Pop time expectations

There is no expected and it is very individual. It can be worked on over and over. There may be averages for high school frosh, but I am not sure if any good data on it exists.
Work on good footwork and training the body athletically over the next few years and then hope for that 2.0 benchmark as a senior.
I am working with a 15 year old that threw 3 1.95's today, 1 during a game situation and the other 2 between innings. On the steal attempt a perfect throw still didn't get the runner as he had a huge jump on the pitcher.

For a Freshman a good target to shoot for is to break the 2.4 mark.

The average game pop for a good high school varsity catcher is 2.20-2.25.

Above average is 2.10-2.19

Excellent for a HS varsity catcher would be a game throw 2.0-2.09


The key to remember is that the catchers throw is only the 2nd half of the equation. If your pitcher is 1.7 to the plate, and your catcher is 2.3, that's 4.0 combined. That will beat many baserunners to 2nd.

I have so many coaches contacting me telling me their catchers are not effective throwing out runners but when I ask what their pitchers time to the plate is they have no idea, We need to be aware of both times.

Catchers take to much of the blame for successfull basestealing.

I had one 14 yr old student a few years ago that could throw game throws 1.90 and faster. He caught on a middle school team. He only threw out about 20% of the base stealers. The pitchers many times never even looked over to first. The leads were and jump were huge. It's not just about the catchers throw.


ONE MORE STANDARD FOR YOU.

Another good standard for kids to shoot for is for the kids 13yr old, first year on the big field. Most have been throwing 85ft, now 127.

Their goal should be to finish spring season of 13 yr ball breaking 3.0

Catching coach great post and I have to agree 100%.

Average major league pop time is 2.0 on the bag. The key idea in that sentence is on the bag.

I agree with Catch Coach....but would add...knowing when to and when not to (a tactical thought process) is critical...I have struggled all season with a 15 yo who was taught when in doubt throw him out...he has launched more baseballs into right and left field trying to throw out a runner...Im a catcher all my life and I cannot break this habit...he was taught from 6 up to throw it...cant even count how many runs it has cost us...sometimes as a catcher you have to just eat it when the runner is there.

Yea, whenever anybody throws to a base when the runner is easily safe- the expression my coahc ALWAYS says: THATS NOT BASEBALL, FELLAS!!

scouts will always look for kids that throw under 2.0. dont tell a freshman catcher that he is doing well throwing a 2.4, because that is not a good time. i suggest find a professional instructor to work with the younger kids. reason being, there are kids that have worked with instructors and who are throwing at that mark or below even as freshman. i have a kid right now who just started his freshman year of hs and has already attended a WWBA 18u tournament and has been clocked as low as 1.94

It is a good throw if he is doing the best he can. Legit 2.4 for a freshman no problem with that. Now get some good instruction , work hard on your mechanics , continue to work on your arm strength ( you will gain some arm strength naturally by getting older and stronger ) and understand that it will not happen overnight. 1.9 pops for youngs kids are the exception not the rule. Dont measure yourself against the exceptional arm right now. Work to get it at 2.2. Then work on getting that clean accurate 2.0. When your a senior if your throwing that good accurate 2.0 1.9 no one is going to care that you were a 2.4 as a freshman. One things for sure the freshman with a 1.9 is not going to drop 5 tenths off his pop. He is going to be lucky to get it down in the 1.8 range. There is a ceiling folks. My boy was a 2.06 clean and accurate at PG event his freshman year. He is a Jr now and is a consistent all day long 2.0 game pop very accurate. He throws 1.9 all day non game pops and has hit some 1.8's. I really dont care what he can do non game. I have had several freshman come in that were 2.4 2.5 and left solid 2.0 2.1 guys. Several have played in college. Good Luck to you. Get you a good instructor that can work with you one on one in the off season. And if you dont have a HS coach with catching experience use the instructor during the season. Keep working hard you will be fine. Its not where you start the race its where you finish it. GOOD LUCK

great point! if he is at 2.4, work to get to 2.2.. this can be achieved by letting the ball get deeper instead of extending the arm to catch it first.... there are numerous ways to shave off .2 sec off your time

A big problem I see with kids is they chase the baseball. They see the runner going and they reach out for the ball. They think by reaching out for it they are going to get the ball faster and be able to get rid of it faster. Nothing could be further from the truth. The ball travels faster than you can. Let it get deep. Also by chaseing the ball you get off balance and alot of these throws are not accurate at all.

Coach May,

You and I have agreed on this topic many times. An accurate 2.4 in a game is a good time for a Freshman. Many of these kids are only 14-15 years old, growth spurt may have not always started for all of them even at that age.

For 99% of the HS catchers out there a goal of 2.2 in a game by the time they are Seniors will be a good, realistic target.

Just wondering what is a good radar time down to second.

Don't know if they differ from d-1 down but lets say for a top senior catcher looking for a d-1 school.

Southside, an accurate 2.0 game pop time with a velocity of 75+ MPH would get a lot of looks for D1, especially if he can hit.

(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)

80+ would be outstanding.

quote:

(I used to live on the south side of Chicago myself.)

Rob, just curious if you ever ran into one heckuva ballplayer by the name of Bad, Bad Leroy Brown?

