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Racist Coaches

Florida Baseball GuyFlorida Baseball Guy500+ posts
I believe that healthy non-attacking debate is good and I disagree with the closing of the previous post on the Oklahoma baseball situation.

I do not believe it is OK to have racist coaches or make racist statements at any level of any sport.

Several years ago during the Spring of 1995 I was a sports writer in New York City. I wrote a story about then-St. John's University coach Joe Russo being charged with racism during a school investigation.

Here are some of the things he was accused of doing:

1 - St. John's represented the USA at the Pan American Games that year because it was during the college season. The Red Storm volunteered to go play in the Games.

Russo took all his scholarship players, but one, and several non-scholarship players as well. The lone scholarship player not attending the event was the only African-American player on the team.

2 - He has used a racial slur when he and an African-American girl collided while they were both jogging on a cold wet day in New York City. He allegedly called her a n----r and other things.

3 - When asked if he thought his coach was a racist the player replied very quickly that he didn't think his coach was a racist...he knew he was a racist.

There is a lot more to the story, but you get the idea. To the credit of the staff at St. John's I was leaked information that helped get this story onto the front page of the paper. However, to their discredit the schoool administration did not force this coach to resign until after the fall season was over in 1995 - and that was due to pressure from the NAACP.

IMHO people like that do not need to be coaching at any level. I was brought up not to hate people because of their color and find the support for the Oklahoma coach by some posters very questionable and to be honest very scary. I am completely in Dad04s corner on this issue.

And for the people who believe this was an issolated instance - that is ridiculous. The coach made the comment to two different reporters of whom he does not even know very well. I'll bet he has made it to many others as well.

If the resignation was forced I commend the Oklahoma administration for acting properly and quickly. Think about it this way, if a college professor used the same word to describe a student he would be fired right away - no matter how much tenure he had.
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T Teacherman500+ posts
quote:
...Think about it this way, if a college professor used the same word to describe a student he would be fired right away - no matter how much tenure he had.


If this were true and justice was administered equally it would be difficult to argue with you. But, it is not true.

BTW, a tough topic, maybe the most difficult topic, discussed well, without incident, yet cvsting has to show his authority.

How tall are you?
Last edited by Teacherman
S SBK500+ posts
I am not condoning the coach’s choice of words but I think we all know what he was trying to say even if we aren’t supposed to talk about it. We can’t publicly admit that young back men in a much higher percentage are leading a life that is a drag on society. How can we fix the problem if we can’t admit there is one? Not being able to talk about it doesn't change the fact that way too many young black men are being raised without a father. Too many are unemployed because they chose not to become educated. Too many choose to do drugs. Too many choose to make babies out of wedlock. Too many become divorced and too many choose to live a life of crime in greater proportion to their numbers.

I don’t see the problem as being as black and white as Jesse Jackson and others seem to want to make it. I see it being more of an issue of good people not wanting to live next to bad people. Decent people of all colors would prefer to not live next to unemployed, uneducated gang banging, woman demeaning, drug infested predators. (You know the kind of people and lifestyle gangsta rap glorifies)

Right now there are a substantial percentage of young black males who neither decent white people nor decent black people would want for neighbors. There’s also plenty of “White Trash” that neither decent black people nor decent white people want to live next to either.

It’s all about choices and not excuses. Young people of all color need to choose to stay in school, choose not to do drugs, choose not to steal from others or to cause them harm. This country needs more leaders like Condi Rice’s, Colin Powell’s and Clarence Thomas’. And leaders like these need to come in all colors.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
The debate is a good one and important to our entire society. cvsting was way out of line is closing the topic.

As for me, I don't see as how the OU administration had a choice. Cochell is not the youngest guy and probably grew up in an area where his words were accepted. They cannot be any longer. I do hope he gets another chance somewhere and soon. I cannot imagine he has not learned his lesson, but at what price?
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
How about another spin

The remarks were supposedly made off camera and in normal discussion between coach and the ESPN reporters--I am not condoning the remarks but what gives ESPN the right to air the remarks when they were not part of an interview etc---ESPN of late has truly become "spicy" in their reporting--this is sort of a tattle tale thing--

Does this mean that you and I can have our conversation aired on ESPN if their peoiple overhear it.

Now I know why some players wont talk to the press
Last edited by TRhit
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
TR:

That's exactly what it means, especially if you are the coach and you are speaking directly to the media and you understand from the start that you are representing your entire school, not just yourself.

But do the math yourself. Cochell is 65. IF he grew up in the south, that would have been in the 40s and 50s. The south was an extremely racist place when I grew up there in the 60s. In the 40s and 50s, it was nearly the entire nation. I'm not surprised at what he said and I don't doubt he meant it, which means he had absolutely no business coaching at a state university supported by dollars paid by taxpayers of every race. I guarantee it wasn't the first time he made such remarks, either.
S SBK500+ posts
I have a feeling there is more to the story than the coach is a 65 year old racist but we probably won’t hear it. As I mentioned previously it is that taboo subject that people with either more brains or less balls than some of us will even touch. This is perhaps evidenced no better than when a moderator quickly shut down the previous related thread.

