Pro or College

TRHit-

Touche'

Point well made!!!

Bob - Take it from a person who had a kid go D-1 -- Go pro if you have the opportunity and that is your son's desire. The compressed schedule is a nightmare. Good luck and keep us up-to-date.

diamond darling

It is different strokes for different folks--my guy went D-I and it was the best thing for him


The compressed schedule is only a nightmare because you have not yet adapted

This has been an interesting and informative thread about a very real concern.

Just for a change, let's keep it on topic, without redundancies.

quote:

Originally posted by diamond darling:
Bob - Take it from a person who had a kid go D-1 -- Go pro if you have the opportunity and that is your son's desire. The compressed schedule is a nightmare. Good luck and keep us up-to-date.

DD,
The compressed schedule should not be the a reason to turn pro. The desire to play pro ball above anything else, should be the first reason.

K2,
Appreciated your story. I figured out who your son is.
The advice given to you from the scout was correct, something I have always said. You fell into the trap others do, thinking "my player is WORTH more than they offered". In my son's case, although he may have signed for third round money, he really wanted to go to college because he really wanted to go to college. He wasn't ready to play pro ball. For him it was a good choice and if not, he would have not looked back and been sorry, that's the whole point, what's done is done you can only go forward.

There are many players drafted out of HS in 2004 still in single A, some already to the show. Some released. There are many HS players drafted in 2005 and 2006 already in AA or AAA. That's the strange thing about this pro ball stuff, age doesn't always move you up, ability does.

I wish your son the best of luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
This has been an interesting and informative thread about a very real concern.

Just for a change, let's keep it on topic, without redundancies.

I would just like to add this: with the new transfer rules in effect, I would make sure that if your son chooses the D-1 route, that he has done his homework and really likes the school and the coach. This will be his ONLY opportunity to play D-1 (without sitting a year if he ever thinks of transferring). I also would like to add that I haven't seen many players who are given the opportunity to play a position and pitch at the D-1 level. I'm sure there are some, but it doesn't seem to be the norm.
He has to listen to his heart. Where does he really feel like he needs to be?
Good luck to you and your son---this is an exciting dilemma to have.

Irrespective of the money, is there a round demarcation that says "go pro" or "go to college"? I know this is a matter of opinion, and there are a lot of factors, but.. Top 10? Top 15? Top 20? At what round does a pro team view you as a project or filler player rather than a top player?

Bum,

For the most part everyone is considered a prospct in some way other than those signed as organizational guys. Obviously some better than others, but they are always looking for a surprise in the bunch... And sometimes they find that surprise player who went low in the draft.

Anyway, high school players drafted and made a reasonable offer will have the opportunity to climb the ladder. Sometimes the guys drafted early are given a lot more room for failure, though.

Seldom is a player drafted out of high school to be a filler or organizational guy. Once in awhile, for various reasons, a player IS drafted in later rounds even though the club has no intention of signing him. Once the White Sox drafted a girl!

quote:

Once the White Sox drafted a girl!

Now THATS sweet music to my daughter's ears!

.

Great thread...one of the best ever, IMO...Hats off to all of you...

44
.

What is a reasonable offer for a kid to forgo a college scholarship and sign? I understand that it is very subjective from the player/parent side, but it is a pure business decision from the MLB Clubs side. They know, without emotion, what that reasonable offer is. That offer that says to them that "we want this young man now, but don't need to get him with our top picks". If a HS senior is offered $80k plus the college plan, do organizations believe this to be a reasonable offer? When a player has at least that much in scholarship waiting for him? Does a reasonable offer need to hit some sort of threshold in order for it to be credible from the organizations standpoint?

The question that some of us face is, yes my son wants to play baseball more than breathe air... (fortunately breathing is a prerequisite, so no worry there), but at what point (what level of bonus) do you develop some level of confidence that your guy is going to be given the adequate opportunity to prove his value and not get released after a year. At what point do the clubs have enough invested in a kid to give him the time it will take to adjust to MiLB after graduating from HS.

And when asked, "How much will it take to sign you" and keep you out of college, how do you answer that question, when you are not one of the top 100 players everyone in the business is buzzing about?

