Question for Midwest Prospects, PG and others of the same:

oldbat-never,
It would be interesting to see if anyone has this information, but there is such a range of players size with these teens that I'm not sure it would matter to me.

"If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot."

Good point, I totally agree there is such a range of size/shape in these ages, but it has been my experience that unfortunatly at these ages they are being compared to their peers for spots on the HS teams esp. in the Freshman/JV level. During showcases, camps and clinics they are also always grouped by age/grade not by size.

I am just wondering if there is data on an average by age to see what a "norm" is.

Oldbat,

So uncomfortable typing in your name............

Maybe reading a little between the lines, but it seems like you would like to know how your son compares to his peers.

In another thread there was a question by grandslam,

quote:

---

What 60 yard time does a guy need to be considered for an outfield position at a top D1 program?

---

bbscout's reply was as follows:

quote:

---

The 60yd dash won't make or break a coaches opinion of you unless it is extreme. A 6.5 or a 8.00 could sway his opinion, but the nickname you use will sway him a lot more. A kid who is a real good hitter and is an adequate runner will get lots of attention. A CF is a player that will be a good runner, but if you can hit and don't run very fast, they will just move you to left or right.

---

The reason that I quoted bbscout was to demonstrate that there is more to the decision than just simply speed regardless of the level.

My guess is that with your interest in this site, your son is likely a baseball player. I think that most of the time kids that are baseball players make their freshmen and JV teams in the 9th and 10th grades regardless of their "times".

Average velocity: Pros look for 90, but there are pitchers in the pros that don't throw 90. I have seen 78-83 pretty consistently in high school pitchers. Some freshmen can throw 80. Some seniors can't throw 78.

Average Pop: Pros look for under 2.0 but there are catchers in the pros that don't throw under 2.0. I have seen come catchers under 2.0 in high school. Colleges will take 2.1 or better. High school take what they can get, someone that can catch the ball consistenly.

Average speed. MLB average is 7.0 Speed capability is usually present relatively young and it can be improved. For any high school age over 7.5 to 8.0 is relatively slow and under 7.0 is fast. I've seen a freshmen at 6.6.

One of the biggest changes for high school player s coming out of select is hitting. In select the best defensive play, because they usually bat the 10 batters or even the full roster.

In high school, the best nine hitters play somewhere regardless of their speed, arm speed, and pop times.

If your son can hit, he will play.

Thank you for the info. The reason for the post is due to one of those duhhhhhhhhhh moments we have in the middle of the night. You see, my son attended his first camp yesterday at a local college. They did an evaluation and to be honest I don't know the results of that and won't for a week or two. I couldn't tell you what the times were for any of the players or the radar speeds. But last night I was thinking about this experience at the college and this site and all the showcase questions and I just thought wow, with all the info. complied at these showcases I have never seen stats compiled by age/grade....... Wonder if anyone else ever thought about this?? Also, wouldn't it be nice to tap into those that do this on a regular basis and see if there is an average instead of this is what it would take, this is what they look for.

Again one of those duh moments in the middle of the night, wouldn't this be interesting to know? And maybe some of this information on averages would be used during those conversations at the camps/clinics/showcases/games when we are all sitting around talking about a certain player and how hard/fast they throw or how fast/slow they run and then someone could interject with "yea he may throw xyz but you know the average for that age really is about......."

Hence the question. I am just a person that fills their head with a lot of numbers and sometimes useless trivia.

There are always those on the top end of the spectrum and those in the bottom, I am just wondering what is average amongst those that seek out baseball as a chosen sport.

Oldbat-never,
I have been curious about the average too but even if PG or Midwest Prospects were to determined this, it would only reflect those that attended their events. I think I know what you are trying to accomplish. You would like to know where your son stacks up. Is he average, above average, good, poor or excellent? If you try to put this into a formula, I think you will end up chasing a ghost. This can be very frustrating because proper evaluation is probably the most important aspect of recruiting.
I have to go with Former Observer on this one. The average is really meaningless. What we have to identify is the minimum acceptable level in order to make the “cut”. Understand too that this minimum is variable depending on the player’s other skills and the needs or requirements of the recruiting college. In other words, colleges are looking for a total package but they do put a significant amount of importance on specific skills. Different skills also weigh in with different degrees of importance. Depending on a player’s position will also determine the importance of his different skills. Catchers don’t need to run and pitchers don’t need to hit. First basemen don’t need to have a strong arm but they need to have a good bat. Third basemen have to be gutsy and quick but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are fast. Outfielders and shortstops probably have to have more skills than the other positions but not necessarily the best skills (except speed).
Get as many evaluations as you can and ask the evaluators where they think your son can play and why. You will start to develop an understanding of his strengths and weaknesses and how your son stacks up against the other players.
Best of luck,
Fungo

