
Originally posted by Bum:
Your kid's what, 15? Give him time and stop pressing. Frankly, from the sound of your post he may very well be out of baseball if you don't back off. He's playing high-school baseball! For your son's sake, shut-up and sit down!


Bum -

I appreciate your feedback. You've certainly got a point that nothing matters at 15 if it does not continue for the kid to develop for the next couple of years. However, that's my point. Dominating at 15 against other typical freshman does nothing for his development. The level of competition he has seen playing travel ball has elevated his game. I mean, isn't that WHY we put our kids on travel teams? A big part of my concern is what happens when kids aren't challenged - how can they improve?

"Give him time and stop pressing" - My son also was a starter on football BY HIS OWN CHOICE. I understand alot of dads may "run the show". But you simply have to believe me when I say that my son recently commented how he missed travel ball because they "GOT" to play a couple games a day.

"Frankly, from the sound of your post he may very well be out of baseball if you don't back off." - You're simply wrong here. He WILL play somewhere, because we as parents have seen his expression when he hears of an upcoming game. Some kids simply love the game and he's one of them. I guess you'll just have to believe me on this one.

I DO appreciate your feedback. I didn't come here looking for kudos or anything; simply feedback and advice. You offered, and I appreciate the additional things to consider that you provided. As my signature says,

FairnessAndRespect
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I hope your son really does love the game because it is becoming more and more rare to see kids like that - too much video games.

All we have is your word to go on about his talent and when you mentioned about the coach saying he doesn't want talk to parents is not unusual but not the standard. In the past has others parents at the school been problems? My first year as head coach the parents wanted me fired so many times the joke was you could set your watch to how often and regularly they went to the board of education. We ended up playing in the first regional championship game in school history that year. The point of my story is that if a coach has a history of bad parents he is going to be less likely to want to talk to them. I have a good set of parents now but I don't talk to them that much and it all goes back to that first year.

Why in the world do you have to drive an hour between freshman and JV practices? I have never been to California but that doesn't make too much sense there and would like to understand it.

I am not saying that there are no schools that don't play politics but overall coaches are going to put the best players out there to put themself in a position to win. A couple of years ago I sat a senior to play a freshman and we ended up winning our third district championship because of it. Please be patient.

I wish your son luck and just don't push it and turn into one of those dads. I have seen many destroy the passion their sons had.
BumBum1,000+ posts
F&R,

I know I got your attention there, but it wasn't for your sake. It was for your son's. The mental aspect of baseball and meddling parents are bigger reasons kids drop out than the physical aspect.

Definitely DO NOT call the coach. Your son is a young man and it is his job to move up on his own. If you want to proactively guide him, do it off school grounds by getting him the best training. If you feel his frosh ball is not helping him get better, than have him play as many games as possible with select teams in select tournaments in the Summer and Fall.

Also, if you feel your kid is a victim of politics, keep that opinion to yourself. I guarantee you if you blab that to the other parents it will work its way back to the coach.

Look, a coach doesn't owe you fairness and respect. A coach only owes you the truth.

If a pro scout looks at your son, he wants to know his present ability, not his high school stats. If a college scout looks at your son, he will be looking at his Junior or Senior year. But BOTH will be looking at his makeup, and that makeup (attitude) is directly descended from YOU. Set an example.
Last edited by Bum
T theEH1,000+ posts
FR,
Most HS are not going to compare to select travel
Ball.
If that is what you and your son were expecting, well change your expectations.
Cause HS is what it is.
A community of players from differant backgrounds that come together for the Spring
Season to represent there
School.
Not any individual single player. But there SCHOOL
Its a PRIVELEDGE not a right.
Listen to what Bum and others have said.
You can thank us later.
Don't me get wrong, none of us here on this site have done things perfect?
But one of the first things you need to learn as a parent of a HS baseball player is the fact that you have
No Control over anything
There comes a time in every Athletes Parents lives when they need to cut the ties with being so involved in decision making.
You can't control what you have no control over.
Worry about his Grades.
That will help more than being on any team as a freshman.
EH
F FairnessAndRespectMember
Bum/theEH/Coach2709 -

