Pop time expectations

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Pop times are extremely important when evaluating catchers. Especially important are "game" pop times... Obviously there are other things that are very important, but scouts aren't going to quit timing catchers anytime soon.

GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I have said it before and I will say it again here and now----pop times are over rated--most, if not all, the pop times that are listed are done in a sterile situation--no batter--no base runner--

They key is good mechanics and accuracy, not the time---keep in mind that the catcher cannot get rid of the ball any quicker than the pitcher delivers it to him -- a 1.8 pop time for a catcher means nothing if the pitcher does a poor job of holding the runner on and is slow in his delivery to the plate.

Sure the strong arm and great pop times are nice but there is more to it than just that--as much as baseball is an individual performance sport it is still a team sport--


Bottom line, and this is from an old catcher--worry more about your defense,handling the pitcher and being the tesam quarterback---do this and all will be well

TR I couldn't agree more. My son was the starting varsity catcher as a sophpmore last year. We have never measured his pop time. He has always just thrown runners out, since he was 9 years old. Strong accurate throw, and get it there as fast as you can. If your handling your pitchers, using pick off moves, and throwing down to first to keep the runner close, you will get runners out. Question shouldn't be what is your pop time, it should be are you getting base stealers out.

If only that was the case when it comes to college recruiting. It is all these things and poptime, you better believe it. The difference of .05 seconds never mattered so much. High school - not so much, but out there in the real world, especially in CA, pop times matter. Why else do the scouts sit their with their stopwatches and write down every time? The catcher's job never ends, and he has to be a very dynamic, strong and relentless player, leader and thinker. Toughest defensive job on the field.

When evaluating a catcher and his ability to throw you can not take into account the things that are out of his control. The pitchers ability or lack of ability to hold runners. The speed of the runner or runners. The ability of the base stealers. Etc etc. What you are evaluating is the catchers ability to catch and throw to the bag. There are many hs catchers that are more than adequate at the hs level who will not be more than adequate at the college level. Its a total different game.

The pop time is a tool used to measure how quick the catcher can catch and deliver to the bag. This will not change regardless of the level of play. The field will be the same size the distance will be the same. A 2.2 that works in hs with pitchers who hold runners well , base runners who are not college level fast and or college level smart with leads , anticipation etc will not work as well at the college level as a kid who can throw 2.0 or below.

The pop time is what the catcher is measured on. It matters because it is what he is in control of.

What makes a catcher is playing time. Big bat to get in the line up than work on pop time. Thats what I have seen.

no lie,


drill

My son is a 16 year old, sophmore, catcher. His pop time was recorded as 2.17 at George Mason University last night. He varsity lettered as a freshman last year. He played the outfield, the catcher was a senior, and batted .454. He'll be back at catcher this year. He is consistently working out to increase his strength. Is he heading in the right direction? Any suggestions?

To be a catcher you need to be able to receive and block well before you have to worry about throwing. If you can't do those 2 things first then it does not matter how good you throw since you will never see a game from anywhere else but the bench.

I agree with kevins1---there is so much more to throwing our guys trying to steal second that just pop time---it starts with the pitcher and how he holds the unner on and how long it takes him going to the plate---and as kevins1 says if you cannot receive and block well you can have the greatest arm in the world and it won't matter--calling the right pitch on a steal is also critical

Too many people, especially Dads get hung up on pop times

quote:

Too many people, especially Dads get hung up on pop times

TR, I would have to agree with this, to an extent... However, I think there is very good reason for a catcher to take pop times seriously.

What the pitcher does has nothing to do with what a catchers true potential is. No one recruits or drafts a catcher based on how quickly his pitcher gets the ball to the plate.

Of course there are other things that are vitally important. But being able to get the ball to 2B in a quick enough time to throw out "next level" runners simply can not be ignored. And scouts are among those who do not ignore it! It's definitely one of the areas that a catcher should be concerned with and strive to improve.

PG

I am just saying that too much emphasis is put on pop time, expecially by parents--I don't say it should be ignored--just that it should be undertsood in, pop time, fits into the entire picture for a catcher

I played summer and fall ball in high school with a catcher who was a fairly high draft pick out of a high school program that typically generates a few draft picks a year (and has some big name alumni).

As an outsider looking in I would have said that this young man was drafted solely on his arm. He literally has the best arm I've ever seen on a catcher anywhere...as a 17 year old I heard a few scouts have his arm graded as a 70 on the MLB scale. However, I pitched to him for several years, and started to get a grasp and understanding of what made him one of the elite backstops in the country. I have always been somewhat of a "thinking" pitcher, a guy without the velocity to dominate a game and a necessity to rely on keeping hitters off balance. I have thrown to several catchers in the past that grew frustrated because of my constant shaking off of their signs. However, in the years that I threw to this young man, I never once shook him off. At first, it was simply because I bought into the hype and believed I should listen because he was supposed to be THAT good. But as I gradually got to know him better, I started thinking through at-bats with him, and never disagreed with his decisions. He always seemed to know the right pitch to throw, the right location to throw to. He always seemed to know when the other team was hitting and running or bunting or when a take sign was on. He always seemed to know when I was getting flustered or when I was getting into a rhythm and adjusted the speed of the game accordingly.

