quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
We attended the tournament down at Southern a couple of summers ago...and it was great! Nothing more I can add to that.
The only problem we had was getting caught up in and slowed down by the Williamson Co. Sheriff's Department Road Check just south of the airport on Route 13...and I'm sure Woodly had nothing to do with that!
Sure am glad you are on these forums...You definitely bring some good laughter to it...Wish I knew who that sheriff was in that bathtub full of baseballs....Think he was hired by some teams to retrieve teh PRACTICE BALLS we used last year....
Don't get me wrong...they were very professional...just doing their job. The word going around that night was they were looking for foul balls that had not been returned to the field! I'm glad I threw all of the one's I retrieved back!
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Yup...just south of the airport right there on route 13.
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Like shooting fish in a pond!
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One of the deputies relaxing back at the station with that night's take!
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quote:Originally posted by woodly:
Sure am glad you are on these forums...You definitely bring some good laughter to it...Wish I knew who that sheriff was in that bathtub full of baseballs....Think he was hired by some teams to retrieve teh PRACTICE BALLS we used last year....
Glad to help woodly!
quote:Originally posted by Bravescoach:
a prospect's money is much better spent on attending a specific school's camp and/or producing a personal video which can be sent to his school(s) of choice.
With all due respect, I would disagree with advising kids to attend coaches camps as a venue for exposure. Coaches camps main purpose is to raise revenue for the coaches and program. Comparing the economic value of sending a kid to a showcase where he may be seen by anywhere from 10 to 100 schools vs. being seen by one D1 and maybe a couple of Juco's or D2/D3 schools isn't even close. In my personal experience, money spent on a showcase, where schools already targeted as primaries for the student would be far more effective and efficient for exposure and recruiting than a coaches camp.
quote:If you look back at my posts; find somewhere I was very critical of PBR...
My only problem with PBR the magazine is that due to staff size it only covers the north, north part of Illinois....It really isn't a True State of Illinois Baseball Magazine...
Woodly, does these words look familiar to you. Thanks for the paper trail.
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:quote:If you look back at my posts; find somewhere I was very critical of PBR...
My only problem with PBR the magazine is that due to staff size it only covers the north, north part of Illinois....It really isn't a True State of Illinois Baseball Magazine...
Woodly, does these words look familiar to you. Thanks for the paper trail.
JESUS MAN......YOU CONSIDER THAT CRITICAL??? IT IS A FACT ...THE MAGAZINE DUE TO LACK OF STAFF; SEAN DUNCAN EVEN ADMITS IT; COVERS THE NORTH!!! SUBJECT IS DEAD... I HAVE NO PROBLEMS in anything i have brought up.... It just seems that some people have very sensitive skin... I always thought that if things are ever going to improve you listen...and if Duncan wants to improve his PBR magazine in the future the "staff" is needed to cover more area..simple as that...
So lets just drop the subject ..It does not effect me one way or another..I do not have a son nor do i have any finances at stake... so lets just let it die...I was just trying to get some answers for parents who were asking if it was necessary to go to the camps to get into magazine...
We are never going to get an answer to the evaluators so we will just forget it...
I guess im going to jump into this one so be gentle. Sean does a great job with his publication. I know while I was at MSU it was good for us to look at to get a bead on kids. But it wasnt like we were ever prioritizing our recruiting because of it.
I think the problem that people get in is that they think their sons or their players are getting snubbed or overated by PBR. I know in the case of Division I schools, that is not the case at all. Take the one issue a year or two back. It had Seth Blair, Chimilewski, and a couple of other guys that were legit in it. Anyone of the top 10 kids could have been ranked number 1 but he has to do a ranking somehow. How he comes up with it, is up to him. Hell, Kyle Kaminska was like 16 or something. He might end up being the best out of all of them.
Its like asking someone what their top 10 movies of all time are. No one's ever match up. Plus it is a subjective judgement, so it will always be wrong to someone else.
I dont think Sean has to defend himself or his publication. I think he does a great job with it. Would it be better if he could see every kid across the state and had a full staff that could meet and breakdown talent? Sure, but unless you guys want to go on board with PBR and hit the road evaluating, then chill out a bit. It gives the kids that he can see or hear about great exposure.
Maybe we should all take a look at how we could help this thing out. Maybe have a Chicago area PBR and a South Illinois - PBR. Hell Maybe a Midwest High school PBR or Summer/Fall team PBR.
Just spitballing and I can do that with the best of them.
We all need to get on board with each other, High School, Travel, Conditioning, Fall Ball coaches and get Illinois baseball rolling. Illinois has the 4th most kids in the country drafted every year and we more than played with the best kids in the country.
There is no reason why we cant compete and be among the best in the country at any level.
Just my thoughts.
Steeley
I think the problem that people get in is that they think their sons or their players are getting snubbed or overated by PBR. I know in the case of Division I schools, that is not the case at all. Take the one issue a year or two back. It had Seth Blair, Chimilewski, and a couple of other guys that were legit in it. Anyone of the top 10 kids could have been ranked number 1 but he has to do a ranking somehow. How he comes up with it, is up to him. Hell, Kyle Kaminska was like 16 or something. He might end up being the best out of all of them.
Its like asking someone what their top 10 movies of all time are. No one's ever match up. Plus it is a subjective judgement, so it will always be wrong to someone else.
I dont think Sean has to defend himself or his publication. I think he does a great job with it. Would it be better if he could see every kid across the state and had a full staff that could meet and breakdown talent? Sure, but unless you guys want to go on board with PBR and hit the road evaluating, then chill out a bit. It gives the kids that he can see or hear about great exposure.
