POP Time, 1.88 good?

Trying to get a true time from a video like you presented is tough.  But if he is a true and consistent 1.88 that is fantastic.  Obviously accuracy is important.  

Blocking the biggest thing that jumps out to me is his left leg.  When blocking both legs need to be behind you, the glove blocking the "5" hole and the throwing hand behind the glove.  He keeps his left leg out creating a very large 5 hole and almost picking the ball as opposed to taking it in the chest.  Meaning it looks like his glove hand comes up with the ball when it bounces instead of just letting it him square in the chest protector.  Sounds like it sucks (it does) but that is the proper way to block.  In the first block attempt it appeared centered.  He still dropped to one knee and when he did his body came forward.  This will make keeping the ball close to you harder when you block it as well.    Framing there wasn't a lot of examples...  Make sure he has proper glove position when he receives...I would suggest keeping glove a tad lower (around batters knee).  Makes pulling up lower pitches easier and less obvious, plus its a great place for a pitch.

What kind of formal training has he had at the position if you don't mind if I ask?

It takes a lot of work to put a video together, so kudos to you for getting it together.  Only non-technique comment I would suggest is it might help to add video of him catching from the side or front instead of primarily from behind the plate, even if it's not in-game and just practice.  In some of the videos, the umpire blocks a lot of what you can see, especially for receiving and throw downs.  The other views would allow you to emphasize catching skills and footwork.

Great video. Well constructed and great variety of shots and angles. Good work! My son is a 2017 catcher who just finished HS baseball.

Some observations:

Either break the video into two videos, one for offense and one for defense, or shorten total length to say 2.5 minutes or less.

As Kevin noted. The blocking technique needs work (both knees down and glove down and "inside" the knees every time unless no time or block is far off the plate, and which case a slide-pick might be better)... Best of luck going forward. 

Yes, good pop time and good game video.  What were his pop times in any showcases or camps?  It's a reality check to see what his times are when he goes to an event testing his skills.

Have you gone to Perfect Game and PBR sites to look at sample video of high profile catchers?  Could be helpful to see what angles skills video for catchers are used.  

Your son looks strong and def a canon of an arm... 

I agree with a few of the comments....

1) game video is nice, but video from the side or the pitcher (even if it's practice) would be better.....you can show him blocking 6 or 7 pitches...heck, they don't even need to be that hard, but his technique is easier viewed from the front

2) with regard to the blocking....agree that he needs to keep both knees down, but in the video, it appeared that almost every pitch he blocked was to his right...a couple probably could have been blocked with both knees....but I think he did need to slide for a few.  Again, video taken from the front will allow you to show each type because you can locate the pitches

3) where was the 1.88 POP recorded.  If it was the pitch that you showed in the video, that's not accurate....he wasn't in a game situation catching stance (actually not close) and he was almost on the plate by the time he caught it.  No way that can be representative of a game situation pop time.  Not being harsh....but any coach who saw the video would immediately notice the same thing.

Other than that...looks good.  Good catchers are tough to come by....my son is a pitcher and he throws a completely different game depending on the catcher behind the plate.  If he's comfortable with him, he'll throw any pitch in any situation....if not, he limits his pitch selection and it usually doesn't turn out well.

Good luck to your son....there are a ton of guys here who have been thru the recruiting process and are always glad to help

Honest feedback is that he's is nowhere near a 1.88. The best MLB catchers barely avg that. Legit awesome throws in the show are 1.8-ish. Definitely some below. Sanchez the other night was 1.83 from his knees.

If I see arc in the Cs throw like your son's, it's not very likely its sub-2.0. The throws on the video I got at 2.10 and 2.19 on my stopwatch, and those aren't live game reps trying to get a strike. While I'm not saying he couldn't possibly throw 1.88 in a very controlled environment, it's nowhere close to a realistic representation to a college coach for recruiting purposes and probably hurts more than it helps to list it that way. A HS catcher consistently around 2.0 will shut down a lot of running games. Sub-2.0 and only the elite guys will even try to run.