I appreciate your frankness and insight. A couple on thoughts regarding your comments:

a) He's an all-honors student, so potential overemphasis on baseball over education is definitely not there. If anything, we've been perhaps sometime too strong in emphasizing how one injury can take a baseball career away, but your academic achievements can carry you in case of an injury.

b) We will definitely not be calling the coach. Everyone's feedback on this thread has set our minds and hearts to ease and we feel alot better. This board is great therapy! :-)

3) Regarding discussion of pro scouts - I know alot of parents here have kids that have a heavy emphasis on this. We simply want our kid to have the OPPORTUNITY to play in college and be given the chance to be fairly treated for what he is able to do on the field. No perform - no reward. We feel this is something valuable for him in becoming a young man.

4) Re: "none of us here on this site have done things perfect". that's why I'm here. I have enormous respect for the life lessons many of you have learned from your kids baseball, and I'm hoping to further learn from that as we start out with our freshman.

5) Re: "Cause HS is what it is." Ouch. The ultimate reality. I guess once you've been successful at the travel select level, you're not prepared to have to "step down". A tough pill to swallow, but as you indicate, that's simply the way things are.

6) Re: "There comes a time in every Athletes Parents lives when they need to cut the ties with being so involved in decision making." Fortunately, I was quite aware of this, and told my son after I finished coaching his final Pony team that "Son, I've taken you as far as I can. You now belong to the HS coaches. You'll always owe them the same level of respect you've shown me. I'm very proud of you." He understands this and it has made us closer as I think he appreciates the many hours we spent at the BB diamond when no other kids were out there.

7) Re: "Why in the world do you have to drive an hour between freshman and JV practices?" He has been ill all week, and we told him he could skip both games if he wanted. He said "No WAY". Not sure why the games are so far apart, but BB-loving kid refused to miss either game.

You have all been quite insightful and kind in your comments. My son has read the posts, and he, my wife, and I are all feeling alot better as a result of your feedback. This is my first thread on this board and I appreciate your input. Over time, I may even be bold enough to update his situation in a hopefully humble and respectful way if anyone would be interested.

I say with all sincerity that despite his success playing baseball, I am absolutely more proud of WHO my son is than anything he could do on any baseball field.....

Sincerely,
FairnessAndRespect
Last edited by FairnessAndRespect
T theEH1,000+ posts
FR,
Most HS are not going to compare to select travel
Ball.
If that is what you and your son were expecting, well change your expectations.
Cause HS is what it is.
A community of players from differant backgrounds that come together for the Spring
Season to represent there
School.
Not any individual single player. But there SCHOOL
Its a PRIVELEDGE not a right.
Listen to what Bum and others have said.
You can thank us later.
Don't me get wrong, none of us here on this site have done things perfect?
But one of the first things you need to learn as a parent of a HS baseball player is the fact that you have
No Control over anything
There comes a time in every Athletes Parents lives when they need to cut the ties with being so involved in decision making.
You can't control what you have no control over.
Worry about his Grades.
That will help more than being on any team as a freshman.
EH
T theEH1,000+ posts
Don't ask why I posted that twice, I have a new Blackberry and I'm still trying to figure it out.

FandR,
You folks will be just fine.
You have come to the right site for group therapy.lol
If your son really wants to play baseball,
First lesson?
Baseball is not always fair. From this point on.
Its those players that keep working hard and face adversity as a challenge that prevail.
EH
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
F&R

I am a bit removed from the HS frosh scene of today as my last son graduated college in 1999 but let me offer this from my experiernces:

01-- my son as a frosh was good enough to be the starting CF on the HS varsity, the coach told me so, but coach had an allegiance to his seniors, fair enough, and my son played JV , there was no frosh team


02-- as a 16 year old HS junior my son tried out for a travel team in our region--he made the team but had three college ftreshman in front of him on the roster in the outfield--- he was fully aware and looked to learn from them---three games into the season he was in the starting lineup--- he made it work for him

I guess the bottom line is to let the kid do his thing--if he has the talent it will all work out--it worked for my son
T Texan1,000+ posts
FR, this kind of cr*p happens and it is widespread.

