SHOES OFF
"SHOES OFF"
Shoot! Back to 6'2" or even less if they measure later in the day.
Shoot! Back to 6'2" or even less if they measure later in the day.
Shoes Off....O.K....that makes sense. I was going to really wonder about things if the shoes were on. That must have been a smelly situation with all those shoes off 
As far as the person who mentioned Boog Powell....WOW, what a blast from the past. I remember the Orioles and Reds playing in the world series and Boog was the man. Had those cut-off sleeves to show his manliness. Steinbrenner would have a cow with someone like that on his team. I believe that was only Pete Rose's 2nd season (1970). But that brings back old names like Brooks Robinson, Jim Palmer, umm... May (forgot his first name), and the little short guy for the reds, umm, Bernie Carbo...NOW HE WAS NOT TALL AT ALL. O.K. now I'm back on subject!!
As far as the person who mentioned Boog Powell....WOW, what a blast from the past. I remember the Orioles and Reds playing in the world series and Boog was the man. Had those cut-off sleeves to show his manliness. Steinbrenner would have a cow with someone like that on his team. I believe that was only Pete Rose's 2nd season (1970). But that brings back old names like Brooks Robinson, Jim Palmer, umm... May (forgot his first name), and the little short guy for the reds, umm, Bernie Carbo...NOW HE WAS NOT TALL AT ALL. O.K. now I'm back on subject!!
quote:Originally posted by switchitter:
Shoes Off....O.K....that makes sense. I was going to really wonder about things if the shoes were on. That must have been a smelly situation with all those shoes off
As far as the person who mentioned Boog Powell....WOW, what a blast from the past. I remember the Orioles and Reds playing in the world series and Boog was the man. Had those cut-off sleeves to show his manliness. Steinbrenner would have a cow with someone like that on his team. I believe that was only Pete Rose's 2nd season (1970). But that brings back old names like Brooks Robinson, Jim Palmer, umm... May (forgot his first name), and the little short guy for the reds, umm, Bernie Carbo...NOW HE WAS NOT TALL AT ALL. O.K. now I'm back on subject!!
Lee May?
That's a shame that MLB allows teams to sign 16-year-olds. At least get him a high school education before playing him, even if he is 6'6" and can hit a ton. Could you imagine taking a U.S. high school sophomore out of school and signing him to a pro contract? Why do we allow it with foreigners?quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/internat...irs/2008/265719.html
Not trying to be a wise ***, but just how much is a high school education worth in the Dominican? It surely can't be worth the $2 million he signed for.
That does bring up a good thought though. Why not make sure these young Latin players do get a good education. Then I think everyone would feel a bit better about teams signing them.
I understand that some think MLB clubs are taking advantage of these young players, but in this case, is it taking advantage of someone when you pay them $2 million to go play baseball?
BTW, Baseball used to sign players as young as 16. Bob Feller was actually pitching in the Big Leagues at age 16. Joe Nuxhall at age 15. Of course, the rules have changed since then. Otherwise kids like Justin Upton and Delmon Young might have signed as 15 year olds.
That does bring up a good thought though. Why not make sure these young Latin players do get a good education. Then I think everyone would feel a bit better about teams signing them.
I understand that some think MLB clubs are taking advantage of these young players, but in this case, is it taking advantage of someone when you pay them $2 million to go play baseball?
BTW, Baseball used to sign players as young as 16. Bob Feller was actually pitching in the Big Leagues at age 16. Joe Nuxhall at age 15. Of course, the rules have changed since then. Otherwise kids like Justin Upton and Delmon Young might have signed as 15 year olds.
That's exactly what I implied.quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Why not make sure these young Latin players do get a good education.
Even if they stayed in the Dominican Replublic, do you think it would be an incentive to the kids if they were required to stay in school before getting the $2 million?
To be honest I don't know how good the educational system is in the DR. I do know the income level is extremely low. Guess, I was thinking more along the lines of them attending school over here, but I'm sure there would be many issues with that.
If the MLB teams brought 16 yr olds to the US would they be required to educate them ?
Is that why the don't go to complex ball till they are 18?
Is that why the don't go to complex ball till they are 18?
During fall instruction the Dominican players had to attend classes everyday, English. I think it's the same for their GLC complex rookie ball too.
