Roster size

quote:

Originally posted by Tantrough:
In today's Atlanta Journal Constitution, there was an article on the Saturday 1/12/2008 vote of the override proposal of 2 of the new baseball rules. (The overrides did not pass.)

From the article:
As a result, baseball players who get any scholarship aid must now receive at least a quarter of a full scholarship (with the equivalent of 11.7 full scholarships divided among a maximum of 27 players), and the maximum squad size will be capped at 35.

[Georgia Tech baseball coach Danny] Hall has argued those rules diminish opportunities for athletes. [University of Georgia President Dr. Michael] Adams said they spare athletes from being subjected to "a quasi-tryout process."

Link to full AJC article

I was just informed this am that the minimum 25% HAS to be all baseball money.

quote:

[Georgia Tech baseball coach Danny] Hall has argued those rules diminish opportunities for athletes. [University of Georgia President Dr. Michael] Adams said they spare athletes from being subjected to "a quasi-tryout process."

Those comments are interesting. Coach can't spread the money around like before and the administrator calling tryouts a quasi tryout. very revealing

TPM,
What's the source?

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
TPM,
What's the source?

CPLZ, now you DO have a pm.

I feel so...so, privileged!


That is a huge departure from what had been originally negoitiated. D1 coaches all over America must be choking on their donuts when they read that email.

Can you imagine how much scholarship money has been promised, that they must now renig on because of a change in allotment of funds? WHOA NELLIE!

If true, this changes the whole recruiting landscape.

15.5.4.1

thats the initial section chapter in the bylaws

if the mixed monies changed to baseball only, the math gets easier..........I sense parity may be forthcoming.

These players become even more highly coveted:

15.5.3.2.1 Exceptions.
15.5.3.2.1.1 Academic Honor Awards. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s
normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a corecourse grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200.

******
I didn't read anything about the request for blending 25% to the "counters" eliminated. If it all has to be baseball money, it doesn't change the fact that a kid who fits the academic exception criteria will still get academic non-countable grants. It may only change as to whether the coach wants to sweeten the pot with an additional 25% and designate the player as a counter.

So if a coach wants to max his 08-09 counters at 30, then if fully-funded, he has 4.2 full grants to use for his perceived blue-chippers.................

This is it folks.
Next year 25% minimum 35 players, 30 scholarship players ( 5 players will be walk ons receiving academic $$).
Following year 35 players 27 scholarships players (the extra 8 will be walk ons receiving only academic money).

Same as voted on but the 25% has to be scholarship $$, not a combo.

The $24,000 question will be: will these coveted, high-academic recruits be willing to put aside their pride and accept only academic and no athletic money? After all, many here on this site claim, "If they're not offering you athletic money, they don't value you as much."

If a D1 coach now has a perimeter on how he must award money, does it really matter how it is awarded? IMO, as a recruit, I would take a 75% academic scholarship over a 25% bb scholarship that's for sure.
However, I want to have confidance that the coach that I am working with is doing his best to be up front and honest, I am expecting that when I get to campus in the fall, there are less than 35 I have to compete with, NOT 45-50. I think that this is going to be a big factor in the process. After all, wasn't this the intent for limiting roster size and getting rid of those "quasi tryouts"?

Rather than assume and read media interpretation visit this NCAA site

www.ncaa.org/wps/portal

I suggest you read the NCAA page(s) carefully

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I suggest you read the NCAA page(s) carefully

I DID

I guess the coaches got a secret email. If the blend was revoked, you would think they would suspend the x-fer portion to accomodate the kids, unless the coaches knew all along.

I recall asking one way back in summer, and he said 25% baseball grant, but never did it occur to me he may already have known possibly.

Georgia has revised their roster for the 2008 season.

Georgia's updated roster for 2008 season

j2h6,
I see 46 what's the revision?

TPM... 46 is the last Jersey Number there are 35 Players on the roster!

quote:

Originally posted by Tantrough:
So in this example, we assume the Georgia coach will be forced to cut at least a few players to get to the 35 roster limit - possibly cutting some of the 20 freshmen who just signed NLI's. Does the transfer rule still apply to a player that is cut from the squad?

FYI,,, this year any player that left in the Fall prior (I believe prior to 12/31 or possibly up to when classes started for Jan semester are able to transfer and play this Spring...next year that will not be the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawgfan:
TPM... 46 is the last Jersey Number there are 35 Players on the roster!

Thanks..... I can't count.

What was I thinking!?!

In regards to the UGA questions a couple of points.