Just a few things for emphasis, most of them have already been noted by other posters.

The player talks to the coach on almost all matters. If the problem is very serious & the player can't resolve it after a few tries, then perhaps the parent makes the contact.

HS ball is not that important. And what happens in HS during his first couple of years will have no effect on his college recruiting.

Some HS programs are "seniority" programs. Just the way some coaches choose to run it.

If he is playing top tier select ball summer and fall, playing against weak competition won't hurt him much in the spring. Won't help him, but won't hurt much.

All your son can do is keep doing his best.

After the season gets going, he could go to the coach and ask "where do I need to improve to make JV". He might get a real answer. Or he might get fed a line.

Hope things end up going well for your son.
S SJbaseball10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
HS ball is not that important.


Then why play? I remember a poll on a local message board that asked would you rather play on a Perfect Game "World" Champion or a Texas High School Baseball Champion and it was overwhelming in favor of the HS championship.

In regards to the original poster's question, though...I will not put any underclassmen on the Varsity unless he is going to start or at least play A LOT. Why would you? PLAYING TIME is what is important. 200 JV innings > 20 Varsity innings any time!!! Now the issue of JV vs Freshman team. There is no JV or Freshman State Championship is there??? For that reason, I tend to keep all Freshmen together (at least at the beginning) even if they are better than most or all of the JV guys. It allows that whole group to have success and get a good feeling about playing baseball for us. Many times, though, I have a weak moment and let a very talented frosh play with the JV (as I would bet will happen with your son if the scenario is as you portray it). Bottom line is, enjoy these 4 years!!!!!
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I'll be honest I was insulted on the HS ball is not important comment - if I took it wrong I apologize ahead of time and would like clarification as to what you are meaning so we can be on the same page.

HS ball is VERY important because it teaches you play for something greater than yourself. My problem with the travel teams and such is that it is a selfish and individualistic aspect of baseball. I have had several guys play on those teams and they come back selfish and more worried about themselves. I have seen many teams created by daddies who were unhappy with their son's playing time on the HS team. It is their way of showing the HS coach he was wrong. Just because you pay a whole bunch of money and get picked for a team doesn't mean it's the greatest thing for your son.

On the flip side - I truly don't believe all travel teams are that bad. I believe MOST of them are out to help the kids and it's the parents who ruin the kids. Travel teams should help the player advance in their skills for the HS team. They can work hand in hand for the best of the kid.

Not all HS coaches are that great. Sometimes the school just puts John Doe in there because they need someone or they take it to supplement their income or the play favorites or just play Seniors because it is their time. Once again I truly believe that MOST HS coaches are out to win and will put the best players out there on the field. You have to show SOME loyalty to the players - especially if you are trying to sell the team concept and have them give up being selfish and individualist feelings - but if they prove they cannot get the job done then sit them. I will give my Seniors the first chance but if they cannot get the job done I sit them. Parents can destroy team chemistry faster than anything. They give the kids terrible attitudes and it carries over. Travel teams sometimes feed that attitude in parents.

