Guy
Maybe you can watch a game and attend a class. Say hello to the Head Coach.
Bob Williams
@RJM posted:Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've never heard a college coach say a kid has a good eye at the plate or good plate discipline.
My son started playing 17u the summer after soph year. The coaching staff repeatedly told him, “You have a great eye. Now start swinging the bat aggressively. You get to the next level by driving the ball hard.”
Can’t Walk your way into playing time at the College level, that is for sure.
But ability to hit is a prerequisite. Most college coaches hate strikeouts, especially with men on base. So a “good eye at the plate” speaks to potential plate discipline at the next level, even though you are 100% correct that it won’t help in recruiting
Yes, I know I am delving into somewhat random semantics and splitting hairs
@NotABaseballGuy posted:Would you mind sharing approximately how many schools your 2021 reached out to by email? Another thing I've been wondering about is how widespread the outreach should be in advance of the showcases that he is attending. Any recommendations for how many schools is too many or too few? Many thanks...
I don’t remember. Dozens most definitely
We found that when one school in a particular conference had interest, most of the rest in that conference did, as well
A red flag was when only one school in a conference had interest, and the rest only sent back camp invites and automated replies. That told us that our son had a high probability of merely being a dorm filler guy
You need to know where you stand. At my son’s D3 school, only 17 position players get Batting Practice in practices, and only 14 get BP before games. You need to be one of those guys (fortunately my son has been, both Freshman and Sophomore years). The rest literally never get a single BP pitch to swing at.
Its important to understand there is a distinct hierarchy when it comes to D3. Some conferences are way better than others. I have no doubt that if my son had overreached to a school in a higher level conference than where he ended up, it would have been an even tougher road for him to even be on the travel squad, let alone be one of the guys who gets BP at practice. (My son as a Soph hasn’t started a game yet, but had appeared in over half the games so far this season)
Your son is a Catcher, you need to do as much research as you can to figure out if a particular school will use him as a bullpen catcher, or will he be able to be one of the Top 3 catchers who actually get playing time. Even being in the Top 4 as a Freshman is a good sign, especially if one or two of the top guys will have graduated by the time your son is a Soph
@3and2Fastball posted:Your son is a Catcher, you need to do as much research as you can to figure out if a particular school will use him as a bullpen catcher, or will he be able to be one of the Top 3 catchers who actually get playing time. Even being in the Top 4 as a Freshman is a good sign, especially if one or two of the top guys will have graduated by the time your son is a Soph
Is that a question to ask the coach during recruiting? Or is there a better way to try and figure that out?
@NotABaseballGuy posted:Is that a question to ask the coach during recruiting? Or is there a better way to try and figure that out?
It’s a question your son should ask “coach, do you see me as a bullpen catcher or filler depth, or do you think I’ll have a real shot to be in the mix for playing time?”
Also you should do a ton of research looking at rosters. See how many Catchers are on the roster and when they’ll graduate. Also look at at how many JUCO players are on the roster. After that take a close look at the statistics, see how many players are actually getting playing time.
In my sons conference the season is halfway over, several schools in the conference have 15 or 16 players with 20 at bats or more so far this year, some have only 8 players with 20 at bats or more.
Obviosly players are going to have primary positions. But, hit and you play somewhere.
I followed Vanderbilt closely when two friends/former teammates sons played there. A school like Vanderbilt is going to recruit some of the nest catchers in the country.
When my friend’s son was a freshman the right fielder was moved to catcher. He was eventually drafted as a catcher. One catcher played first, another played left field and another DH’ed. when the third baseman got injured another catcher played third.
It’s unusual a team would recruit four top catchers. But all four could pound the ball. It’s what playing in college is all about. It applies at every level.
Add: One of my friends sons was one of the catchers. He was all world in high school and on his 17u team. He was a top fifty prospect. He thought he would start freshman year. He was the fourth catcher who played third when the third baseman got injured. He started at various positions soph year. He split catching and DH the next two years. He was drafted.
Why isn't he likely to end up at a NWC school?
@MidAtlanticDad posted:Why isn't he likely to end up at a NWC school?
I would love to be wrong about that statement because I'd get to see more of his games. But, in our initial list-building conversations, most of the schools that he's expressed interest in are east of the Mississippi. It's early though. Who knows...
Available majors, big piece of the search puzzle of course. Son made a mid-course correction on major choice which affected the ultimate destination.
Headfirst showcase is where he was seen first.
On camps, I thought the Stanford camp provided the most bang for the buck.
He's in the NWC.
Sounds like a talk with your travel coaches might be beneficial; even if they don't know any of the eastern schools, they may have a sense about PNW D3 baseball and where your son is likely to fit.
