This is not about who is a good guy/lady. I just can't see the harm in people posting pics of their BB kids. The thread was clearly marked and was totaly harmless. I just can't believe the reaction. Who sets these rules that determin this thread to be out of bounds. I just don't get it.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
I am NOT telling you I am right, but how I perceive it and the over-reaction(s) such as yours only reaffirm to me that I very well could be right.
Dude, does that mean he's right if you keep coming back?
Dude! Perhaps? But I don't think so. 
quote:Originally posted by 2Bmom:
Hey, Jon. Go to Unusually Unusual, watch that taser video I just posted, pretend it's someone you don't like, and you'll feel a lot better!
I think I'm going to change my tag line to "Don't tase me, bro!" Cracks me up every time.
Anyway, as we here at UF found out a few days ago, free speech can be annoying! Whether stated abrasively or gently and respectfully. And sometimes it sure would be nice to have a taser! Only you hope the guy who disagrees with you doesn't have one! But, as BBfam says - Carry on! It's a free country, after all.
In one hour, I'm going to pour myself and adult beverage. TGIF!
I think I am understanding lots of the deep frustration here. The above just shows what type of person you are and how you view the world.
Did you see the video of the girls who was drunk and was tasered repeatedly? Did you think that was funny too?
What has this got to do with the discussion?
Good post CD.
BTW, go to general I started a thread a while ago for parents who wanted to brag and not feel funny about doing it.
Jbb, Okay, now you're making ME smile!
You caught me off balance with that one.
What do we do now, wanna shake hands?
You caught me off balance with that one.
What do we do now, wanna shake hands?
"Your son is 9, everything is going to change. Relax and enjoy, he's got a long way to go."quote:Originally posted by willj1967:
Here's the main point of my post...I get annoyed by what I perceive to be bragging as well. If you look at the "Pitching" section of this site you'll see a dad who posted video of his 9 yr old son pitching and he asked for advice on his mechanics. Obviously, what he really wants is to hear a bunch of people he doesn't know tell him how great his son is. I think that's pretty silly personally, so what do I (as a mature adult) do about it? I do nothing. I ignore it and move on to something else. What does TPM do? She posts a not-so-subtle chastisement of the guy telling him... "Your son is 9, everything is going to change. Relax and enjoy, he's got a long way to go." I found that more annoying than the guy posting the video. What compels people like TPM, infielddad, and to a lesser extent Justbaseball to interject themselves and their perceived superiority into threads that they are not even a part of? There are certainly jerks that deserve to get slammed on this site. But I don't see it being deserved by the original posters in this thread.
This is excellent advice. I've seen too many parents take nine year old sports too seriously in baseball, basketball, s****r, football, softball, field hockey and volleyball.
Yesterday I watched a group of high school parents take JV sports too seriously. You would have thought I shot the president when I said, "While winning beats the hell out of losing and the kids want to win, this is about development. No one outside this team gives a rat about whether the JV team wins or loses." They did win. It's that S word sport.
Even my son said today, "Last year in middle school I would have had high fives all day for my performance. In high school JV doesn't mean squat. All that matters is the varsity coach approached me in the hall and said he heard I played well."
quote:Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
What do we do now, wanna shake hands?
Next time I'm in Ohio (was just there 2 weeks ago), I'd be happy too.
I betcha this little debate would have been a lot better understood by us all over a cold brew - huh?
(BTW, if the the "truth" be known, I thought your son's photo(s) looked the best of any. Great form!).
quote:I'll bet you have a bumper sticker that says "My kid beat up your honor student"
I had a bumper sticker once that said, "My honor student beat up your kid". (JK)
Thought it got a little serious and wanted everyone to smile.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I do find it ridiculous that a parent posted a video of 9 year old just beginning to pitch asking for advice? Do you have a pitcher?
I gave him advice, he has a lot to learn and enjoy. So do you.
I have always said to enjoy those moments, time flies so fast. I find less and less parents these days enjoying those moments. They already have the pitching or hitting instuctors lined up, signed up for travel teams. They are so enamored with what every other kid at 9,10,11 are doing also. If you take offense to that, well, that's my opinion, that's how I see it. If you take that as a superior attitude, you'll understand someday.
And in the end, you will find, these young pitchers to develop arm problems before HS. I have a REALLY, REALLY big problem with that....
I don't really want to offend anyone here, but you all just really don't get it. You long-term members really don't have any idea how condescending your posts are (I particularly love "you'll understand someday".)?? That's how my mom talked to me when I was 7. This just confirms my previous post. Because you all have been around this site a long time and your kids have made it, you really think you know more about pitching (or baseball or life) than the rest of us. I've pitched for 12 years and coached for another 13 years. I have 3 friends who have pitched in the major leagues and we talk pitching regularly. I've thrown thousands upon thousands upon thousands of pitches in my lifetime with no injuries. I started throwing curve balls when I was 10. I think I'm qualified to manage my son's pitching, which I do. I don't leave it to his coach, at least not at age 11.
Unlike our interlopers, I don't post in any areas of this site that are irrelevant to me (i.e. anything post-HS). That would be foolish of me.
Once again, this isn't about whether TPM or infielddad are "good" people or "bad" people. Having read many of their posts I bet they are really great people. And the problem here isn't that you're giving bad advice. You didn't say anything that's factually incorrect. The PROBLEM is that nobody asked for it. It's the mother-in-law syndrome ("here are all the things you're doing wrong"). The guy who posted the video of his son didn't ask for your advice on life (though he certainly could use it IMO). He asked for technical advice which is not what you provided. This reminds me of an old post where some kid asked for opinions on whether he should get the new Stealth or the new Demarini bat. I think it was TR that posted something like "man I really love the sound of a wood bat hitting the ball." What the **** does that have to do with buying a Stealth or Demarini? That's how many posts on this site come across to me.