I am not trying to cause trouble with this response and don't want to get into an argument but HS ball is VERY important.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I stayed out of this one as long as I could. Who is the coach? If your not going to allow your son to play for the coach and do what is asked of him with a good attitude then take your son somewhere else. He is a freshman right? Pay your dues. When and if the time comes that the coach decides that your son is ready for the JV Varsity , whatever it might be then he will make that move. If your not going to be able to trust that the coach has your sons best interest at heart then you need to go somewhere where you feel he does. To be quite honest with you your statement about taking him to the local D-1 pitching coach for lessons so he can get some face time with the right people is alarming to me. Face time at 14, in front of the right people? Why dont you let your son grow in the program and not get caught up in what other kids are doing? Why not look at the first couple of years as a time to prepare for the most important years his JR and SR years in HS? No one is going to care or remember who played freshman or JV. If your attitude rubs off on your son it wont matter anyway. To be honest with you if your son was in my program I would want you to leave. I could careless how talented your son was. You strike me as a parent that would be a serious pain in the A**. Sorry for the harsh response. But the fact that you are reacting this way makes me believe that you feel you should be running the program. Lighten up and let your son play baseball. Let him have fun. Let him earn his stripes in the program. If he truly is a stud and has a great attitude and work ethic he will be fine when it matters the most. I have seen alot of potentially fine baseball players turned off by the game because their parents couldnt let them have fun. Have him try out for a legit summer program and then he will get plenty of quality baseball in the summer and fall. I hope for your sons sake you are not talking like this in front of him.
B Big1toe10+ posts
I have to thank you all for your comments. You don't know how it affects everyone who reads it. I read eveyone from start to finish and will have my son read them too. Many, many things that were said really hit home. I also felt like my son was in a similar situation and would not get a fair shot at where he should be playing as a freshman. I now have a totally new out look on everything and know that if he is good enough one day he will play varsity. Whether that be as a freshman, sophmore or junior. It will be okay. Thanks to you all!!!!!!
BumBum1,000+ posts
Big1toe, great attitude!

I think F&R and you both have felt the types of things a lot of the parents on HSBBW have felt. That's okay, because it is less important how you feel than how you respond. High school baseball can be very competitive, and there are times when you sense--or even know--your kid is not getting a fair shake. In these times, it is best to resolve to direct this negative energy into molding a better player through hard work. Prove 'em wrong! Otherwise, you just destroy yourself. And the ballpark is littered with the ghosts of players who might have been. Good luck.
F FairnessAndRespectMember
quote:
Originally posted by Coach May:
To be honest with you if your son was in my program I would want you to leave. I could careless how talented your son was. You strike me as a parent that would be a serious pain in the A**. Sorry for the harsh response. But the fact that you are reacting this way makes me believe that you feel you should be running the program.

Lighten up and let your son play baseball. Let him have fun.

I hope for your sons sake you are not talking like this in front of him.


These statements are so tasteless, uncalled for and inappropriate that I won't even address them. Each one is so completely wrong they are unworthy of individual attention. Your post is totally out of line. I deleted my original response to you because it started to smell like your reply. 'nuff said.

Now that I'm calmer, I'll "educate" you in the tone you used with me:

1) The original post I THOUGHT was very clear. I must have been mistaken. So here's the Cliff notes for ya:
- Kid is a very decent smart ballplayer.
- Kid LOVES baseball more than any other kid I've personally known.
- Kid knows the level of play he can be at from his travel ball experience.
- Kid is unhappy dominating on freshman team while pop flies are dropped, balls between the legs, ball between two infielders staring at each other, etc, goes on. Freshman team is BAD!
- Boosters are running the show, money talks at this school. Other kids with lesser skill, but with parental money play up. We are not rich.
- Parent asked forum for options and thoughts.

4) Here's clarification on the things you "read into" my post (Cliff note style to keep it simple for you):
- Parent has NEVER said a WORD to any coach. And never planned on it.
- Kid already loves baseball and doesn't need an online coach to tell his dad to let him to have fun.
- Kid is a very well liked, popular kid who has NOT been "stained" by a parent. Or an online coach with an ego about "his program" and a hatred of player's parents.
- I am the kid's Dad. You as a coach obviously only have "your program" in mind. I have my son's interests in mind. Your priorities can be influenced and compromised. Mine can't. Period.
- Kid's strength is NOT 6'5" height or 95+mph. Visibility of intangibles comes from coaches getting first hand experience with him. Hence the pitching coach thought. Showcases and radar aren't everything.
- I asked for insight and guidance. Many offered it. You felt the need to get personal.
- You've got 1500+ posts here and I've got >10. It doesn't make you right and me wrong. But the tone of your post is VERY scary. Rest assured, coach, as you noted, I WOULD pull my kid from any program YOU were involved with. I sincerely hope you get counseling to help you with your nastiness and attitude problem. Hating caring parents of players is no way to live life...