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

What people tend to forget is that the only thing that matters,as the result of showcases, travel teams et al, is what colleges are contacting the player-- this will tell you the true talent level and where he stands

I think we , as parents, tend to get too clinical in terms of the numbers and who compares to who

TRhit

Thanks for the information and ideas. We are still learning as we are many yrs away from wondering where our son is in the world of baseball. Yes, there is always curiosity, but in this one occasion it wasn't what I was searching for. The technician in me just came out in the middle of the night after spending a day back in the baseball element at a very good college skills camp... I just sat there looking at all of these parents/players and I thought they are all searching for information, answers or just that nod. What are they going to do once they go home, read their evaluation (as it is sent to them not published on a website) and then what, then the questions start.........

Driving home from day one of the camp I had 4 underclassman in my car all talking about how fast or slow they think they ran, how fast or slow they may have thrown. All of them newbies in this process, they were all talking about the number in the sky that it takes, I as a mom, wanted to just look at each of these boys and say guys,,,,,,,,you are young, you have lots of time here is what the community of baseball players are doing for times (give them the averages) the tell them to work on your game, work in school take it step by step. Give them another piece of information to help in the process.

That is when this idea popped in my head, wouldn't it be nice to see a chart with some across the board averages. I know this isn't important to the standouts, the older boys but for the younger players it may be something they can just look at to compliment their evaluation.

Then I thought, why hasn't anyone asked this before........Guess I am understanding now that it isn't a matter of looking at the averages, it is a matter of the package. I agree with that for the upperclassman going through the process, but as a parent of an underclassman, we are still in the "newbie" stage and sometimes this information is helpful in the process to use as a motivator or as a guide. We aren't shooting for the moon, just trying to make the HS team and take it one season/year at a time. And personally I tend to be the type of mom that is helping all the players on the team with info. and support so I was just looking for one more piece of a puzzle.

All that information gathered by PG and Midwest, I thought what else could they do with that.......

Guess one of the duhhhhhhhhh moments in the middle of the night should have just stayed there. Guess I should just leave the wheels turning in my own head but this time I really thought I hit on something that the community would embrass and go, hey right on, this is a new idea.......

But I think I am getting it through your advice. Thanks for the information. I will keep reading and learning. It is a process for sure and one we are taking step by step and hopefully we will be here for 4 years learning, relearning, sharing and supporting.

I am always "cautious" about 60 times. Not sure all venues accurately measure the 60 yds.

I know PG uses an electronic eye but many other events I've been at used "hand-held stopwatches". The variance when measuring only 6.5-8.0 seconds can be huge due to the "human factor".

Human factor also at play with pop times, in addition to catchers coming out of the crouch earlier than they would in game conditions.....I'll bet I've seen claims of 30+ HS catchers (all grades) with sub 2.0 times. I doubt that all of these are accurate.

Best advice to your "newbies" would be to understand where they are now and work toward constant improvement through hard work and practice. The rest will take care of itself.

Good luck!

Oldbat-never,

You are asking the right questions, but maybe just not getting the answer exactly the way you asked the question.

Once they are freshmen, the age level distinctions start to blur. Some boys grow very quickly, others very slowly.

At some point in time (pretty quickly) those freshmen boys become senior men. The pro scouts and college coaches begin to start comparing players to those fairly common standards referred to earlier.

quote:

---

I as a mom, wanted to just look at each of these boys and say guys,,,,,,,,you are young, you have lots of time here is what the community of baseball players are doing for times (give them the averages) the tell them to work on your game, work in school take it step by step.

---

If they stay around baseball long, they will soon become familiar with the numbers.

You asked a great question. It is a question that you will still be asking four or five years from now.

What standard do I have to meet to play?

Lots to observe and learn and has been a lot of fun for me................

Thank you former observer, I think you got it........What I was trying to say/look for/wonder about.

My son and I have many years to go, lots of educating to do and hopefully many wonderful memories along the way.