But yes, do remember to "enjoy the ride"!

quote:

If a HS senior is offered $80k plus the college plan, do organizations believe this to be a reasonable offer? When a player has at least that much in scholarship waiting for him? Does a reasonable offer need to hit some sort of threshold in order for it to be credible from the organizations standpoint?

If the kids is very signable, the offer is "credible" no matter the amount. Obviously, the more you get, the longer you get to develop and the higher your level of interest as a prospect is.

Probably more important than the bonus amount, is the players desire to play pro baseball, his belief in his ability to adjust and improve and his overall maturity level and ability to maintain professional focus.

If the kid is simply not academically talented or motivated, maybe pro ball is the right move for $20K. If he is a good student and better player with a high ceiling, maybe $500K isn't enough.

I sometimes hear from a player or parent that it would have to be "life changing money" to walk away from going to college.

Question to all... while the number may be very different for each of us, how would/did you determine what "life changing money" would have to be for your situation?

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

quote:

If a HS senior is offered $80k plus the college plan, do organizations believe this to be a reasonable offer? When a player has at least that much in scholarship waiting for him? Does a reasonable offer need to hit some sort of threshold in order for it to be credible from the organizations standpoint?

If the kids is very signable, the offer is "credible" no matter the amount. Obviously, the more you get, the longer you get to develop and the higher your level of interest as a prospect is.

Probably more important than the bonus amount, is the players desire to play pro baseball, his belief in his ability to adjust and improve and his overall maturity level and ability to maintain professional focus.

If the kid is simply not academically talented or motivated, maybe pro ball is the right move for $20K. If he is a good student and better player with a high ceiling, maybe $500K isn't enough.

Excellent post.

Jerseydad-that is a very good question. For us it wasn't about life changing money, it was about enough money that he could go out and live on his own. That he could spend his off-seasons working out and focusing on baseball. Enough money that we didn't have to support him anymore and that if he handled it correctly, there would be something left to start his life should the baseball thing not work out. For example would he have enough money to get through college on the scholarship program.

At the time it was a 5 year contract, so the money had to last that long. For me, life changing money would be enough that you would never have to work again. Very few of those contracts every year. But the realities of professional baseball must be considered, and it is very little pay, for only 7 months a year starting out. I hope that helped.

We hear that “Life Changing Money” description a lot.

I’ve never fully understood it. Life changing money can be nearly any amount depending on where you come from. Then there are some that nearly any amount would not change their life very much.

What is life changing is entering professional baseball or entering college. No matter how much money is involved.

I really think this money thing tends to get crazy at times.

Education is extremely important, but how many after getting their degree ask for or expect “life changing money” when interviewing for that first job. And even then… What would be “Life Changing Money”?

For most, IMO, college is the right way to go. For some pro is the way to go. Problem is… no one but the player and his family can make that decision.

Some do go to college for the purpose of increasing their value in baseball. That might be called a business decision. People do have to look at the real value of that scholarship. It is a “ONE” year scholarship and it can change! It is never close to a life changing amount.

Purpose of going to college – Get an education and hopefully a degree.
Purpose of signing pro – Play baseball and hopefully make it to the top.
Some end up doing both, most don’t.

When our family went through this process one thing that kept coming up in our discussions was the thought: "you can only go to college when you're 18, when you are 18." DUH, seems pretty obvious but the "college experience" at 26 or 32 is a lot different.

I know it sounds crazy but is it something to consider especially when pro scouts push the college plan. They don't really tell you how many kids make use of the plan when their pro baseball careers are over. Maybe someone has some official stats from MLB on the use of the college plan. The college plan is a great bonus but only if you use it.

04Parent-what experiences are you talking about that can only be captured at 18 that can not be captured later in life?

Deldad

I mean the entire college experience - not just one or two things. In my opinion college is a very different experience for the "non-traditional" older student. It can be a very good experience and probably is due to the maturity of the older student but I think it is very different.

I agree 04Parent that college is one experience, and one that is totally different at 18 than later in life. But I think mine has gained more than he has lost by playing professionally. Again, we look at this from two very different perspectives.

Both choices require sacrifices and present unique challenges. So far our experience with professional baseball has been positive. I am sure that there are horror stories out there of kids who wish they would have chosen the other path. Professional careers cut short by injury, or college opportunities not fully utilized.

