Just looking at the first three rounds of the 2008 MLB Draft (1st, 1st supplemental and 2nd round) there were 38 players drafted who were not drafted out of high school. That is a much higher number than i had anticipated.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
What is a reasonable offer for a kid to forgo a college scholarship and sign? I understand that it is very subjective from the player/parent side, but it is a pure business decision from the MLB Clubs side. They know, without emotion, what that reasonable offer is. That offer that says to them that "we want this young man now, but don't need to get him with our top picks". If a HS senior is offered $80k plus the college plan, do organizations believe this to be a reasonable offer? When a player has at least that much in scholarship waiting for him? Does a reasonable offer need to hit some sort of threshold in order for it to be credible from the organizations standpoint?
The question that some of us face is, yes my son wants to play baseball more than breathe air... (fortunately breathing is a prerequisite, so no worry there), but at what point (what level of bonus) do you develop some level of confidence that your guy is going to be given the adequate opportunity to prove his value and not get released after a year. At what point do the clubs have enough invested in a kid to give him the time it will take to adjust to MiLB after graduating from HS.
And when asked, "How much will it take to sign you" and keep you out of college, how do you answer that question, when you are not one of the top 100 players everyone in the business is buzzing about?
But yes, do remember to "enjoy the ride"!
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1557
Yorman Rodriguez, perhaps the most athletic player available for this year’s July 2 international signing period, has signed with the Reds.
International scouts contacted by BA indicated they believed the bonus was for $2.7 million, although the official number has not been confirmed. That bonus would be the largest signing bonus ever given to a player from Venezuela.
Rodriguez, who just turned 16 this month, is a four-tool player who draws praise from scouts for his athleticism, speed, power and arm strength. Scouts say his hit tool lags behind his other abilities–a significant concern for several scouts–but his athleticism and ceiling are both high. Between the signing of Rodriguez and of 16-year-old Dominican outfielder Juan Duran earlier this year for $2 million, the Reds have added two of this year’s top talents from Latin America.
"Yorman is one of the premier position players in Latin America," Reds scouting director Chris Buckley said in a press release. "In Rodriguez and Juan Duran, we’ve signed two of the top players available in that market and consider both to be first-round draft picks. This organization has made great progress in international scouting."
After reading all the posts, I still don`t know what way your son went. Could you let us know. thanks
The Royals signed players for over a million dollars and they are no longer playing baseball. Their current ss signed for 1 thousand dollars and he is in the major leagues....
ballboy6,
BobR's son is playing in college.
BobR's son is playing in college.
Of the 4 teams that made it to the 2008 League Championship Series, the following active roster makeup has about 60% players who attended college, and of the 40% non-college, about 1/3 are international and the rest US kids.
From the college group, many schools are represented, which again shows it doesn't matter where you play, but how you play as far as advancing in pro ball.
Arizona State
Auburn
Cal St Fullerton
Cal State Long Beach
California
Central Arizona
Chipola JC, FL
Cincinnati
Columbia
Concordia, MN
Dallas Baptist
Duquesne
Florida
Florida State
Florida Tech
Fresno State
Georgia Tech
Golden West CC, CA
Gonzaga
Hanyang, Seoul
Kansai Gakuin
Kent State
Kentucky
Kentucky Wesleyan
Louisiana State
McNeese State
Miami, FL
Mississippi State
Mobile
Northeastern
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Oregon State
Pierce JC, CA
Richmond
San Diego State
Senshu
South Alabama
Southern California
Southern Idaho JC
Southern Mississippi
Southwest Missouri State
Southwestern, TX
St. Joseph's, PA
Stanford
Texas
UCLA
Vanderbilt
Virginia
Wichita State
If the CWS is your goal, follow the RPI even though that calculation favors warm weather programs.
From the college group, many schools are represented, which again shows it doesn't matter where you play, but how you play as far as advancing in pro ball.
Arizona State
Auburn
Cal St Fullerton
Cal State Long Beach
California
Central Arizona
Chipola JC, FL
Cincinnati
Columbia
Concordia, MN
Dallas Baptist
Duquesne
Florida
Florida State
Florida Tech
Fresno State
Georgia Tech
Golden West CC, CA
Gonzaga
Hanyang, Seoul
Kansai Gakuin
Kent State
Kentucky
Kentucky Wesleyan
Louisiana State
McNeese State
Miami, FL
Mississippi State
Mobile
Northeastern
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Oregon State
Pierce JC, CA
Richmond
San Diego State
Senshu
South Alabama
Southern California
Southern Idaho JC
Southern Mississippi
Southwest Missouri State
Southwestern, TX
St. Joseph's, PA
Stanford
Texas
UCLA
Vanderbilt
Virginia
Wichita State
If the CWS is your goal, follow the RPI even though that calculation favors warm weather programs.
