What is the expected pop time for freshmen in high school and beyond?
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There is no expected and it is very individual. It can be worked on over and over. There may be averages for high school frosh, but I am not sure if any good data on it exists.
Work on good footwork and training the body athletically over the next few years and then hope for that 2.0 benchmark as a senior.
I am working with a 15 year old that threw 3 1.95's today, 1 during a game situation and the other 2 between innings. On the steal attempt a perfect throw still didn't get the runner as he had a huge jump on the pitcher.
Work on good footwork and training the body athletically over the next few years and then hope for that 2.0 benchmark as a senior.
I am working with a 15 year old that threw 3 1.95's today, 1 during a game situation and the other 2 between innings. On the steal attempt a perfect throw still didn't get the runner as he had a huge jump on the pitcher.
For a Freshman a good target to shoot for is to break the 2.4 mark.
The average game pop for a good high school varsity catcher is 2.20-2.25.
Above average is 2.10-2.19
Excellent for a HS varsity catcher would be a game throw 2.0-2.09
The key to remember is that the catchers throw is only the 2nd half of the equation. If your pitcher is 1.7 to the plate, and your catcher is 2.3, that's 4.0 combined. That will beat many baserunners to 2nd.
I have so many coaches contacting me telling me their catchers are not effective throwing out runners but when I ask what their pitchers time to the plate is they have no idea, We need to be aware of both times.
Catchers take to much of the blame for successfull basestealing.
I had one 14 yr old student a few years ago that could throw game throws 1.90 and faster. He caught on a middle school team. He only threw out about 20% of the base stealers. The pitchers many times never even looked over to first. The leads were and jump were huge. It's not just about the catchers throw.
ONE MORE STANDARD FOR YOU.
Another good standard for kids to shoot for is for the kids 13yr old, first year on the big field. Most have been throwing 85ft, now 127.
Their goal should be to finish spring season of 13 yr ball breaking 3.0
The average game pop for a good high school varsity catcher is 2.20-2.25.
Above average is 2.10-2.19
Excellent for a HS varsity catcher would be a game throw 2.0-2.09
The key to remember is that the catchers throw is only the 2nd half of the equation. If your pitcher is 1.7 to the plate, and your catcher is 2.3, that's 4.0 combined. That will beat many baserunners to 2nd.
I have so many coaches contacting me telling me their catchers are not effective throwing out runners but when I ask what their pitchers time to the plate is they have no idea, We need to be aware of both times.
Catchers take to much of the blame for successfull basestealing.
I had one 14 yr old student a few years ago that could throw game throws 1.90 and faster. He caught on a middle school team. He only threw out about 20% of the base stealers. The pitchers many times never even looked over to first. The leads were and jump were huge. It's not just about the catchers throw.
ONE MORE STANDARD FOR YOU.
Another good standard for kids to shoot for is for the kids 13yr old, first year on the big field. Most have been throwing 85ft, now 127.
Their goal should be to finish spring season of 13 yr ball breaking 3.0
Catching coach great post and I have to agree 100%.
Average major league pop time is 2.0 on the bag. The key idea in that sentence is on the bag.
I agree with Catch Coach....but would add...knowing when to and when not to (a tactical thought process) is critical...I have struggled all season with a 15 yo who was taught when in doubt throw him out...he has launched more baseballs into right and left field trying to throw out a runner...Im a catcher all my life and I cannot break this habit...he was taught from 6 up to throw it...cant even count how many runs it has cost us...sometimes as a catcher you have to just eat it when the runner is there.
Yea, whenever anybody throws to a base when the runner is easily safe- the expression my coahc ALWAYS says: THATS NOT BASEBALL, FELLAS!!
scouts will always look for kids that throw under 2.0. dont tell a freshman catcher that he is doing well throwing a 2.4, because that is not a good time. i suggest find a professional instructor to work with the younger kids. reason being, there are kids that have worked with instructors and who are throwing at that mark or below even as freshman. i have a kid right now who just started his freshman year of hs and has already attended a WWBA 18u tournament and has been clocked as low as 1.94
It is a good throw if he is doing the best he can. Legit 2.4 for a freshman no problem with that. Now get some good instruction , work hard on your mechanics , continue to work on your arm strength ( you will gain some arm strength naturally by getting older and stronger ) and understand that it will not happen overnight. 1.9 pops for youngs kids are the exception not the rule. Dont measure yourself against the exceptional arm right now. Work to get it at 2.2. Then work on getting that clean accurate 2.0. When your a senior if your throwing that good accurate 2.0 1.9 no one is going to care that you were a 2.4 as a freshman. One things for sure the freshman with a 1.9 is not going to drop 5 tenths off his pop. He is going to be lucky to get it down in the 1.8 range. There is a ceiling folks. My boy was a 2.06 clean and accurate at PG event his freshman year. He is a Jr now and is a consistent all day long 2.0 game pop very accurate. He throws 1.9 all day non game pops and has hit some 1.8's. I really dont care what he can do non game. I have had several freshman come in that were 2.4 2.5 and left solid 2.0 2.1 guys. Several have played in college. Good Luck to you. Get you a good instructor that can work with you one on one in the off season. And if you dont have a HS coach with catching experience use the instructor during the season. Keep working hard you will be fine. Its not where you start the race its where you finish it. GOOD LUCK
great point! if he is at 2.4, work to get to 2.2.. this can be achieved by letting the ball get deeper instead of extending the arm to catch it first.... there are numerous ways to shave off .2 sec off your time
A big problem I see with kids is they chase the baseball. They see the runner going and they reach out for the ball. They think by reaching out for it they are going to get the ball faster and be able to get rid of it faster. Nothing could be further from the truth. The ball travels faster than you can. Let it get deep. Also by chaseing the ball you get off balance and alot of these throws are not accurate at all.