A big question to think about is, what does your son want out of his college baseball experience? Will he mind if he doesn't play much? Has he been a varsity starter, and if so, for how long? Would he mind being a bullpen catcher? Some might find that fun. D3 baseball is all over the map, with teams of 30 players to teams of 50+.
Is baseball going to drive the college search? Is it just a useful way to differentiate between colleges that otherwise seem all the same? Are you looking for it to help him get admitted? All are valid, but each path is different.
@anotherparent posted:Sounds like a talk with your travel coaches might be beneficial; even if they don't know any of the eastern schools, they may have a sense about PNW D3 baseball and where your son is likely to fit.
A big question to think about is, what does your son want out of his college baseball experience? Will he mind if he doesn't play much? Has he been a varsity starter, and if so, for how long? Would he mind being a bullpen catcher? Some might find that fun. D3 baseball is all over the map, with teams of 30 players to teams of 50+.
Is baseball going to drive the college search? Is it just a useful way to differentiate between colleges that otherwise seem all the same? Are you looking for it to help him get admitted? All are valid, but each path is different.
@NotABaseballGuy, this is exactly where I was headed. Use the local teams as comparables for other D3 programs. Ask the local experts if your son could get playing time at Whitworth right now. (Most kids don't improve dramatically from 17 to 19.) If so, he's in great shape for most D3 programs. If not, no worries, there are lots of northeast HA D3 schools that don't play at the level of NWC. Showball will probably be a great help in figuring that out, too. Have fun.
You might be able to find a regional showcase that might not be as big as SB but still has a lot of HA schools. PTW usually has a few.
Check your PM.
Thought about another thing re the “good eye at the plate” thing:
You learn pretty quickly that D3 umpires are extremely inconsistent. Can’t leave an at bat in their hands if the pitch is anywhere close. I’ve seen players rung up on pitches literally a foot off the plate
Hot take for a baseball blog - my new thinking for HA D3 posters is to apply to the best schools, D1, D2, or D3, with your son's major of preference, and then if the coach doesn't offer you a spot and you end up at D3, try to walk on or play club. If your son doesn't know what major he wants, go to a larger high academic school (likely D1) with many different majors, as mentioned by @dverespey above, and play club, join a frat, and live the college experience. Don't force a fit for baseball; force the fit for academics and career, and then backfill the baseball side. Most important thing is that you have a happy son who ends up with many career choices.
^^This. My son's not a HA, but we're prioritizing schools for academic fit, so if the school is a fit that might mean only trying to walk on or play club.
Have a son in HA D3 and the thing I’d advise most is to be very wide eyed about how challenging the process is and how high the level of student-athletes are. Post Covid especially as so much talent trickled down. In certain ways, HA D3 is one of the most difficult spots to land on the whole recruiting continuum. Because at D3 level, even unlike Ivies, the HC often can only go so far to push administration given there’s no scholarships in play.
Given that. I’d suggest doing everything he can to maximize his athletic performance and testing before the Summer. In normal land the SAT your son scored is amazing. In HA D3 recruiting, it may require a bit more at *some* schools. In HS plate discipline is important. At a camp where coaches seen 800 kids a day, it’s impossible to judge. Numbers natter. Can the kid barrel a ball consistently and if so, what’s his Exit Velo. To start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90’s for a C. That pop time? Work with a specialty coach for the next 3-4 months to bring that down. His 40 that some say don’t matter? It does. Bring it down. Coaches prefer their C’s to be all around athletes. Bottom line, and this is not meant to be discouraging, rather an inspiration, is to REALLY ready himself for the most competitive process of his young life. He has a few months to put himself in a position where he can stand out. Assume the competition from a national talent pool will be deep and intense. Go in prepared and as fully maximized as he can be. Don’t be intimidated but also don’t underestimate the significance of the challenge.
For you as a parent, it’s a roller coaster that gets real intense from late summer through the Fall. Be prepared for setbacks and disappointments to manage, but also a North Star of victory knowing he’ll ultimately get there and land in a good spot. Lean on the group throughout this process there is a LOT of collective knowledge here.
@Wechson posted:In HS plate discipline is important. At a camp where coaches seen 800 kids a day, it’s impossible to judge. Numbers natter. Can the kid barrel a ball consistently and if so, what’s his Exit Velo. To start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90’s for a C.
More questions below related to exit velo:
Let me provide a little more info on this and get your thoughts on how exit velo is defined in this conversation. The data I have for him comes from last summer's Stanford camp cage sessions courtesy of Rapsodo. I'm sure many of you know how they run those cage sessions. I think he had five opportunities to hit BP while getting measured by Rapsodo. His fastest exit velo swing during those sessions was 99 mph. The second and third fastest were at 87 mph. The meat of the bell curve were between 75 mph and 85 mph. Keep in mind that this was summer after sophomore year. I think he's stronger now.