Maybe we should all take a look at how we could help this thing out. Maybe have a Chicago area PBR and a South Illinois - PBR. Hell Maybe a Midwest High school PBR or Summer/Fall team PBR.
Just spitballing and I can do that with the best of them.
We all need to get on board with each other, High School, Travel, Conditioning, Fall Ball coaches and get Illinois baseball rolling. Illinois has the 4th most kids in the country drafted every year and we more than played with the best kids in the country.
There is no reason why we cant compete and be among the best in the country at any level.
Just my thoughts.
Steeley
quote:Originally posted by Coach Steeley:
I guess im going to jump into this one so be gentle. Sean does a great job with his publication. I know while I was at MSU it was good for us to look at to get a bead on kids. But it wasnt like we were ever prioritizing our recruiting because of it.
I think the problem that people get in is that they think their sons or their players are getting snubbed or overated by PBR. I know in the case of Division I schools, that is not the case at all. Take the one issue a year or two back. It had Seth Blair, Chimilewski, and a couple of other guys that were legit in it. Anyone of the top 10 kids could have been ranked number 1 but he has to do a ranking somehow. How he comes up with it, is up to him. Hell, Kyle Kaminska was like 16 or something. He might end up being the best out of all of them.
Its like asking someone what their top 10 movies of all time are. No one's ever match up. Plus it is a subjective judgement, so it will always be wrong to someone else.
I dont think Sean has to defend himself or his publication. I think he does a great job with it. Would it be better if he could see every kid across the state and had a full staff that could meet and breakdown talent? Sure, but unless you guys want to go on board with PBR and hit the road evaluating, then chill out a bit. It gives the kids that he can see or hear about great exposure.
Maybe we should all take a look at how we could help this thing out. Maybe have a Chicago area PBR and a South Illinois - PBR. Hell Maybe a Midwest High school PBR or Summer/Fall team PBR.
Just spitballing and I can do that with the best of them.
We all need to get on board with each other, High School, Travel, Conditioning, Fall Ball coaches and get Illinois baseball rolling. Illinois has the 4th most kids in the country drafted every year and we more than played with the best kids in the country.
There is no reason why we cant compete and be among the best in the country at any level.
Just my thoughts.
Steeley
Good Job coach; but be careful...you know how brutal this sight gets some people take alot of things wrong
Yeh coach! You put as much as a toe in to see if the waters cold and they'll have it. lol
Great Truth, I need your super Armour!
I've taken so many shots I look like swiss cheese..
Gotwood, lets see where you can take this one....
Great Truth, I need your super Armour!
I've taken so many shots I look like swiss cheese..
Gotwood, lets see where you can take this one....
Fellas...with all due respect to the thoughts and opinions expressed, there's still one question that I have which has yet to be answered...namely, is PBR owned by, operated by, or affiliated in any way to Full Package/Top Tier? In my opinion, the answer to this question has a good deal of relevance to the specific issue of rankings. Sean...are you at liberty to share with us this information?
quote:Originally posted by deucedoc:
Yeh coach! You put as much as a toe in to see if the waters cold and they'll have it. lol
Great Truth, I need your super Armour!
I've taken so many shots I look like swiss cheese..
Gotwood, lets see where you can take this one....
Deucedoc's trials and tribulations are the stuff from which movies are made...
That Sandra Locke...what an actress! Whoa! My oh my!
Oh...and that Duece guy's pretty good too I guess.
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quote:Originally posted by Bravescoach:
Fellas...with all due respect to the thoughts and opinions expressed, there's still one question that I have which has yet to be answered...namely, is PBR owned by, operated by, or affiliated in any way to Full Package/Top Tier? In my opinion, the answer to this question has a good deal of relevance to the specific issue of rankings. Sean...are you at liberty to share with us this information?
First Page of last edition of PBR:
PBR- PREP BASEBALL REPORT
Editor in Chief-Sean Duncan
CEO-Todd Fine
Publisher-Sean Duncan
in another ad in PBR magazine- Todd Fine, Co Founder of Full Package Athletics
and Todd Fine is the manager -coach-of Top Tier
"just giving you information"- not criticizing anyone or anything"
quote:namely, is PBR owned by, operated by, or affiliated in any way to Full Package/Top Tier?
Woodly, so much for the fork in it.
Sean has answered this question before on prior posts as a "NO".
Coach Steely well said. Woodly, why don't you forward all parental inquiries about the PBR to Sean. You shouldn't answer to things your not in control of. But if you feel compelled to, remeber to mention that the NO#1 ranked and featured athlete of the last issue is south of I-80.
Looking forward to the next issue already. Keep up the good work Sean!
Anyone who says there's no connection obviously can't read. The PBR webpage lists Full Package Sports as their sponsor and the Full Package webpage lists the PBR under FPA publications - no connection? C'mon. I'm not saying if it's good or bad, I'm just saying it is and I don't know why people make so much of an effort to pretend the connection isn't there.
Oh, and they (Full Package and PBR) have the same address...
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
Anyone who says there's no connection obviously can't read. The PBR webpage lists Full Package Sports as their sponsor and the Full Package webpage lists the PBR under FPA publications - no connection? C'mon. I'm not saying if it's good or bad, I'm just saying it is and I don't know why people make so much of an effort to pretend the connection isn't there.
be careful my three sons...you will be criticized by certain members of this forum...even though it is a site to voice your own opinions ...and your facts and feelings are also mine...WHO CARES? ALL I asked for was who was evaluating..