Coach May,
You and I have agreed on this topic many times. An accurate 2.4 in a game is a good time for a Freshman. Many of these kids are only 14-15 years old, growth spurt may have not always started for all of them even at that age.
For 99% of the HS catchers out there a goal of 2.2 in a game by the time they are Seniors will be a good, realistic target.
You and I have agreed on this topic many times. An accurate 2.4 in a game is a good time for a Freshman. Many of these kids are only 14-15 years old, growth spurt may have not always started for all of them even at that age.
For 99% of the HS catchers out there a goal of 2.2 in a game by the time they are Seniors will be a good, realistic target.
Just wondering what is a good radar time down to second.
Don't know if they differ from d-1 down but lets say for a top senior catcher looking for a d-1 school.
Don't know if they differ from d-1 down but lets say for a top senior catcher looking for a d-1 school.
Southside, an accurate 2.0 game pop time with a velocity of 75+ MPH would get a lot of looks for D1, especially if he can hit.
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
80+ would be outstanding.
quote:
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
Rob, just curious if you ever ran into one heckuva ballplayer by the name of Bad, Bad Leroy Brown?
Originally posted by Catching Coach:
If your pitcher is 1.7 to the plate, and your catcher is 2.3, that's 4.0 combined. That will beat many baserunners to 2nd.
At what level? I would think that combo is very slow for Varsity.
If your pitcher is 1.7 to the plate, and your catcher is 2.3, that's 4.0 combined. That will beat many baserunners to 2nd.
At what level? I would think that combo is very slow for Varsity.
Krak:
Actually, yes. I knew Leroy quite well. Minor correction, though. It is a little known fact that Bad, Bad Leroy Brown was actually a female. I dated her for months.
Never felt safer on the South Side of Chicago. She owned the place.
Actually, yes. I knew Leroy quite well. Minor correction, though. It is a little known fact that Bad, Bad Leroy Brown was actually a female. I dated her for months.
Never felt safer on the South Side of Chicago. She owned the place.
There are so many factors in play here. As a catcher all you can do is catch it and throw it. The speed of the runner, the lead of the runner, the condition of the field ie wet dirt, loose dirt, hard dirt, the type of jump the runner gets, how well the pitcher holds the runner, how long it takes the pitcher to get rid of it, the type of pitch curve ball change up fastball, the location of the pitch inside and up outside and up down and in away and up etc etc etc. These are all factors that will determine wether or not the runner is hosed or not. The only thing you can actually controll is how you recieve it and how you get rid of it. One thing for sure is an accurate throw will give you a chance. You want to work on getting rid of it quick and accurately and with as much on it as you can and still accomplish the first two goals. Ive seen kids hosed on 2.3's and I have seen kids safe on 2.0's. Catchers will always be blamed by the fans for not throwing out runners. And they will always get the credit when they throw someone out. The fact is it is a combination of the pitcher and catcher working together as a team. Only worry about what you can controll.
I was at a local showcase today.I timed the catchers from the bleachers kinda for something to do.There were 7 there,& all were Sophomores,Juniors,or Seniors.The times ranged from 2.05-2.4.Some looked descent,but none really caught my eye as a "standout".I think if you can stay below 2.1 & be consistently accurate with your throws,you have a shot to play at the next level.
quote:I think if you can stay below 2.1 & be consistently accurate with your throws,you have a shot to play at the next level.
Exactly! What many will time is not pop-to-pop, but pop-to-tag. Emphasis is now on accuracy. I'll take a 2.1 on the bag rather than 1.9 high and on the shortstop side of the bag.
Hi, I am am entering my junior season coming out of southern ohio. I have always had a decent arm and am throwing about a 2.0 flat. Blocking has been a strength. Is a 2.0 flat good enough to get looks and if so how can I go about getting there. College baseball is the dream.
My son last year as a 14 year old was hitting consistent 2.0 pop times. He is now a freshman, but has not been timed lately on his pop time. To be a catcher that catches the eyes of scouts for college, how much better of a pop time should he try to work on?
Aside from the POP time issue for catchers...what is considered an exceptional batting average for a Varsity High School catcher? I mean, if the defensive side of the game is strong, what kind of batting average needs to be maintained to get some college scouts interested?
That's impressive...pop times of 2.0 consistenly at 14 are extremely rare...
As far as batting average, I don't think most coaches care much about that at all. The level of competition is so different from one high school to the next that there is really no way to get a sense of the context in which a guy put up whatever batting average...
As far as batting average, I don't think most coaches care much about that at all. The level of competition is so different from one high school to the next that there is really no way to get a sense of the context in which a guy put up whatever batting average...
Good post Emanski. A better question would be what type of swing does he have? Can he hit? Does he hit for power? What has he done against the quality pitching he has faced? Is he a big kid that does not run extremely well? If so does he hit for power? Is he more of an athletic kid who can run? If so can he hit?
