Puig

I'm not trading this guy for anything...

He's a game changer and he's VERY young and immature, but he's like a kid in a candystore here in the US compared to Cuba hopefully the 'newness' wears off over time...

If I'm the Dodgers, I'm keeping this dude in the lineup and on the field.

I would be more patient than that.  What you have is an uneducated young man experiencing not only his first taste of freedom, but also suddenly flush with wealth beyond his comprehension.  Given his talent level, I think I'd give him more time to grow up.

I was actually thinking how unfair it is that anyone in the world can get caught speeding, even at 110 mph (yikes!), and escape notice pretty much.  But if you're a star athlete, even just a college player, for some reason it's all over the news.

If I were with the Dodgers, I would talk to him about not being so reckless with his own life and the lives of those around him.  But I do think this is not at the level of being caught doing serious drugs, carrying drug dealer-style weaponry, or some of the other things we've seen at times.  This one rates as a young and foolish mistake, though one he'd be well advised to avoid repeating since people who do this regularly have a tendency to end up dead. 

In particular I remember a former Richmond Braves player named Jose Olivo who had some MLB time but who never got to blossom because he wrapped his sports car around a tree while home in the DR.  Much like what happened to the movie star a few weeks ago. 

I would trade him for the reasons mentioned above by Fenway, and a couple of more.  One, his irresponsible behavior may cost him his life, or worse, others.  That leaves you either without a great player, or with a PR nightmare.  Another issue, is you never know if he is really just 23.  

Ha Ha, this BS cracks me up.  Look I hate the Dodgers and hope they lose 162 games every year, I am a Giants fan.  However I am tired of Everyone banging on Puig.  He is a child that has never been taught what to do.  He comes from nothing and is experiencing money and freedom for the first time in his life and he is living it to his fullest.  110?  Really?  Is he a dummy, absolutely!  I have driven 110 on a freeway and I know a lot of people that have done it (BTW it was stupid and I am not advocating it) .  The problem is everyone wants to sit behind there computers and play the roll of Moralistic Moses.  Let the guy be, the Dodgers should never trade this guy.  The GM of the Cardinals put it best when the signed Peralta.  We are not responsible for being the Moralistic Police of the game, the guy served his time and is free to play.  I mean seriously take a look at some of the guys in the HOF that are revered as the greatest players ever and you know what, they are bad human beings.  Ty Cobb was an outright bigot but yet he is considered to be on the Mount Rush Moore of Baseball.  However, pimp a home run, overthrow a cut, go 110 on the freeway and you should be banned from baseball.  What a joke!

Let the Dodgers handle it however they so choose AFTER the court system does. Obviously the "community service" he did the last time didn't teach him much. Call it his second offense for reckless driving and give him the penalty that anybody else would get... if that includes jail time that includes jail time.

Folks,

I'm not sure how this turned into a moralistic discussion.  I don't care what the legal system does to him either.  This is a business discussion regarding one of your employees.  What would you do?   

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with being the moralistic voice of the game.  Baseball is a business, and if people are taking undue risks, it must be factored in along with his other issues.  I simply say he isn't worth the risk. He is a train wreck waiting to happen, and he is putting people's lives at risk by his wreckless behavior.  

I think he is a jackass, and I wouldn't want him on my team.  The Dodgers have the money to sign whomever they want, why waste their money on this fool?

That is my contention as well.  They don't need to invest in him, when they have become the Yankees of the West.  Sign a better person to be the face of your organization.

Good luck finding a player that will provide the ROI he provides at the price they're paying him. 

I am in agreement with Midlo. 

He will settle in, give the guy a break.  No way do you trade anyone with that talent unless that dries up. Yes, he needs a mentor in the clubhouse, and most of them do have guys there just for that reason.

FWIW, you guys have no idea how many HS top paid prospects go through the same maturation process. 

Cardinals young ace Shelby Miller got into some serious trouble while in AA.  Kept pretty quiet, he was experiencing what many young guys do for 19,20 year olds. This is the nature of the business and especially when you give someone (anyone) a LOT of money.

Giving someone millions of dollars doesn't make them automatically responsible.

Fenway - As a business discussion, I'm keeping him on the team, on the field & hitting in the middle of the lineup!  The Dodgers are in the business of baseball, putting butts in the seats & selling shirts.  He helps them do all of those things.  The Dodgers arguably haven't had a more exciting player since Fernando Valenzuela arrived from a small pueblo in Mexico!  Fernando mania has become Puig mania!