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:quote:namely, is PBR owned by, operated by, or affiliated in any way to Full Package/Top Tier?
Woodly, so much for the fork in it.
Sean has answered this question before on prior posts as a "NO".
Coach Steely well said. Woodly, why don't you forward all parental inquiries about the PBR to Sean. You shouldn't answer to things your not in control of. But if you feel compelled to, remeber to mention that the NO#1 ranked and featured athlete of the last issue is south of I-80.
Thanks for telling me what I can say and can't say..
and I have forwarded and sent alot of players to PBR showcases...and it is those people who are asking me who evaluates and ranks the players...PLAYERS AND PARENTS that have spent money with PBR.. I directed those parents to this website and the PBR website also....thats why you have the questions asked requesting a straight answer...Which no one can get
a straight answer..FOR NOW ON since you speak alot for PBR I WILL FORWARD THEM TO YOU!!! if your true identity comes out and your agenda
woodly - I'm not sure, but I think you might have read me wrong -
I agree the information about the connection is important for people to know. The sportswriters of our local papers quote the PBR like it's the gospel. When I got into a chat with one of them at a game one day I asked him if he was aware of the PBR/FPA connection and he said "No". I asked if it would matter to them and he said "absolutely". They would not be able to consider the PBR to be an unbiased source of information. Information - yes. But NOT unbiased.
When I tried to find out how players were ranked - a player we knew personally who had never even seen the field on a so-so varsity team was ranked in the top 100 and I was curious - I was told that my own son must not go to "elite" showcases. I wasn't asking about my son - I was curious how you could rank a boy who had not even competed in his own conference. The answer was that, I guess, he attended the "right" showcase". However, my son did play every game on his high school varsity team for four years - but I guess that's not how you evaluate high school talent anymore?
I don't mind the rankings, I guess I would just like to see the whole high school element taken out of it - they (or he) aren't really ranking players based upon how they perform in their high school conference. Why not just say "these are kids that we've seen or heard about one way or the other that we think are the best". End of story. Get rid of the whole "we represent the best in the state of Illinois in high school baseball" claim and say what you really do - see as many kids as is humanly possible and then subjectively rank them how you see it and hope that people are interested enough to pay for your publication.
By the way, our high school coach has never even heard from Sean Duncan. And we're pretty darn close to the PBR home base. So it's not just the southern part of the state that gets passed over... I guess they feel if you aren't on a great team you don't need to be seen as an individual player.
I agree the information about the connection is important for people to know. The sportswriters of our local papers quote the PBR like it's the gospel. When I got into a chat with one of them at a game one day I asked him if he was aware of the PBR/FPA connection and he said "No". I asked if it would matter to them and he said "absolutely". They would not be able to consider the PBR to be an unbiased source of information. Information - yes. But NOT unbiased.
When I tried to find out how players were ranked - a player we knew personally who had never even seen the field on a so-so varsity team was ranked in the top 100 and I was curious - I was told that my own son must not go to "elite" showcases. I wasn't asking about my son - I was curious how you could rank a boy who had not even competed in his own conference. The answer was that, I guess, he attended the "right" showcase". However, my son did play every game on his high school varsity team for four years - but I guess that's not how you evaluate high school talent anymore?
I don't mind the rankings, I guess I would just like to see the whole high school element taken out of it - they (or he) aren't really ranking players based upon how they perform in their high school conference. Why not just say "these are kids that we've seen or heard about one way or the other that we think are the best". End of story. Get rid of the whole "we represent the best in the state of Illinois in high school baseball" claim and say what you really do - see as many kids as is humanly possible and then subjectively rank them how you see it and hope that people are interested enough to pay for your publication.
By the way, our high school coach has never even heard from Sean Duncan. And we're pretty darn close to the PBR home base. So it's not just the southern part of the state that gets passed over... I guess they feel if you aren't on a great team you don't need to be seen as an individual player.
sounds like we read each other right woodly 
as far as being criticized, that's OK. It's happened before and I survived! I really have no problem with PBR and what they do, other than what I said - be honest about who you are (and really, I think they make the connection pretty clear for anyone who cares to check it out - this is not a FPA/PBR problem as far as I can tell) and what you do and more power to you!
as far as being criticized, that's OK. It's happened before and I survived! I really have no problem with PBR and what they do, other than what I said - be honest about who you are (and really, I think they make the connection pretty clear for anyone who cares to check it out - this is not a FPA/PBR problem as far as I can tell) and what you do and more power to you!
my 3 sons you have a pmquote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
sounds like we read each other right woodly
as far as being criticized, that's OK. It's happened before and I survived! I really have no problem with PBR and what they do, other than what I said - be honest about who you are (and really, I think they make the connection pretty clear for anyone who cares to check it out - this is not a FPA/PBR problem as far as I can tell) and what you do and more power to you!
back at you, woodly.
quote:Thanks for telling me what I can say and can't say..