Do you have a velo on him you could post? That would help. If he's close to or over 90mph than 1.88 is more likely, it just doesn't appear that way in the video.

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh, as I don't mean it that way, just unbiased feedback from my perspective.

These are 1.8 pop times, two 2016 Catchers, ranked #1 and #2 nationally from the Midwest: 

Ben Rortvedt: https://www.perfectgame.org/Pl...ofile.aspx?ID=390319

Cooper Johnson: https://www.perfectgame.org/Pl...ofile.aspx?ID=375713

You should read the write ups and look at their video, and current college reports - Perspective.

Cooper is a kid from our area, we've seen him in action plenty of times.

ironhorse posted:

Honest feedback is that he's is nowhere near a 1.88. The best MLB catchers barely avg that. Legit awesome throws in the show are 1.8-ish. Definitely some below. Sanchez the other night was 1.83 from his knees.

If I see arc in the Cs throw like your son's, it's not very likely its sub-2.0. The throws on the video I got at 2.10 and 2.19 on my stopwatch, and those aren't live game reps trying to get a strike. While I'm not saying he couldn't possibly throw 1.88 in a very controlled environment, it's nowhere close to a realistic representation to a college coach for recruiting purposes and probably hurts more than it helps to list it that way. A HS catcher consistently around 2.0 will shut down a lot of running games. Sub-2.0 and only the elite guys will even try to run.

Do you have a velo on him you could post? That would help. If he's close to or over 90mph than 1.88 is more likely, it just doesn't appear that way in the video.

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh, as I don't mean it that way, just unbiased feedback from my perspective.

 

 

I think you meant 80 mph If he's close to or over  than 1.88 

c2019 posted:

ironhorse posted:

Honest feedback is that he's is nowhere near a 1.88. The best MLB catchers barely avg that. Legit awesome throws in the show are 1.8-ish. Definitely some below. Sanchez the other night was 1.83 from his knees.

If I see arc in the Cs throw like your son's, it's not very likely its sub-2.0. The throws on the video I got at 2.10 and 2.19 on my stopwatch, and those aren't live game reps trying to get a strike. While I'm not saying he couldn't possibly throw 1.88 in a very controlled environment, it's nowhere close to a realistic representation to a college coach for recruiting purposes and probably hurts more than it helps to list it that way. A HS catcher consistently around 2.0 will shut down a lot of running games. Sub-2.0 and only the elite guys will even try to run.

Do you have a velo on him you could post? That would help. If he's close to or over 90mph than 1.88 is more likely, it just doesn't appear that way in the video.

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh, as I don't mean it that way, just unbiased feedback from my perspective.

 

 

I think you meant 80 mph If he's close to or over  than 1.88 

Not really. With his mechanics an 80 mph arm aint getting to 1.88. Most guys who are consistently in the 1.88 range are 90mph guys, more or less. I think a mid-80s arm could get you a "best" POP time in that range, but 1.88 wouldn't be the norm with that arm strength. Again, there are obviously exceptions, but this is my experience around here.

Footwork and "mechanics" are 1/2 of the POP time, the other half is velo.

Worry about the velocity that's all that matters.  Coaches believe they can teach the rest.

2forU-  Bad advice.  If he does have a cannon they consider a project.  More likely if he can hit and has a strong arm they may move him.  

I didn't see a 1.88 either.  he had to jump up for the ball and automatically he is out of position and not prepared with foot work, etc.   I didn't want to disagree with the lady so I left it as, if he IS throwing a 1.88.....  Trying not to hurt feelings..lol     If you see a pop throw where the throwing little skims across the top of the mound and hits second base with out touching the ground, you are looking at a sub 2.00   You know it when you see it.  Damn thing looks like a rocket 4 feet off the ground that doesnt do much dipping at the end.   Fun to watch.