Those of us with pre-HS kids were posting pictures and having fun, then the old-timers (with no pre-HS players) came in uninvited to provide their pearls of wisdom and deliver us from evil. Please read this carefully....WE DIDN'T ASK FOR YOUR OPINION! Can I say it any more plainly than that? We didn't invite infielddad or any of you to comment. You interjected yourselves into a topic that has absolutely Zero to do with you. Do you all go door-to-door in your neighborhoods giving parental advice? I can't believe I have to say this again...nobody was bragging about how our kids are better than anyone else's, etc... I feel like banging my head on my keyboard. Ow that hurt. Okay, I had to erase a few letters there.
I can't speak for others but I am here on this site mostly to learn from others who know more than me. I occasionally answer questions (if you go through the pitching site you'll see that to be true). But mostly I ask technical questions and have been fortunate to get really good answers from some of the coaches and umpires that frequent this site. I am staying, even though I do get annoyed at many posts.
BTW, O'Reilly is selling "Don't taze me bro!" t-shirts. That might be worth the money.
Jon
I'd like to provide what I believe to be an unbiased response since I joined the board a couple of months ago.quote:Originally posted by willj1967:
I don't really want to offend anyone here, but you all just really don't get it. You long-term members really don't have any idea how condescending your posts are (I particularly love "you'll understand someday".)?? That's how my mom talked to me when I was 7. This just confirms my previous post. Because you all have been around this site a long time and your kids have made it, you really think you know more about pitching (or baseball or life) than the rest of us. I've pitched for 12 years and coached for another 13 years. I have 3 friends who have pitched in the major leagues and we talk pitching regularly. I've thrown thousands upon thousands upon thousands of pitches in my lifetime with no injuries. I started throwing curve balls when I was 10. I think I'm qualified to manage my son's pitching, which I do. I don't leave it to his coach, at least not at age 11.
Unlike our interlopers, I don't post in any areas of this site that are irrelevant to me (i.e. anything post-HS). That would be foolish of me.
Once again, this isn't about whether TPM or infielddad are "good" people or "bad" people. Having read many of their posts I bet they are really great people. And the problem here isn't that you're giving bad advice. You didn't say anything that's factually incorrect. The PROBLEM is that nobody asked for it. It's the mother-in-law syndrome ("here are all the things you're doing wrong"). The guy who posted the video of his son didn't ask for your advice on life (though he certainly could use it IMO). He asked for technical advice which is not what you provided. This reminds me of an old post where some kid asked for opinions on whether he should get the new Stealth or the new Demarini bat. I think it was TR that posted something like "man I really love the sound of a wood bat hitting the ball." What the **** does that have to do with buying a Stealth or Demarini? That's how many posts on this site come across to me.
Those of us with pre-HS kids were posting pictures and having fun, then the old-timers (with no pre-HS players) came in uninvited to provide their pearls of wisdom and deliver us from evil. Please read this carefully....WE DIDN'T ASK FOR YOUR OPINION! Can I say it any more plainly than that? We didn't invite infielddad or any of you to comment. You interjected yourselves into a topic that has absolutely Zero to do with you. Do you all go door-to-door in your neighborhoods giving parental advice? I can't believe I have to say this again...nobody was bragging about how our kids are better than anyone else's, etc... I feel like banging my head on my keyboard. Ow that hurt. Okay, I had to erase a few letters there.
I can't speak for others but I am here on this site mostly to learn from others who know more than me. I occasionally answer questions (if you go through the pitching site you'll see that to be true). But mostly I ask technical questions and have been fortunate to get really good answers from some of the coaches and umpires that frequent this site. I am staying, even though I do get annoyed at many posts.
I have a very extensive background playing through college ball and coaching background through 18U/G showcase softball and helping several players with their recruiting process. I'm up to 15U travel on the baseball side. I also coached 15U before having my own kids.
Joining a board is like walking into a party full of strangers with the one person you know. In this case the partner we all know is baseball. You have to feel your way and find a comfort level.
Whenever you post you're opening yourself up to responses from every member of the community. The responses may be positive or negative. They may be helpful or not. You make that choice by sifting through the information provided and deciding what you can utilize.
And yes, there are times parents of younger players display lack of perspective. Even some of the people providing advice may have lacked perspective at some time several years ago. When they comment, they're only trying to help.
Here's how I help people who I tick off with the comment of "You'll look back and laugh at yourself someday." Go watch a game three or four years younger than your son's current age. I can almost guarantee you will shake your head and wonder how parents can get all torqued up over this level of ball. You may even laugh.
quote:Those of us with pre-HS kids were posting pictures and having fun, then the old-timers (with no pre-HS players) came in uninvited to provide their pearls of wisdom and deliver us from evil. Please read this carefully....WE DIDN'T ASK FOR YOUR OPINION! Can I say it any more plainly than that? We didn't invite infielddad or any of you to comment. You interjected yourselves into a topic that has absolutely Zero to do with you.
So I am trying really hard to follow you here. If I were to understand what I think you are saying...then posters who have been through the whole thing or close to it would have no right to advise any of us on anything unless we asked? That by the way would include Zach Duke's father (one of the very best posters this site ever had...let me repeat "HAD")
Extrapolating, Fungo should keep his mouth shut on college and below, as should infielddad, TPM, FutureBack.Mom, Orlando, racab, rz1 and quite a few others (I would guess about 20 current posters) who have kids in pro ball unless asked? BTW, Innocent Bystander fits this category too and is headed for Round-2 with a pre-HSer...which gives me a very good reason to reconsider about my own thoughts on this too...Dude!
But continuing along thinking about your comment, there must be at least another 50-100 college-parent posters who should stay quiet about HS and below since it has "zero to do with them?"...that is unless "asked" by those with kids in HS and below? Taken to an extreme, we should never start a thread...because we weren't asked any question...right?
This is getting really ridiculous Will-Jon. Re-reading my previous post I can see where you thought I was talking like a parent rather than a peer...for that I am sincerely sorry. I had no intention, whatsoever, of coming off that way. OK? To borrow a (para)phrase from you, 'let me make it plain' (which by the way was a "parental" phrase my own parents used with me too...or was it my mother-in-law? Nah, never, she's way too sweet!