quote:a straight answer..FOR NOW ON since you speak alot for PBR I WILL FORWARD THEM TO YOU!!! if your true identity comes out and your agenda
Woodly, I think you misinterpreted what I had to say, you should read it again, PBR is not your issue so why involve yourself in it. Secondly, my identity has never been hidden, I am Paul Belo, head baseball coach from Palatine High School, it also says so on my public profile, so I am not sure of your point. As far as my agenda, it is real simple, to identify those people and events that really act on behalf of kids. You may remember a conversation that you and I had when one of my players (=player name deleted=) received a letter from your place of business in Bourbonais identifying =player name deleted= as a Top Prospect Top Prospect, I asked you very simply "how did you get my players name and what makes him a prospect? I also asked if you had ever seen him play? I was curious as to how a southern facility like yours came upon his name. You told me that you had never seen him play personally, that you had been given a list of possible prospects by other references and he was on it. You also stated that the letter was more of a form letter and that the reference to Top Prospect was directly related to the camp, not necessarily to the player attending it. While I appreciated your honesty, it appeared to me that this was more business opportunity for you rather than exposure opportunity for =player name deleted=. While I am confident that you would have provided all that your letter insisted it would have I didn't feel it would have been in his best interest to attend. That was just a decision I had to make on behalf of my player, who at the time was not a Top Prospect. Lastly, I believe that criticism you continue to be sarcastic about when responding to new posters, was generated by you and had to do with who rated the players and how information was relayed to Sean about those rated. I believe and you had admitted so, that you are already familiar with the technique that Sean uses about identifying and rating (Top Prospect) players.
I have no connection with Sean what so ever except that he works his butt off to provide the best publication he can. By the way the Illinois High School Baseball Coaches Association proudly sponsor his efforts also.
Playball,
Coach, very well said. You can also add without any risk of overstating,"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
Coach, very well said. You can also add without any risk of overstating,"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
quote:Originally posted by itsrosy:
Playball,
Coach, very well said. You can also add without any risk of overstating,"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
Glass Houses???? Where have you seen me throw any type of Exposure Events in the past 2 years...???
I quit when i saw the over exposure of the events...but I must admit when I see what is going on I am tempted to throw a combine for $25.00 for the kids at locations to allow the kids a chance to be seen by college coaches...THE WHOLE DEAL IS OVERSATURATED./......IT IS COSTING PARENTS ALOT OF MONEY... The college coaches and pro scouts are saying the same thing.... I am not in a glass house....I only provide TEAMS, all players, an opportunity to play at a college field and i work my butt off to get those scouts and recruiters to the event to help the kids.... The kids pay x amt. of dollars to play on those teams...They don't pay me to get their name out to recruiters..WHICH I DO FOR THE AMT. THE TEAM PAYS TO PLAY IN OUR TOURNEYS...
GLASS HOUSES? GET REAL---
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:quote:Thanks for telling me what I can say and can't say..quote:a straight answer..FOR NOW ON since you speak alot for PBR I WILL FORWARD THEM TO YOU!!! if your true identity comes out and your agenda
Woodly, I think you misinterpreted what I had to say, you should read it again, PBR is not your issue so why involve yourself in it. Secondly, my identity has never been hidden, I am Paul Belo, head baseball coach from Palatine High School, it also says so on my public profile, so I am not sure of your point. As far as my agenda, it is real simple, to identify those people and events that really act on behalf of kids. You may remember a conversation that you and I had when one of my players (=player name deleted=) received a letter from your place of business in Bourbonais identifying =player name deleted= as a Top Prospect Top Prospect, I asked you very simply "how did you get my players name and what makes him a prospect? I also asked if you had ever seen him play? I was curious as to how a southern facility like yours came upon his name. You told me that you had never seen him play personally, that you had been given a list of possible prospects by other references and he was on it. You also stated that the letter was more of a form letter and that the reference to Top Prospect was directly related to the camp, not necessarily to the player attending it. While I appreciated your honesty, it appeared to me that this was more business opportunity for you rather than exposure opportunity for =player name deleted=. While I am confident that you would have provided all that your letter insisted it would have I didn't feel it would have been in his best interest to attend. That was just a decision I had to make on behalf of my player, who at the time was not a Top Prospect. Lastly, I believe that criticism you continue to be sarcastic about when responding to new posters, was generated by you and had to do with who rated the players and how information was relayed to Sean about those rated. I believe and you had admitted so, that you are already familiar with the technique that Sean uses about identifying and rating (Top Prospect) players.
I have no connection with Sean what so ever except that he works his butt off to provide the best publication he can. By the way the Illinois High School Baseball Coaches Association proudly sponsor his efforts also.
Man you opened a can of worms.....I got that name from THE PBR PUBLICATION as a top PROSPECT...A PERSON TO WATCH...and now you are telling me he was not worthy of an event that i was holding????? Wow...what does that say ?????
But I bet he was worthy of this>>>>>how many events up north was he worthy of??? You don't want me to list them??? What is your connection with the Black/Silver Games and the other events up North?
No problem with me but if YOU DECIDED instead of the kid after receiving the letter he was not worthy of the Top Prospect Games....why didn't the kid have the opportunity to say NO TO THE GAMES....
WHERE DID THIS KID GO TO SCHOOL?????? Hopefully to a good baseball school where he could get his education...
Why do some high school baseball coaches hate the travel business that much??? Let the kids and parents decide ... Again ---I stress--I am not in the business....Exposure events, recruiting, magazines, etc. so I have nothing to lose on this..but it seems to me that some of the Northern Illinois High School Coaches are teaming up with a business atmosphere up north... ARE YOU INCLUDED???
BY THE WAY YOUR NAME IS NOT ON THE INFORMATION LOG OF THIS FORUM... no high school coach or travel coach should make the decison for the kid....The kids parents and himself have the right to make that decison.... I do remember the conversation we had over the phone...and I do remember the entire conversation which I will not reveal at this time...