My son ended up going to the University of Kansas. He is enjoying it, although the schedule is very busy. He has put on about 10 pounds in the first 8 weeks of college. He is happy with his decision and so am I. I think college and the summer college leagues will give him a chance to become more self-reliant and grow mentally as well as physically.
I have done a lot of searching on the site regarding pro or college, and seek opinions regarding a high school catcher.
Like pitcher’s arms, catcher’s legs/knees are important to consider. Given the option of pro or college, does “wear and tear” on a catcher’s knees come into play in this decision at all?
-I do think that the experience in college will help in all kinds of areas: learning the game at a higher level, receiving, hitting, and in some cases depending on the coach - calling the game.
-I also think these same things can be learned in MiLB.
-Given the catchers in the MLB today, with several exceptions (Posada, Varitek, Pudge, hopefully Mauer, among others) a lot of them get worn out and have shorter careers than otherwise successful position players.
-Catchers also have a lot to learn, no disrespect to other positions intended. Handling a pitching staff properly, knowing major league caliber hitters with wood vs. aluminum, throwing game, managing the game from behind the plate. A lot of college coaches run the game that the pro catcher has to learn how to do.
I have read several threads and don’t want to rehash the other factors (money, maturity, desire to play pro ball, etc.) Simply want some opinions if getting the jump start of 3 years by signing out of high school that was mentioned earlier in this thread would be beneficial or detrimental to a catcher for the legs issue (and other beatings to the body that occurs at the position) and for the steep learning curve associated with the pro requirements of catching.
Sorry this seems so long.
This is a great site and I look forward to the opinions out there.
Like pitcher’s arms, catcher’s legs/knees are important to consider. Given the option of pro or college, does “wear and tear” on a catcher’s knees come into play in this decision at all?
-I do think that the experience in college will help in all kinds of areas: learning the game at a higher level, receiving, hitting, and in some cases depending on the coach - calling the game.
-I also think these same things can be learned in MiLB.
-Given the catchers in the MLB today, with several exceptions (Posada, Varitek, Pudge, hopefully Mauer, among others) a lot of them get worn out and have shorter careers than otherwise successful position players.
-Catchers also have a lot to learn, no disrespect to other positions intended. Handling a pitching staff properly, knowing major league caliber hitters with wood vs. aluminum, throwing game, managing the game from behind the plate. A lot of college coaches run the game that the pro catcher has to learn how to do.
I have read several threads and don’t want to rehash the other factors (money, maturity, desire to play pro ball, etc.) Simply want some opinions if getting the jump start of 3 years by signing out of high school that was mentioned earlier in this thread would be beneficial or detrimental to a catcher for the legs issue (and other beatings to the body that occurs at the position) and for the steep learning curve associated with the pro requirements of catching.
Sorry this seems so long.
This is a great site and I look forward to the opinions out there.
The wear and tear on a catcher's legs is essentially the same at the professional level.
Maybe a little less at the professional level, because they platoon the catchers pretty well.
The majority of the high school catchers that I have seen in Milb seem way behind those from the college ranks.
College catchers appear to me to make the transition to the professional level with much more ease.
Initially my son (drafted out of college after his junior year) was assigned to a team with two or three high school catchers.
"We need you to go there for a few weeks to help the high school guys get started."
Unless I was a top three round high school catcher pick, my advice would be to go to college.
While that is obviously true for any player, I think it is particulary critical for catchers.
Hitting ability would probably influence the selection in the top three rounds.
The defensive transition is tough in college and tougher in the Milb.
Hitting is more critical in college, and critical in Milb, too, but there is more time to focus on defense first in the Milb.
Maybe a little less at the professional level, because they platoon the catchers pretty well.
The majority of the high school catchers that I have seen in Milb seem way behind those from the college ranks.
College catchers appear to me to make the transition to the professional level with much more ease.
Initially my son (drafted out of college after his junior year) was assigned to a team with two or three high school catchers.
"We need you to go there for a few weeks to help the high school guys get started."
Unless I was a top three round high school catcher pick, my advice would be to go to college.
While that is obviously true for any player, I think it is particulary critical for catchers.
Hitting ability would probably influence the selection in the top three rounds.
The defensive transition is tough in college and tougher in the Milb.
Hitting is more critical in college, and critical in Milb, too, but there is more time to focus on defense first in the Milb.
quote:Originally posted by FormerObserver:
The majority of the high school catchers that I have seen in Milb seem way behind those from the college ranks.
College catchers appear to me to make the transition to the professional level with much more ease.
FormerObserver, are you saying that 2 catchers, both 21...one in MiLB for three years and one in college for three years...That the college player will be way ahead of that 3 year MiLB catcher at the same point in time?
Or do you mean that on day 1, the 21 year old college catcher will be better than the 18 year old HS draftee?
Just trying to sort out some things said earlier on here (not by you.)