)...I am sorry! (yet another plain phrase my parents taught me).BTW, do you know why OPP (Zach Duke's father) and some other really good posters left this site? Because newer people came on here and told them they were full of $hit or they had no business advising them on the pitfalls when they weren't asked. Awfully sad that he and others just said, 'enough is enough.' No one is immune my friend. If you stick with this, you will be told the same a few years from now when you offer advice with good intentions...unsolicited.
quote:Unlike our interlopers, I don't post in any areas of this site that are irrelevant to me...The PROBLEM is that nobody asked for it.
Speaking plainly again, I made mistakes my first time through and I will make more I am sure. Overall, it has worked out well so far. But there are also things I would do differently such as identifying my kids on here. There are also things I did well like read and listen to OPP, Fungo, infielddad and others. If some of us have experienced firsthand some of these things...or seen them play out before, do you really want us to keep it in the vault? OK, but WOW!
quote:Because you all have been around this site a long time and your kids have made it, you really think you know more about pitching (or baseball or life) than the rest of us.
Absolutely not! But I do think a number of veteran posters on here know a lot more than you about navigating through pre-HS, HS, college and beyond. Other than perhaps me, they are good people. We all gained a lot from this site over the years. It helped us to help get our kids to where they are and now we have lots of background, experiences and information that I like to read and learn from and sometimes share...yes, unsolicited.
BUT...if this is the new order of this message board...oldies must sit in a corner until asked to comment and never, ever say anything pointed or unpopular, well then a lot of us need to move on. Like I said several posts ago, like OPP I've got plenty of other hobbies to move on over too.
One of the most common mistakes I made in my first year or two on here was misinterpreting or over-reacting to others' posts. I too once 'went off' on a pretty good and experienced poster. As time went on, I realized that these are good people trying to help and that almost never...ALMOST NEVER...did they intentionally mean to sound condescending or parental. The same is true here. I wish you would choose to believe that.
But even after all of that, I will say it again in yet another way. I did not think the question about the reason behind the pictures asked by a veteran poster was unreasonable, nor did I think it was condescending nor elitist nor offensive. I thought it was provocative and that has played out to be true in this thread IMO. Unsolicited, I am offering the opinion that (in most cases) posting photos, videos, stats, etc... of your own son strikes me as self-promotional. Note the words "opinion" and "strikes me" are not absolutes nor authoritative. I have posted information about my kids in the past and I wish I had not. Many, many times I wish that no one on here knew who my kids are including at this very moment. I can think of no benefit to my kids, who to me are the most important parties here, to have the spotlight put onto them by me. That is my opinion, and nothing more, based on a fairly large sample of personal experience. Take it or leave it, your choice.
Going back to an earlier comment you (WillJ) made on this thread, you said:
quote:No hard feelings here. I wasn't really that bothered...I mostly thought it was kind of funny...
I'm hoping we can get back to that feeling you had before and that Saturday brings some sunshine and a much better day to you and your family. Cheers!
P.S. TG - thats a really good post IMO.
Just one question, then I am out of here.
Will-Jon, did anyone ask for YOUR opinion?
If you feel I was condescending, and don't like things said, you should take your own advice, you are giving, stay quiet. That's how it is on a message board right ?, they are words, you may think things are condescending, when they just might not be. I find that to be the confusion.
I remember OPP used to say to me, you'll understand that someday, so did Fungo, I never took it as anything more than they had a few years more of experience, and I do understand the comment. So I am passing them along to you. Take it as you wish. I guess you must have found your mom to be condescending, but I am sure you have looked back and understood what she was saying. And since you made reference to your mom, I am assuming you must feel that moms, should stay out of baseball discussions. If that was not yor intention, so you see how things get sidetracked on a message board? There's a good example.
I understand where you feel some of us have intruded. I apologize for that, but if you do go back and look, I said I enjoyed the pics, they brought back memories, and I really didn't agree with infielddad's post or justbaseball's but I felt that they have a right to express their opinions and ask questions and make statments, just as you do also wherever you post, whether asked or not.
Will-Jon, did anyone ask for YOUR opinion?
If you feel I was condescending, and don't like things said, you should take your own advice, you are giving, stay quiet. That's how it is on a message board right ?, they are words, you may think things are condescending, when they just might not be. I find that to be the confusion.
I remember OPP used to say to me, you'll understand that someday, so did Fungo, I never took it as anything more than they had a few years more of experience, and I do understand the comment. So I am passing them along to you. Take it as you wish. I guess you must have found your mom to be condescending, but I am sure you have looked back and understood what she was saying. And since you made reference to your mom, I am assuming you must feel that moms, should stay out of baseball discussions. If that was not yor intention, so you see how things get sidetracked on a message board? There's a good example.
I understand where you feel some of us have intruded. I apologize for that, but if you do go back and look, I said I enjoyed the pics, they brought back memories, and I really didn't agree with infielddad's post or justbaseball's but I felt that they have a right to express their opinions and ask questions and make statments, just as you do also wherever you post, whether asked or not.
For the record, not all of us with pre-hs kids think along the lines of will/jon. I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned from posters like Fungo, Justbaseball, TPM etc... My oldest will be in HS next year and we're going in prepared thanks to them. I feel like we won't be in it alone because these guys (and gals) were gracious enough to share their experiences good and bad. At least we have a game plan so to speak. Will my sons play college? Who knows, I don't need to worry about that now, but if they are on that track, I feel I know where to come for advice. I hope none of the posters who were told to back off do-I appreciate them sharing with us pre-hs parents. I bet their experiences have helped many to a situation better than would have happened without a little help from here.
BTW justbaseball--The advice you gave us last year, awesome. My son had a year you really can't pay for, friends for life, great experiences, he's just where he belongs (although the drive isn't fun). He loves it! (okay, so do we)
BTW justbaseball--The advice you gave us last year, awesome. My son had a year you really can't pay for, friends for life, great experiences, he's just where he belongs (although the drive isn't fun). He loves it! (okay, so do we
)
JB, you don't owe me an apology. I only mentioned you in passing and do not fault your for coming to the aid of a friend.
TPM, please grab your dictionary and look up "nonsequitor" (also spelled nonsequitur).