Mine has missed the "college experience" but he has "experiences" that he would have missed had he gone to college. A trade-off that only time will be able to measure. The one thing I do know is that he has no regrets. He has never looked back. He has never wondered about the road not taken. (The reason I know this is because I asked him). I think that is the key to the decision, College or Pro. It must be one that you are totally committed to. Whichever path must be given your whole heart, or both are wrong. If you choose to go to college, don't treat it as professional baseball prep, study, learn, experience the pluralism that is the college campus. If you chose pro ball, work hard, eat, sleep and drink baseball.

Money does become a factor. It can be blinding. I would be naive to think that money doesn't factor into the decsion process. Don't make it the deciding factor. Again, there are numerous stories of kids who took big money to play professionally and all they have left is the money. There are numerous stories of kids who turned down big money and never were offered the same money after college. I bet we could find a story, good and bad, for every scenario.

I wish the answer was easy. I wish I could look down the road and say with absolute certainty that the decisions we have made were the right ones. I feel I would have the same response if the decision would have went the other way. Good luck to all those parents and players over the next couple months.

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
Jerseydad-that is a very good question. For us it wasn't about life changing money, it was about enough money that he could go out and live on his own. That he could spend his off-seasons working out and focusing on baseball. Enough money that we didn't have to support him anymore and that if he handled it correctly, there would be something left to start his life should the baseball thing not work out. For example would he have enough money to get through college on the scholarship program.

At the time it was a 5 year contract, so the money had to last that long. For me, life changing money would be enough that you would never have to work again. Very few of those contracts every year. But the realities of professional baseball must be considered, and it is very little pay, for only 7 months a year starting out. I hope that helped.

IN HS, for the rounds they were considering son, we and he didn't feel that it would be enough to sustain him for 5 (now 6) years. It didn't have to be life changing money because only a very few get that, but also enough to sustain him on his own through the long haul and to attend college later on and not have to work his way through college. The money that you do recieve twice a month during season, can barely be enough to make ends meet for many players. Here in FLorida, rent is very high and players are forced to live 4-5 in an apartment. Some take the bed and others the air mattresses. Then you have to eat. Bonus money is needed to subsidize season income, and many do have to work off season to save for expenses. With this is mind, son decided to head to college, not knowing if the next draft would turn out better or not. For him this time around, positioning was more important than money received and for him teh three yearsof college made a difference. He knows if it doesn't work out, he only has a year left of school.

As far as I see everyone may be treated pretty fairly early on, it is true the more investment the more patience they have with you. By a certain age, you need to be close to on track in the milb system, college or out of HS. You also may realize whether you may or may not make it or just become an organizational player, which for many is more than enough to fulfill their dreams.

There are facts that one has to confront. The choice is much easier out of college, it is very difficult one out of HS. For many here confronting the choice, the best part is that your sons worked hard to have that choice.

Deldad makes awesome points in his last post.

Also, it's pretty difficult to figure out what you might be missing when you haven't been in a situation. A good example would be my son and Deldad's son both close in age. Both took different paths, both hoping to someday be on a teams starting rotation. Both most likely wouldn't trade one path for another.

As I have always said, making the decision I know is a difficult one, but it needs to be made with conviction and desire and for personal reasons. Looking back at "what ifs" is not an option.

I too wish many of you in the coming weeks best of luck.

There are kids out there that would play for a box of kleenex and a can of tuna a day,...
no matter how irrational the adults say that would be.

My heart goes out to those who dream the dream. I am rooting for them.

What is the college experience??
I went to a very small all womens college...my college experience was not the same as my daughter who went to a larger coed college but lived at home or a student who went to a very large university...

Thats why there is no right or wrong choice. Everyones experiences in life are different.
Provide your sons with information and let them decide. You may not totally agree with the choice but would you want your sons to look back and say "I (went pro/didn't go pro) because Thats what you wanted"

O4Parent:

I think you make an excellent point that folks really do need to put into the "mix" when making this all-important decision. There really IS something about the college experience between 18-22 that can never be captured as a "non-traditional" student. Maybe that's important to the player and maybe it's not, but the player really needs to look long and hard at that issue.

And I will also say that using the MLB college
scholarship plan isn't necessarily easy. Make sure you structure the contract carefully. The parent club will adhere to the letter of the contract and we found that it was a constant hassle to get the full amount of money out of the parent club each semester (probably depends on the team)-- we did it, but not without a LOT of effort.