Woodly, why the venom? Secondly, it had nothing to do with you, if you would have read, you would see that I was complimentary to you for being honest and the fact that I was confident that you would have provided the services your organization claimed it would. Question though, what was he, a Top Prospect or A Person To Watch? You see that is exactly why I follow up when my athletes get letters from organization. I have already explained my agenda so I will not elaborate, however, you make an assumption that I never allowed the parents or the player to make a decision about what he is to attend or decline. That's ridiculous. The fact is that after a succesful sophomore season in a tremendous baseball conference this young man was innundated with mail equal to the one your organization had sent, we had to disseminate what was best for him. While he was 6'6", he was topping out at 84 mph with a change up and no number 3 pitch, on top of the fact that he had thrown more innings in the spring and the summer than he had ever thrown. While I understand he had a tremendous upside he was anything but a top prospect. So it wasn't a matter of him being worthy it was an honest evaluation of his skills. An intresting side bar to this is that the next season he and his parents did not follow the reccomendations that were made by me and my pitching coach. He attended every showcase that was offered to him, attempted to max his arm each time out and topped out at the Auburn Top Prospect Camp at 79 mph. Where did it get him? Also he broke down in the second week of the spring season and did not throw again until the final week of the season, 2 innings at a 70% effort. As far as why I envolve myself in the decision making proces is real simple, this is my profession, I work delligently to formulate an expert opinion, because I stay in the know. Why? because it is in the best interest of my kids. It is in your best interest that the player and the players parents make the decision because it many cases it is uninformed. The reality is that you have a business interest, just your lack of knowledge about who he was demonstrates that. And that interest would prosper greater if high school coaches didn't interfere. Lastly, sir I sensed by your last sentence that you feel the need to question my integrity, I say let it rip, I have nothing to hide and you have nothing to reveal, unless it was disingenious, because I believe the conversation has already been stated and it was complimentary, with no intent to open a can of worms.
Wood asked a simple question who ranks the players and it turned into all this because instead of answering the question everyone wants to side step it because the anwser is exactly what he said at the start. The publication primarly deals with the north. It has been admitted by the owner.
To say the #1 player is from the south means nothing? Why? because he has been the best player in the state since he was 12 years old (his age group). He is number #1 because you could not have such an obvious slight.
All this ranking is ridiculous. You should be ranking them on grades and what type a person they are. I agree with Wood, you for the most part get on the ranking because you pay for a showcase and that is fine, no problem. But then answer the question instead of side stepping it.
There are good/great players all over this state. The SI Bullets have a stocked D1 college team and always have. The new team in Peoria is going to be good. The Capitol City Sluggers in SPFLD has probably 3/4 legit D1 and one pitcher from Chillicothe would will probably be drafted. Not to mention some other very very good players on some other teams down south.
To say the #1 player is from the south means nothing? Why? because he has been the best player in the state since he was 12 years old (his age group). He is number #1 because you could not have such an obvious slight.
All this ranking is ridiculous. You should be ranking them on grades and what type a person they are. I agree with Wood, you for the most part get on the ranking because you pay for a showcase and that is fine, no problem. But then answer the question instead of side stepping it.
There are good/great players all over this state. The SI Bullets have a stocked D1 college team and always have. The new team in Peoria is going to be good. The Capitol City Sluggers in SPFLD has probably 3/4 legit D1 and one pitcher from Chillicothe would will probably be drafted. Not to mention some other very very good players on some other teams down south.
Playball, great post way to call out another phony..
It's nice to know there are HS coaches out there looking out for the KIDS best interest.
Woodly, Once again your AGENDA's are shining through loud and clear. You come on here saying you have nothing against PBR yet all you do is question their integrity on player selection and ranking. Yet you and playball stated you sent out an invite based solely off the information in the PBR. If you do not agree with it, you have a funny of showing it. By using the information for your financial gain? I wonder how many other invites went out to other players that you NEVER saw play, yet you invite to YOUR top prospects camp. Tell us who scouted the players for you? was it based solely of a publication you seem to have an agenda against. I think you are the one with the integrity issues you can back track all you want, about doing it for the kids, I think the only kids your worried about are yours and your financial future...
It's nice to know there are HS coaches out there looking out for the KIDS best interest.
Woodly, Once again your AGENDA's are shining through loud and clear. You come on here saying you have nothing against PBR yet all you do is question their integrity on player selection and ranking. Yet you and playball stated you sent out an invite based solely off the information in the PBR. If you do not agree with it, you have a funny of showing it. By using the information for your financial gain? I wonder how many other invites went out to other players that you NEVER saw play, yet you invite to YOUR top prospects camp. Tell us who scouted the players for you? was it based solely of a publication you seem to have an agenda against. I think you are the one with the integrity issues you can back track all you want, about doing it for the kids, I think the only kids your worried about are yours and your financial future...
quote:Originally posted by HighHeat28:
Playball, great post way to call out another phony..
It's nice to know there are HS coaches out there looking out for the KIDS best interest.
Woodly, Once again your AGENDA's are shining through loud and clear. You come on here saying you have nothing against PBR yet all you do is question their integrity on player selection and ranking. Yet you and playball stated you sent out an invite based solely off the information in the PBR. If you do not agree with it, you have a funny of showing it. By using the information for your financial gain? I wonder how many other invites went out to other players that you NEVER saw play, yet you invite to YOUR top prospects camp. Tell us who scouted the players for you? was it based solely of a publication you seem to have an agenda against. I think you are the one with the integrity issues you can back track all you want, about doing it for the kids, I think the only kids your worried about are yours and your financial future...
I have not put on any exposure events for two years..I stopped those games mainly because there were too many of them out there..The only reason I had those games was to help Kankakee Comm. College and John Logan College see some of the better players up North...It worked out great for those schools but it was not a BIG FINANCIAL POP TO ME PERSONALLY... EVERYONE WAS PAID good money to work these events and the Jr College baseball programs received a donation to their programs through those events...Just like all of my tourneys I hold.. Those prospect camps were to benefit ANY player who wanted to play college baseball...not just the TOP PLAYERS who were ranked in a periodical...Matter of fact we did not even invite the real good ones ranked highly by the publication.