Koko
K, I would agree with FO with two exceptions, but they're related.
Wear and tear on a catcher's knees and the related physicality is MUCH greater in pro ball. From mid-Feb through until very early September, and perhaps a few more weeks if Instrux is attended, ballplayers only have a handfull of days off. Warmups, bullpens, games are a minimum of 9 hours a day. Then add in weights, long busrides, and any extra work they might need in the cages or on the field.
Platooning of catchers will depend on the level and the organization; I can only speak to Short Season, A and High A through two seasons. For a few weeks in SS, my son was on a team with two other catchers. The rest of the time, there were only two. Even on game days, both catchers had to catch bullpens; the starter that night, however, might only catch 4-6 with the bullpen catcher catching the rest...sometimes 10-12 depending on the roster. Then the bullpen catcher warms up every incoming pitcher. Keep in mind that most MiLB pitchers are on a strict pitch count (not to mention any other issues
), so that can easily mean warming up seven or eight pitchers a game.....after all those bullpens earlier in the day.
And I solidly agree that unless a player is getting very early round, serious money....go to college. Wherever they are drafted, there's a 5% chance of making the majors for just a day....and a 3% chance of having a career. College players will be better prepared for life after baseball, which is wear 97% of them will end up.
Wear and tear on a catcher's knees and the related physicality is MUCH greater in pro ball. From mid-Feb through until very early September, and perhaps a few more weeks if Instrux is attended, ballplayers only have a handfull of days off. Warmups, bullpens, games are a minimum of 9 hours a day. Then add in weights, long busrides, and any extra work they might need in the cages or on the field.
Platooning of catchers will depend on the level and the organization; I can only speak to Short Season, A and High A through two seasons. For a few weeks in SS, my son was on a team with two other catchers. The rest of the time, there were only two. Even on game days, both catchers had to catch bullpens; the starter that night, however, might only catch 4-6 with the bullpen catcher catching the rest...sometimes 10-12 depending on the roster. Then the bullpen catcher warms up every incoming pitcher. Keep in mind that most MiLB pitchers are on a strict pitch count (not to mention any other issues
), so that can easily mean warming up seven or eight pitchers a game.....after all those bullpens earlier in the day.And I solidly agree that unless a player is getting very early round, serious money....go to college. Wherever they are drafted, there's a 5% chance of making the majors for just a day....and a 3% chance of having a career. College players will be better prepared for life after baseball, which is wear 97% of them will end up.
I agree with both of you, just wanted to hear responses given my devil's advocate point of view.
Your viewpoints will aid greatly in filling out MLB questionnaires, and also if it comes to home visits later.
Thanks,
Koko
Your viewpoints will aid greatly in filling out MLB questionnaires, and also if it comes to home visits later.
Thanks,
Koko
****THIS POST CONTAINS NO ADVICE****
The forms to be filled out will all contain that special question about Round and Money. Any lack of honesty on the part of the draft-eligible player can lead to selling one's abilities short.
By the way, I found this. Have a go at it.
http://baseballscoutingreport.com/
The forms to be filled out will all contain that special question about Round and Money. Any lack of honesty on the part of the draft-eligible player can lead to selling one's abilities short.
By the way, I found this. Have a go at it.
http://baseballscoutingreport.com/
quote:are you saying that 2 catchers, both 21...one in MiLB for three years and one in college for three years...That the college player will be way ahead of that 3 year MiLB catcher at the same point in time?
No.
quote:on day 1, the 21 year old college catcherwill be betterthan the 18 year old HS draftee?
has a better chance to make the transition.
Orlando, did you forget about the college fall workouts, practices and the summer collegiate league play?
I can only relate what I observed with my son, but there was a noticeable effort to manage catchers "overuse" in a way very similar to what is often discussed with regard to pitchers.
The number of bullpens, the number of inning caught and the timing of those inninngs is closely managed.
Would I encourage my son to go direct to Milb out of high school because the impact on the knees?
(whether more or less)
No, because I think the transition for a high school catcher is more difficult than for a catcher coming out of college.
I can understand how my original post caused some confusion.
Maybe this clarifies it.
FO, I didn't forget about those things at all. I've asked my son just these kinds of questions and relayed his answers here as he has experienced both. Fall work at a D1 (and I'm presuming anyone being considered for a high-ish draft pick will have a D1 offer) has some time restrictions. Then there are days off and holidays. Maybe five hours a day (when they're playing) rather than 9+. Of course, off-season is 4 months long (although they then need to work on their own), but the work is constant for the other 8.
I think for any player any position the transition in college is a plus.
Study rosters, many programs have too many catchers, most are needed for BP work with the pitchers, only a few actually start, in fact, many get converted because of their arms to other positions. This can be a good thing, keeping the workload down. I would think that the concern would be more for the shoulder than knees.