Is Puig a little crazy?  Does he make poor decisions on and off the field?  Absolutely.  What 20 something with cash wouldn't go out and buy the fastest car they could find and drive it as fast as they could?

And if you've ever driven across Alligator Alley in the middle of the night you were either driving 90mph or wish you were!

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com

To the best of my knowledge, every professional baseball player has to sign an agreement with a laundry list of "no can do's". I'm sure speeding/reckless driving is on that list. The dodgers should take the appropriate action as it applies to the agreement.

Baseball is a business, and just like any other business it has to discipline its employees. At some point, the business has to decide if keeping an employee that breaks the rules is worth the risk.

My guess, based on his talent, that he will get a few more chances to grow up. But, at some point, continued bad behavior will effect the business. 

GO GIANTS!

Interesting feedback.  So, most of you playing GMs would keep him around assuming he can continue at his current levels and hoping he turns the corner on maturity.  JH stated his ROI is pretty darn high and would be tough to replace.  I think everyone agrees on that point.  Talent at that price is off the charts.  He is a steal.

As I stated earlier, I don't question his talent or work ethic.  What I see is a stubborn,  uncoachable exciting guy freelancing it with no plate discipline.   I'm not saying these are easy decisions either.  The Dodgers GM and FO has to be hoping and praying this turns itself around because he has 6 years left on that contract.  I can't help to wonder is this guy costing them more games than he is winning.  I think the answer to that question is "no" right now.   But, he has my attention if I'm the GM or FO.

His WAR for a rookie is 2.1, very hard to replace for sure!

And at 6 mil a year he comes cheap!

He was 22 just turning 23 when called up, a guy who grew up in poverty and had a bidding war for his services.

I am not too sure what people expect?

The people at fault are the ones who are paying his check, not the player.

If this is the stat-line for a 22 year-old "exciting guy freelancing it"...:

Games played: 104

Batting Avg.: .319

Hits: 122
Doubles: 21
HR: 19

RBI: 42
SLG: 534
OBO: .925

Gimme, as many as you can of those "freelancers"... please!

I'm reminded of a question once asked Don Zimmer regarding Bill Lee. Lee was very critical of Zimmer. He nicknamed him The Gerbil. He made Zimmer jokes. Zimmer was asked if Lee is funny. Zimmer replied, "It depends how many games he's winning." 

I'm not making a moral judgement on the situation, but when you're employee is worth something on the order of $20M/yr more to you than you're paying him, he's going to get a hell of a lot of rope.  This isn't any different in professional sports than it is in any other high-profile, big money situation.

You left out WAR, which was 2.1, Cano's at that age was 0.2.

I believe a recent world series MVP had two DUI's. The recent triple crown winner had one.  A Cy Young winner got arrested for smoking weed while driving.

So should the teams have gotten rid of them when they got in trouble (which by the way happened in the off season away from the field).  I don't remember seeing any discussion here about any of those incidents.

Point is, if you are a high profile personality, everyone is gonna know your business but its not going to stop you from being who you are, until you grow up.

Fenway,

Not getting on ya, good discussion, but I am standing in young Puig's corner!

This is a simple equation:

Amount of grief an organization will tolerate is a direct function of talent/age. 

Last week, MLB Network re-ran the entire Ken Burns documentary series.  I never tire of re-watching it, and have been working my way through them on my DVR the past several days.

A lot of what we're now saying about Puig was said about another player about 95 years ago.  A young kid whose baseball skills were all that got him out of a prison-like reform school and a likely career in a shirt-making factory, but who had no idea how to behave in public or how to handle himself in the outside world.  He did things like marry a waitress he met on his first day in his new MLB home town; cheat on her serially; frequent brothels all over the league circuit; stay out all night eating and drinking; live fast and big, drive flashy cars, wear furs and other fancy clothes.

His initial success only made it worse for some time, until he hit bottom, and also hooked up with a new woman who rode herd on him.

You might've heard of him, a guy named Ruth.

Fenway, your forbears sold him away.  Was that a good idea?

Cardinal fan here.  Puig is a talent and is very young.  Some people regardless of occupation who find success quickly have a hard time dealing with it.  Puig is no different.  What the Dodgers need to do is corral him some because his actions do pose a possible threat to the general public and to the organization.  In some way treat him the way you would your own child and nurture. 