-UGA's signing class is big next year
-Some of those 20 recruits are walk-ons with invites for the Fall no gtd's no promises except being able to put a Dawgs Uniform on for the Fall. GA has the hope scholarship for academics, some of these kids, are going to go to UGA, baseball or not.

-For UGA 5 Sr's 10 Jrs'(with 6 Jr's realistic draft possibilities...including weekend rotation, plus at least 1 Jr with graduation potential).

-Of 35 on the roster probably 2 to 3 transfer out or as upperclassman with limited playing time switch gears and focus on studies.

-Watching them this Fall some of this years Freshman will be able to play and some will not make the cut in the SEC.

-From the outside looking in it can be very hard to tell what is going on in real life based on school websites and player intentions (i.e. a Jr outfielder from last years team saw his limitations and ask Coaching Staff he he could start his unofficial coaching career. Loves the game but knew it was time to stay with the game a different way

In regards to the NCAA roster size, scholarship minimums as well as having to RS if you transfer IMO it is in no way helpful to the student-athlete. This year and next year a lot of kids are going to get hurt as schools adjust.

In general moving forward.
IF I'm a coach and I have a utility player who is going to be a Jr or Sr with minimal AB's if any do I tie up a 25% scholly on him or a Freshman with his future in front of him. PLUS if they are going into their Senior year I'm going to assume that most kids are not going to transfer (when they've been role players) after investing 3 or 4 years at a school, so the schools APR will not be negatively affected by cutting that player vs. a Freshman which most likely would transfer and would hurt the teams APR

quote:

Dawgfan wrote: Some of those 20 recruits are walk-ons

Dawgfan, not to nitpick, but there are four seperate press releases on the UGA web site, and each one states that those players were all signed to NLI's, and thus the university is required to give them athletic money. Is it possible that those press releases are incorrect and some of those players "signed" some other kind of agreement?

Link to UGA Baseball Site

quote:

Is it possible that those press releases are incorrect and some of those players "signed" some other kind of agreement

If that's the case, UGA is breaking NCAA rules.

LSU has 38 players listed on its roster: 13 Freshmen, 7 Soph's, 14 Jr's, and only 4 Sr's. So that means two player's or on the hot seat.

Regarding LSU again, of the 12 Freshman on last years roster, only 7 remain and 5 are gone. There were 11 Soph's last year and 14 Jr's this year (what? transfers), There were 10 jr's last year and only 4 Sr.'s this year (combination draft and cuts in anticipation of 35 roster and scholly limints).

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:

quote:

Is it possible that those press releases are incorrect and some of those players "signed" some other kind of agreement

If that's the case, UGA is breaking NCAA rules.

Why are they breaking rules? According to the rules, they could have signed 30 NLI's. Players currently on scholarship are not guaranteed their scholarship next year.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:

quote:

Is it possible that those press releases are incorrect and some of those players "signed" some other kind of agreement

If that's the case, UGA is breaking NCAA rules.

Why are they breaking rules? According to the rules, they could have signed 30 NLI's. Players currently on scholarship are not guaranteed their scholarship next year.

NLI's signed in November of 2007 constitute baseball money, 25%, and each recipient is a counter the day they enter class in August of 2008, and remain a counter for the 2008-09 Championship Season whether they play or not.

15.3.4.3 Reduction or Cancellation Not Permitted. Institutional financial aid based in any degree on

athletics ability may not be increased, decreased or canceled during the period of its award: (Adopted: 1/16/93;

Revised: 1/11/94)

(a) On the basis of a student-athlete’s athletics ability, performance or contribution to a team’s success;

(b) Because of an injury that prevents the recipient from participating in athletics; or

(c) For any other athletics reason.

15.3.4.3.1 Athletically Related Condition Prohibition. An institution may not set forth an athletically

related condition (e.g., financial aid contingent upon specified performance or playing a specific

position) that would permit the institution to reduce or cancel the student-athlete’s financial aid during the

period of the award if the conditions are not satisfied. (Adopted: 1/16/93; Revised: 1/11/94)

I read Infield08's comment about breaking NCAA rules as meaning that a school cannot announce a walkon as "signing an NLI". And his comment was in response to the idea that UGA issued incorrect press releases referring to walkons as having signed an NLI.

3FingeredGlove, your interpretation was correct. Sorry I didn't clarify that.

For UGA, from what I can tell, of 13 recruits I could account for from last year, only 7 are on the spring roster.

quote:

Originally posted by Tantrough:

quote:

Dawgfan wrote: Some of those 20 recruits are walk-ons

Dawgfan, not to nitpick, Is it possible that those press releases are incorrect and some of those players "signed" some other kind of agreement?