Originally posted by Catching Coach:
If your pitcher is 1.7 to the plate, and your catcher is 2.3, that's 4.0 combined. That will beat many baserunners to 2nd.

At what level? I would think that combo is very slow for Varsity.

Krak:

Actually, yes. I knew Leroy quite well. Minor correction, though. It is a little known fact that Bad, Bad Leroy Brown was actually a female. I dated her for months.

Never felt safer on the South Side of Chicago. She owned the place.

There are so many factors in play here. As a catcher all you can do is catch it and throw it. The speed of the runner, the lead of the runner, the condition of the field ie wet dirt, loose dirt, hard dirt, the type of jump the runner gets, how well the pitcher holds the runner, how long it takes the pitcher to get rid of it, the type of pitch curve ball change up fastball, the location of the pitch inside and up outside and up down and in away and up etc etc etc. These are all factors that will determine wether or not the runner is hosed or not. The only thing you can actually controll is how you recieve it and how you get rid of it. One thing for sure is an accurate throw will give you a chance. You want to work on getting rid of it quick and accurately and with as much on it as you can and still accomplish the first two goals. Ive seen kids hosed on 2.3's and I have seen kids safe on 2.0's. Catchers will always be blamed by the fans for not throwing out runners. And they will always get the credit when they throw someone out. The fact is it is a combination of the pitcher and catcher working together as a team. Only worry about what you can controll.

I was at a local showcase today.I timed the catchers from the bleachers kinda for something to do.There were 7 there,& all were Sophomores,Juniors,or Seniors.The times ranged from 2.05-2.4.Some looked descent,but none really caught my eye as a "standout".I think if you can stay below 2.1 & be consistently accurate with your throws,you have a shot to play at the next level.

quote:

I think if you can stay below 2.1 & be consistently accurate with your throws,you have a shot to play at the next level.

Exactly! What many will time is not pop-to-pop, but pop-to-tag. Emphasis is now on accuracy. I'll take a 2.1 on the bag rather than 1.9 high and on the shortstop side of the bag.

Hi, I am am entering my junior season coming out of southern ohio. I have always had a decent arm and am throwing about a 2.0 flat. Blocking has been a strength. Is a 2.0 flat good enough to get looks and if so how can I go about getting there. College baseball is the dream.

My son last year as a 14 year old was hitting consistent 2.0 pop times. He is now a freshman, but has not been timed lately on his pop time. To be a catcher that catches the eyes of scouts for college, how much better of a pop time should he try to work on?

Aside from the POP time issue for catchers...what is considered an exceptional batting average for a Varsity High School catcher? I mean, if the defensive side of the game is strong, what kind of batting average needs to be maintained to get some college scouts interested?

That's impressive...pop times of 2.0 consistenly at 14 are extremely rare...

As far as batting average, I don't think most coaches care much about that at all. The level of competition is so different from one high school to the next that there is really no way to get a sense of the context in which a guy put up whatever batting average...

Good post Emanski. A better question would be what type of swing does he have? Can he hit? Does he hit for power? What has he done against the quality pitching he has faced? Is he a big kid that does not run extremely well? If so does he hit for power? Is he more of an athletic kid who can run? If so can he hit?

Your batting average would only be a concern if it was very low. And it would only generate interest if it was very high. But in the end what you show when they are watching will be the most important factor.

I would love to hear a pop-time info update from LPBaseball21. I would assume he had a young catcher back in 2006 and he was wanting to evalaute his potential. But, it appears he quit posting sometime in 2008. It's very interesting to read old posts and then follow-up on the poster 2-3 years later to see how their posts have changed as they become more informed, etc. Just a thought.... GED10DaD

Emanski and Coach May...
Thank you for the replies. He is a big kid for 15, 5'10" at 170 lbs, and is extremely athletic with very quick feet. He does have a very quick swing and does hit well and with power. I am glad to hear there is not SO MUCH pressure for his batting average to be extremely high.

I'll give you my 2 cents on my 2010 grad. As a freshman he was throwing 2.4 to 2.6 game time pops when giving the chance to cheat 2.3 to 2.4. Every year sense then he has dropped .2 tenths off the origanal time, now going into the senior season he is a solid 2 sec guy at 82 to 83 mph with accurate throws to 2b if he does not have a batter in the box 1.9's. He has received good intrest from some d1's and alot of d2 schools and is waiting until after this season to make a decision.
Pop times will vary greatly on who is holding the stop watch. I have been taught to start the time when the ball touches the front the plate and stop when it reaches infielders glove acording to some scouts.

I have said it before and I will say it again here and now----pop times are over rated--most, if not all, the pop times that are listed are done in a sterile situation--no batter--no base runner--

They key is good mechanics and accuracy, not the time---keep in mind that the catcher cannot get rid of the ball any quicker than the pitcher delivers it to him -- a 1.8 pop time for a catcher means nothing if the pitcher does a poor job of holding the runner on and is slow in his delivery to the plate.