Your batting average would only be a concern if it was very low. And it would only generate interest if it was very high. But in the end what you show when they are watching will be the most important factor.
Your batting average would only be a concern if it was very low. And it would only generate interest if it was very high. But in the end what you show when they are watching will be the most important factor.
I would love to hear a pop-time info update from LPBaseball21. I would assume he had a young catcher back in 2006 and he was wanting to evalaute his potential. But, it appears he quit posting sometime in 2008. It's very interesting to read old posts and then follow-up on the poster 2-3 years later to see how their posts have changed as they become more informed, etc. Just a thought.... GED10DaD
Emanski and Coach May...
Thank you for the replies. He is a big kid for 15, 5'10" at 170 lbs, and is extremely athletic with very quick feet. He does have a very quick swing and does hit well and with power. I am glad to hear there is not SO MUCH pressure for his batting average to be extremely high.
Thank you for the replies. He is a big kid for 15, 5'10" at 170 lbs, and is extremely athletic with very quick feet. He does have a very quick swing and does hit well and with power. I am glad to hear there is not SO MUCH pressure for his batting average to be extremely high.
I'll give you my 2 cents on my 2010 grad. As a freshman he was throwing 2.4 to 2.6 game time pops when giving the chance to cheat 2.3 to 2.4. Every year sense then he has dropped .2 tenths off the origanal time, now going into the senior season he is a solid 2 sec guy at 82 to 83 mph with accurate throws to 2b if he does not have a batter in the box 1.9's. He has received good intrest from some d1's and alot of d2 schools and is waiting until after this season to make a decision.
Pop times will vary greatly on who is holding the stop watch. I have been taught to start the time when the ball touches the front the plate and stop when it reaches infielders glove acording to some scouts.
Pop times will vary greatly on who is holding the stop watch. I have been taught to start the time when the ball touches the front the plate and stop when it reaches infielders glove acording to some scouts.
I have said it before and I will say it again here and now----pop times are over rated--most, if not all, the pop times that are listed are done in a sterile situation--no batter--no base runner--
They key is good mechanics and accuracy, not the time---keep in mind that the catcher cannot get rid of the ball any quicker than the pitcher delivers it to him -- a 1.8 pop time for a catcher means nothing if the pitcher does a poor job of holding the runner on and is slow in his delivery to the plate.
Sure the strong arm and great pop times are nice but there is more to it than just that--as much as baseball is an individual performance sport it is still a team sport--
Bottom line, and this is from an old catcher--worry more about your defense,handling the pitcher and being the tesam quarterback---do this and all will be well
They key is good mechanics and accuracy, not the time---keep in mind that the catcher cannot get rid of the ball any quicker than the pitcher delivers it to him -- a 1.8 pop time for a catcher means nothing if the pitcher does a poor job of holding the runner on and is slow in his delivery to the plate.
Sure the strong arm and great pop times are nice but there is more to it than just that--as much as baseball is an individual performance sport it is still a team sport--
Bottom line, and this is from an old catcher--worry more about your defense,handling the pitcher and being the tesam quarterback---do this and all will be well
quote:now going into the senior season he is a solid 2 sec guy at 82 to 83 mph with accurate throws to 2b if he does not have a batter in the box 1.9's. He has received good interest from some d1's and alot of d2 schools and is waiting until after this season to make a decision.
If he is throwing 82/83 I am not surprised he is getting D1 looks.
I agree with you 1000 percent Mr Hit but I have never seen a college scout with out his stop watch. The bad thing is they only ever get the toss down between innings so really not accurate (cheating)they don't run on him like they use to. Thank you for insight I do follow your post.
Pop to pop. When the ball pops the glove and then when the ball pops the glove. Being good at this requires experience at doing it and not having a vested interest in who is throwing it down. Anticipated the ball popping the glove and starting the watch on pop and then doing the same thing on the other end of the throw. One tenth of a miss on both ends and you go from a 2.2 to a 2.0 or a 2.0 to a 1.8. If you do it enough with enough different kids over a long period of time you can pretty much put down the stop watch and come pretty darn close just by watching the catch transfer and line of the throw.
Its very obvious when you go to a work out or showcase who is in the 2.0 and below club and who is not and you dont need a stop watch to see it. Its obvious. I can tell you this the amount of kids reported to throw 2.0 and below is about the same as the pitchers reported to throw 90 and above.
Its very obvious when you go to a work out or showcase who is in the 2.0 and below club and who is not and you dont need a stop watch to see it. Its obvious. I can tell you this the amount of kids reported to throw 2.0 and below is about the same as the pitchers reported to throw 90 and above.
So, how is the best way to evaluate catchers? Isn't a pop-time a valuable piece of info, coupled with other information gathered thru due-diligence? I will agree it does not stand alone, but IMO it is a good part of the foundation of the evaluation.quote:I can tell you this... the amount of kids reported to throw 2.0 and below is about the same as the pitchers reported to throw 90 and above.
GED10DaD
I have always liked the programs that put a radar gun on the throw then rate the mechanics out to give it a score, good mechanics weaker arm lesser score so so mechanics strong arm means room for improvement, I have only seen a couple of programs due this so I may be wrong, but the programs I seen due this are some of the better D1’s around. Once again I am sure there are a lot variables to this. My son is very thin and I think the colleges are worried about durability in the long haul, I have been asked a couple of times when I filled out so it makes me wonder, makes me wonder if I should lose some weight.