With regards to the on the field stuff, that is a different matter.  The showboating on the field is hard for me to take.  However, that would be for players from every team in MLB including my Cardinals.  When he does dumb things like his throwing errors, he needs to be coached.  If he is abusive to those coaches and refuses to play team ball, then punish him with the pine or send him down to give him the message.  He is under contract for a long time and so, you have to both pat him on the back and kick him in the butt.  I look forward to watching him play for a long time because I am a fan of the game. 

No sweat.  It's a message board for crying out loud.  LOL!

I brought it up because I thought it was a good discussion point and I've yet to make up my mind if I was the GM.  I mentioned in my initial post that "my first thought is to give him until the 2014 trading deadline to grow up.  If not, trade him and see what you can get. Take the loss if you have to.  My second thought is to trade for a proven clubhouse veteran to turn Puig around."  I asked for thoughts.   I got them.  I have not made up my mind on the topic.

Here is why this intrigues me so much.....team chemistry.   It is difficult to manage 25 guys.  Never mind 25 MLB egos.   We've all seen Puig make the most spectacular plays, and we've seen him make tons of fundamental errors.  In both cases they have won games or lost games.   Everybody is fine with it right now because the Dodgers are doing well. Everybody agrees Puig is more than a handful and is on his own program.   We all know this is a buy low/sell high business.  What if Puig doesn't have a successful sophomore season?  Then are the headaches worth dealing with?  I'm just playing devil's advocate here.  It's a good discussion   Most of us have been around teams with individuals that are extremely difficult to deal with.  If it is one thing I've learned, leopards don't change their spots. 

Midlo - Agreed.  I never tire of the Ken Burns "Baseball" series.  My wife rolls her eyes when she sees me watching it, again.  I could watch it 24x7.   Good point about Ruth.   He turned out decent. 

The Burns baseball series is available on Netflix.

he may turn out great for the Yankees of the West, but I am glad he isn't a Brave!

Fenway,

 As far as winning and losing games because of his errors, he is doing his OTJ training in ML. I am not sure that Albuquerque NM was the right place for him to be in for too long.

FWIW, on several occasions I have seen teams lose on the lower levels because the "star" had way too many errors. That's the nature of the beast.

It's been printed that the Dodgers aren't too happy with him, I understand, he could have killed himself, even worse, someone else.

Funny, IMO, he is still a kid, but probably has seen more than any kid his age might ever have seen, so for that he gets a few free passes, at least.

As a life long Dodgers fan and Southern California native,  I've been very critical of Puig's play in the outfield (missing cutoff man, etc...) and stupid base running mistakes.  However, you can count on one hand the players that I'd choose over him to start a franchise, especially when you consider his current contract and the ROI the Dodgers will receive the next few years...Yasiel Puig is the ultimate five tool player.

Yes, he is extremely immature.  In regards to his speed/reckless driving, honestly, I had a lead foot in my early 20's and drove my vehicles at and beyond Puig's current citation.  Do I condone it?  Absolutely not, but there is a maturation process that we all go through and evidently the young Cuban is still learning?  He's not beating his girlfriend, taking drugs, or committing other felonious crimes...the kid simply needs to learn to use cruise control. 

BTW, I don't appreciate his show-boating and other on field antics, but there's no denying his talent and the fact that he's a major difference maker in the lineup for the Dodgers.  Lastly, he appears to sincerely enjoy the fans, both young and old.  The majority of Puig's problems are reflected with his lack of maturity, and that may take another year or so?  JMO....good or bad.

Good comparison Midlo Dad. Not that Puig will become anything resembling Ruth but that wasn't the point. A lot of young kids from bad backgrounds have to be given time to grow up. After all, they didn't have us raising them or to guide them!

ML talent is too expensive and elusive to just give away in trades especially when other teams sense it is being done because of problems like Puig's. Besides then the "problem" moves somewhere else and the same question about moving him can be  asked of whatever team he lands on.

The question I ask is "Can anyone here take their eyes off him when he is playing?" I think the vast majority of people would answer NO whether they approve of his actions or not. That combined with his raw talent means he is too valuable to give away.

rynoattack, don't tell me you wouldn't take Puig straight up for the nearly useless BJ Upton straight up right now especially when you consider the age and salaries!

Good point by TPM about all the major talents that have done even more serious lawbreaking. At least Puig was apparently not driving while impared as a very recently elected Hall of Fame manager who most of us admire was a few years ago.

The only way any team is going to get rid of Puig is if he becomes a big problem in the clubhouse.  When and if that happens it will affect the entire teams performance and they will want him out.  Of course, there will be other teams that will want him.