I think they can't come here until they are 18 for work Visa reasons. Coming here and working above a certain amount of hours violatates child labor laws.
I think they can't come here until they are 18 for work Visa reasons. Coming here and working above a certain amount of hours violatates child labor laws.
That's good there is some protection for these kids, foreigners or not. I just don't understand how MLB can allow teams to sign 16-year-olds, regardless of their nationality. Is it so cutthroat that the teams have to scramble to sign 16-yr-old children? That's a real shame.quote:Originally posted by TPM:
During fall instruction the Dominican players had to attend classes everyday, English. I think it's the same for their GLC complex rookie ball too.
I think they can't come here until they are 18 for work Visa reasons. Coming here and working above a certain amount of hours violatates child labor laws.
quote:Originally posted by KnightTime:That's good there is some protection for these kids, foreigners or not. I just don't understand how MLB can allow teams to sign 16-year-olds, regardless of their nationality. Is it so cutthroat that the teams have to scramble to sign 16-yr-old children? That's a real shame.quote:Originally posted by TPM:
During fall instruction the Dominican players had to attend classes everyday, English. I think it's the same for their GLC complex rookie ball too.
I think they can't come here until they are 18 for work Visa reasons. Coming here and working above a certain amount of hours violatates child labor laws.
I look at it differently. This is very big business looking to put the best product on the field to sell tickets and make money. It's constantly searching for one player out of hundreds (or thousands) who will make it to MLB. If an organization feels that it's not here, they will go looking elsewhere. They also need talented players to develop and sell tickets and make money for their affiliates or the Milb franchises they own.
I see the entire thing differently.
Then again, its the Reds
Then again, its the Reds
I understand that they will go where the talent is, but 16-year-old kids? People are in disbelief when a 16-yr-old American kid commits early to a college. But, we can accept the same aged foreign kid signing a pro contract, without any commitment to educating the kid. Like PG said, at least make sure they get educated here in the U.S. before they are allowed to play. That would put them on an even playing field with American kids, and it would be the right thing to do, IMO.quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by KnightTime:That's good there is some protection for these kids, foreigners or not. I just don't understand how MLB can allow teams to sign 16-year-olds, regardless of their nationality. Is it so cutthroat that the teams have to scramble to sign 16-yr-old children? That's a real shame.quote:Originally posted by TPM:
During fall instruction the Dominican players had to attend classes everyday, English. I think it's the same for their GLC complex rookie ball too.
I think they can't come here until they are 18 for work Visa reasons. Coming here and working above a certain amount of hours violatates child labor laws.
I look at it differently. This is very big business looking to put the best product on the field to sell tickets and make money. It's constantly searching for one player out of hundreds (or thousands) who will make it to MLB. If an organization feels that it's not here, they will go looking elsewhere. They also need talented players to develop and sell tickets and make money for their affiliates or the Milb franchises they own.
I didn't say I agreed I said why they do it.
Why is it shocking that they would pay a 16 year old that type of money from the dominican? They have just improved the quality of the player and families life instantly for the rest of their lives and most likely could sustain a whole village. In two years they have to have that player ready to compete here in the US. That money makes them committed to that player. It also takes care of him for his life if he doesn't make it. Do you think they should make a latin player play the game everyday for nothing? Then you would all be crying exploitation. Giving them money makes MLB look better in latin america and to the world.
I would bet they'd pay a 16 year old that if they could here in the US. I'd bet there would be a lot of US parents who would be happy with that too.
My understanding is that some of these players are more talented at 16 than ours here in America at 20. They are totally committed to nothing but baseball, no two sport players there! If there is one of exceptional talent here, he may just decide to go off to college, get hurt, never to be seen again. If all else fails, he has his education.
My understanding also is that the pipeline has to be continually flowing for a team to be successful, if not here then they will look elsewhere.
Why is it shocking that they would pay a 16 year old that type of money from the dominican? They have just improved the quality of the player and families life instantly for the rest of their lives and most likely could sustain a whole village. In two years they have to have that player ready to compete here in the US. That money makes them committed to that player. It also takes care of him for his life if he doesn't make it. Do you think they should make a latin player play the game everyday for nothing? Then you would all be crying exploitation. Giving them money makes MLB look better in latin america and to the world.
I would bet they'd pay a 16 year old that if they could here in the US. I'd bet there would be a lot of US parents who would be happy with that too.