If this were the debate club, you'd be down about a hundred points.
I'm done.
Jon
TPM, please grab your dictionary and look up "nonsequitor" (also spelled nonsequitur).
If this were the debate club, you'd be down about a hundred points.
I'm done.
Jon
quote:My oldest will be in HS next year and we're going in prepared thanks to them. I feel like we won't be in it alone because these guys (and gals) were gracious enough to share their experiences good and bad. At least we have a game plan so to speak. Will my sons play college? Who knows, I don't need to worry about that now, but if they are on that track, I feel I know where to come for advice.
BBfam - that is a very nice post and represents what the hsbaseballweb is all about imho. I especially like the part about not worrying about whether or not your sons will play in college.
Here is the best secret I can give you and you can take it to the bank. If you foster a love for the game in them where it is first and foremost about having fun and not your expectations for them, and if they remain healthy baseballwise, then they will play in college someday! In the meantime, have fun and enjoy
quote:Originally posted by willj1967:
TPM, please grab your dictionary and look up "nonsequitor" (also spelled nonsequitur).
Jon
That's ok, I can take it, I have been called a lot worse.
I'll stick by my original thought, you have a lot to learn.
Since there haven't been many pictures posted over the last few pages I thought put a few more on. So here's to the new direction of this thread!
LOL! After getting up at 6am, driving an hour to a tournament, doing pregame for an hour just to watch the rain fall, hang out for two more hours trying to find out what's going on, then driving home to find out we have to drive back later this afternoon, and now play our rained out game is at 8 blipp'n AM tomorrow which means getting up at 5:30am, I needed a good laugh. Thank you.quote:Originally posted by bkekcs:
Since there haven't been many pictures posted over the last few pages I thought put a few more on. So here's to the new direction of this thread!
You forgot 
and 
and 
and even 
.
And in the tradition of the woodster, I'll add a big kiss from one of my adopted children on The Farm!
Cheers!
And in the tradition of the woodster, I'll add a big kiss from one of my adopted children on The Farm!
Cheers!
There really is nothing further for me to say to JB or TPM. They are totally blinded to logic and their recent posts are indicative of posters who can’t defend what they do so they move on to exaggerating or misstating the original disagreement, or they drop multiple nonsequitors into the discussion to distract readers like BBfam who obviously doesn’t know what the original posts were about. (not trying to offend you BBfam.)
This post is for the remaining readers and for the 10 or so of you who have pm’d me or emailed me with support for what I’m trying to say.
The original disagreement was about coming into an active thread and either starting **** (like infielddad did) or offering condescending advice to parents who didn’t ask for it (as I showed TPM did in the Pitching section).
Let me provide a relevant example to the readers here…let’s say kids in the 'Players only' section are talking baseball and one kid asks how to handle a certain problem with balancing his studies and his baseball workouts. For an adult to come in and offer something like “well when I was playing I had something similar and here’s what I did….” That kind of stuff is wonderful and any info we could provide the kid would be great and he would certainly appreciate honest responses. Now, what about a second scenario where some kids are in a thread talking baseball and TPM or infielddad drops in and tells the boys they should really be focusing on their grades and shouldn’t be wasting so much time on this site talking baseball. Is that good advice? Maybe. Should any of us drop into that thread and say that to the boys? Absolutely not. Completely rude and condescending. Some old-timers here cannot cannot recognize the difference.
That scenario is very similar to our disagreement over the actual posts by infielddad (he and JB thought posting pics was bragging so they confronted us)…and TPM who offered annoying (to me), uncalled-for life-advice to a guy who asked for and was already receiving technical pitching advice in the Pitchers section of this site.
So now that they have no way to justify what they’re doing, JB and TPM resort to exaggerating everything…...Experienced posters have no right to provide advice, Fungo and others should keep their mouths shut, all the old-timers should never post again in the pre-HS section, etc…..blah, blah, blah.
See what I mean? See how dramatic posters become when they are cornered and don’t have a legit defense for what they do?
One additional nonsequitor from TPM - “Will-Jon, did anyone ask for YOUR opinion?” (I didn’t go into a thread and offer anyone an unsolicited opinion. I was an original poster in this thread.)
And one last condescending comment from TPM….
“I'll stick by my original thought, you have a lot to learn.”
For those of you out there like me that are looking for help for your pre-HS kids, there are some things to be learned from experienced posters on this site. However, unsolicited advice on how to parent my children isn’t one of them. Questioning the motives of parents for posting pictures is not something I want to learn from you. That’s not provocative. It’s rude, condescending, and arrogant.
Thanks to the many of you who have seen this before and have confirmed to me privately what I’m saying about some of the old-timers on this site.
Best wishes to everyone.
Jon
This post is for the remaining readers and for the 10 or so of you who have pm’d me or emailed me with support for what I’m trying to say.
The original disagreement was about coming into an active thread and either starting **** (like infielddad did) or offering condescending advice to parents who didn’t ask for it (as I showed TPM did in the Pitching section).
Let me provide a relevant example to the readers here…let’s say kids in the 'Players only' section are talking baseball and one kid asks how to handle a certain problem with balancing his studies and his baseball workouts. For an adult to come in and offer something like “well when I was playing I had something similar and here’s what I did….” That kind of stuff is wonderful and any info we could provide the kid would be great and he would certainly appreciate honest responses. Now, what about a second scenario where some kids are in a thread talking baseball and TPM or infielddad drops in and tells the boys they should really be focusing on their grades and shouldn’t be wasting so much time on this site talking baseball. Is that good advice? Maybe. Should any of us drop into that thread and say that to the boys? Absolutely not. Completely rude and condescending. Some old-timers here cannot cannot recognize the difference.
That scenario is very similar to our disagreement over the actual posts by infielddad (he and JB thought posting pics was bragging so they confronted us)…and TPM who offered annoying (to me), uncalled-for life-advice to a guy who asked for and was already receiving technical pitching advice in the Pitchers section of this site.