Are game #4 times the same as game #88. That's why they keep times recorded,which catchers are gonna continue to throw guys out late in the season? I agree that there is alot to consider, if your pitcher is longer than 1.4 to the plate the chances of throwing anyone out decreases,add to that pitch&location,your asking for the impossible.Butt I have seen the impossible possible,and a thing of beauty to behold.First baseman yells "runner" pitcher throws low & inside shortstop goes to the bag, catcher digs it out of the dirt, brushes past the batter and fires a p**s missle to the bag, ss gloves it applies the tag and the home team comes in to hit.Yes, catchers are required to control the game and throwing out 35% of runners is part of that.Imop think working with the pitching staff well is the most important skill a catcher develops,IF he can catch.
My point is I do alot of showcase events where catchers are timed. I go to alot of showcase events and time them myself. I have coached for many years in hs and put the watch on kids every game. I scout and always get some pop times. If I had a nickle for everytime I heard a kid was a consistent 2.0 and I saw him and he was 2.15 to 2.2 I would have heck of stash of nickles.
The same for pitchers that you are told hit 90 but really hit 84. Guys that consistently and accurately throw 2.0 and below in game situations without cheating , while still doing their primary job are as rare as guys that can throw 90. What I evaluate when I am watching catchers throwing is arm strength from the catchers posistion , footwork , transfer , ability to receive and ability to throw accurately to the bag , carry through the bag.
When you see a kid that knows how to properly receive it and does , has good footwork , transfer and then the arm strength from the posistion the pop time is always there. The more arm strength a kid has the margin for error. The less arm strength the less margin for error. Arm strength is the one thing a coach can not teach your kid. Work on it and work on your mechanics behind the plate. You are not evaluated on your ability to hold runners , the speed of the runner etc. You are evaluated on what you can control.
The same for pitchers that you are told hit 90 but really hit 84. Guys that consistently and accurately throw 2.0 and below in game situations without cheating , while still doing their primary job are as rare as guys that can throw 90. What I evaluate when I am watching catchers throwing is arm strength from the catchers posistion , footwork , transfer , ability to receive and ability to throw accurately to the bag , carry through the bag.
When you see a kid that knows how to properly receive it and does , has good footwork , transfer and then the arm strength from the posistion the pop time is always there. The more arm strength a kid has the margin for error. The less arm strength the less margin for error. Arm strength is the one thing a coach can not teach your kid. Work on it and work on your mechanics behind the plate. You are not evaluated on your ability to hold runners , the speed of the runner etc. You are evaluated on what you can control.
Pop times are extremely important when evaluating catchers. Especially important are "game" pop times.
The pop time is the result of all the other things. Arm strength, transfer, footwork, etc.
Same pitch location and selection. Who would you give the money to?
Catcher A - pop time 2.35 and nipped the slow runner trying to steal 2B. Stat shows Caught Stealing!
Catcher B - pop time 1.90 just missed the fast runner stealing 2B. Stat shows Stolen Base!
What the pitcher does can effect the results, but it doesn't change which catcher has the most ability.
Obviously there are other things that are very important, but scouts aren't going to quit timing catchers anytime soon.
The pop time is the result of all the other things. Arm strength, transfer, footwork, etc.
Same pitch location and selection. Who would you give the money to?
Catcher A - pop time 2.35 and nipped the slow runner trying to steal 2B. Stat shows Caught Stealing!
Catcher B - pop time 1.90 just missed the fast runner stealing 2B. Stat shows Stolen Base!
What the pitcher does can effect the results, but it doesn't change which catcher has the most ability.
Obviously there are other things that are very important, but scouts aren't going to quit timing catchers anytime soon.
PG, with that being said about the pitchers. What do scouts (or do they) look at when evaluating pitchers in the stretch, i.e. time to plate times, etc?
YGD,
As important as that is, it would be considered more of a "polish" thing rather than a talent thing.
What counts the most is the pitch, not how long it takes to get rid of it. Maintaining velocity out of the stretch would be more important from a scouting perspectve. Teaching someone to be quicker to the plate can happen later. However, there are certain deliveries that make being quick to the plate more difficult. That said, someone who can maintain their stuff while using a slide step is something that will stand out.
As important as that is, it would be considered more of a "polish" thing rather than a talent thing.
What counts the most is the pitch, not how long it takes to get rid of it. Maintaining velocity out of the stretch would be more important from a scouting perspectve. Teaching someone to be quicker to the plate can happen later. However, there are certain deliveries that make being quick to the plate more difficult. That said, someone who can maintain their stuff while using a slide step is something that will stand out.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Pop times are extremely important when evaluating catchers. Especially important are "game" pop times... Obviously there are other things that are very important, but scouts aren't going to quit timing catchers anytime soon.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I have said it before and I will say it again here and now----pop times are over rated--most, if not all, the pop times that are listed are done in a sterile situation--no batter--no base runner--
They key is good mechanics and accuracy, not the time---keep in mind that the catcher cannot get rid of the ball any quicker than the pitcher delivers it to him -- a 1.8 pop time for a catcher means nothing if the pitcher does a poor job of holding the runner on and is slow in his delivery to the plate.
