Prep Baseball Report

Now this should be a very stimulating link...
My only problem with PBR the magazine is that due to staff size it only covers the north, north part of Illinois....It really isn't a True State of Illinois Baseball Magazine... but it is a START...
their showcases have been known to have some of the better players in the area----unfortunately again--the Northern only part of the state..
Have not been personally to any of events and do not know what type of recruiters or scouts attend..

You have a PM Bravescoach.

Woodly, got to disagree, the last edition does a great job of representing the state.

quote:

Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
You have a PM Bravescoach.

Back atcha J.

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:
Woodly, got to disagree, the last edition does a great job of representing the state.

The entire STATE OF ILLINOIS does go past I-80...Go through the entire list of players in the last edition and let me know how many players are SOUTH of I-80.
Then check to see how many players are listed that are from South of Champaign...to the Cairo line.

that is what i mean the entire state of Illinois and he is only 1 man...he depends on the high school coaches alot and sometimes that is a problem...Without other peoples help or a LARGER STAFF and PBR SHOWCASES being put on in ALL AREAS not just the NORTHERN PART of the state;; the PREP BASEBALL REPORT MAGAZINE WILL always shortchange some good talented kids...

SEAN DOES A GREAT JOB as i have said before but isn't there anyway PBR can get names and information on the top players throughout the State of Illinois

Woodly, thanks for the geography lesson, I have got too many other things to do than to count the players south of I-80, I trust that PBR has made an effort to cover the states most southern regions. Lastly, Not sure what your point is if you already acknowledge that athletes from the southern regions have received recognition. I do believe that those showcases are open to any and all participants no matter their geography.

quote:

Originally posted by Playball2:
Woodly, thanks for the geography lesson, I have got too many other things to do than to count the players south of I-80, I trust that PBR has made an effort to cover the states most southern regions. Lastly, Not sure what your point is if you already acknowledge that athletes from the southern regions have received recognition. I do believe that those showcases are open to any and all participants no matter their geography.

You are the one who stated the magazine covered the State of Illinois well....so the geography lesson must be needed..I am sure you reside in the NW suburbs where the majority of the attention is given by PBR and the majority of their "showcases" are held...
My point is that if you are putting out a publication and are going to RANK kids on their abilities and pretend it is for the ENTIRE STATE OF ILLINOIS... then you need to evaluate the kids statewide...
Most of the athletes who received recognition(writeups) have participated in the PBR events..The name listings have come from other coaches from areas or some of PBR correspondents..
i hear the kids all the time in areas south of I-80 wonder why they can't get listed in this publication.....or how this kid who they played against is ranked #34 etc........
I have no response for them because I am not sure there is an answer to that other then
YOU MUST ATTEND AND PAY TO GO TO THEIR EVENTS IN ORDER TO GET IN THE BOOK AND GET FOLLOWED....
Is this the purpose of the magazine? Was this the original intention of the magazine? Publicize the kids that come to your event?
This is in no way criticizing PBR....and Sean Duncan...It is merely pointing out that if they are going to claim it is an ILLINOIS HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL PUBLICATION then improve their staff statewide and coverage statewide to see all of the players personally .... and stop the RANKING OF PLAYERS...
THERE ARE PLAYERS IN SPRINGFIELD ILLINOIS
AND THE CENTRAL PART OF THE STATE.. I am not a genius but when reading the magazine I realize it is not a statewide publication. Yes, I do subscribe to it...or have in the past.

Nice PG article linked here about the issues they face with their lists, and rankings. Some of these issues surely cross-over to other entities that run showcases, and list and rank kids. The kids that go, get on the lists and ranked, the one's that don't, don't. The rankings continually grow and change as new kids get evaluated, or as the kids that have already been evaluated progress or don't progress ... or don't continue to attend the showcases to be re-assessed. Interesting question, how much of the onus is on the kid to get to the ranking service, versus the ranking service to find the kid and get them to attend? It takes two to tango. It isn't perfect, but you probably knew that anyways.