So now that they have no way to justify what they’re doing, JB and TPM resort to exaggerating everything…...Experienced posters have no right to provide advice, Fungo and others should keep their mouths shut, all the old-timers should never post again in the pre-HS section, etc…..blah, blah, blah.
See what I mean? See how dramatic posters become when they are cornered and don’t have a legit defense for what they do?
One additional nonsequitor from TPM - “Will-Jon, did anyone ask for YOUR opinion?” (I didn’t go into a thread and offer anyone an unsolicited opinion. I was an original poster in this thread.)
And one last condescending comment from TPM….
“I'll stick by my original thought, you have a lot to learn.”
For those of you out there like me that are looking for help for your pre-HS kids, there are some things to be learned from experienced posters on this site. However, unsolicited advice on how to parent my children isn’t one of them. Questioning the motives of parents for posting pictures is not something I want to learn from you. That’s not provocative. It’s rude, condescending, and arrogant.
Thanks to the many of you who have seen this before and have confirmed to me privately what I’m saying about some of the old-timers on this site.
Best wishes to everyone.
Jon
Lets see Will. If I added up the PMs and emails I've received thanking me for taking the position I have then I guess we'd have a standoff - huh? He said, she said, blah, blah, blah. To me its a silly way to debate/argue a point really.
Earlier you posted:
Are debate points scored by peronally attacking your opponent? You've done plenty of that.
You bounce back and forth from being reasonable to writing the most condescending posts of all...including very personal attacks. Talk about drama and being cornered?! Like I said, I respect opinions other than my own and I do in fact respect yours.
We disagree. No big deal really. We've made our points. Its too bad you are so angry. Lets move on.
Earlier you posted:
quote:If this were the debate club, you'd be down about a hundred points.
Are debate points scored by peronally attacking your opponent? You've done plenty of that.
quote:See what I mean? See how dramatic posters become when they are cornered and don’t have a legit defense for what they do?
You bounce back and forth from being reasonable to writing the most condescending posts of all...including very personal attacks. Talk about drama and being cornered?! Like I said, I respect opinions other than my own and I do in fact respect yours.
We disagree. No big deal really. We've made our points. Its too bad you are so angry. Lets move on.
I agree with Will/Jon. (and thanks to the other person for the PM ).
You win, TPM. I'm done here. There is nothing of value on this site that I can't get here in Florida from the people that I know. Some of you need to get over yourselves. I can only say that I hope in a few years I won't turn into a pretentiouis jerk with no sense of humor.
Bye.
).You win, TPM. I'm done here. There is nothing of value on this site that I can't get here in Florida from the people that I know. Some of you need to get over yourselves. I can only say that I hope in a few years I won't turn into a pretentiouis jerk with no sense of humor.
Bye.
It saddens me to see that this seemingly innocent subject has turned into a childish "I know you are but what am I?" put down competition.
If in fact some of these posts are written by adults, please think about what the real pre high schoolers must be thinking when they read what is written here.
This is my opinion and I am 100% responsible for it.
If in fact some of these posts are written by adults, please think about what the real pre high schoolers must be thinking when they read what is written here.
This is my opinion and I am 100% responsible for it.
Aside from the discussion about whether or not to post photos of your own player, I just have to say that I am saddened by the few posts here that sound so unappreciative of the "Old Timers" on this site.
The purpose of this site, as ClevelandDad very accurately recapped earlier, is to provide helpful advice to parents and players looking forward to HS baseball, and to help them in the HS years to find a good situation for playing baseball after HS, whether that is in college or beyond. The Old Timers/parents who have been rudely criticized for "intruding" all have players who successfully play or played baseball at top colleges, and many have already moved on to pro ball. This just seems so obvious: Isn't it helpful to receive input from people who have already been where you are seeking to go?
I won't say much more, except to apologize publicly and thank the Old Timers who do stick around and share their experiences with the rest of us, whether newcomers or other Old Timers. Your input and willingness to help parents of younger players is so very valuable, and one of the things that makes this site enormously helpful.
Julie
P.S.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6616002781/m/2201031842
The purpose of this site, as ClevelandDad very accurately recapped earlier, is to provide helpful advice to parents and players looking forward to HS baseball, and to help them in the HS years to find a good situation for playing baseball after HS, whether that is in college or beyond. The Old Timers/parents who have been rudely criticized for "intruding" all have players who successfully play or played baseball at top colleges, and many have already moved on to pro ball. This just seems so obvious: Isn't it helpful to receive input from people who have already been where you are seeking to go?
I won't say much more, except to apologize publicly and thank the Old Timers who do stick around and share their experiences with the rest of us, whether newcomers or other Old Timers. Your input and willingness to help parents of younger players is so very valuable, and one of the things that makes this site enormously helpful.
Julie
P.S.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6616002781/m/2201031842
Julie et al ...
I have read this thread from top to bottom and must say that I have been taken aback by lot of it.
Altho I might be considered one of the 'old timers' myself (at least I was included with a list of them somewhere in this thread), I really think I understand what has bothered the newbies and the parents of the pre-high school players ... and I think that it boils down to their questioning unsolicited comments, in a joyful and enjoyable thread, from someone who is not involved at this level.
'infielddad' presented his question in a respectful way, but I am sure we can all name posters on this site who seem to insinuate their opinions in topics and/or against specific posters that they find offensive. I do not believe for a minute that that is what 'infielddad' was doing, but again, I was not sure why he posed the question.
'infielddad' is a wonderful contributor to this forum ... he has great insight and stories and advice and encouragement for parents and players at all levels ... and has taken (and sent me) some much appreciated pictures of my own son etc. For various reasons, 'infielddad's' son has proven to be a role model for players who attend other than "D-1 major programs" and I have enjoyed following his son and reading his comments on this site. However, again I will admit that even I was a bit surprised at the question, not quite understanding where he was coming from. He has explained himself and I will take that at face value because I admire 'infielddad' and all the help and ENCOURAGEMENT that he has provided many of us over the years.
Being one of the oldie moldies myself, I am sorry to see how this thread has turned around from being enjoyable and joyful to being full of negative comments to and from and between several key posters. We have had similar problems in the past with threads that went on for pages and pages, which resolved nothing and only created bitterness and anger for people who are most likely all very decent human beings.