Not too many catchers are drafted well out of HS, take a look at the previous drafts. Would Buster Posey, Jason Castro and Matt Weiters been drafted out of HS very high? Most likely not. They attended programs where their workload (if only a few catchers)and instruction was on par with milb (IMO), and they got their much needed at bats at college. Starting as a catcher is a tough position to win anywhere, and it can take many, many years if not any to ever see a MLB field. Best option is to go to college and get your degree and learn as you go, if one is drafted, it's all just icing on the cake.
JMO.
Study rosters, many programs have too many catchers, most are needed for BP work with the pitchers, only a few actually start, in fact, many get converted because of their arms to other positions. This can be a good thing, keeping the workload down. I would think that the concern would be more for the shoulder than knees.
Not too many catchers are drafted well out of HS, take a look at the previous drafts. Would Buster Posey, Jason Castro and Matt Weiters been drafted out of HS very high? Most likely not. They attended programs where their workload (if only a few catchers)and instruction was on par with milb (IMO), and they got their much needed at bats at college. Starting as a catcher is a tough position to win anywhere, and it can take many, many years if not any to ever see a MLB field. Best option is to go to college and get your degree and learn as you go, if one is drafted, it's all just icing on the cake.
JMO.
quote:..... if one is drafted, it's all just icing on the cake.
TPM,
I don't think you can use Castro as a good example. Posey does not fit too well either.
For Castro, he really did not catch at Stanford his first two years. He played first base, was a DH, and was a back up catcher. However, I don't think he caught a game until the very end of his sophomore year.
He became the starting catcher this past February and had career years with the bat and behind the plate, but is still a bit behind as a catcher according to some predraft information.
While I don't know Posey that well, I know from reading information when the Giants drafted him that he went to college as a shortstop.
I don't think you can use Castro as a good example. Posey does not fit too well either.
For Castro, he really did not catch at Stanford his first two years. He played first base, was a DH, and was a back up catcher. However, I don't think he caught a game until the very end of his sophomore year.
He became the starting catcher this past February and had career years with the bat and behind the plate, but is still a bit behind as a catcher according to some predraft information.
While I don't know Posey that well, I know from reading information when the Giants drafted him that he went to college as a shortstop.
BobR
Congratulations to you and your son.
Now that you are also one of the websters whos son chose college over pro ball,can you tell us what went into his decision to go college?
Congratulations to you and your son.
Now that you are also one of the websters whos son chose college over pro ball,can you tell us what went into his decision to go college?
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
TPM,
I don't think you can use Castro as a good example. Posey does not fit too well either.
For Castro, he really did not catch at Stanford his first two years. He played first base, was a DH, and was a back up catcher. However, I don't think he caught a game until the very end of his sophomore year.
He became the starting catcher this past February and had career years with the bat and behind the plate, but is still a bit behind as a catcher according to some predraft information.
While I don't know Posey that well, I know from reading information when the Giants drafted him that he went to college as a shortstop.
Thanks IFD, maybe all the more reason why HS players should go to college.
The following blog comments were posted on http://roundthird.blogspot.com on Oct. 30:
Improving Collegiate and Pro Baseball Relations
For the past several weeks, we have been suggesting that it would be in College Baseballs best interest to have a synergistic relationship with Major League Baseball. More and more top college players are spending less time in the minors and are often on a fast track to the Bigs. We have stated many times that college provides a controlled, disciplined environment that is governed by professors, teachers assistants, tutors, strength and conditioning coaches, baseball coaches and involves incredible time management skills. Combined with the excellent brand of coaching available in colleges today, you can start to see why many pro scouts are beginning to put their emphasis on college stars.
Now it seems that the NCAA has started to recognize that such a synergy can indeed exist and has begun to take the necessary steps to explore such a relationship. The following story is from CBS College Sports...
SAN DIEGO, Calif. - The University of San Diego head baseball coach Rich Hill has been selected as one of 11 collegiate coaches to participate in a meeting between Major League Baseball and the NCAA baseball coaches to help improve the relations between the two. Hill will be joined on this committee by the legendary head coach at the University of Texas, Augie Garrido, Pate Casey from Oregon State and Ray Tanner from South Carolina, among others.
This years meeting will take place in Las Vegas, Nev. On December 10th, and the meeting will consist of all the MLB Scouting Directors and their assistants, MLB Operations people (Joe Garagiola, Jr., Roy Krasik and Brian Porter), other selected MLB personal and the 12 college coaches.
The two Sides will come together to discuss ways to improve the relationship between college baseball and professional baseball and is put on by the American Baseball Coaches Association.
The one obvious change should be for all baseball players to be introduced as products of their college alma mater like they do in football and basketball. Every college, student, fan and alumni likes to hear their alma mater mentioned in a national or regional broadcast. Everyone knows that Tom Brady went to Michigan or Shaq went to LSU. Imagine the smooth Jon Miller announcing on an ESPN broadcast..."Now batting, from Illinois Central University, Jim Thome." How exciting is it for the students and alumni of this small midwestern college to hear that on a national broadcast?