Blowing Off Steam

quote:

Originally posted by Tuzigoot:
Nice PG article linked here about the issues they face with their lists, and rankings. Some of these issues surely cross-over to other entities that run showcases, and list and rank kids. The kids that go, get on the lists and ranked, the one's that don't, don't. The rankings continually grow and change as new kids get evaluated, or as the kids that have already been evaluated progress or don't progress ... or don't continue to attend the showcases to be re-assessed. It isn't perfect, but and probably knew that anyways.

Excellent article which explains how PERFECT GAME DOES THINGS...but I am sure that PBR Sean Duncan does not evaluate the players....so who does evaluate and just who does the Rankings.????.
This information might just help sell some more subcriptons to the publication.. I know it will help me explain to kids when they ask me about it..

Blowing Off Steam

quote:

how much of the onus is on the kid to get to the ranking service, versus the ranking service to find the kid and get them to attend?

what do you think wood?

That is a good article.

As a parent, I once voiced that one of my sons was unfairly rated at a showcase. I probably had good cause due to the circumstances to think so, but it really never mattered and either way no matter how good my son was or wasn't had nothing to do with how good another player was.

Rankings are...well....rankings. They serve whatever purpose to different people. To a player, it may be a source of pride, but does it help him on the field? To a parent it is much the same, but I would hope they would support their son no matter where (or whether) he is ranked.

To a coach trying to win a game or develope a player, it probably means nothing. To a recruiter or scout it may get some attention, but when they actually see the player, the ranking probably means a lot less than what they see with their own eyes. I would venture to guess it is far worse to be way overrated than to be a sleeper.

To a fan, it is fun.

Regardless, if you read too much into this as a player, parent, coach or scout you are probably making a mistake. Rankings serve a purpose, but I have a feeling that the people who think that they are an end-all aren't the ones who matter.

JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Tuzigoot:

quote:

how much of the onus is on the kid to get to the ranking service, versus the ranking service to find the kid and get them to attend?

what do you think wood?

If we are talking about the kids responsibility to get to a 2nd year publications ranking service....i think it is none.........
the kids responsibility is to put himself in a situation to get seen and market himself someway to try and get in the right place at the right time..
My personal opinion the kids need to get to the schools personal camps prior to going to a PBR showcase to get into their magazine...
If a kid has 4 or 5 schools he would love to attend and play the game---he should get in their CAMPS and make sure the coaches at those schools see them...

Wood I think each player, with the assistance of his coach(s) and parents, should decide what is right for them. However if it is decided that a ranking service is one of the ways to go, then IMO it is your job to get to the ranking service. Not even the big boy has showcases within 3-5 hours of every player that would like to attend. It takes a commitment from the player's side.

The "SHOWCASES" are wearing themselves out..too many and the college coaches are worn out trying to get to all of the events.
You are right...it is the parents and kid who has to decide..I am just killing time right now but I still would like to know who RANKS the players for the PBR SHOWCASES..???? ANYONE OUT THERE know? names please and positions

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
That is a good article.

As a parent, I once voiced that one of my sons was unfairly rated at a showcase. I probably had good cause due to the circumstances to think so, but it really never mattered and either way no matter how good my son was or wasn't had nothing to do with how good another player was.

Rankings are...well....rankings. They serve whatever purpose to different people. To a player, it may be a source of pride, but does it help him on the field? To a parent it is much the same, but I would hope they would support their son no matter where (or whether) he is ranked.

To a coach trying to win a game or develope a player, it probably means nothing. To a recruiter or scout it may get some attention, but when they actually see the player, the ranking probably means a lot less than what they see with their own eyes. I would venture to guess it is far worse to be way overrated than to be a sleeper.

To a fan, it is fun.

Regardless, if you read too much into this as a player, parent, coach or scout you are probably making a mistake. Rankings serve a purpose, but I have a feeling that the people who think that they are an end-all aren't the ones who matter.

JMHO

great ending..."I have a feeling that the people who think that they are an end=all aren't the ones who matter....." good job!!!!

quote:

I am just killing time right now but I still would like to know who RANKS the players for the PBR SHOWCASES..???? ANYONE OUT THERE know? names please and positions

Woodly...I was told that PBR is owned and operated by Full Package/Top Tier which would account for a number of things.

quote:

Originally posted by woodly:

quote:

Originally posted by Tuzigoot:

quote:

how much of the onus is on the kid to get to the ranking service, versus the ranking service to find the kid and get them to attend?

what do you think wood?