I received names and schools of players from several college coaches and high school coaches in the Northern Area as well as some pro scouts... We hired very qualified instructors to not only evaluate but instruct at those games... High School coaches , College Coaches, Former Pro Players, and former Pro Baseball Coaches worked my events...Rich Hacker, former 3b coach for Toronto and the St Louis Cardinals was hired to instruct and speak to the kids....HIS PRIMARY job was to instruct and he loved it!!!
All of the programs available to the kids are good..Travel baseball is something that was not available to us when we were kids...It is a great thing for these kids as well as the high school programs.. Most of the coaches in the travel business are former players who "love the game" and they work for NOTHING... The Legion Programs are still around in some areas and thats a good opportunity for kids also...
The Plainfield Showcase weekend is great for the kids too and it has the COOPERATION from the high school coaches... The Black and Silver, The Area Code Games, Team Illinois, Stevenson Games, PBR Magazine all have the support of the HIGH SCHOOL COACHES... so WHY the bickering about a few travel teams? It should be all about the kids which I am sure everyone has the best intentions... but can
individuals work together to better BASEBALL throughout the state of Illinois --
Alot of emails have come to me directly as a result of this forum...some supportive of my decision to ask questions for some parents SOUTH OF I-80...
the reason they don't ask themselves is very simple
LOOK AT THE BASHING I HAVE TAKEN for stating I felt PBR should not rank the kids(my personal opinion) and that they should include all of the kids statewide to BETTER THE MAGAZINE..and give us a true ILLINOIS BASEBALL MAGAZINE...not just the top players in the Chicago Metro Region..
I have been clear to everyone that I have NO KIDS INVOLVED...I DON'T TEACH LESSONS, I DON'T HAVE A TEAM, I DON'T THROW ANY EXPOSURE CAMPS.....there is not one individual out there that i have any personal connection to.. so my personal monetary gain has nothing to do with my "constructive" criticism of PBR magazine. I only hoped that what some have said would be taken into account by the PBR staff as they strive to 'INCREASE' their part in Illinois Baseball...
As Coach Steele stated that all events whether it be High School Baseball, Summer HS baseball, travel teams, travel tourneys, exposure camps,etc...
are all GOOD FOR THE KIDS!!!! Seems like we all should just work together to better the programs for the kids instead of fighting one another
I give in....battle over... Maybe , just maybe, this has been worth alot to some people..The exchange in coversations over the internet....Wow..
Life too short to bicker over petty stuff...You won't see me offering my opinion or suggestions for a long time!
Wow, this string has really developed into something. I am not dodging any of this; I just moved last week and haven't had access to a computer over the weekend until now. I will attempt to address some of the inquiries and whatnots.
Again, let me begin by saying that yes, I miss players, as hard as I try to identify them all. And no, you don't have to attend a PBR event to get ranked in the magazine.
Woodly, I thought I answered the question as to who ranks the players: that would be me. Contrary to what you or your sources may believe, I do a lot of traveling to see players, and yes, my trusty car even crossed the critical I-80 border on many occasions. I obviously see a lot more baseball in the Chicagoland area, but I do make the trek past I-80 line with a canteen of water in one hand, trusty Yahoo Map directions in the other, and a pithe helmet on my head. During the season, if there's a good Wednesday afternoon game at Eldorado HS or at Mount Carmel, I'm going to Mount Carmel. I try and see as many kids as I can, as does my limited staff that I have. Could I do a better job south of I-80? Heck yes.
As far as rankings are concerned, Steeley said it best - one of several kids can be ranked No. 1, or No. 20, or No. 50. Usually they are in the correct neighborhood.
As far as the connection with Top Tier, I do this probably once a year, so I'll do it again. Here's the latest Class of 2008 rankings (top 35), which was recently released in the last magazine. You make the call if there's a bias in the rankings (I am only including the travel team, not HS, for sake of this point).
1. Jake Odorizzi - St. Louis Pirates (south of I-80)
2. Austin Wright - McHenry Hurricanes/Bergen Beach
3. Nick Martini - McHenry Hurricanes
4. Tony Zych - Sparks
5. Braden Kapteyn - (I think local team)
6. Danny Jimenez - No travel team, as far as I know
7. Jordan Sivertsen - Midland Redskins (Ohio)
8. John Lorenz - Top Tier
9 Kyle Hunter - Top Tier (south of I-80, I think)
10. Dominick D'Agata - Top Tier
11. Sean Flanagan - Sparks
12. Jake Thornton - Top Tier
13. Kyle Stroup - Midwest Stars
14. T.J. Swank - McHenry Hurricanes
15. Adam Davis - Norwood Blues
16. John Ruettiger - Sparks
17. Steve Sabatino - Downers Grove Longshots
18. Nick Brown - Sparks
19. Bryan Roberts - Sparks
20. Brett Huber - St. Louis Pirates (south of I-80)
21. Tony Bucciferro - Top Tier
22. Luis Diaz - Top Tier
23. Joey DeBernardis - Midwest Stars
24. Mike McQuillan - Sparks
25. Lucas Hileman - SI Bullets (south of I-80)
26. Josh Downing - Rockford Hitmen
27. Corey Kimes - Sparks
28. Otto Roberts - St. Louis Pirates (south of I-80)
29. Jarred Hippen - Don't know what team (Rock Falls)
30. Mike Derby - Top Tier
31. Jimmy Risi - Top Tier
32. Zack Badgley - Not sure
33. Phil Kaiser - Downers Longshots
34. Josh Parr - Not sure (south of I-80)
35. Matt Salemi - McHenry Hurricanes
I think one thing everyone of this website can agree upon is there are a lot of good players in the state. Some of those players are well-known, some aren't. Like I said, I try to know all the better players in the state. Indeed, I've missed some, but it's not for lack of trying. For some players, I rely on HS coaches to send in their questionnaires, and if they highly recommend a player, I'll likely follow up. For example, three years ago the Joliet Catholic HS coach wrote on his questionnaire that he though a kid named Joe Benson had pro tools - and is definitely someone to check out, even though Benson was a junior and hadn't played varsity as a sophomore. I went to see Benson play and I couldn't have been happier that the HS coach recommended Benson - he turned out to be the No. 1 ranked player in the class and drafted in the second round.