Buck eye-  Other than  the first block that was down the middle, your right.  The rest appeared off the plate and outside but in my opinion several of those should have been blocked.  Problem with his one knee approach isnt just the wide open 5 hole, but on the outside stuff (or inside) he cant turn his body to redirect the ball towards home plate and it also prevents him from really getting over top of the ball.   As a recruiter I would see that and then observe why I wasnt seeing any examples of blocks to his left?  It would make me wonder if he could get to those balls.  Again, not tending to be critical but these are important observations.  

I was also told recruiters prefer practice reps on their recruiting videos over game video.  Again, I am not a recruiter but I have been told that several places.

Cury-  If you look under the CLIPS section I actually have a small video of my 2020 blocking a few balls.  You can see both legs kick out and the catcher get over top (Make sure he buries his chin!).  There is a total of 4 balls directly in front of him.   That is the goal when you block.  Obviously not always doable but when your practicing, that is what you shoot for.   There was an article just out talking about the best catchers in the game TILL to this day spend hours working and perfecting their blocking.

Velocity is an easy disqualifier - simply the truth, you can have all the other intangibles or not, but if you do not have velocity, you won't get the opportunity.  And, the higher you go, the expectations is that you have velocity  and can manage the pitchers, frame and block to a higher level.  Velocity is king

Coaches are looking for potential, show arm strength and athletic ability.  Video showing him asking for help and then throwing it around are of little value as does  watching him jog to backup 1st base.. As another poster suggested shoot mostly from the 1st base side so the viewer can see the glove and hand work and zoom in, the viewer doesn't care what the pitcher etc are doing.  I would not show the kneeling throw downs between innings, that is just a waste of video tape and time and might convey the wrong message to some coaches ("too cool for school").  The throw downs need to be taken seriously, scouts do pay attention to the in-between innings throws.   I would also get rid of the pop up at home plate and add one that shows his athletic ability to chase one down.  More clips, shorter duration all in the runner ready position.

imho Tee work and wearing the hat backwards can be cut. 

I don't know if that's his school hat at the beginning but I'd go with a more neutral looking hat instead of something that might be an UoArizona hat.

Good luck.

I'd say throwing velocity AND obvious athleticism will come out on top. For example, a tubby, slow, poor technique catcher with a cannon arm might beg the question of why isn't he a pitcher (because he ain't a catcher)? But in general, superior velocity gets a first, second, and maybe a third look.

So, an unpolished catcher with questionable technique but a very strong arm and clear athleticism will likely get the nod (for college recruiting purposes) over a highly polished catcher who does everything right defensively, but has an average arm. The presumption is that the blocking, framing, and running the game can be taught. 

Of course, size, projection of added size, and hitting (especially for power) factor in immensely.

ironhorse posted:

c2019 posted:

ironhorse posted:

Honest feedback is that he's is nowhere near a 1.88. The best MLB catchers barely avg that. Legit awesome throws in the show are 1.8-ish. Definitely some below. Sanchez the other night was 1.83 from his knees.

If I see arc in the Cs throw like your son's, it's not very likely its sub-2.0. The throws on the video I got at 2.10 and 2.19 on my stopwatch, and those aren't live game reps trying to get a strike. While I'm not saying he couldn't possibly throw 1.88 in a very controlled environment, it's nowhere close to a realistic representation to a college coach for recruiting purposes and probably hurts more than it helps to list it that way. A HS catcher consistently around 2.0 will shut down a lot of running games. Sub-2.0 and only the elite guys will even try to run.

Do you have a velo on him you could post? That would help. If he's close to or over 90mph than 1.88 is more likely, it just doesn't appear that way in the video.

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh, as I don't mean it that way, just unbiased feedback from my perspective.

 

 

I think you meant 80 mph If he's close to or over  than 1.88 

Not really. With his mechanics an 80 mph arm aint getting to 1.88. Most guys who are consistently in the 1.88 range are 90mph guys, more or less. I think a mid-80s arm could get you a "best" POP time in that range, but 1.88 wouldn't be the norm with that arm strength. Again, there are obviously exceptions, but this is my experience around here.

Footwork and "mechanics" are 1/2 of the POP time, the other half is velo.