Sure the strong arm and great pop times are nice but there is more to it than just that--as much as baseball is an individual performance sport it is still a team sport--
Bottom line, and this is from an old catcher--worry more about your defense,handling the pitcher and being the tesam quarterback---do this and all will be well
TR I couldn't agree more. My son was the starting varsity catcher as a sophpmore last year. We have never measured his pop time. He has always just thrown runners out, since he was 9 years old. Strong accurate throw, and get it there as fast as you can. If your handling your pitchers, using pick off moves, and throwing down to first to keep the runner close, you will get runners out. Question shouldn't be what is your pop time, it should be are you getting base stealers out.
If only that was the case when it comes to college recruiting. It is all these things and poptime, you better believe it. The difference of .05 seconds never mattered so much. High school - not so much, but out there in the real world, especially in CA, pop times matter. Why else do the scouts sit their with their stopwatches and write down every time? The catcher's job never ends, and he has to be a very dynamic, strong and relentless player, leader and thinker. Toughest defensive job on the field.
When evaluating a catcher and his ability to throw you can not take into account the things that are out of his control. The pitchers ability or lack of ability to hold runners. The speed of the runner or runners. The ability of the base stealers. Etc etc. What you are evaluating is the catchers ability to catch and throw to the bag. There are many hs catchers that are more than adequate at the hs level who will not be more than adequate at the college level. Its a total different game.
The pop time is a tool used to measure how quick the catcher can catch and deliver to the bag. This will not change regardless of the level of play. The field will be the same size the distance will be the same. A 2.2 that works in hs with pitchers who hold runners well , base runners who are not college level fast and or college level smart with leads , anticipation etc will not work as well at the college level as a kid who can throw 2.0 or below.
The pop time is what the catcher is measured on. It matters because it is what he is in control of.
The pop time is a tool used to measure how quick the catcher can catch and deliver to the bag. This will not change regardless of the level of play. The field will be the same size the distance will be the same. A 2.2 that works in hs with pitchers who hold runners well , base runners who are not college level fast and or college level smart with leads , anticipation etc will not work as well at the college level as a kid who can throw 2.0 or below.
The pop time is what the catcher is measured on. It matters because it is what he is in control of.
What makes a catcher is playing time. Big bat to get in the line up than work on pop time. Thats what I have seen.
no lie,
drill
no lie,
drill
My son is a 16 year old, sophmore, catcher. His pop time was recorded as 2.17 at George Mason University last night. He varsity lettered as a freshman last year. He played the outfield, the catcher was a senior, and batted .454. He'll be back at catcher this year. He is consistently working out to increase his strength. Is he heading in the right direction? Any suggestions?
To be a catcher you need to be able to receive and block well before you have to worry about throwing. If you can't do those 2 things first then it does not matter how good you throw since you will never see a game from anywhere else but the bench.
I agree with kevins1---there is so much more to throwing our guys trying to steal second that just pop time---it starts with the pitcher and how he holds the unner on and how long it takes him going to the plate---and as kevins1 says if you cannot receive and block well you can have the greatest arm in the world and it won't matter--calling the right pitch on a steal is also critical
Too many people, especially Dads get hung up on pop times
Too many people, especially Dads get hung up on pop times
quote:Too many people, especially Dads get hung up on pop times
TR, I would have to agree with this, to an extent... However, I think there is very good reason for a catcher to take pop times seriously.
What the pitcher does has nothing to do with what a catchers true potential is. No one recruits or drafts a catcher based on how quickly his pitcher gets the ball to the plate.
Of course there are other things that are vitally important. But being able to get the ball to 2B in a quick enough time to throw out "next level" runners simply can not be ignored. And scouts are among those who do not ignore it! It's definitely one of the areas that a catcher should be concerned with and strive to improve.
PG
I am just saying that too much emphasis is put on pop time, expecially by parents--I don't say it should be ignored--just that it should be undertsood in, pop time, fits into the entire picture for a catcher
I am just saying that too much emphasis is put on pop time, expecially by parents--I don't say it should be ignored--just that it should be undertsood in, pop time, fits into the entire picture for a catcher
I played summer and fall ball in high school with a catcher who was a fairly high draft pick out of a high school program that typically generates a few draft picks a year (and has some big name alumni).
As an outsider looking in I would have said that this young man was drafted solely on his arm. He literally has the best arm I've ever seen on a catcher anywhere...as a 17 year old I heard a few scouts have his arm graded as a 70 on the MLB scale. However, I pitched to him for several years, and started to get a grasp and understanding of what made him one of the elite backstops in the country. I have always been somewhat of a "thinking" pitcher, a guy without the velocity to dominate a game and a necessity to rely on keeping hitters off balance. I have thrown to several catchers in the past that grew frustrated because of my constant shaking off of their signs. However, in the years that I threw to this young man, I never once shook him off. At first, it was simply because I bought into the hype and believed I should listen because he was supposed to be THAT good. But as I gradually got to know him better, I started thinking through at-bats with him, and never disagreed with his decisions. He always seemed to know the right pitch to throw, the right location to throw to. He always seemed to know when the other team was hitting and running or bunting or when a take sign was on. He always seemed to know when I was getting flustered or when I was getting into a rhythm and adjusted the speed of the game accordingly.
As a pitcher, he certainly made things a lot easier. Even though he'd been clocked in the 1.8 range and in the low-90s off the mound (mid-80's from behind the plate) there was much more to him than just his ability to throw the ball hard.
TRhit can attest to this young man as well. He played for him for several years.