To all other posters who sincerely offered their view and insight in a meaningful respectful way: your posting was a definite help for me and my wife. We felt so much better hearing your advice and experiences, and were completely at peace after reading everything. We now feel so much better about things knowing many of you understood how we felt. As several of you stated, we're going to focus on savoring the four years of HS baseball as they will be gone in a flash. We'll let his skills and love of the game drive where he ends up.

Saturday he was asked to play another winter ball game up with JV. 1 for 2 plus a walk. Two innings pitched, no runs and 5 strikeouts. He HAD fun...

We enjoyed watching him play and will continue to do so with a new perspective from the kind input of many of you (coach may's personal denigrating diatribe not included). SINCERE thanks to the rest of you....Now, back to baseball :-)
Last edited by FairnessAndRespect
F FairnessAndRespectMember
quote:
Originally posted by Bum:
I think F&R and you both have felt the types of things a lot of the parents on HSBBW have felt. That's okay, because it is less important how you feel than how you respond. High school baseball can be very competitive, and there are times when you sense--or even know--your kid is not getting a fair shake. In these times, it is best to resolve to direct this negative energy into molding a better player through hard work. Prove 'em wrong! Otherwise, you just destroy yourself. And the ballpark is littered with the ghosts of players who might have been. Good luck.


Bum - Such an incredibly wise and insightful post. Each year, there are groups of us freshman parents and you likely hear the same thoughts due to uncertainty. I just want to reiterate what Big1toe said and thanks for the positive message!!!
Last edited by FairnessAndRespect
T theEH1,000+ posts
FandR,
I'm not here to protect Coach May he's capable of doing that by himself.

But think about it from Coach May's perspective>
He see's overbareing parent's year end and year out.
All thinking my kid should be on Varsity.
He's about to be bombarded again this year.
It come's with the terratory.
And he has to be somewhat civil to them.
But allow him a chance to VENT.
And don't take it Personel.
OK.
EH
B Big1toe10+ posts
Coach May's comments were straight and to the point while not directed at me it sure hit me right between the eyes. I had my son read them all last night and I believe he is much more at ease now as to where he plays and what team he makes. The 4 years do go fast so enjoy them. I've seen many, many parents destroy a kids attitude toward his team and baseball. If our kids are good enough to play they will, if they're not they won't. I can not believe a coach would sit a good kid with a good attitude, skills and hard working. However, if a parent is in the background that may and could ruin everything.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I learned a long time ago if you dont want to hear what people think then dont ask. Tell us next time what you want to hear. The fact is I have dealt with these types of situations for many years. The parents that allow their kid to make his own way and offer encouragement and are positive seem to always end up with a positive experience. Like I said before if you do not trust the coach to have your sons best interests at heart move him. One thing is for sure your son will have to make his own way in baseball sooner or later. Now for me Im going to say how I feel. And I dont have a problem with people who tell me how they feel. In fact I respect people who have the guts to tell me how they feel regardless of wether Im going to like it or not. Next time you want a sugar coated response just let me know and I will not respond.
M Michael'sDad100+ posts
I sat on the sidelines for a while and have to put my two cents in. These things work out, sometimes for the better:

For one, HS ball is just one part of the equation. You also have summer ball, fall ball, and showcases. Each team may have different needs, that aren't readily apparent to the parent, and these needs may dictate playing time and position. A kid may be a star on one team and a role player on another. Overtime, these may change many times. While I agree that you may run into a some coaches that are biased in their selections and playing time (although I feel that is more prevalent in travel ball, and in particular the younger age groups), I also feel that It can actually work out to be a positive for the “disadvantaged” player and can actually be a negative for the players receiving the preferential treatment. Preferential treatment can give a player a false sense of ability, make a player fragile mentally, cause them to work less, and it can lead to their being less able to handle adversity when it arises - and it will arise during a baseball career. With the proper mental attitude, it can work in favor of the player that isn't being pushed along.