Another change is limiting the players drafted out of high school to hardship cases...but only if the NCAA increases the scholarship limits to 20. High school players need to experience college. They also need to be able to afford college...and that means more scholarships...And, College Baseball will benefit greatly from those top blue chippers attending their schools. Networks will benefit as well, because colleges have a broader base of customers (present student body, plus decades of alumni) that will grow as more and more blue chip athletes infiltrate the college ranks.
Major League Baseball also benefits from the blue chips going to college by making the MLB draft the type of spectacle that football and basketball enjoy. There's school pride at stake when you involve College players to be a part of a pro sport's future.
The only downside is that more high school players going to college will decrease the need for the plethora of minor league teams. Do we really need an instructional league, rookie league, High A, Low A, AA, AAA. Can't that be pared in half? A college player that has had three years of grueling everyday practices, 56+ games a year, combined with a 40-60 game wood bat summer league experience, will be a bit ahead of the curve and might be a bit over qualified for an instructional league assignment.
We love the College game. We want to see it grow for today's fans and tomorrows future stars. We hope that this meeting of college coaches and MLB officials will be productive to bring this game to new and exciting heights. The way we see it, December 10th can't come soon enough.
RT Staff
Improving Collegiate and Pro Baseball Relations
For the past several weeks, we have been suggesting that it would be in College Baseballs best interest to have a synergistic relationship with Major League Baseball. More and more top college players are spending less time in the minors and are often on a fast track to the Bigs. We have stated many times that college provides a controlled, disciplined environment that is governed by professors, teachers assistants, tutors, strength and conditioning coaches, baseball coaches and involves incredible time management skills. Combined with the excellent brand of coaching available in colleges today, you can start to see why many pro scouts are beginning to put their emphasis on college stars.
Now it seems that the NCAA has started to recognize that such a synergy can indeed exist and has begun to take the necessary steps to explore such a relationship. The following story is from CBS College Sports...
SAN DIEGO, Calif. - The University of San Diego head baseball coach Rich Hill has been selected as one of 11 collegiate coaches to participate in a meeting between Major League Baseball and the NCAA baseball coaches to help improve the relations between the two. Hill will be joined on this committee by the legendary head coach at the University of Texas, Augie Garrido, Pate Casey from Oregon State and Ray Tanner from South Carolina, among others.
This years meeting will take place in Las Vegas, Nev. On December 10th, and the meeting will consist of all the MLB Scouting Directors and their assistants, MLB Operations people (Joe Garagiola, Jr., Roy Krasik and Brian Porter), other selected MLB personal and the 12 college coaches.
The two Sides will come together to discuss ways to improve the relationship between college baseball and professional baseball and is put on by the American Baseball Coaches Association.
The one obvious change should be for all baseball players to be introduced as products of their college alma mater like they do in football and basketball. Every college, student, fan and alumni likes to hear their alma mater mentioned in a national or regional broadcast. Everyone knows that Tom Brady went to Michigan or Shaq went to LSU. Imagine the smooth Jon Miller announcing on an ESPN broadcast..."Now batting, from Illinois Central University, Jim Thome." How exciting is it for the students and alumni of this small midwestern college to hear that on a national broadcast?
Another change is limiting the players drafted out of high school to hardship cases...but only if the NCAA increases the scholarship limits to 20. High school players need to experience college. They also need to be able to afford college...and that means more scholarships...And, College Baseball will benefit greatly from those top blue chippers attending their schools. Networks will benefit as well, because colleges have a broader base of customers (present student body, plus decades of alumni) that will grow as more and more blue chip athletes infiltrate the college ranks.
Major League Baseball also benefits from the blue chips going to college by making the MLB draft the type of spectacle that football and basketball enjoy. There's school pride at stake when you involve College players to be a part of a pro sport's future.
The only downside is that more high school players going to college will decrease the need for the plethora of minor league teams. Do we really need an instructional league, rookie league, High A, Low A, AA, AAA. Can't that be pared in half? A college player that has had three years of grueling everyday practices, 56+ games a year, combined with a 40-60 game wood bat summer league experience, will be a bit ahead of the curve and might be a bit over qualified for an instructional league assignment.
We love the College game. We want to see it grow for today's fans and tomorrows future stars. We hope that this meeting of college coaches and MLB officials will be productive to bring this game to new and exciting heights. The way we see it, December 10th can't come soon enough.
RT Staff
Nice ideas. MLB can use some of the reduced low level spending to help fund the additional grants, and the WOOD BATS
Good article but I don't agree with all of it.
The team my son is on drafts many college players, yet, they have more developmental teams than most MLB teams. Teams won't drop their developmental leagues, it just frees up more space for their foreign players.