My understanding is that some of these players are more talented at 16 than ours here in America at 20. They are totally committed to nothing but baseball, no two sport players there! If there is one of exceptional talent here, he may just decide to go off to college, get hurt, never to be seen again. If all else fails, he has his education.
My understanding also is that the pipeline has to be continually flowing for a team to be successful, if not here then they will look elsewhere.
Are the players educated or are they only taught to speak english?
njbb,
I don't know, but my understanding is that the players in fall instruction had classes (english I was told) and went back to teh DR to play baseball everyday.
What would giving them an education do? If they don't make it, they return. What is the value of an education there?
I don't know, but my understanding is that the players in fall instruction had classes (english I was told) and went back to teh DR to play baseball everyday.
What would giving them an education do? If they don't make it, they return. What is the value of an education there?
That kind of money would improve the quality of players' and families' lives instantly for most American 16-yr-olds as well, but it isn't allowed here for obvious reasons. The NFL and NBA can't go overseas and sign 16-yr-olds, no matter how many villages they can sustain in foreign lands (although I'm sure they would if they could). Since MLB is an American entity operating under American laws, why not hold them to the same ethical standards when dealing with foreign minors?quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Why is it shocking that they would pay a 16 year old that type of money from the dominican? They have just improved the quality of the player and families life instantly for the rest of their lives and most likely could sustain a whole village. In two years they have to have that player ready to compete here in the US. That money makes them committed to that player. It also takes care of him for his life if he doesn't make it. Do you think they should make a latin player play the game everyday for nothing? Then you would all be crying exploitation. Giving them money makes MLB look better in latin america and to the world.
quote:Since MLB is an American entity operating under American laws, why not hold them to the same ethical standards when dealing with foreign minors?
American companies don't pay our minimum wage when they open factories in 3rd world countries or follow the same safety regulations. Why would the MLB be different.
I just read that there are several states in the US that don't have minimum wage! 
As long as our players, good players decide upon college first they will seek talent elsewhere. As long as our players play other sports in HS/college and don't devote 100% of their day to baseball, MLB will seek talent elsewhere. As long as our players refuse to play rookie complex ball, they will seek talent elsewhere. MLB does give your player options to get a college education, it does not give foreign born players that option. Many players here don't even use that option given to them.
Are they more talented than our american players, some yes, some no. Most have better work ethics. American born players given that much money won't work as hard, most will eventually quite the daily grind after years of not making it saying, there has to be more than this. They spend most of what they get in bonus on cars, possesions, the foreign born player will still eat rice and beans everyday even with a 2 million dollar bonus.
NBA and NFL have no training for players other than at college.
Are you suggesting that MLB should pay that type of bonus just because our kids big bonus' because they are americans?
This might be a shock to you, but there are many american players who have been offered that and went to college first.
Maybe for some here it's about ethics, but for most it's not, it's about the almighty $$$$ not being spent on their kids.
Are they more talented than our american players, some yes, some no. Most have better work ethics. American born players given that much money won't work as hard, most will eventually quite the daily grind after years of not making it saying, there has to be more than this. They spend most of what they get in bonus on cars, possesions, the foreign born player will still eat rice and beans everyday even with a 2 million dollar bonus.
NBA and NFL have no training for players other than at college.
Are you suggesting that MLB should pay that type of bonus just because our kids big bonus' because they are americans?
This might be a shock to you, but there are many american players who have been offered that and went to college first.
Maybe for some here it's about ethics, but for most it's not, it's about the almighty $$$$ not being spent on their kids.
njbb, that's our government who has ruined our way of life, not MLB. It's not their (MLB)responsibility to make life better.
TPM, how did you get off on this tangent, and why so emotional? We were debating signing 16-yr-old KIDS, not 18-yr-old ADULTS. That is the debate. It is not about Americans vs Foreigners, or keeping adults from choosing college vs pro ball.quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Are you suggesting that MLB should pay that type of bonus just because our kids big bonus' because they are americans?
This might be a shock to you, but there are many american players who have been offered that and went to college first.
Maybe for some here it's about ethics, but for most it's not, it's about the almighty $$$$ not being spent on their kids.
I have a problem with signing CHILDREN to pro contracts, American OR foreign. Why is it ok to sign a 16-yr-old, and not a 10, 12, or 14-yr-old? If it's only about the almighty $$$$, let's go ahead and sign 'em up. The sooner MLB can get their hands on 'em, the better!