His biggest problem IMO is he isn't a smart player.  Time will tell if he becomes one at some point.  One of my problems with using metrics to rate a player is some things just can't be accounted for when it comes to intelligence or feel for the game.  Things like bad positioning, missing signs, mental mistakes, etc.  Without considering things like that the dumb player is equal to the smart player.

Anyway his ability is off the chart.  It's going to take a lot more than driving 110 mph before anyone gives up on him.  What is the worst thing he has done so far?  I doubt it is bad enough to give up on someone with the potential to be one of the best in the game. The best players aren't all a bunch of choir boys. You don't have to have the nicest people and best behavior to be a champion. Also, many of the best could be labeled risk takers or thrill seekers.

The Dodgers have one of the smartest baseball men on Earth running the show. He will know when the time is right to make a change, if one is ever needed.  There's no way any of us could make that decision because we would never know enough about the entire situation. And no matter who the player is... There's always a good trade possibility.

This is the third time he's done this-twice in pros, once in minors. Not the sharpest crayon in the box.

He's going nowhere because he's productive  ON the field. IMO he's another Hamilton who will be assigned a handler to keep him out of further trouble. Would love to see him loose his license for a yr and he can take his millions and hire a driver.

The point that I would like to make is that he makes bad decisions off the field and on the field.  One of these times, he may die because of his bad decisions.  Driving that fast on civilian streets, is wreckless and a menace to society.  Many seem to be acting like it is no big deal.  What happens when he kills someone?  Some are saying, "I drove like this as a young man."  My question is: were you arrested twice in the same year for it?  Also, how do you know he's not doing drugs, driving drunk at times, etc.?  You don't.  

I believe he is headed for serious trouble, and the enabling that is going on is ridiculous.  We as fans aren't any better when we act like wreck less driving is no big deal.  It is?  What if it was you or a loved one who dies because of this fool?

When we bought son a truck for his graduation (at 18) we made sure that it didn't go over 100mph.

I know he hit 100 quite a few times.  It all didn't sink in until he realized he could lose his license. Call it irresponsible, yes I do.  Kids will be kids and boys will be boys.

Now I have a really funny story to share. In PR, there are no buses to take you to games so the players get cars to share for transportation.

One night coming home late after a game, on the major highway, they saw in the distance tail lights which appeared not to be moving. Being unfamiliar with their surroundings they slowed down trying to decide what to do. Should we pull over and get out of the car, should they turn around?  As they got closer they realized that the cars were lined up, for drag racing.

There is no highway patrol in Puerto Rico!

I don't think anyone here is condoning his actions. Do you really think believe the Dodgers are "enabling" him? If I was a GM of another team, I'd be happy to take Puig off their hands. A talent like that with that contract is literally impossible to find on the open market. The Dodgers would be absolutely foolish to give him up if he continues to provide them with the value he provides them. They aren't the moral police, they're businesspeople.

Well, I guess. we will see if they give him a punishment with some teeth.  He obviously isn't learning.  Hopefully, he won't share the same fate as Bobby Phills...

I wouldn't take Puig for Upton.  Obviously, that would be unpopular here.  I prefer to have high character guys on my team.  Is it getting hard to police a whole team and know exactly what everyone is up to?  Sure; it may not be time to give up on him yet, but the warning signs are there.

I had a 67 GTO when I was a kid that I drove a lot faster than 110MPH a couple of times. 

Not that anyone would care on a message board. 

rynoattack- Wouldn't everyone prefer high character individuals on their team? I'm not trying to nitpick, I just feel that your expectations are completely unrealistic. We're discussing grown men, who lead very different lives and have very different personalities. I don't think it's possible-- or appropriate-- to "police" everyone.

For the record, a Vice President of a big league team told me that he "wouldn't touch Puig with a 10 foot pole" prior to any negative attention began to befall him. The character concerns are a legitimate issue, and are not a new concern. But, Rome wasn't built in a day and human beings mature at different rates.

I don't think I am unrealistic at all.  I don't like him, and I don't want him on my team.  I think he is a low character guy, who doesn't make good decisions.  I believe that is a recipe for disaster. I would build my team with character guys.  Does that mean I wouldn't have to deal with instances of guys making poor decisions?  Of course not, but I will have to deal with less, and my team's could focus on what they should...winning ball games.

What if he's the best available option-- by far-- to help your team win? And he comes at a price so incredibly discounted in comparison to a what player of his caliber typically garners on the open market?