Rankings are completely subjective, I understand. I have final say on them. Are the rankings always right? No. But I think I've found a reliable group of people in different regions who help me out, in addition to the HS coaches. ... I have the utmost respect for what Perfect Game does. It is a quality organization that serves to help players achieve their goals. PG is on a much bigger scale than the PBR, but to find all the kids and rank them is a daunting task, sometimes impossible. In PG's Illinois rankings, they have a kid who hasn't played competitive baseball in three years - that's not a knock on PG, it just shows that a kid can go to a showcase and really impress, but then don't know what happens after that.
I can tell you that with the utmost honesty that I frankly don't care what travel program a kid plays for, what HS a kid attends. If a kid is good, a kid is good, and I'm not going to risk the integrity (or, at the very least, my perceived integrity) on a player who plays or doesn't play for a team. In the bigger picture, it's not worth it. Or, in the same vein, if a player attends a PBR showcase.
I'm not trying to color myself as a saint of high school baseball here, but I honestly try to help as many players as I can. I like what I do, and if I can have a good time doing it and still afford to put gas in my car (especially for those gas-guzzling trips past I-80!), then a part of my life is contented.
Thanks.
Again, let me begin by saying that yes, I miss players, as hard as I try to identify them all. And no, you don't have to attend a PBR event to get ranked in the magazine.
Woodly, I thought I answered the question as to who ranks the players: that would be me. Contrary to what you or your sources may believe, I do a lot of traveling to see players, and yes, my trusty car even crossed the critical I-80 border on many occasions. I obviously see a lot more baseball in the Chicagoland area, but I do make the trek past I-80 line with a canteen of water in one hand, trusty Yahoo Map directions in the other, and a pithe helmet on my head. During the season, if there's a good Wednesday afternoon game at Eldorado HS or at Mount Carmel, I'm going to Mount Carmel. I try and see as many kids as I can, as does my limited staff that I have. Could I do a better job south of I-80? Heck yes.
As far as rankings are concerned, Steeley said it best - one of several kids can be ranked No. 1, or No. 20, or No. 50. Usually they are in the correct neighborhood.
As far as the connection with Top Tier, I do this probably once a year, so I'll do it again. Here's the latest Class of 2008 rankings (top 35), which was recently released in the last magazine. You make the call if there's a bias in the rankings (I am only including the travel team, not HS, for sake of this point).
1. Jake Odorizzi - St. Louis Pirates (south of I-80)
2. Austin Wright - McHenry Hurricanes/Bergen Beach
3. Nick Martini - McHenry Hurricanes
4. Tony Zych - Sparks
5. Braden Kapteyn - (I think local team)
6. Danny Jimenez - No travel team, as far as I know
7. Jordan Sivertsen - Midland Redskins (Ohio)
8. John Lorenz - Top Tier
9 Kyle Hunter - Top Tier (south of I-80, I think)
10. Dominick D'Agata - Top Tier
11. Sean Flanagan - Sparks
12. Jake Thornton - Top Tier
13. Kyle Stroup - Midwest Stars
14. T.J. Swank - McHenry Hurricanes
15. Adam Davis - Norwood Blues
16. John Ruettiger - Sparks
17. Steve Sabatino - Downers Grove Longshots
18. Nick Brown - Sparks
19. Bryan Roberts - Sparks
20. Brett Huber - St. Louis Pirates (south of I-80)
21. Tony Bucciferro - Top Tier
22. Luis Diaz - Top Tier
23. Joey DeBernardis - Midwest Stars
24. Mike McQuillan - Sparks
25. Lucas Hileman - SI Bullets (south of I-80)
26. Josh Downing - Rockford Hitmen
27. Corey Kimes - Sparks
28. Otto Roberts - St. Louis Pirates (south of I-80)
29. Jarred Hippen - Don't know what team (Rock Falls)
30. Mike Derby - Top Tier
31. Jimmy Risi - Top Tier
32. Zack Badgley - Not sure
33. Phil Kaiser - Downers Longshots
34. Josh Parr - Not sure (south of I-80)
35. Matt Salemi - McHenry Hurricanes
I think one thing everyone of this website can agree upon is there are a lot of good players in the state. Some of those players are well-known, some aren't. Like I said, I try to know all the better players in the state. Indeed, I've missed some, but it's not for lack of trying. For some players, I rely on HS coaches to send in their questionnaires, and if they highly recommend a player, I'll likely follow up. For example, three years ago the Joliet Catholic HS coach wrote on his questionnaire that he though a kid named Joe Benson had pro tools - and is definitely someone to check out, even though Benson was a junior and hadn't played varsity as a sophomore. I went to see Benson play and I couldn't have been happier that the HS coach recommended Benson - he turned out to be the No. 1 ranked player in the class and drafted in the second round.