Tantrough...I stand corrected. Obviously they did not sign some other kind of agreement.

It is becoming more apparent to me that with the new rules that signing early may not be the way to go. That the spring signing period would tend to clarify a better view of a players fit with a particular program. After all most players want to play and with the new transfer rules it would benefit the student athlete to step back and really research the schools they are considering.

Our son has been contacted by several D1 and D2 programs that are looking at their own roster and evaluating what jr players may be drafted and are in a holding pattern. I can actually see some pretty good opportunities opening up after the MLB draft due to roster limitation for D1 teams.

Actually signing early will guarantee a player a scholly, most of the spring signings will be for recruited walk-ons. With many schools over signing in the early period you will not see that many signings in the spring.

It is not the case. There is still lots of scholly available in the spring and even summer.
When you sign an NLI you know what scholly money you are getting before you sign.
Tho2e who don't sign early can get large schollys and most coaches do not commit all their money on eary signs.

Panther
Well that is assuming that the players signed don't opt to draft and we know at least 200 will. Should be real interesting this spring and summer the recruiting landscape has definitely changed.

Panther

I have to respectfully disagree with you

Note that my assumption is based on D1 colleges in Florida, many have signed more than their need for next year and have calculated the draft loss. With the new rule of 30 schollys and over signing in November I just don't see how you are going to have more scholarship players signing in April, at least in the D1 category. D2, D3, and NAIA is a different story, they have always done the majority of their signings in the spring.

Reading all of this is incredible. Post after post I am reading varying opinions and corrections. Those who are commenting on this topic are very intelligent people (not hard to tell that). You are all very smart individuals for sure (unlike myself). SO, what that tells me is that a coaching staff (or two) is/are going to struggle to get this right...especially during the next 2-3 years. I would assume that the NCAA has a provision for those who accidentally get some of this wrong and over-commit or make grave errors. At least I hope so. The number of teams that screw up will be more than one or two.......
oh, and someone please explain "quasi tryouts"? I've seen that referenced many times.

quote:

by shtr: SO, what that tells me is that a coaching staff (or two) is/are going to struggle to get this right...especially during the next 2-3 years. I would assume that the NCAA has a provision for those who accidentally get some of this wrong and over-commit or make grave errors.

I don't think so

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by shtr: SO, what that tells me is that a coaching staff (or two) is/are going to struggle to get this right...especially during the next 2-3 years. I would assume that the NCAA has a provision for those who accidentally get some of this wrong and over-commit or make grave errors.

I don't think so

I don't either.

quote:

There is still lots of scholly available in the spring and even summer

True, but usually not for D1 programs. I have looked at the websites of many D1 programs this fall and most are listing 7-10 NLI signees. With the new NCAA limits of 30/27 "counters," there won't be much wiggle room for additional athletic schollies in the spring.

I disagree.....there will be more available schollies than people think....remember, almost every D1 school will be losing a couple if not several players to the MLB Draft, this will open many slots for several of those talented baseball players still out there looking for a new home. I'd even stretch it and say there could be more than just a handful of schollies available. Remember, most of these players that will go in the draft were offered significant schollie dollars that will then be opened up once they sign and go pro. Further, in some cases I'm sure schools have accounted for this and signed extra players, fully expecting for this to happen but in other cases I'm sure there are plenty who have not.

What may be the most interesting aspect with future rosters is the handling of the non-counter spots. It can be said those spots will be a safe harbor for development, but one must account for the APR also.

Seniors and graduation. Undrafted Juniors that become those Seniors.

Back in November, BA addressed the GA and ASU rosters.

"The difference now is you've got to be at the scholarship limit at the beginning of school—there's no gray area," said one recruiting coordinator at a major public school. "The people that are going to overload in the summer will have to unload.(**not before the first game as some thought**)

Aggressive Approach

Georgia and Arizona State brought in two of the larger classes in the country, netting 21 and 24 recruits, respectively. But both schools are loaded with seniors and talented juniors who they expect to lose to the draft in June, meaning both will have plenty of holes to fill.

Of course, neither school expects all of its signees to bypass the draft in favor of college, because both signed a number of high-profile recruits.

"The odds of us keeping all these guys are very slim. If we get half of them, I think we'd be very happy. We've got a lot of draft-eligible juniors that are hoping to have big seasons and sign, and this (freshman) class that we brought (in August) in is a little smaller; that allowed this class to be a little bigger."


http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/news/265290.html

The Juniors who go undrafted are the roster wildcards, NO ??