Most college players do miss the lower levels, go directly to rookie ss or low A. Despite whatever training is done in college, most players are far below the MLB level when they get drafted and need years of experience getting ready for ML.
The problem has been two fold, the NCAA not liking players leaving early messing up grad rates rates and MLB not paying those a decent bonus who wish to do 3-4 years in college.
JMO.
The team my son is on drafts many college players, yet, they have more developmental teams than most MLB teams. Teams won't drop their developmental leagues, it just frees up more space for their foreign players.
Most college players do miss the lower levels, go directly to rookie ss or low A. Despite whatever training is done in college, most players are far below the MLB level when they get drafted and need years of experience getting ready for ML.
The problem has been two fold, the NCAA not liking players leaving early messing up grad rates rates and MLB not paying those a decent bonus who wish to do 3-4 years in college.
JMO.
One of the first questions that I had when I started observing here was how much did a three year college career reduce a minor league stay.
I thought that maybe three years in college would reduce the stay in the minor leagues by three years.
bbscout indicated that, ON AVERAGE, a high school player spends 4 - 5 years in the minor leagues and a college junior 3-4 years before reaching MLB.
So, from that information, it would appear that going to college is a longer route to MLB, but with slightly higher odds of reaching MLB, in my opinion.
bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted.
It really is two different things.
I did note that bbscouts son went to college.............
I thought that maybe three years in college would reduce the stay in the minor leagues by three years.
bbscout indicated that, ON AVERAGE, a high school player spends 4 - 5 years in the minor leagues and a college junior 3-4 years before reaching MLB.
So, from that information, it would appear that going to college is a longer route to MLB, but with slightly higher odds of reaching MLB, in my opinion.
bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted.
It really is two different things.
I did note that bbscouts son went to college.............
quote:bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted.
It really is two different things.
It is not that simple when no bonus is involved. No bonus means no investment which can mean "easily disposed of".
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Infield08:
The following blog comments were posted on http://roundthird.blogspot.com on Oct. 30:
Improving Collegiate and Pro Baseball Relations
December 10th can't come soon enough.
/QUOTE]
Just as was said, when the Attorney's paid $1M
to a PR firm to improve their image.
It's NOT enough.
The following blog comments were posted on http://roundthird.blogspot.com on Oct. 30:
Improving Collegiate and Pro Baseball Relations
December 10th can't come soon enough.
/QUOTE]
Just as was said, when the Attorney's paid $1M
to a PR firm to improve their image.
It's NOT enough.
With no bonus, I don't think that many HS players with scholarship will sign instead of going to college first. All that a good signing bonus actually means (I am not talking about the elite top picks) less financial struggle while doing your time in milb, unless you have a rich family to help support you.
This year I read where second and third rounders from my son's first draft year were let go. Sometimes it isn't about bonus, but about age. By 23,24 out of HS, if still in the lowest levels, getting close to your fifth year (now it is six) and not headed for the 40 man roster, they will release you or players ask for release, no matter how much they have paid out in bonus $$. Getting hurt doesn't always mean a release, depends on what tools you came with in the first place. A friend of my son's a top pick in 2005, has not seen much time on the mound due to injury, but IMO he is one of the best pichers I have seen, he is close to 25, but I doubt they will let him go and protect him because he most likely will make a contribution, just a bit later than anyone expected. A college player just drafted at 22-23 still has 6 years within the system to improve and 3-4 years of college if things don't work out, which doesn't happen often.
Sometimes it is about players and their folks thinking that they just worth more than the round they are projected for. Sometimes its about getting your at bats in while going to class, sometimes it's about pitchers fear of over use and getting hurt in college. Very few teams draft HS pitchers high unless they have all of the pitchers tools and just need time to develop physically and work up to the required 170-200+ innings needed to become a ML starter. Top college pitchers putting in close to that in summer league and on the college mound are almost there. Sometimes its about the team that has interest in you, and their farm system.
Yes, it's all complicated, but I agree with what FO posted regarding bbscouts comments.
Should be interesting to see how the NCAA and MLB will work together. Personally I think that MLB prefers that many players out of HS (unless the elite) to go to college first, they provide better competition for their top picks to play against and less time and money they have to invest in a player.
IMO this is about business, not what may be best for everyone.
This year I read where second and third rounders from my son's first draft year were let go. Sometimes it isn't about bonus, but about age. By 23,24 out of HS, if still in the lowest levels, getting close to your fifth year (now it is six) and not headed for the 40 man roster, they will release you or players ask for release, no matter how much they have paid out in bonus $$. Getting hurt doesn't always mean a release, depends on what tools you came with in the first place. A friend of my son's a top pick in 2005, has not seen much time on the mound due to injury, but IMO he is one of the best pichers I have seen, he is close to 25, but I doubt they will let him go and protect him because he most likely will make a contribution, just a bit later than anyone expected. A college player just drafted at 22-23 still has 6 years within the system to improve and 3-4 years of college if things don't work out, which doesn't happen often.