As an outsider looking in I would have said that this young man was drafted solely on his arm. He literally has the best arm I've ever seen on a catcher anywhere...as a 17 year old I heard a few scouts have his arm graded as a 70 on the MLB scale. However, I pitched to him for several years, and started to get a grasp and understanding of what made him one of the elite backstops in the country. I have always been somewhat of a "thinking" pitcher, a guy without the velocity to dominate a game and a necessity to rely on keeping hitters off balance. I have thrown to several catchers in the past that grew frustrated because of my constant shaking off of their signs. However, in the years that I threw to this young man, I never once shook him off. At first, it was simply because I bought into the hype and believed I should listen because he was supposed to be THAT good. But as I gradually got to know him better, I started thinking through at-bats with him, and never disagreed with his decisions. He always seemed to know the right pitch to throw, the right location to throw to. He always seemed to know when the other team was hitting and running or bunting or when a take sign was on. He always seemed to know when I was getting flustered or when I was getting into a rhythm and adjusted the speed of the game accordingly.
As a pitcher, he certainly made things a lot easier. Even though he'd been clocked in the 1.8 range and in the low-90s off the mound (mid-80's from behind the plate) there was much more to him than just his ability to throw the ball hard.
TRhit can attest to this young man as well. He played for him for several years.
PG- Nope, same high school though. I'm a few years younger than Angel. He's another one with an outstanding arm though...I've thrown a few bullpens to him during the off-season and had a pretty sore glove hand after the sessions. He made his MLB debut last year and hopefully will be back up consistently in '10.
You guys got the kid I'm talking about at 1.94 and 82 to 2b I believe. Ranked a 9.5, '08
You guys got the kid I'm talking about at 1.94 and 82 to 2b I believe. Ranked a 9.5, '08
JH
You must be talking about Jean Carlos
Angel has been up even with his great arm he is having trouble with other aspects of his catching game
You must be talking about Jean Carlos
Angel has been up even with his great arm he is having trouble with other aspects of his catching game
Angel is a career .316 MiLB hitter, including .360 at AA Huntsville in '08. Hopefully he settles in.
TR- I spoke to Jean a few days ago. He's now with the Angels and busy in Arizona. Says spring training workouts are tough but enjoying the weather a lot more than we are here.
TR- I spoke to Jean a few days ago. He's now with the Angels and busy in Arizona. Says spring training workouts are tough but enjoying the weather a lot more than we are here.
Here JH, is this the guy...
Catcher 2
Catcher 2
It's amazing how much talent has gone through that high school.
JH
Can you email/PM me Jean Carlos' contact info--I lost touch with him after he got drafted
Thanx
Can you email/PM me Jean Carlos' contact info--I lost touch with him after he got drafted
Thanx
PG- Yes it is, and they have several top prospects this year as well. I had the pleasure of having the head coach as one of the coaches of my summer team, as well as with TRHit, throughout high school. He is a fabulous resource with a wealth of knowledge and quite the laundry list of alumni.
TR- I'll PM you his cell phone number, don't have an e-mail address for him or anything like that.
TR- I'll PM you his cell phone number, don't have an e-mail address for him or anything like that.
sometimes kids at such a young age put too much emphasis on pop times. when i was that age, i wanted to throw a 2.0 everytime, not realizing then that i should have been more worried about where my throw was going.
When i was a sophmore in high school I got clocked at a 1.8 at a UCF pitchers and catchers camp. I thanked the coach for having an itching trigger finger. My point is, pop times vary from who is on the clock just as much as the pitch that is being thrown, or the individual. Even in pro ball, we wuld sit in the dugout with two coaches and me on stop watches timing the opposing catcher's throw and have three different times.
When i was a sophmore in high school I got clocked at a 1.8 at a UCF pitchers and catchers camp. I thanked the coach for having an itching trigger finger. My point is, pop times vary from who is on the clock just as much as the pitch that is being thrown, or the individual. Even in pro ball, we wuld sit in the dugout with two coaches and me on stop watches timing the opposing catcher's throw and have three different times.
Foot work and transition are the important things to learn young. As he ages and arm strength increases the pop time will be there.
I prefer tag time over pop time. If a catcher throws 2.0 on the bag and another throws 1.90 high or wrong side of the bad his tag time may be 2.1 and actually slower.
Here is a funny catcher story from this week. My son is a 1.95 ranch tag time and throw out 6 runners at second during the game and after the 3rd runner the baserunners were getting made at the coach. LOL I guess he was just hard headed.
I prefer tag time over pop time. If a catcher throws 2.0 on the bag and another throws 1.90 high or wrong side of the bad his tag time may be 2.1 and actually slower.
Here is a funny catcher story from this week. My son is a 1.95 ranch tag time and throw out 6 runners at second during the game and after the 3rd runner the baserunners were getting made at the coach. LOL I guess he was just hard headed.
I'm a freshman and have consistant pop times between 1.95 and 2.05.
As well as many high school catchers I know and have seen been clocket at the same times.
As well as many high school catchers I know and have seen been clocket at the same times.
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.
For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.
For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.
quote:Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.
For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.
Absolutely!!! It's just simple math. Few kids in high school run under 3.5 seconds. So many people think a sub 2 in needed to throw out a high school runner. Your math shows why a sub 2.0 is not needed to throw out high school base stealers.
quote:Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.
For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.
Pitcher's time to plate is, for a righty, from when front moves to catcher's glove pop????? What about a lefty????