Why has the coach been silent? Has OU paid him off to simply go away?

I would like to hear from the coach. If after hearing him we learn he is indeed a racist, then off with his head.

I would hope that he would regret his choice of words but I’d like to hear if he has something that might be worthwhile to move this important subject forward.
Last edited by SBK
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
I have little respect for media writers to begin with as they will turn over every rock or pebble for a story but if this was just conversation between individuals what gives ESPN to run with it

That is what bothers me


"Shoot the messenger" rationalizations. If I don't like programming I change the channel.

The bottom line is that no one can coach at a public institution with that vocabulary. If a private school wants to hire him that is fine.

I know a high school coach who thinks its wonderful to single out black players because of their skin color. He believes blacks don't make good pitchers because the ball shows up better coming out of their hand. Gods truth.

That cretin lost his job too.
Last edited by Dad04
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Will:

It is not so much a commentary on this particular coach or individual, but on the culture of the south. I lived it and (based on what the man said at least twice) it is pretty clear where he is coming from and the culture in which he was raised. I have heard it many, many times and more often than not in the ugliest and most derogatory of terms. And, the fact is, Cochell's inferences are as derogatory and bigoted as it gets.

As for ESPN, it is the media. That is what they do. I understand that most folks who do not deal with the media every day would have the point of view that is being expressed here. But Cochell is a professional at this and very acclimated to dealing with the press. Not only should he have known, he did know and I bet he would tell you that himself.
O OldVaman500+ posts
I can't speak for ESPN or the broascast media. I can tell you the rules under which I play when I write.

If I'm there in a professional capacity, everything said is on the record unless we mutually agree beforehand that it is not. If I hear it, see it or learn it, it's up to me and my superiors whether or not to write it. If is has news value, meaning we think folks need to or will want to read about it, we're writing it.

If I'm there in a personal capacity, as I am when I watch my children, everything is off the record, regardless of what I hear, see or learn. And I will not allow myself to be a source for any story in this way. In fact, this year I asked that a booster club meeting I attended go to executive session just so I could ask a question that came from a media mind, but a parent's heart. I did it so the answer was off the record not only for me, but everyone else.

I'm not saying this to do advocate any chest-beating morality. And I know some folks will disagree with my rules. But I write this to give folks a sense of what is at play in this discussion about my profession.

If you come away with the belief that a journalist's job often stinks, you're right.
Last edited by OldVaman
Moc1Moc1500+ posts
First of all the coach was stupid for making the statement(s) and is an embarrassment to Oklahoma just as Senator KKK Robert Byrd is an embarrassment to the Democratic Party for also using the same word. No outcry about Byrd and he still sits as a US Senator representing a lot of African Americans from West Virginia. But Jemaz and SBK have brought
up a different angle about this incident.

Jemaz says that ESPN is the media and anything they hear of note should be reported.

Really? How about something their wife tells them in private? How about their golfing buddies after a few rounds on the 19th hole? How about the inlaws at Thanksgiving? How about a coach having a casual conversation before the cameras are rolling?

There is a line and that line should be "This is for the record" or "The interview is now
beginning". Oklahoma's coach was wrong and stupid for the remarks he made and has suffered
the consequences for his actions but I have been in Major League locker rooms and have heard much worse back and forth between white and black ballplayers that never made the news because writers, coaches, and players knew that nothing was meant to demean each other. It was all in good fun and everyone took it how it was meant. Writers now wonder
why players clam up when they approach-right. Is there any question?

Again, Oklahoma had no choice in the matter,IMO, but why is Byrd still a Senator?????
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Moc:

I agree on Robert Byrd, but that is an issue for the voters of West Virginia. Are you surprised that he remains a senator?

As for the press, I am sorry to tell you, but that simply is not how it works -- anywhere -- and I was a reporter for a decade and have worked regularly with the press in Congress and in the corporate world.

It may not be what I want it to be or what you want it to be, but, as OldVaMan said, it is what it is and it is not going to change any time soon.

And, as I said above, Cochell knows this. He let his guard down when he should not have and in a way that maybe was predictable (maybe not) but was certainly stupid. He is paying the price to the hilt. I hope at 65, for his sake, that he has qualified for retirement benefits.
CallawayCallaway500+ posts
I'm with Dad04 on this. The whole thing sickens me. I am a relocated yankee living in the south and I hear comments made like this from "well-meaning" people frequently. To suggest that what he said was in some way a compliment shows how deep rooted the bias is.

The comments were, without a doubt, the dumbest remarks conceivable for a coach in his position. To blame ESPN for reporting the story should be the least of our worries. The comments should never have been made. Period.

Thank goodness they finally removed the Confederate flag from our state house. Good grief!!
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