This is one of those times that we need our dear friends GOTWOOD4SALE and BULLWINKLE to come out and lighten this place up. Perhaps Bully could write a poem appropriate for pre-high school players and Woody could do the illustrations.
All kidding aside, I hope the parents who still want and need advice feel free to come around and ask it, and if they are hesitant to post it on the main boards, perhaps exchanging PM's with the people they feel might be helpful is the way to go. Some of us oldies even have our e-mail addresses published on our 'profiles' for that purpose ... tho I am not much help for much of anything beyond a mother's perspective these days.
Again, I am sorry to see the way this thread has turned out. It was started in May of this year and had just one or two pages of photos before the wheels fell of the old wagon (that is a western expression for those of you not from the Left Coast)
...
To borrow a question from one of our more notorious California residents ... can't we all just get along?
In closing, I thought I would share a picture of the pre-high school futureback.mom playing baseball ....
I have read this thread from top to bottom and must say that I have been taken aback by lot of it.
Altho I might be considered one of the 'old timers' myself (at least I was included with a list of them somewhere in this thread), I really think I understand what has bothered the newbies and the parents of the pre-high school players ... and I think that it boils down to their questioning unsolicited comments, in a joyful and enjoyable thread, from someone who is not involved at this level.
'infielddad' presented his question in a respectful way, but I am sure we can all name posters on this site who seem to insinuate their opinions in topics and/or against specific posters that they find offensive. I do not believe for a minute that that is what 'infielddad' was doing, but again, I was not sure why he posed the question.
'infielddad' is a wonderful contributor to this forum ... he has great insight and stories and advice and encouragement for parents and players at all levels ... and has taken (and sent me) some much appreciated pictures of my own son etc. For various reasons, 'infielddad's' son has proven to be a role model for players who attend other than "D-1 major programs" and I have enjoyed following his son and reading his comments on this site. However, again I will admit that even I was a bit surprised at the question, not quite understanding where he was coming from. He has explained himself and I will take that at face value because I admire 'infielddad' and all the help and ENCOURAGEMENT that he has provided many of us over the years.
Being one of the oldie moldies myself, I am sorry to see how this thread has turned around from being enjoyable and joyful to being full of negative comments to and from and between several key posters. We have had similar problems in the past with threads that went on for pages and pages, which resolved nothing and only created bitterness and anger for people who are most likely all very decent human beings.
This is one of those times that we need our dear friends GOTWOOD4SALE and BULLWINKLE to come out and lighten this place up. Perhaps Bully could write a poem appropriate for pre-high school players and Woody could do the illustrations.
All kidding aside, I hope the parents who still want and need advice feel free to come around and ask it, and if they are hesitant to post it on the main boards, perhaps exchanging PM's with the people they feel might be helpful is the way to go. Some of us oldies even have our e-mail addresses published on our 'profiles' for that purpose ... tho I am not much help for much of anything beyond a mother's perspective these days.
Again, I am sorry to see the way this thread has turned out. It was started in May of this year and had just one or two pages of photos before the wheels fell of the old wagon (that is a western expression for those of you not from the Left Coast)
To borrow a question from one of our more notorious California residents ... can't we all just get along?
In closing, I thought I would share a picture of the pre-high school futureback.mom playing baseball ....
As one of the original 'offenders" I'll offer my motivation. I love my children, as I'm sure each and every member does whether an oldtimer or newbie. Doesn't matter whether they are first round material or LL soso, we all love baseball or we wouldn't be here. That your offspring has had sucess has very little to do with you. Walk into surgery and let them know your sister is a surgeon and see how impressed everyone is... Either you enjoy showing pictures of your family or you don't. This much should be obvious to even a casual observer, take a quick look around your workplace, I'm sure you'll find much the same. If in fact you are old and tired, go away, you are likely too darn cranky to be of much help anyway. On the other hand, if you care to share your vast experience, trust many of us will appreciate it. Just don't ask us not to be proud of our kids good looks
Fungo had some nice positive comments on page 1 
I for one who not put pics of my child on this website, mainly because I do not want to post them on photobucket or some other website of that type. But I will not dog someone else for doing so. JMO. And by the way I have enjoyed the pics that are posted here. 
I also very much appreciate all the info that the "oldtimers" bring to the table. I know that I have learned alot in the past couple of months. I do not always agree with what they say. Not to say that in a couple of years I might agree with them fully. But I do listen.
The one thing I know for sure is that sometimes tempers flare a little more than they should and sometimes we are quick to anger or quick to judge. I also know that if all the "oldtimers" left we would be in very sad shape. It would be a bunch of us newbies trying to figure things out on our own without the knowledge of the "wise ones".
I for one do not want to see it come to that. I started posting and asking questions because I wanted to be a sponge and soak up all the knowledge that the "oldtimers" have. To take advantage of the assistance that those who have gone before us are willing to give.
This newbie really appreciates all the advice that I have been given. Thank you.
I also very much appreciate all the info that the "oldtimers" bring to the table. I know that I have learned alot in the past couple of months. I do not always agree with what they say. Not to say that in a couple of years I might agree with them fully. But I do listen.
The one thing I know for sure is that sometimes tempers flare a little more than they should and sometimes we are quick to anger or quick to judge. I also know that if all the "oldtimers" left we would be in very sad shape. It would be a bunch of us newbies trying to figure things out on our own without the knowledge of the "wise ones".
I for one do not want to see it come to that. I started posting and asking questions because I wanted to be a sponge and soak up all the knowledge that the "oldtimers" have. To take advantage of the assistance that those who have gone before us are willing to give.
This newbie really appreciates all the advice that I have been given. Thank you.
quote:Originally posted by Callaway:
Thought it might be cool to post some pics of our Pre-HS boys.
Just thought I'd remind everyone what was said in the original post for this tread. And it was by an OLDTIMER!!!
I don't think there has been any bragging, any promoting, any insinuation that the boys in these pictures are guaranteed first round pics.
Simply pictures of our beautiful children playing the greatest game in the world.