In any case, when you all talk about exit velo, I don't really know how you define that. Are you using the peak number (99 here) even if it seems like an outlier? Or are we not even talking about BP exit velo at all? For example, at Headfirst last summer, no one, to my knowledge, was measuring BP or live game exit velo. It was all measured from a T. Is T exit velo the relevant stat? I assume that T exit velo and BP exit velo would be different. If so, are we just taking the peak number no matter who much of an outlier it would seem to be?
The next time he's in a Rapsodo situation, should he not care about whiffing on a few pitches and just swing for the fences? He rarely whiffs on a live game pitch. Should he risk whiffing more to try and bring his exit velo up?
We didn't go to Showball last summer. How is exit velo measured at Showball? Is it from a T or is it BP or both?
Should we be going to a local PBR event to get an updated exit velo measurement? Or can we just wait until this summer's Showball and HF?
Finally, how many of you would agree with @Wechson that "to start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90's for a C"?
@Wechson posted:In certain ways, HA D3 is one of the most difficult spots to land on the whole recruiting continuum. Because at D3 level, even unlike Ivies, the HC often can only go so far to push administration given there’s no scholarships in play.
In normal land the SAT your son scored is amazing. In HA D3 recruiting, it may require a bit more at *some* schools.
Were any of you with post-COVID college applicants told by a coach at an HA that the test score didn't matter? The reason I'm asking is because my daughter swims at an HA D3. She attended the same school as my son (an independent college prep school) and had about the same GPA but with a lower test score. When she contacted coaches, she never even mentioned her test score and the coaches didn't ask for it. She applied test optional RD and was admitted to a handful of HA schools. Unfortunately, she only had a roster spot at two of them and decided (without regret) to decline the offer at her favorite school for a school where she could swim. Did any of you have a similar test optional experience with your post-COVID baseball applicants?
@NotABaseballGuy posted:More questions below related to exit velo:
Let me provide a little more info on this and get your thoughts on how exit velo is defined in this conversation. The data I have for him comes from last summer's Stanford camp cage sessions courtesy of Rapsodo. I'm sure many of you know how they run those cage sessions. I think he had five opportunities to hit BP while getting measured by Rapsodo. His fastest exit velo swing during those sessions was 99 mph. The second and third fastest were at 87 mph. The meat of the bell curve were between 75 mph and 85 mph. Keep in mind that this was summer after sophomore year. I think he's stronger now.
In any case, when you all talk about exit velo, I don't really know how you define that. Are you using the peak number (99 here) even if it seems like an outlier? Or are we not even talking about BP exit velo at all? For example, at Headfirst last summer, no one, to my knowledge, was measuring BP or live game exit velo. It was all measured from a T. Is T exit velo the relevant stat? I assume that T exit velo and BP exit velo would be different. If so, are we just taking the peak number no matter who much of an outlier it would seem to be?
The next time he's in a Rapsodo situation, should he not care about whiffing on a few pitches and just swing for the fences? He rarely whiffs on a live game pitch. Should he risk whiffing more to try and bring his exit velo up?
We didn't go to Showball last summer. How is exit velo measured at Showball? Is it from a T or is it BP or both?
Should we be going to a local PBR event to get an updated exit velo measurement? Or can we just wait until this summer's Showball and HF?
Finally, how many of you would agree with @Wechson that "to start at competitive D3 it likely should be mid 90's for a C"?
IMO, PBR has the best exit velo measurement since they do it on the field. HF exit velo is a joke. I watched kids take the most ridiculous swings. At one point they had an attendee holding the gun. Not sure how SB does it. My son felt he had a terrible BP round at SB but a few coaches (1 D1, 1 D2, and the rest D3) commented on his swing and approach and not to worry about the results in that setting. Also, hitting balls hard during the games is probably the most important. Hitting a ball hard against a good pitcher is even better.
One thing I'll mention on SB and HF, it is very hard to stand out as a position player/hitter. As a catcher, he needs to be -2.0 or have a cannon to 2B that impresses the coaches.
Don't want to beat a dead horse, but at the two SB events my son did last summer, every single D3 coach asked what his SAT score was. The Patriot League coaches asked about it in later conversations, but they still asked. Some of these HA D3 schools are among the most competitive schools to get into. Admissions isn't going to give a coach a slot for a kid well below their average admitted students or one who they feel will not be able to handle the academic rigor of the school.