I am an 8th grader and 13 playing up in the high school and my pop time is average 2.3. Is that good for my age?
quote:Originally posted by slbaseballdad:quote:Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
I use pop times to evaluate my catchers in practice, but during games I use total time from pitch to pop of glove at second base. Instead of 2.0 catcher pop, I want around 3.5 total time and a throw on the bag.
For example, if pitcher is 1.35 to plate and catcher is 2.15 with throw on the bag, we have a shot.
Pitcher's time to plate is, for a righty, from when front moves to catcher's glove pop????? What about a lefty????
Yes, from when front foot moves to time ball hits catchers mitt. Doesn't matter if it is lefty or righty pitcher.
My son has played baseball since he was 4 years old and has always mainly been a catcher. He just finished his Junior year in high school in June of 2011. He played HS varsity this spring and was NOT the starting catcher for about the first 8 games. After he caught a few games the starting catcher was moved to a different position and my son became the starting catcher for the rest of the season. He ended up being named to the All-Conference 1st Team as Catcher. At the beginning of his Junior year he was timed at a 2.20 pop time and was about 60 % or so accuracy. In his summer league (High School Level) he has improved his pop time, and accuracy drastically. He was timed last night in a varsity game as 2.04 and his accuracy is now about 98%. No one has even attempted to steal a base when he is catching for the last 9 games, except when there was a wild pitch. He don't allow many pass balls, about 6 the whole summer season. Question is: is this pretty good for his level/age? I am not really sure anymore where I need to work him. The goal is to get him to college baseball. So in his situation, being a senior next year, what would be the best thing to concentrate and work on for the rest of this year to get him noticed by some colleges next year while he is a senior?
Voyager -
Have you done anything to get him in front of college coaches yet? This should be a big recruiting time for him, and your focus should be on exposure.
This is the time when college coaches are making their commitments for the 2012 grads, so if your son wants to play in college, you should be making sure that one way or another he is playing in front of college coaches.
Have you done anything to get him in front of college coaches yet? This should be a big recruiting time for him, and your focus should be on exposure.
This is the time when college coaches are making their commitments for the 2012 grads, so if your son wants to play in college, you should be making sure that one way or another he is playing in front of college coaches.
Voyager
Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.
Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.
quote:Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:
Voyager
Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.
Not true at all. Of course you have to be able to hit to play professionally or in college, but that is not the most important factor. The catcher is still a position that is defense oriented. If you are a bad defensive catcher you don't have much of a shot to make it to the next level.
quote:Originally posted by CollegeParentNoMore:
Voyager
Honestly, the most visable/important factor for a college coach and scouts is the catchers ability to hit. If the catcher show's no special ability to hit in HS it won't matter how good the pop times or blocking is.
In the many conversations I have had over the years with college coaches and MLB scouts, I would have to respectfully, but wholeheartedly, disagree with this statement.
A catcher who hits the crud out of the ball, but cannot field his position is called a third/first baseman. Most college coaches and pro scouts see a catcher's ability to hit as the icing on the cake. Yes, it will certainly play a role in that player's marketability to both a college and a pro organization, but a catcher who blocks everything, receives well and throws efficiently will always get a look, despite a sub-standard bat.
Voyager,
A JR with a 2.04 "game" throw is someone that college coaches will want to give a shot. People have this idea that they need to break two-seconds to have any shot at playing decent college baseball and that is simply not true (as well as the misconception that the "decent baseball" label is reserved for D1 schools. Plenty of terrific D2 and D3 schools around the country).
A consistent 2.0-2.1 game throw with accuracy puts the weight on the pitcher's shoulders. When evaluating a high school catcher, a smart college coach won't care about the out/safe call, just the skills that were displayed by the catcher. If your son is consistently in that two-second range, blocks well, is athletic and is anything more than anemic with the bat, he should get a chance to play college baseball.
Here's the one thing that might be an issue concerning your son's exposure. If he is going into his SR year and displays the skills that are required to play college baseball, he should have received some type of contact from a college coach. Most coaches are currently in the process of finalizing their Fall-of-2012 recruiting class.
There are certainly reasons why a catcher might be overlooked by college coaches, even when that catcher has the ability to play at that level. Ihe most important thing right now is to make sure that the schools he is looking at are looking at him. As soon as you can, sit down with your son and start discussing the schools he is interested in and then start contacting the coaches through the school's website. Sending them a skills video is something that I would highly recommend if those coaches have never seen him behind the plate. If you would like to know how one of those videos should be formatted, here is a link that goes into explicit detail on what needs to be in that video and how it should be shot http://www.catchingcamp.com/bl...-video-for-catchers/
Also, from personal experience, please let me recommend that you make sure that the college selection process is centered around his education and his overall comfort at that particular school without baseball. You never know what can happen, and the last thing you want is for your son to be stuck at a school, not playing baseball, and generally uninterested in pursuing a degree. College baseball is great, but remember what college is all about.
I stand by hitting as being the most significant factor that will get the attention of a coach or scout. I am sure many of you have seen the post at http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...751037862#8751037862 where a former player development and college coach describes what he is looking for in a catcher.
My son's experience as a catcher was that no one was interested until he showed he could hit and he has always had pretty good catching skills and a plus arm.
The catchers that couldn't hit were bullpen catchers at most places my son has played.
Sure, not all coaches evaluate the same, however a big bat gets everyone's attention.