Sometimes it is about players and their folks thinking that they just worth more than the round they are projected for. Sometimes its about getting your at bats in while going to class, sometimes it's about pitchers fear of over use and getting hurt in college. Very few teams draft HS pitchers high unless they have all of the pitchers tools and just need time to develop physically and work up to the required 170-200+ innings needed to become a ML starter. Top college pitchers putting in close to that in summer league and on the college mound are almost there. Sometimes its about the team that has interest in you, and their farm system.
Yes, it's all complicated, but I agree with what FO posted regarding bbscouts comments.
Should be interesting to see how the NCAA and MLB will work together. Personally I think that MLB prefers that many players out of HS (unless the elite) to go to college first, they provide better competition for their top picks to play against and less time and money they have to invest in a player.
IMO this is about business, not what may be best for everyone.
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:quote:bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted.
It really is two different things.
It is not that simple when no bonus is involved. No bonus means no investment which can mean "easily disposed of".
I have to disagree.
No bonus means there is a greater risk that the player will not develop into a major league player...
Players are disposed of when they fail to develop... If you have a big bonus odds are you are a pretty good player so you are going to be around for a while to begin with.
Risk determines the bonus, Ability/development determines when your released
njbb,
I agree, good post.
I agree, good post.
I don't think there is going to be any changes in the relationship between colleges and pro ball.. Why would pro ball want to change?
I don't think pro ball really cares if HS players go to college or not, If anything they would rather them not have a choice.. Also why take away a HS players freedom of choice?
MLB wants whats best for MLB.
I don't think pro ball really cares if HS players go to college or not, If anything they would rather them not have a choice.. Also why take away a HS players freedom of choice?
MLB wants whats best for MLB.
quote:It is not that simple when no bonus is involved. No bonus means no investment which can mean "easily disposed of".
Sometimes I think, in some ways, there is too much emphasis on the money.
We never discuss here in very specific terms the desire of our boys to play baseball.
When my son goes to bed at night, he still dreams of being an MLB baseball player. He has since he was at least 10 or 11 years old.
From what I've seen so far, had my son been drafted in the early rounds and received "life changing" money, I still wouldn't be too confident of not being "easily disposed of"
Only about 100 of the 1500 drafted every year will actually get any "life changing" money.
Those players are drafted in the first three rounds and get that money do so because of their projected time to MLB ( concept not often discussed here). David Price is a perfect example.
If your son is projected as a top 3 round pick, then I think it is appropriate to compare with other players that have those same characteristics. Beyond the third round the picture changes dramatically, and after the 10th, it's just where you want to play, MiLB, or college.
But, lets say that the round is the 5th round (maybe $150,000 to $200,000) and that you have a big time D1 schloarship NLI agreement in your pocket.
That's probably just slighly below what I, and many others, consider breakeven. How much money do you lose by deferring your career by delaying it for five years while you play in MiLB? Five years at an entry level starting salary of $30,000 to $40,000.
With hindsight, I am thankful that my son was not drafted out of high school. He would have signed for a nickel because that is what he has a burning desire to do. Maturity is a huge issue. My son has always been very mature. I think the maturity he gained playing baseball for three years in college was necessary for him to be able to compete in Milb.
When he was drafted, in a lower round than expected and less money on the table than made sense to forego a final senior season "FULLY" funded, still considering the deferral of starting a normal career for five more years, and after mulling the offer over for about three days, he said, "Dad, I want to go play. I want to see if I can make it."
The money didn't matter.
"bbscout said if you want to go to school go to school, if you want to play baseball, sign when drafted."
Minor league baseball is to baseball what a business degree is to a business person.
It really is two different things.
njbb,
Again I agree, MLB wants whats best for MLB and the NCAA wants what's best for the NCAA.
NCAA is realizing that their former players can make them some bucks. Announcing that David Price (as an example) went to Vanderbilt is great publicity for Vandy and the SEC and the NCAA.
Every scout that was seriously considering drafting son told him in the end that college was his best choice. I don't think they cared either, one way or the other, but not sure that would be the same if he was the top HS pick in the country. They don't want to lose those type of players to college, those are the ones they care about.
It's really hard for many of them to look into a cystal ball to see where a HS player will be in 3-4 years and don't want to pay what many HS players demand in bonus. So they lose many due to signability issues.
Again I agree, MLB wants whats best for MLB and the NCAA wants what's best for the NCAA.
NCAA is realizing that their former players can make them some bucks. Announcing that David Price (as an example) went to Vanderbilt is great publicity for Vandy and the SEC and the NCAA.