As a pitcher, he certainly made things a lot easier. Even though he'd been clocked in the 1.8 range and in the low-90s off the mound (mid-80's from behind the plate) there was much more to him than just his ability to throw the ball hard.

TRhit can attest to this young man as well. He played for him for several years.

JH,

By chance, is this who you're talking about?
Catcher

PG- Nope, same high school though. I'm a few years younger than Angel. He's another one with an outstanding arm though...I've thrown a few bullpens to him during the off-season and had a pretty sore glove hand after the sessions. He made his MLB debut last year and hopefully will be back up consistently in '10.

You guys got the kid I'm talking about at 1.94 and 82 to 2b I believe. Ranked a 9.5, '08

JH

You must be talking about Jean Carlos

Angel has been up even with his great arm he is having trouble with other aspects of his catching game

Angel is a career .316 MiLB hitter, including .360 at AA Huntsville in '08. Hopefully he settles in.

TR- I spoke to Jean a few days ago. He's now with the Angels and busy in Arizona. Says spring training workouts are tough but enjoying the weather a lot more than we are here.

Here JH, is this the guy...
Catcher 2

It's amazing how much talent has gone through that high school.

JH


Can you email/PM me Jean Carlos' contact info--I lost touch with him after he got drafted

Thanx

PG- Yes it is, and they have several top prospects this year as well. I had the pleasure of having the head coach as one of the coaches of my summer team, as well as with TRHit, throughout high school. He is a fabulous resource with a wealth of knowledge and quite the laundry list of alumni.

TR- I'll PM you his cell phone number, don't have an e-mail address for him or anything like that.

sometimes kids at such a young age put too much emphasis on pop times. when i was that age, i wanted to throw a 2.0 everytime, not realizing then that i should have been more worried about where my throw was going.

When i was a sophmore in high school I got clocked at a 1.8 at a UCF pitchers and catchers camp. I thanked the coach for having an itching trigger finger. My point is, pop times vary from who is on the clock just as much as the pitch that is being thrown, or the individual. Even in pro ball, we wuld sit in the dugout with two coaches and me on stop watches timing the opposing catcher's throw and have three different times.

Foot work and transition are the important things to learn young. As he ages and arm strength increases the pop time will be there.

I prefer tag time over pop time. If a catcher throws 2.0 on the bag and another throws 1.90 high or wrong side of the bad his tag time may be 2.1 and actually slower.

Here is a funny catcher story from this week. My son is a 1.95 ranch tag time and throw out 6 runners at second during the game and after the 3rd runner the baserunners were getting made at the coach. LOL I guess he was just hard headed.

I'm a freshman and have consistant pop times between 1.95 and 2.05.
As well as many high school catchers I know and have seen been clocket at the same times.

I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.

For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.

quote:

Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.

For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.

Absolutely!!! It's just simple math. Few kids in high school run under 3.5 seconds. So many people think a sub 2 in needed to throw out a high school runner. Your math shows why a sub 2.0 is not needed to throw out high school base stealers.

quote:

Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.

For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.

Pitcher's time to plate is, for a righty, from when front moves to catcher's glove pop????? What about a lefty????

I am an 8th grader and 13 playing up in the high school and my pop time is average 2.3. Is that good for my age?

quote:

Originally posted by slbaseballdad:

quote:

Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.

For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.

Pitcher's time to plate is, for a righty, from when front moves to catcher's glove pop????? What about a lefty????

Yes, from when front foot moves to time ball hits catchers mitt. Doesn't matter if it is lefty or righty pitcher.

My son has played baseball since he was 4 years old and has always mainly been a catcher. He just finished his Junior year in high school in June of 2011. He played HS varsity this spring and was NOT the starting catcher for about the first 8 games. After he caught a few games the starting catcher was moved to a different position and my son became the starting catcher for the rest of the season. He ended up being named to the All-Conference 1st Team as Catcher. At the beginning of his Junior year he was timed at a 2.20 pop time and was about 60 % or so accuracy. In his summer league (High School Level) he has improved his pop time, and accuracy drastically. He was timed last night in a varsity game as 2.04 and his accuracy is now about 98%. No one has even attempted to steal a base when he is catching for the last 9 games, except when there was a wild pitch. He don't allow many pass balls, about 6 the whole summer season. Question is: is this pretty good for his level/age? I am not really sure anymore where I need to work him. The goal is to get him to college baseball. So in his situation, being a senior next year, what would be the best thing to concentrate and work on for the rest of this year to get him noticed by some colleges next year while he is a senior?

Voyager -
Have you done anything to get him in front of college coaches yet? This should be a big recruiting time for him, and your focus should be on exposure.

This is the time when college coaches are making their commitments for the 2012 grads, so if your son wants to play in college, you should be making sure that one way or another he is playing in front of college coaches.