My son's experience as a catcher was that no one was interested until he showed he could hit and he has always had pretty good catching skills and a plus arm.
The catchers that couldn't hit were bullpen catchers at most places my son has played.
Sure, not all coaches evaluate the same, however a big bat gets everyone's attention.
I was at PG 16u this week..my kid is a freshman..he threw a fast runner out with a 2.18 right on the bag. (according to scout) I was told by his coach the scout said for his age and size its was about where he should be and they would take that all day long but in college it needs to get at least to a 2.0 max
PS in regards to big hitting catchers. Many colleges will take a big hitting catcher with adequate skills as a 3rd catcher who they can DH or give some crucial at bats to..IE victor martinez type. But a big hitting catcher who cant field will give up more runs than they produce
Hey I was just wondering if a 2.2-2.3 pop time for a 13 year old catcher good? I'm 5'2 with a better than average arm for my size but usually I have to one hop it right on the bag. Any tips for increasing arm strength other then long toss which I do a ton
There are plenty of opinions posted on this thread and others in this forum which provide some benchmarking of pop times.
It needs to be mentioned that your grades will impact your options.
You can sign up at Perfect Game and see the pop times of plenty of catchers. You can see where they ended up playing. If there's a college you are interested in, get the names of their catchers and look them up, see how they did when they were in high school.
You can also ask individual coaches what they look for in a catcher. As is obvious from the opinions on this thread, they will not all have the same answer.
My advice is just do the best you can, work hard, follow the advice on this forum about getting exposure, and see where it takes you.
It needs to be mentioned that your grades will impact your options.
You can sign up at Perfect Game and see the pop times of plenty of catchers. You can see where they ended up playing. If there's a college you are interested in, get the names of their catchers and look them up, see how they did when they were in high school.
You can also ask individual coaches what they look for in a catcher. As is obvious from the opinions on this thread, they will not all have the same answer.
My advice is just do the best you can, work hard, follow the advice on this forum about getting exposure, and see where it takes you.
I turn 16 in a few months and throw a 1.87 at 81mph consistantly in game situations. As a freshman last year i was throwing a 1.98 at 77mph consistently. All my strength and speed came after my growth spirt. The mindset I have everyday when I train is how bad do I want it? It all comes down to the 10,000 hours of hard work you put into this game to be in the top 1% in this country/world to have a chance to make it to the big leagues. I do something everyday, whether it is playing catch, hitting, or strength and conditioning it all comes down to how bad you want it.
Originally Posted by Rob Kremer:
Southside, an accurate 2.0 game pop time with a velocity of 75+ MPH would get a lot of looks for D1, especially if he can hit.
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
Well this kinda sounds like me. Except I'm not getting any D1 looks. Right now I got it down to a best 2.05 and I got clocked at 75 MPH at Baseball Factory. Wha else should I do? Trying to get it to a 2.0 consistently before high school season and then below.
Originally Posted by Wesleythecacther:
Originally Posted by Rob Kremer:
Southside, an accurate 2.0 game pop time with a velocity of 75+ MPH would get a lot of looks for D1, especially if he can hit.
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
Well this kinda sounds like me. Except I'm not getting any D1 looks. Right now I got it down to a best 2.05 and I got clocked at 75 MPH at Baseball Factory. Wha else should I do? Trying to get it to a 2.0 consistently before high school season and then below.
What year are you?
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Originally Posted by Wesleythecacther:
Originally Posted by Rob Kremer:
Southside, an accurate 2.0 game pop time with a velocity of 75+ MPH would get a lot of looks for D1, especially if he can hit.
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)
Well this kinda sounds like me. Except I'm not getting any D1 looks. Right now I got it down to a best 2.05 and I got clocked at 75 MPH at Baseball Factory. Wha else should I do? Trying to get it to a 2.0 consistently before high school season and then below.
What year are you?
2017, a junior.
I hope other people reply too, my very rudimentary understanding of this subject is a SUB 2.0 pop time gets real interest. So a 1.99 seems to be the magic number. As for the 75mph throw down that IS a decent number. It seems like recruiters also want hitting power and speed if they can get it. I personally know a 2016 catcher that was highly sought after that has a 1.88 pop, 77 mph throw down, and a 7.06 sixty time, he can also hit well.
How did you do on your 60 time and hitting?
He should keep working on those pop time mechanics. But it may be an issue of "marketing" as well.
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
I hope other people reply too, my very rudimentary understanding of this subject is a SUB 2.0 pop time gets real interest. So a 1.99 seems to be the magic number. As for the 75mph throw down that IS a decent number. It seems like recruiters also want hitting power and speed if they can get it. I personally know a 2016 catcher that was highly sought after that has a 1.88 pop, 77 mph throw down, and a 7.06 sixty time, he can also hit well.
How did you do on your 60 time and hitting?
60 time best was 7.1 and hitting I just went to a camp and they said I had good bat speed, I have power; doubles and a triple once and a while. Just not HRs yet.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
He should keep working on those pop time mechanics. But it may be an issue of "marketing" as well.
I will work on the mechanics. also, I am on a recruiting website and I talk to coach and have some following my profile. Mechanics wise; for footwork. what is the best? Jab step toward second with right foot? Or replace feet method; replace left foot with right foot and have left foot step towards second? I'm not sure which is better. Im being taught jab step to get momentum going toward second.