As an example, my son went through a similar situation. Could have been on varsity as a FR but was on JV (we don't have a FR team) while a FR friend (no better than he, IMHO) started varsity. Was on varsity as a SO but didn't start but a handful of games while his friend again started as did a FR. My son started on varsity as a JR and was team Offensive MVP, undefeated as a pitcher, area POY, and he committed to a nice D1. Personally, I feel adversity made my son mentally stronger and it made him work harder than any other player on the team to prove he was a "player". It made him ultimately a better player for the experience. At times it is tough on the player, and the parent, but if the boy really wants it, he'll work it out – not the parents.

I feel it is a little too early to panic when the boy is a FR and hasn't even played the first HS game of the season.

Step back and take a breath, and for goodness sake don’t walk around in front of him bad mouthing the coach and his decisions. That ultimately does nobody any good and can give your son a sense of entitlement which could serve to reduce his respect for future coaches and their decisions and adversely affect his mental attitude toward the game.

P.S. I don't believe a currently active D1 coach can, by NCAA rules, give lessons to your son. He is in HS and the NCAA considers a 9th grader a prospective student-athlete. That, I believe, precludes them from having individual contact and giving lessons.
Last edited by Michael'sDad
B Big1toe10+ posts
Coach, everything you have said has really hit home with me and is greatly appreciated accept for one. Moving a kid is 99% of the time the wrong thing to do. What happens when that doesn't work? Move again? Kind of like the grass is always greener. I've found that hard work and attitude and patience always win out. Situations always work themselves out whether it be because of injury or someone moving on for what they think will be better. My son knows what he has to do and will do it. I only wish all coaches were like you and gave the kids straight answers and not fluff.
L luvthisgame10+ posts
This string has helped me to, thanks for all the input. I have a 14 soon to be 15, throws mid to high 70's now, has good speed and can play. We are not in So. Cali, Texas, Fl or any "baseball state" competition is bad until the varsity level.
He will have more trouble hitting freshman pitching
because of the lack of speed.
But as many have said here, I will sit back support and applaud his efforts wherever he plays.

Life is too short too short.
d8d81,000+ posts
Most parents view their son through parent's eyes. Having my own children I know how that is, but as coaches we are strictly viewing your son as a player and eval. his talents.

As a coach, this will come up. Ex....had a dad come to practice wanting to know why his fresh. son was not on the varsity.....his reasoning was that his son was LL All-star, select team stud, travel team phenom, etc. I turned and asked my varsity players how many of them fit that category as a freshman, and they all raised their hand. So, now what? Have your son prove his worth on what he can do at the hs level. Not on what he did on some team that competes against other 13/14 yo.

Another thing.....I like my players playing on travel teams in the summer because they can get a ton of games. This allows them to learn the 'game'. Most of the summer teams in this area do very little teaching of skills. Let you hs coach do this for your sons.
T Texan1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I'll be honest I was insulted on the HS ball is not important comment - if I took it wrong I apologize ahead of time and would like clarification as to what you are meaning so we can be on the same page.

I am not trying to cause trouble with this response and don't want to get into an argument but HS ball is VERY important.


It was not at all intended as an insult. But we will just have to disagree on the importance of HS ball.

I have seen more "team" on most select teams than I have seen on most HS teams.