Every scout that was seriously considering drafting son told him in the end that college was his best choice. I don't think they cared either, one way or the other, but not sure that would be the same if he was the top HS pick in the country. They don't want to lose those type of players to college, those are the ones they care about.
It's really hard for many of them to look into a cystal ball to see where a HS player will be in 3-4 years and don't want to pay what many HS players demand in bonus. So they lose many due to signability issues.
Formerobserver,
Good post and I think for many boys it is this way. I agree that with college comes a lot of maturity. But if you have finished 3 years and you get a chance to play in the MLB then Hey do what your heart tells you to do. At that point many boys would play for peanuts. Its many boys dreams and they are young and this is their time to chase those dremas reality hits soon enough then its work until you retire, raise a family and you dont have that young single freedom again. You only get one shot and one time aroundon this earth there are no do overs. To me go for the gusto, at leat you can know in your heart yu gave it your best shot.
Good post and I think for many boys it is this way. I agree that with college comes a lot of maturity. But if you have finished 3 years and you get a chance to play in the MLB then Hey do what your heart tells you to do. At that point many boys would play for peanuts. Its many boys dreams and they are young and this is their time to chase those dremas reality hits soon enough then its work until you retire, raise a family and you dont have that young single freedom again. You only get one shot and one time aroundon this earth there are no do overs. To me go for the gusto, at leat you can know in your heart yu gave it your best shot.
quote:Sometimes I think, in some ways, there is too much emphasis on the money.
We never discuss here in very specific terms the desire of our boys to play baseball.
When my son goes to bed at night, he still dreams of being an MLB baseball player. He has since he was at least 10 or 11 years old.
From what I've seen so far, had my son been drafted in the early rounds and received "life changing"
money, I still wouldn't be too confident of not being "easily disposed of"
Only about 100 of the 1500 drafted every year will actually get any "life changing" money.
I believe the dreams are " a given"
I never mentioned "life changing money". I said BONUS. That value is different for all kids.
I agree on the amount of the bonus relating to probability/talent, and opportunity, and tolerance for failures.
I stick the point I made, and make again. There is a bottom dollar amount that equates to each individual and their desire to forego college. It has been measured several ways, but 3 years out of a professional job market is a start, as well as the COA and the college life experiences, including baseball.
fanofgame "at some point many boys would play for peanuts."
And who supports them financially?
quote:And who supports them financially?
Good point, slugger.
With no bonus and $1,100 for the season, the number of years that a player can allocate to his major league dreams is limited.
But, I see many getting it done.
Working in the offseason and living very meagerly in season.
Host families reduce housing costs and sometimes transportation significantly. On out of town travel the team pays for lodging and a per diem for meals ($20 per day, I think).
They don't have time to spend money in season, anyway.
Maturity has an impact here, too.
quote:There is a bottom dollar amount that equates to each individual and their desire to forego college.
In my son's case, bottom dollar was $0.
ONE of the obstacles that he overcame getting to Milb was college......................
quote:And who supports them financially?
In my son's case, I do, and, I don't view that any different than sending him to college.
I am sending him to Milb to support his career decision.
The odds are that he will not accomplish his dream.
You can't steal second base with one foot on first, and when he gets thrown out, I am gonna help him up, dust him off, register him for school, and let MLB pay for it.
quote:You only get one shot and one time aroundon this earth there are no do overs. To me go for the gusto, at leat you can know in your heart yu gave it your best shot.
And, on a 3-2 pitch down 4 with the bases loaded, you gotta take a rip.
FO,
I love your posts.
I love your posts.
Again, these are "givens". Solid parents will always support their kids.
IF and that is such a HUGE if my son got the shot we would help him anyway we could.
I am very into the education and want my son to get his degree. I am just saying that a lot of these boys would want to give it a shot. If they get offered to play in MLB, lets say they are 20, 21, they are not thinking that by spending three years in MLB making very little money I could of been in the work force and had a raise already. At least my son wouldnt be.
Its such a long shot and the original poster is just pondering the questions. again every player has to do whats best for them and their lives and careers.
Most of us are realistic and want are boys to get a chance to play in college and graduate with a degree.But I know my son and his passion for the game and he would go just for the experience.
I am very into the education and want my son to get his degree. I am just saying that a lot of these boys would want to give it a shot. If they get offered to play in MLB, lets say they are 20, 21, they are not thinking that by spending three years in MLB making very little money I could of been in the work force and had a raise already. At least my son wouldnt be.
Its such a long shot and the original poster is just pondering the questions. again every player has to do whats best for them and their lives and careers.
Most of us are realistic and want are boys to get a chance to play in college and graduate with a degree.But I know my son and his passion for the game and he would go just for the experience.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
... But I know my son and his passion for the game and he would go just for the experience.
My son is the same way. Not many get to experience such things.
FO - awesome thoughts! You rooting for Texas Tech this evening?
Fun, ain't it?