Sure the strong arm and great pop times are nice but there is more to it than just that--as much as baseball is an individual performance sport it is still a team sport--


Bottom line, and this is from an old catcher--worry more about your defense,handling the pitcher and being the tesam quarterback---do this and all will be well

quote:

now going into the senior season he is a solid 2 sec guy at 82 to 83 mph with accurate throws to 2b if he does not have a batter in the box 1.9's. He has received good interest from some d1's and alot of d2 schools and is waiting until after this season to make a decision.

If he is throwing 82/83 I am not surprised he is getting D1 looks.

I agree with you 1000 percent Mr Hit but I have never seen a college scout with out his stop watch. The bad thing is they only ever get the toss down between innings so really not accurate (cheating)they don't run on him like they use to. Thank you for insight I do follow your post.

Pop to pop. When the ball pops the glove and then when the ball pops the glove. Being good at this requires experience at doing it and not having a vested interest in who is throwing it down. Anticipated the ball popping the glove and starting the watch on pop and then doing the same thing on the other end of the throw. One tenth of a miss on both ends and you go from a 2.2 to a 2.0 or a 2.0 to a 1.8. If you do it enough with enough different kids over a long period of time you can pretty much put down the stop watch and come pretty darn close just by watching the catch transfer and line of the throw.

Its very obvious when you go to a work out or showcase who is in the 2.0 and below club and who is not and you dont need a stop watch to see it. Its obvious. I can tell you this the amount of kids reported to throw 2.0 and below is about the same as the pitchers reported to throw 90 and above.

quote:

I can tell you this... the amount of kids reported to throw 2.0 and below is about the same as the pitchers reported to throw 90 and above.

So, how is the best way to evaluate catchers? Isn't a pop-time a valuable piece of info, coupled with other information gathered thru due-diligence? I will agree it does not stand alone, but IMO it is a good part of the foundation of the evaluation.
GED10DaD

I have always liked the programs that put a radar gun on the throw then rate the mechanics out to give it a score, good mechanics weaker arm lesser score so so mechanics strong arm means room for improvement, I have only seen a couple of programs due this so I may be wrong, but the programs I seen due this are some of the better D1’s around. Once again I am sure there are a lot variables to this. My son is very thin and I think the colleges are worried about durability in the long haul, I have been asked a couple of times when I filled out so it makes me wonder, makes me wonder if I should lose some weight.

Are game #4 times the same as game #88. That's why they keep times recorded,which catchers are gonna continue to throw guys out late in the season? I agree that there is alot to consider, if your pitcher is longer than 1.4 to the plate the chances of throwing anyone out decreases,add to that pitch&location,your asking for the impossible.Butt I have seen the impossible possible,and a thing of beauty to behold.First baseman yells "runner" pitcher throws low & inside shortstop goes to the bag, catcher digs it out of the dirt, brushes past the batter and fires a p**s missle to the bag, ss gloves it applies the tag and the home team comes in to hit.Yes, catchers are required to control the game and throwing out 35% of runners is part of that.Imop think working with the pitching staff well is the most important skill a catcher develops,IF he can catch.

My point is I do alot of showcase events where catchers are timed. I go to alot of showcase events and time them myself. I have coached for many years in hs and put the watch on kids every game. I scout and always get some pop times. If I had a nickle for everytime I heard a kid was a consistent 2.0 and I saw him and he was 2.15 to 2.2 I would have heck of stash of nickles.

The same for pitchers that you are told hit 90 but really hit 84. Guys that consistently and accurately throw 2.0 and below in game situations without cheating , while still doing their primary job are as rare as guys that can throw 90. What I evaluate when I am watching catchers throwing is arm strength from the catchers posistion , footwork , transfer , ability to receive and ability to throw accurately to the bag , carry through the bag.

When you see a kid that knows how to properly receive it and does , has good footwork , transfer and then the arm strength from the posistion the pop time is always there. The more arm strength a kid has the margin for error. The less arm strength the less margin for error. Arm strength is the one thing a coach can not teach your kid. Work on it and work on your mechanics behind the plate. You are not evaluated on your ability to hold runners , the speed of the runner etc. You are evaluated on what you can control.

Pop times are extremely important when evaluating catchers. Especially important are "game" pop times.

The pop time is the result of all the other things. Arm strength, transfer, footwork, etc.

Same pitch location and selection. Who would you give the money to?

Catcher A - pop time 2.35 and nipped the slow runner trying to steal 2B. Stat shows Caught Stealing!

Catcher B - pop time 1.90 just missed the fast runner stealing 2B. Stat shows Stolen Base!

What the pitcher does can effect the results, but it doesn't change which catcher has the most ability.

Obviously there are other things that are very important, but scouts aren't going to quit timing catchers anytime soon.

PG, with that being said about the pitchers. What do scouts (or do they) look at when evaluating pitchers in the stretch, i.e. time to plate times, etc?

YGD,

As important as that is, it would be considered more of a "polish" thing rather than a talent thing.

What counts the most is the pitch, not how long it takes to get rid of it. Maintaining velocity out of the stretch would be more important from a scouting perspectve. Teaching someone to be quicker to the plate can happen later. However, there are certain deliveries that make being quick to the plate more difficult. That said, someone who can maintain their stuff while using a slide step is something that will stand out.