In the words of the great Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" This, of course, was uttered just before he said "Ouch, stop hitting me!"
I just returned home from coaching a double-header which I'm sure is shocking to some here.
Julie, that was a very sweet post (and I really mean that sincerely). But you're simply perpetuating the problem by saying the following:
"The Old Timers/parents who have been rudely criticized for "intruding" all have players who successfully play or played baseball at top colleges, and many have already moved on to pro ball. This just seems so obvious: Isn't it helpful to receive input from people who have already been where you are seeking to go?"
I have one very simple question for you Julie... by posting pictures of our sons in this thread, what 'help' or 'advice' were we seeking from infielddad?
That's not a hard question. But it goes directly to the core of the problem here.
Jon
Julie, that was a very sweet post (and I really mean that sincerely). But you're simply perpetuating the problem by saying the following:
"The Old Timers/parents who have been rudely criticized for "intruding" all have players who successfully play or played baseball at top colleges, and many have already moved on to pro ball. This just seems so obvious: Isn't it helpful to receive input from people who have already been where you are seeking to go?"
I have one very simple question for you Julie... by posting pictures of our sons in this thread, what 'help' or 'advice' were we seeking from infielddad?
That's not a hard question. But it goes directly to the core of the problem here.
Jon
The pre HS photos are great! Please keep posting them! They remind me of when the game was pure - innocent - and the dreams are bigger than life
couldn't be anything wrong with that???
For Your Consideration --- Before I found this site and then in the early days of membership here, I would read the message boards on some of the showcase company sites. On those sites, there was a great deal of player promotion, smack talk, and personal jabs. Bob (the originator of the site) and Julie (his well-chosen heir), and the many moderators have put in an unimaginable amount of work to try to keep any hint of that sort of behavior happening here.
I am not suggesting I believe posting pictures makes a parent guilty of any of that, but I have seen a few posts around the site from new posters that lean in that direction. Understandably, those Old Timers who saw how useless that activity was on the other sites would want to head that off at the proverbial pass.
Any written word can be misinterpreted because of lack of vocal inflection.
And once some posters have gotten their knickers in a twist, no further comment/explanation seems to be able to get them unbound. (And I'm willing to bet that that statement will be interpreted as referring to The Other Guy)
But if you find yourself posting something about another member that includes words that need to be censored out (other than the S word for footie), "idiot" (in another thread), rude personal remarks, or anything implying that someone has no right to comment , you might want to rethink your attitude toward this Player-Parent Cooperative. And read the Board Manners link.
We all have the right to post on whatever thread we're moved to; it's not up to the other posters to suggest that our opinions need to be invited...by them (?).
It has also been a tradition here to not pass comment on other posters' grammar, spelling, or sentence construction, primarily because none of us would want to discourage posting by players, in particular. And everyone has made the odd typing mistake.
This isn't the first time there has been a newbie-oldie contretemps; it happens every year or so. We've lost some extremely valuable members this way; perhaps the newer members might keep in mind that this site as a whole has had considerable experience and sometimes a response to something they've posted might be because an Old Timer sees a warning flag based on that collective experience. Perhaps the Old Timers might be more forthcoming about why they've taken umbrage to something as they are seeing an Early Warning Sign.
I am not suggesting I believe posting pictures makes a parent guilty of any of that, but I have seen a few posts around the site from new posters that lean in that direction. Understandably, those Old Timers who saw how useless that activity was on the other sites would want to head that off at the proverbial pass.
Any written word can be misinterpreted because of lack of vocal inflection.
And once some posters have gotten their knickers in a twist, no further comment/explanation seems to be able to get them unbound. (And I'm willing to bet that that statement will be interpreted as referring to The Other Guy
)But if you find yourself posting something about another member that includes words that need to be censored out (other than the S word for footie
), "idiot" (in another thread), rude personal remarks, or anything implying that someone has no right to comment , you might want to rethink your attitude toward this Player-Parent Cooperative. And read the Board Manners link.We all have the right to post on whatever thread we're moved to; it's not up to the other posters to suggest that our opinions need to be invited...by them (?).
It has also been a tradition here to not pass comment on other posters' grammar, spelling, or sentence construction, primarily because none of us would want to discourage posting by players, in particular. And everyone has made the odd typing mistake.
This isn't the first time there has been a newbie-oldie contretemps; it happens every year or so. We've lost some extremely valuable members this way; perhaps the newer members might keep in mind that this site as a whole has had considerable experience and sometimes a response to something they've posted might be because an Old Timer sees a warning flag based on that collective experience. Perhaps the Old Timers might be more forthcoming about why they've taken umbrage to something as they are seeing an Early Warning Sign.
This thread looked like such a fun way to make a Web Site feel more personal. No resume' just a picture. It seemed to go so well earlier, I didn't see the harm.PS please forgive the spelling its getting late here.
quote:people here do understand.
To everyone - I am sorry for (unintentionally) ruining this thread. It is my fault that the debate ran for so long. I should have expressed my thought once and then moved on. I apologize.
Most especially to infielddad - I am really sorry that I have probably turned a spotlight onto one of the most genuinely kind, helpful and good-hearted people I have ever met. I'll see you at the Goose sometime this Fall.
To Julie - Thank you for the kinds words about oldies. I am sorry that now you too got blamed for perpetuating the problem. You did not IMO, it is my fault it went on so long.
To TPM - You even liked the pictures, yet you got slammed too just for trying to aid a friend. I am sorry to you too.
To the angry/offended/hurt newbies - In my view you over-reacted to what was originally intended as a relatively minor point and a defense of a very good man and friend. But since some of you have been so offended, I am sorry to you too. It was never meant that way. I mean that sincerely.
Anyone who wants to remain angry at someone, please just direct it at me. Please get off infielddad's and TPM's back. They're good people and you can learn an awful lot from them if you're willing to listen.