If we are talking about the kids responsibility to get to a 2nd year publications ranking service....i think it is none.........
the kids responsibility is to put himself in a situation to get seen and market himself someway to try and get in the right place at the right time..
My personal opinion the kids need to get to the schools personal camps prior to going to a PBR showcase to get into their magazine...
If a kid has 4 or 5 schools he would love to attend and play the game---he should get in their CAMPS and make sure the coaches at those schools see them...

I agree completely. Most scouts will tell you that they pay little, or no, attention to 3rd party rankings for a whole host of reasons. Instead, and in my opinion, a prospect's money is much better spent on attending a specific school's camp and/or producing a personal video which can be sent to his school(s) of choice. In short, we need to educate these kids on how to market themselves and quit relying on (and paying for) others to do so. I, for one, am more than willing to do this free of charge for my players. Interesting enough, nowhere in any of these scouting services are grades emphasized which is something that I stress heavily. Without a solid GPA and ACT score, one's baseball "rank" means nothing nor does his pop-time, 60yd dash, or mph. Last I checked, they are still referred to as STUDENT ATHLETES.

If we are talking about the kids responsibility to get to a 2nd year publications ranking service....i think it is none.........
the kids responsibility is to put himself in a situation to get seen and market himself someway to try and get in the right place at the right time..[/quote]

Isn't this the same thing,for someone who has no intention of criticising the publication, it appears that you are being critical.

From PBR:I am certain you will not find a more comprehensive publication that exclusively covers Illinois high school baseball. Illinois has an overwhelming amount of talented players and teams. It is my job to promote the players, events, happenings, and teams.

I believe he has stood behind his words.

Woodly states:
You are the one who stated the magazine covered the State of Illinois well.

Woodly, got to disagree, the last edition does a great job of representing the state.

Not even close

We still don't have the answer from anyone so I cannot pass it on to the kids who ask me... I am again not being critical of PBR regardless of how you take it...It is a 2nd year publication with a limited staff that does a good job in the Northern Part of the entire state of Illinois--I wish someone would start one for Central Illinois and Southern Illinois so we could get a real good picture of the top players in Illinois..and read about the good teams and games in Illinois... Big job and Duncan does a good job in the North..just need it to cover the rest of the state...

who evaluates the players and ranks the players that PBR lists? Names and positions please

I try to get all of the names and info I have to Sean. Sometimes a kid gets ranked where I think they should, sometimes not.

quote:

Originally posted by SIBullets:
I try to get all of the names and info I have to Sean. Sometimes a kid gets ranked where I think they should, sometimes not.

so How does PBR rank the kids that they haven't seen?

I guess by getting reports from the downstate guys like me and Diggle.

Email Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by SIBullets:
I guess by getting reports from the downstate guys like me and Diggle.

The pBR needs to get more of you and more of Diggle around the state and then go and evaluate those kids with their "evaluators and rankers" - whoever they are?

still looking for that answer...No one seems to want to respond..or maybe no one KNOWS

Woodly, not sure of your agenda. Seems like you enjoy talking out of both sides of your mouth. You are out there prasing Duece for his dedication and doing the right thing. There have been postings on here for Duece/Sparky/? that he has disappeared on. Such as what happen to the Connie Mack fiasco. He thought he had a FREE ride to Michigan regional, my understanding is people had reservation already booked. He never addressed the mishap, still looking for answers also? But it is ok for Duece (your buddy) to disappoint individuals and you praise him.

Yet, PBR which objectively is trying to do the right thing by starting a publication to benefit all Illinois players, you bash him. Is PBR perfect, no. Do they find every top player, no but it is a starting to help get exposure for many individual palyers who may not have had the opportunity themselves. Have they help a lot of players, Yes. Sorry if they are not the players you chose.
What is your agenda? If you can do it better please by all means put yourself out there. Come out with a better product so we can sit in judgement of you. If not "stifle it Edith" love those old shows.

High Heat

I believe Wood complimented Coop on getting kids an oppritunity to play baseball. That was a different post....How is saying Coop does a nice job related to PBR not knowing or seeing all the kids in the state?.