And at one time I knew the stats about how many HS players actually use the "scholarship" and graduate from college. I have forgotten it, but I remember it is embarassingly small. It's easy for the clubs to offer it because hardly anyone will actually use it.

The main reason the "college money" gets into the deal is a pure business situation---the vast majority of the players will never utilize it---it is money never spent by teams in most cases

I heard that the MLB plan is easy if you can front the money and wait for reimbursement and does take lots of work to get it (even though they put it away for you). And each team is different.

The college scholarship money given to you one year and used years later loses value due to rising costs in education, be aware of that.

College draftees should get monies based on the college attended so they can graduate at that school. HS players most likely will not get the value of what was offered them to play at a particular school.

Also depends on where you live, one team in HS offered son amount that was the cheapest tuition here at a state school. The way we figured with inflation, he was not getting an entire "free" education.

This all is a personal choice in the end.

Do make sure that your read it carefully and ask questions.

No because your price is different than mine....Just do what you want to do.....

Well my response to the deleted post now makes no sense

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
No because your price is different than mine....Just do what you want to do.....

njjb,

Even out of context your post seems like pretty good advice to me.

BobR-
Unless I missed it somewhere along the way (I'm curious)........

Did your son end up getting drafted?

Was wondering if your son had to make the decision or not and if so, what was it?????

I am glad to step in here, if I may ( pardon,..I hope I am not being rude ) but I do know that YES indeedy,....BobR's son was drafted!!!!

Whoooooooooo hooooooooooo!!!
Still waiting to hear what his son decided,....but extremely happy for BobR's son & entire family!!!

Dreams do come true!

Very cool!!!

I guess the challenge will be how much BobR wants to continue being anonymous.

I would (and I think others reading) would love to hear the thought process that goes in to this decision.

Realizing the situation/circumstances will be different for every player.....would like to get an inside view of the process.

My son is going to play for a DI this year, but was not drafted out of HS, so this was not an issue for us.

CONGRATS to BOBR's son!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by deldad:
Jerseydad-that is a very good question. For us it wasn't about life changing money, it was about enough money that he could go out and live on his own. That he could spend his off-seasons working out and focusing on baseball. Enough money that we didn't have to support him anymore and that if he handled it correctly, there would be something left to start his life should the baseball thing not work out. For example would he have enough money to get through college on the scholarship program.

At the time it was a 5 year contract, so the money had to last that long. For me, life changing money would be enough that you would never have to work again. Very few of those contracts every year. But the realities of professional baseball must be considered, and it is very little pay, for only 7 months a year starting out. I hope that helped.

Thanks Deldad, your response helped quite a bit.

My son was drafted by the Twins in the 31st round. He was hoping to go higher.He is seen as a projectable RHP. They have been watching him play this summer since the draft. He has enrolled at Kansas for the fall semester. If the Twins see something they like then there is a possibility that he will offered a higher signing bonus.The longer the process goes on, the more we are seeing that pro baseball is all business. At this point it is really all coming down to the amount of the signing bonus. I am still worrying about the whole process but my son seems happy and okay with leaving it until the drop dead date of August 15, which also happens to bbe move in day at Kansas. Either way, it was a compliment for him to be drafted.

As a side note, I would like to add that we noticed a great number of the higher draft picks were either never drafted out of high school or were previously picked in much lower rounds and attended college.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
The main reason the "college money" gets into the deal is a pure business situation---the vast majority of the players will never utilize it---it is money never spent by teams in most cases

and a fault of the players!

BobR,

I looked up your son who was drafted by my favorite MLB team! It does look like he was projected to be drafted higher, so maybe the signing bonus will be raised before August 15. It sure would be fun to watch your son in the Twins organization. The Twins always seem to have such exciting young players contributing to the big league club.

Best wishes,

Julie

The SS for Georgia was drafted 8th over all (I think) and never drafted out of high school. It happens all the time.

Bighit.....there were two SS taken in 1st rd from Ga. One from HS and one from college. The HS kid went 1/1. Both are named Beckham. The HS one is black and the college one is white.

Also true. The college Beckham was not drafted out of HS. Just contributing to your comments.