I will offer one final opinion on this topic by stating that I think deldad had (to me) about the best view on this whole thing...which hopefully does not now put him into any hot water given that I liked it. It has a little happiness/love for each of the viewpoints expressed here within it. I have XX-ed out a fairly kind remark he made towards me because that part is not really important to his overall thoughts. For convencience I will re-post it here (Its on page 4 of this thread):
And lastly, I don't hate your pictures. Photography is a passion of mine and I have zillions of my own kids and their teammates over the years. We headed quickly off to other angles of discussion and somehow that got tangled with whether or not I thought the pictures were cute or fun to look at. They are/were. Post them all you want.
I am done posting here on this site...at least for a while. To my good friends here, PM or email me if you wanna chat from time-to-time.
To all, please relax and enjoy this truly terrific site and I sincerely wish the very best to you all and most especially to your children.
Cheers!
Most especially to infielddad - I am really sorry that I have probably turned a spotlight onto one of the most genuinely kind, helpful and good-hearted people I have ever met. I'll see you at the Goose sometime this Fall.
To Julie - Thank you for the kinds words about oldies. I am sorry that now you too got blamed for perpetuating the problem. You did not IMO, it is my fault it went on so long.
To TPM - You even liked the pictures, yet you got slammed too just for trying to aid a friend. I am sorry to you too.
To the angry/offended/hurt newbies - In my view you over-reacted to what was originally intended as a relatively minor point and a defense of a very good man and friend. But since some of you have been so offended, I am sorry to you too. It was never meant that way. I mean that sincerely.
Anyone who wants to remain angry at someone, please just direct it at me. Please get off infielddad's and TPM's back. They're good people and you can learn an awful lot from them if you're willing to listen.
I will offer one final opinion on this topic by stating that I think deldad had (to me) about the best view on this whole thing...which hopefully does not now put him into any hot water given that I liked it. It has a little happiness/love for each of the viewpoints expressed here within it. I have XX-ed out a fairly kind remark he made towards me because that part is not really important to his overall thoughts. For convencience I will re-post it here (Its on page 4 of this thread):
quote:Interesting discussion. I am going to fall in the middle of the road, which will probably get me run over but here goes. I wouldn't post a picture of my pre HS player because he wouldn't want me to. He barely likes his picture taken and displayed in the house. Other than that to each his own.
Most people who have come on this site to promote their kids over the years have found it is not a generally accepted practice and usually amend their ways or leave. Any promotion usually is greated with skepticism.
As for identifying your kid, i don't recall if I have ever done it myself. I don't believe so. I have done it by situation. I think that a number of people have had unique situations happen to their kids, me included, and the information that has been shared by others has been useful and I hope some of mine has been useful. ***X-deleted text here-***X.
My kids do not need me to promote them. They will take care of that themselves. I try to learn more on this site than I share. There is no right or wrong way to post, just be considerate of others opinions, and remember you learn more by reading than by typing.
And lastly, I don't hate your pictures. Photography is a passion of mine and I have zillions of my own kids and their teammates over the years. We headed quickly off to other angles of discussion and somehow that got tangled with whether or not I thought the pictures were cute or fun to look at. They are/were. Post them all you want.
I am done posting here on this site...at least for a while. To my good friends here, PM or email me if you wanna chat from time-to-time.
To all, please relax and enjoy this truly terrific site and I sincerely wish the very best to you all and most especially to your children.
Cheers!
Mornin' JBB-whatcha doing up so late? Me? Waiting for uniforms in the hotel of course. Mom's jobs go way beyond game time 
Suppose if a young person were to come to this site, he would probably go right to the pre-high school forum. As would anyone new who had a pre high school child.
Gotta admit, I really enjoyed the photos a lot. Is there a way to seperate a thread, so the photos can continue and the debate about them can be in a different thread.
Oddly enough, as so often happens, I'm not sure the debate has anything to do with the pictures any longer.
Gotta admit, I really enjoyed the photos a lot. Is there a way to seperate a thread, so the photos can continue and the debate about them can be in a different thread.
Oddly enough, as so often happens, I'm not sure the debate has anything to do with the pictures any longer.
Nice suggestion, PG.
I like the pictures too. I have a bunch of youth baseball pics. Posting pictures of a kid you are proud of is a good thing. It's too bad all kids don't have parents or at least one parent, or someone, anyone proud of him or her, enough to take pictures and post them somewhere. It's not bragging, which I don't consider unhealthy by itself, anyway. jmo
Bragging (probably a better word could be used) about your son is fine, if done correctly and you don't wear people out with it. (IMO) Posting pictures is not bragging or even promoting.
I think most people are more turned off by self promotion. I don't know much about many things, but I'm an expert when it comes to recognizing self promotion. You're all amateurs if comparing to what we see nearly every day. Would gladly trade places if you don’t believe.
Wish I could display to you all, some of the things we hear and see. There are people who would make you walk (or even run if need be) a mile out of your way, just to avoid another discussion about their son. I’m sure everyone has experienced this to some degree. Just not the degree that we experience it. That said, luckily, most people are not like that.
If you find yourself sitting alone a lot and it’s not because you want to be… You might want to have a little talk with yourself. You might be guilty of making those around you SICK! Start bragging about your son’s team mates all the time and you will regain your popularity.
Tip… Do not listen to me, I have received severe brain damage over the past 15 years. I think it's called Parentitus! I'd have gone off the deep end if it weren't for the kids themselves. They're usually great!
I think most people are more turned off by self promotion. I don't know much about many things, but I'm an expert when it comes to recognizing self promotion. You're all amateurs if comparing to what we see nearly every day. Would gladly trade places if you don’t believe.
Wish I could display to you all, some of the things we hear and see. There are people who would make you walk (or even run if need be) a mile out of your way, just to avoid another discussion about their son. I’m sure everyone has experienced this to some degree. Just not the degree that we experience it. That said, luckily, most people are not like that.
If you find yourself sitting alone a lot and it’s not because you want to be… You might want to have a little talk with yourself. You might be guilty of making those around you SICK! Start bragging about your son’s team mates all the time and you will regain your popularity.
Tip… Do not listen to me, I have received severe brain damage over the past 15 years. I think it's called Parentitus! I'd have gone off the deep end if it weren't for the kids themselves. They're usually great!