Most HS coaches are out there to keep their jobs. [Winning is only one factor in that. And even the winningest coach can be felled by politics.] And that sometimes conflicts with playing their best nine. Most HS baseball programs are sorely underfunded. And money can, and frequently does, affect the lineup as well. And when the coach lets these factors affect the lineup, that can destroy team chemistry in a hurry.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
F&R you are getting the hard cover version of this novel.
Some very good all be it harsh advice. There aren't too many parents on this site that don't think their son's are great ball players and people in general.
You are getting honest reaction from coaches who hqave seen this parental attitude way too many times. I have seen it and I nave seen players who had talent leave the game because their parents give their son's bad attitudes. They cary that attitude on to the field and it makes you sick.
I suggest you step back and re examine your approach and listen to whyat is being said here. It is the best advice you will ever get.
You don't believe it but you are a meddling parent. I know this because you were willing to disregard the coach saying not to meddle. it is very hard for a parent to let go and let your son swim or sink. Support him but do not interfer. It always bothers me when I hear a parent/player say he is better that the other plaer or too good for a team. Tell him to play the game to the best of his ability no matter what. If he is as good as you think he will move up.
I just think you have gotten some great advice from some of the best sources so it is up to you haw you deal with it.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Great post MichealsDad and congrats to your son I knew he would end up in a good college program. When I see the posts from dads like EH MichealsDad BigToe Bobblehead etc I know your kids are going to be fine. They are the kind of kids I want on my team and in my program. They understand that it takes hard work and dedication and a true desire to earn what you get to be sucessfull. And parents like you guys are what makes a HS program sucessfull. Baseball is not an instant gratification sport. You have to be willing to pay your dues and fight through adversity. I tell kids all the time to prove me wrong. If your not in the line up prove to me why you should be. And then I will put you in the line up. Players that have had to fight for everything they get are tough as nails. They are winners and they will overcome any obstacles thrown in front of them. And they will have a sense of pride in knowing that they did it themselves.
D dparz10+ posts
Just remember that all those kids on the freshman team you just dissed will be with your son for the next 4 years (the missed pop-ups, between the legs, missed cutoff, strikout, bad baserunning, missed signs, no pitching, etc)

Doesn't sound like any of them play travel ball, probably will not improve all that much (not committed), unless the class behind and ahead of your son is really impressive I would leave right now - find the most competitve HS that will accept you....or can you/your son handle that he is the best player on the team and to a large degree must carry it physically, mentally, in preparation, offseason, etc.

The weird irony is that in travel ball you play with an assembled bunch of All-Stars but the only people who come to watch the games are the parents of those playing - Your average HS is a notch below in quality but townsfolk and students (girls) come to the games, in a small town reporters from the local paper write/photo - sometimes radio stations cover the game (Scotland HS, NC) and you can be a hero... (we had 500 at interconference game last yeat (Pinecrest/Scotland) and probably will again this year)
Last edited by dparz
T theEH1,000+ posts
Coach May
quote:
Baseball is not an instant gratification sport. You have to be willing to pay your dues and fight through adversity.


Thank you for the kind word's Coach,
Let me explain that I've made more then my share of mistake's.
I'm wiser now but still learning.
When life put's up a roadblock.
You could stop.
You could try to go around it.
Are you could work to move it out of your way.
Your choice?

Big1toe, I'm not grouping anyone.
You, FandR, Myself and other's here are just parent's that want what's best for are kid's.
Nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn't be reading and posting if I didn't want to find answer's to question's. That's what this site is all about.
Learning?

EH
C CatchingCoach05100+ posts
I have found in coaching HS baseball that playing kids up is a very touchy subject for everyone involved. I have found that in most cases it is better too try to keep kids at the freshman level together as much as possible.

The first thing is, when a kid gets moved up from freshman ball, his teammates (and parents) usually start talking and wondering why him and not me or my son. It can create turmoil under the surface that even the coach may not know about. It can divide a team or program.

Secondly, we are a fairly large school. Sometimes the freshman do not know many of the sophomore or older kids. So, when that kids gets moved up he usually has the pressure of trying to show he belongs, but also has the pressure of trying to form a bond with his new teammates.

Another real touchy area is the kid that gets moved up and struggles. You need a tough kid that can battle through that. I have seen kids tear up freshman ball, get moved up in the middle of the year and struggle, and never get their game back.

All and all, there are many things that must be considered when moving a young player up. Like I said, I like to keep player together at least for freshman year. These are the kids they will be playing varsity and JV with as juniors and seniors and it gives them time to develop team unity and cohesiveness that can pay off later.
Next

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×