 

 

To your point of a 90 mph arm.  Cooper Johnson (above PG profile with 1.8 pop) routinely threw 90+ at our facility, game velo can be different, but capability is there.

I think that pointing out the importance of velocity is pointing out the obvious.  However, Gov mentioned Cooper Johnson who is a true freshman, shutdown catcher at Ole Miss this year.  He's their starting catcher and, at one point during the season, he had a .470 caught stealing percentage.  On Cooper's Perfect Game profile he was the number 3 catcher in the nation before he graduated from high school.  The profile indicates he had "consistent low 1.8 pop times on the bag, best defensive catcher in the class."  His best pop time was 1.81 and his highest velocity was 84 MPH.  You certainly don't have to touch 90 to be a shutdown catcher.

If you check Perfect Game showcases, the majority of the catchers are in the 70's and there is example after example of sub 2.0 pop times with mid to upper 70's velocities.  Good pop times are a result of good receiving skills, good footwork, good transfers, with a good/powerful load into a quick and accurate throw.  Although Velocity is god given, just because you have velocity doesn't mean that you will be able to do the rest of those things to consistently put the ball on the bag in less than 2.0. 

Although mechanics can be taught, if you don't have them, your a project.  If your polished with mid/late 70's velocity/sub 2.0 pop times, your a known quantity.  There are lots of examples on PG in that category that have committed D1.

Below is the 2016 PG National Showcase workout results:  If you sort the table by pop times, you'll see times from 2.1 to 1.78 and velocities from 71 to 86 MPH.  There are Commits to Vandy, Rice, Notre Dame, OSU, and Coastal Carolina on the list just to name a few.

The 2.1 pop time with a 71 MPH velocity committed to Coastal Carolina, the 2016 College World Series Champs.  Hmmm.

The second best pop time was 1.81; one of the players who achieved that time had a best velocity of 77 MPH.  His name is David Lamanna, and he committed to Notre Dame.

https://www.perfectgame.org/ev...ults.aspx?event=3645

Velocity is a MUST or you don't get the opportunity to C at any level higher than HS.   Once you get the opportunity, technique is what will separate the better C.  I highly doubt a "game" pop is 1.88. If you look at a PG Video of the best C, they lunge forward to go get the ball and stride to where their lead foot is probably over the plate to make the throw to who know  where it may end up.  In a game, the better C will receive the ball to not give up the potential strike and then throw to the bag.

Stealing bases in a game are determined by many variables such as pitchers release, wind up, type of pitch being thrown and are reasons why the best catcher only throws out 28-32 percent of stolen base attempts. The “Game Pop Time” is more important! The C with a 2.0 pop on the bag will use a combination of Velo, transfer and footwork and will be more successful throwing out runners.

IMO “Pop time” is an over rated statistic when evaluating a catcher’s skill set.  Is the "1.88" pop on the correct side of the bag or too high?  If the ball isn't at a position to have enough time to tag the runner what good is it getting it there quick?  If the guy with the 1.8 can’t find the bag he is no different than the 6.3s 60yd guy who can’t get on 1st to even steal 2nd.

Salvador Perez has a 1.91 pop time in games.  I take it with a grain of salt whenever a pop time better than that is performed by a HS kid in a Showcase

We sort of stole the thread from  the OP.  Apologies Curry!

IMO- He's a junior.  Short but solid built.  Needs work on his blocking technique. A good blocker can block and still have a shot a runner going off the ball in the dirt.  If he struggles blocking he has a more difficult road ahead.  Fielding percentage can be more misleading that a second baseman.  A ball that scoots under a catcher is a wild pitch and on the pitcher but my son, as a catcher, is going to wear that guilt on  his shoulders before anyone.  Its a passed ball pretty much if it hits his glove and pops out and a runner advances.  

Get cleaner video.  Non game video.  When blocking, focus on that.  When receiving...focus on that.  Throw downs should have some where its JUST him and his form and then from second showing the throw.  Recommend an impartial showcase or something where they take his pop time.  Some will use video and then use video itself as the timer to get an accurate measure.  

Hope that helps.