The fact is and I think Wood pointed out they simply cannot do the entire state without more help. SI Bullets wrote him and Diggle in Peoria send stuff but who knows what is sent and what is done with it. I do know for a fact that some college coaches have laughed at the ommission of some downstate players who have just in the last few days given verbals.

It is what it is and I am sure if you go back you will see Wood did not degrade PBR, in fact he complimented them however, just asked a question

So not to butt into the issue you brought up with Connie Mack but you are mixing two issues and appears to include a hidden agenda/vendetta.

Woodly:

Locating and tracking players across the entire state is initially very difficult, especially when players are underclassmen. Indeed, the magazine focuses heavily on the greater Chicagoland area, partly because I reside there, but also because a large percentage of the state's population resides there. In regards to players in the southern part of the state, I rely on certain people and coaches to give me names of players. And if a player has a lot of buzz about him, I usually always follow up on him. Take Jake Odorizzi for example. Last spring several scouts told me about him, so I made sure to see him ... and the scouts were right - he is the No. 1 ranked player in the state.

Jake Odorizzi, for the record, never attended a PBR showcase in the past, nor did many other players who are featured in the magazine. The magazine doesn't focus only on players who attend PBR events. A good player is a good player, no matter where he is seen. The issue for many kids, however, is getting seen. One place to do that is at a showcase, whether it's a PBR, PG, a Diamond Sports tournament, or where ever.

Do I miss kids? Of course. It's impossible not to. By the time it's all said and done, I think I'm pretty close.

quote:

Originally posted by PBR:
Woodly:

Locating and tracking players across the entire state is initially very difficult, especially when players are underclassmen. Indeed, the magazine focuses heavily on the greater Chicagoland area, partly because I reside there, but also because a large percentage of the state's population resides there. In regards to players in the southern part of the state, I rely on certain people and coaches to give me names of players. And if a player has a lot of buzz about him, I usually always follow up on him. Take Jake Odorizzi for example. Last spring several scouts told me about him, so I made sure to see him ... and the scouts were right - he is the No. 1 ranked player in the state.

Jake Odorizzi, for the record, never attended a PBR showcase in the past, nor did many other players who are featured in the magazine. The magazine doesn't focus only on players who attend PBR events. A good player is a good player, no matter where he is seen. The issue for many kids, however, is getting seen. One place to do that is at a showcase, whether it's a PBR, PG, a Diamond Sports tournament, or where ever.

Do I miss kids? Of course. It's impossible not to. By the time it's all said and done, I think I'm pretty close.

Sean- that is my point....It is difficult to see everyone- impossible--but when you and the guys are sitting there thinking about improvements--- think about what i said... SOMEONE NEEDS TO follow the kids and programs I-80 South and PBR pay them...
Increased coverage means increased subscriptions- and if you are going to "pretend" to represent the entire state of Illinois--- then expansion needs to be done..
I have not criticized the PBR publication with the exception of the RANKING OF PLAYERS... it effects the kids whether you believe it or not.. The kids "Others to Watch_" with a number next to it is not good for their moral at all....
THE REAL question that needs to be answered but no one will give it to us is who ranks the players
name the people involved in the ranking of players
and their credentials... That is what everyone is asking about?
Keep up the good work in Northern Illinois but all I am after- my only motive- is to have all kids in the state represented...not just North.of I_-80...

quote:

Originally posted by HighHeat28:
Woodly, not sure of your agenda. Seems like you enjoy talking out of both sides of your mouth. You are out there prasing Duece for his dedication and doing the right thing. There have been postings on here for Duece/Sparky/? that he has disappeared on. Such as what happen to the Connie Mack fiasco. He thought he had a FREE ride to Michigan regional, my understanding is people had reservation already booked. He never addressed the mishap, still looking for answers also? But it is ok for Duece (your buddy) to disappoint individuals and you praise him.