Rankings are completely subjective, I understand. I have final say on them. Are the rankings always right? No. But I think I've found a reliable group of people in different regions who help me out, in addition to the HS coaches. ... I have the utmost respect for what Perfect Game does. It is a quality organization that serves to help players achieve their goals. PG is on a much bigger scale than the PBR, but to find all the kids and rank them is a daunting task, sometimes impossible. In PG's Illinois rankings, they have a kid who hasn't played competitive baseball in three years - that's not a knock on PG, it just shows that a kid can go to a showcase and really impress, but then don't know what happens after that.
I can tell you that with the utmost honesty that I frankly don't care what travel program a kid plays for, what HS a kid attends. If a kid is good, a kid is good, and I'm not going to risk the integrity (or, at the very least, my perceived integrity) on a player who plays or doesn't play for a team. In the bigger picture, it's not worth it. Or, in the same vein, if a player attends a PBR showcase.
I'm not trying to color myself as a saint of high school baseball here, but I honestly try to help as many players as I can. I like what I do, and if I can have a good time doing it and still afford to put gas in my car (especially for those gas-guzzling trips past I-80!), then a part of my life is contented.
Thanks.
Is this not the same type of blog that begins every time a PBR issue is released???????
This banter gets real old to read!!!!! This type of blog has been recycled since the 2005 season on this board.
PBR is good for high school baseball. Are certain kids sold short or ranked incorrectly? Of course it is all possible, mistakes can be made. Does this make the magazine bad? Of course not! There are quite a few players in Illinois, it isn't easy.
If you are an opponent of the magazine, stop buying it then. Boy I wonder if Tom Lemming deals with this nonsense?????
This thread just is old recycled sour grapes nonsense ongoing since 2005.
This banter gets real old to read!!!!! This type of blog has been recycled since the 2005 season on this board.
PBR is good for high school baseball. Are certain kids sold short or ranked incorrectly? Of course it is all possible, mistakes can be made. Does this make the magazine bad? Of course not! There are quite a few players in Illinois, it isn't easy.
If you are an opponent of the magazine, stop buying it then. Boy I wonder if Tom Lemming deals with this nonsense?????
This thread just is old recycled sour grapes nonsense ongoing since 2005.
quote:Originally posted by woodly:
The Plainfield Showcase weekend is great for the kids too and it has the COOPERATION from the high school coaches... The Black and Silver, The Area Code Games, Team Illinois, Stevenson Games, PBR Magazine all have the support of the HIGH SCHOOL COACHES...
Wow now I know why it seems difficult to field a "club/travel team" whatever the right term is for it on the summer weekends... Combine all these events and shutting down for two weeks for highschool summer playoffs... Are club/travel and highschool summer really coexisting what is the common ground as it seems like the line is being drawn in the sand and that is not good for any kid.
Well, enough. Sean has made several attempts to get info on kids in the South. I know because he has, at times, emailed me or made other contacts to try and find out about kids down here. He is one man. I NEVER found an agenda with him and the rankings. He asked POIGNANT QUESTIONS about kids and then checked the responses he's heard against other sources. He is doing a great service for this state and for baseball in this state. I think when we are attempting to "rank" players that there are so many variables at stake. I think that we should leave it at an honest attempt to do a service to the young men playing baseball in this state and tip our caps to Sean.
Thanks Sean.
Darrell
Thanks Sean.
Darrell
Sean Flanagan (Longshots Baseball)
Josh Parr (Central Illinois Outlaws)
Josh Parr (Central Illinois Outlaws)
Hey MMR,
Shoot me an email or PM so I can get that arm program to sean and reid.
Dont really know how this works so I did it on here.
Have fun boys.
Shoot me an email or PM so I can get that arm program to sean and reid.
Dont really know how this works so I did it on here.
Have fun boys.
Zach Badgley-Team Pro Player
Adam Davis-Team Pro Player
Adam Davis-Team Pro Player
are you saying Adam Davis has left the Norwood Blues?
The high school coaches are getting tired of seeing kids get burned out playing way too many games with the travel teams. That's why Bergen Beach is a good fit, Steve only plays one Showcase event and encourages the kids to play a reduced schedule with their regular season club teams. Some of these guys around here are hitting it way too hard. Take the Sparks and that crew, wow, talk about a heavy schedule these guys played all summer and now they played a full fall schedule with several out of state fall tournaments. Did they ever hear of shutting the kids down? What's it all for..exposure? If your kid is talented, the recruiters probably know about him already by sophomore year and they will come to you, so take it easy on the kid and don't be fooled by these coaches that promise you the world if you play 200 games with them and drop a grand in the summer and another kings ransom in the fall. Get smart and protect your kids arm. The truth is, only a few tournaments really have scouts anyway, CABA HS WS, Sun Belt Classic, The Area Code games, the WWBA in Jup Florida, the Connie Mack WS and any PG BCS event.
First off, where did you get the info that kids get burned out playing too much? 200 games? My boys absolutely loved playing with dedicated baseball players in the summer/fall. Never got burned out. Playing Mon thru Thurs and getting 6-8 at bats isn't going to make you better.
Gee, let's go tell the Dominicans to stop playing so much and rest. My two kid's arms were stronger at the end of the fall season than they were during the spring.
Gee, let's go tell the Dominicans to stop playing so much and rest. My two kid's arms were stronger at the end of the fall season than they were during the spring.