Voyager

Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.

quote:

Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:
Voyager

Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.

Not true at all. Of course you have to be able to hit to play professionally or in college, but that is not the most important factor. The catcher is still a position that is defense oriented. If you are a bad defensive catcher you don't have much of a shot to make it to the next level.

quote:

Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:
Voyager

Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.

In the many conversations I have had over the years with college coaches and MLB scouts, I would have to respectfully, but wholeheartedly, disagree with this statement.

A catcher who hits the crud out of the ball, but cannot field his position is called a third/first baseman. Most college coaches and pro scouts see a catcher's ability to hit as the icing on the cake. Yes, it will certainly play a role in that player's marketability to both a college and a pro organization, but a catcher who blocks everything, receives well and throws efficiently will always get a look, despite a sub-standard bat.

Voyager,

A JR with a 2.04 "game" throw is someone that college coaches will want to give a shot. People have this idea that they need to break two-seconds to have any shot at playing decent college baseball and that is simply not true (as well as the misconception that the "decent baseball" label is reserved for D1 schools. Plenty of terrific D2 and D3 schools around the country).

A consistent 2.0-2.1 game throw with accuracy puts the weight on the pitcher's shoulders. When evaluating a high school catcher, a smart college coach won't care about the out/safe call, just the skills that were displayed by the catcher. If your son is consistently in that two-second range, blocks well, is athletic and is anything more than anemic with the bat, he should get a chance to play college baseball.

Here's the one thing that might be an issue concerning your son's exposure. If he is going into his SR year and displays the skills that are required to play college baseball, he should have received some type of contact from a college coach. Most coaches are currently in the process of finalizing their Fall-of-2012 recruiting class.

There are certainly reasons why a catcher might be overlooked by college coaches, even when that catcher has the ability to play at that level. Ihe most important thing right now is to make sure that the schools he is looking at are looking at him. As soon as you can, sit down with your son and start discussing the schools he is interested in and then start contacting the coaches through the school's website. Sending them a skills video is something that I would highly recommend if those coaches have never seen him behind the plate. If you would like to know how one of those videos should be formatted, here is a link that goes into explicit detail on what needs to be in that video and how it should be shot http://www.catchingcamp.com/bl...-video-for-catchers/

Also, from personal experience, please let me recommend that you make sure that the college selection process is centered around his education and his overall comfort at that particular school without baseball. You never know what can happen, and the last thing you want is for your son to be stuck at a school, not playing baseball, and generally uninterested in pursuing a degree. College baseball is great, but remember what college is all about.

I stand by hitting as being the most significant factor that will get the attention of a coach or scout. I am sure many of you have seen the post at http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...751037862#8751037862 where a former player development and college coach describes what he is looking for in a catcher.

My son's experience as a catcher was that no one was interested until he showed he could hit and he has always had pretty good catching skills and a plus arm.

The catchers that couldn't hit were bullpen catchers at most places my son has played.

Sure, not all coaches evaluate the same, however a big bat gets everyone's attention.

I was at PG 16u this week..my kid is a freshman..he threw a fast runner out with a 2.18 right on the bag. (according to scout) I was told by his coach the scout said for his age and size its was about where he should be and they would take that all day long but in college it needs to get at least to a 2.0 max

PS in regards to big hitting catchers. Many colleges will take a big hitting catcher with adequate skills as a 3rd catcher who they can DH or give some crucial at bats to..IE victor martinez type. But a big hitting catcher who cant field will give up more runs than they produce

Hey I was just wondering if a 2.2-2.3 pop time for a 13 year old catcher good? I'm 5'2 with a better than average arm for my size but usually I have to one hop it right on the bag. Any tips for increasing arm strength other then long toss which I do a ton

There are plenty of opinions posted on this thread and others in this forum which provide some benchmarking of pop times.

It needs to be mentioned that your grades will impact your options.

You can sign up at Perfect Game and see the pop times of plenty of catchers. You can see where they ended up playing. If there's a college you are interested in, get the names of their catchers and look them up, see how they did when they were in high school.

You can also ask individual coaches what they look for in a catcher. As is obvious from the opinions on this thread, they will not all have the same answer.

My advice is just do the best you can, work hard, follow the advice on this forum about getting exposure, and see where it takes you.

I turn 16 in a few months and throw a 1.87 at 81mph consistantly in game situations. As a freshman last year i was throwing a 1.98 at 77mph consistently. All my strength and speed came after my growth spirt. The mindset I have everyday when I train is how bad do I want it? It all comes down to the 10,000 hours of hard work you put into this game to be in the top 1% in this country/world to have a chance to make it to the big leagues. I do something everyday, whether it is playing catch, hitting, or strength and conditioning it all comes down to how bad you want it.

Well this kinda sounds like me. Except I'm not getting any D1 looks. Right now I got it down to a best 2.05 and I got clocked at 75 MPH at Baseball Factory. Wha else should I do? Trying to get it to a 2.0 consistently before high school season and then below.

What year are you?