Yet, PBR which objectively is trying to do the right thing by starting a publication to benefit all Illinois players, you bash him. Is PBR perfect, no. Do they find every top player, no but it is a starting to help get exposure for many individual palyers who may not have had the opportunity themselves. Have they help a lot of players, Yes. Sorry if they are not the players you chose.
What is your agenda? If you can do it better please by all means put yourself out there. Come out with a better product so we can sit in judgement of you. If not "stifle it Edith" love those old shows.

just wonder what your agenda is? Do you know who rates the players for PBR since no one wants to say?
Man, its not me...I don't compete with anyone...I don't favor one over another..Check my track record..I am a baseball man and do a good job of helping kids get where they want to be...I am not a recruiting service charging $1300 per kid, I am not doing a bunch of exposure camps but I do put on tourneys at Colleges for these kids when the coaches at the schools request it...Thats All I do...
I am no expert but I am not over the hill and blind as some people think... I THINK I HAVE PRAISED TOP TIER before and i believe they have a good program also...Todd Fine and Sean Duncan do a great job...I WOULD JUST like to see it expanded and would love to know who RANKS THE PLAYERS..

Don't quote me but I believe Sean ranks the players, I know he gets input from a number of other personel.

I rank the players in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by PBR:
I rank the players in the end.

and who evaluates the players and gives you their input to allow you to rank the players...because you are always up front with your baseball abilities and knowlege.....

I have heard rumors and i want to see if it is the Top Tier staff doing the ranking and evaluations?

quote:

Originally posted by woodly:

I have heard rumors and i want to see if it is the Top Tier staff doing the ranking and evaluations?

Why didn't you just say that in your first post, as if you're fooling anyone who has their ear to the ground? Rumors, hmmmm. And I suppose you have no idea where those rumors originated, or from whom?

quote:

and who evaluates the players and gives you their input to allow you to rank the players...because you are always up front with your baseball abilities and knowlege.....

I have heard rumors and i want to see if it is the Top Tier staff doing the ranking and evaluations?

Woodly, is this your idea of not being critical or having an agenda to your prior posts?

woody, you clearly have an agenda, who ranks your events as the best? as you have stated several times on here, give it a rest!

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo Master:
woody, you clearly have an agenda, who ranks your events as the best? as you have stated several times on here, give it a rest!

No one ranks my events as the best....they are just opportunities for teams....nothing else.. The teams who enter the events make it the best according to the recruiters...
The rumors must be true because we can't get a simple answer....and I heard those reports from a few college coaches and pro scouts who have attended the events.. So I will leave it alone and pass on the implied TRUTH...to the parents south of I-80 who ask me about it...
If you look back at my posts; find somewhere I was very critical of PBR...I just needed some questions answered and this forum was the best way to show the parents the answers they were looking for...
Just wanted someone to confirm it and if it is true----no problem with me--

quote:

Originally posted by woodly:
The two best tourneys in Illinois for scouts and recruiters have been Diamond Sports Promotions Fun in the Sun at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale and the Top Collegiate Prospect Tourney at Illinois State University in Bloomington-Normal Illinois
Diamond Sports also goes to Univefrsity of Evansville this year..These tourneys are always well scouted by colleges and pro scouts
Go to www.diamondsportspromotions.com for details of all of their events

look familar????????????????? according to who, anyone west of route 39?

We attended the tournament down at Southern a couple of summers ago...and it was great! Nothing more I can add to that.

The only problem we had was getting caught up in and slowed down by the Williamson Co. Sheriff's Department Road Check just south of the airport on Route 13...and I'm sure Woodly had nothing to do with that!



Don't get me wrong...they were very professional...just doing their job. The word going around that night was they were looking for foul balls that had not been returned to the field! I'm glad I threw all of the one's I retrieved back!
.
.
.


Yup...just south of the airport right there on route 13.
.
.
.


Like shooting fish in a pond!
.
.
.

One of the deputies relaxing back at the station with that night's take!
.
.
.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo Master:

quote:

Originally posted by woodly:
The two best tourneys in Illinois for scouts and recruiters have been Diamond Sports Promotions Fun in the Sun at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale and the Top Collegiate Prospect Tourney at Illinois State University in Bloomington-Normal Illinois
Diamond Sports also goes to Univefrsity of Evansville this year..These tourneys are always well scouted by colleges and pro scouts
Go to www.diamondsportspromotions.com for details of all of their events

look familar????????????????? according to who, anyone west of route 39?

according to the number of teams and recruiters who showed up....The two best is referring to the best of Diamond Sports Promotions events; not comparing to any other tourneys by any other company but you might --- 44 teams at Illinois State last year should pretty well speak for itself...