Not to change the subject, but I wanted to ask a question about size mattering. Do coaches that value size value height, strength, or weight? Let's say there are two hypothetical players that are equally good, yet one is 5'10 175 and the other is 6'2 170. Who has the size advantage?
quote:Let's say there are two hypothetical players that are equally good, yet one is 5'10 175 and the other is 6'2 170. Who has the size advantage?
The one with more hustle and heart, the one with leadership ability, coachability, stronger work ethic, better grades, and best attitude.
quote:Are they more talented than our american players, some yes, some no. Most have better work ethics. American born players given that much money won't work as hard, most will eventually quit the daily grind after years of not making it saying, there has to be more than this. They spend most of what they get in bonus on cars, possesions, the foreign born player will still eat rice and beans everyday even with a 2 million dollar bonus.
I disagree 100% with this statement.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Not trying to be a wise ***, but just how much is a high school education worth in the Dominican?
Without a completely thorough analysis - I will give a rough estimate - discounted at a present value rate of 10% before tax.
Value comes in at about $157.42 cents - total.
quote:Originally posted by KnightTime:That's a shame that MLB allows teams to sign 16-year-olds. At least get him a high school education before playing him, even if he is 6'6" and can hit a ton. Could you imagine taking a U.S. high school sophomore out of school and signing him to a pro contract? Why do we allow it with foreigners?quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/internat...irs/2008/265719.html
KT,
I only jumped in after this post. I never said I agreed with this. Why not allow it? As pointed out, giving them an education really doesn't help much, money does. If they don't get $$ so young, they are unable to play and have to work to help support family, couple bucks a week. If the teams don't think they had talent they wouldn't have leagues in the DR.
Up at the Mets complex today, if you don't think particular teams perfer latin over others, on one of the benchs out of 20 players, maybe, five at the most didn't have a z at the end of their name. Why? Can anyone answer?
In your scenario, without a doubt, yes. Size matters.quote:Originally posted by baseball168:
Not to change the subject, but I wanted to ask a question about size mattering. Do coaches that value size value height, strength, or weight? Let's say there are two hypothetical players that are equally good, yet one is 5'10 175 and the other is 6'2 170. Who has the size advantage?
Because they can sign 16-yr-old foreign kids and groom them for a few years. That is an obvious, and unfair, advantage over American kids. I guarantee if MLB could reach into the high schools and sign 16-yr-old American children to contracts, the American youngsters would develop just as well if not better than DR kids.quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Up at the Mets complex today, if you don't think particular teams perfer latin over others, on one of the benchs out of 20 players, maybe, five at the most didn't have a z at the end of their name. Why? Can anyone answer?
Let me say this to from my experience---we are very fortunate to have a number of excellent DR/Puerto Rican players with us every year and they educate the American kids with regard to the proper baseball work ethic
Most American kids do not have the worth ethic that the kids from DR do
Most American kids do not have the worth ethic that the kids from DR do
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Most American kids do not have the worth ethic that the kids from DR do
Nor do they(Hispanic Foreign Players) have to study Algebra and Trig, English, Biology, American History, Government to name a few while expressing this great work ethic, but they get a pass on Spanish 101
OLDSLUGGO
Dominicans are not from South America---not even close
As for schooling we currently have two who played with us on our travel team and both are at solid Division I programs right now and starting
Dominicans are not from South America---not even close
As for schooling we currently have two who played with us on our travel team and both are at solid Division I programs right now and starting
Old Slugger
You dance very well
Have you used your atlas to see there DR is?
What about the DR kids in college?
I think you need to get out more and see the real world and how it works---
You dance very well
Have you used your atlas to see there DR is?
What about the DR kids in college?
I think you need to get out more and see the real world and how it works---
i dont mean to take the attention away from the debate at hand, but I have a few opinionated questions for anyone who is going through the thread: when position needs size the most? Do left-handed pitchers need size as much as right-handed pitchers? Is there such a thing as a player who is too small or too big (relating to height/weight)?
shippirate09, size was a sore issue in the Bum family until reality set in. Reality #1) Bum, Jr., is the size he is. I can't change that. Reality #2) A Division One school wanted him, and they didn't give a hoot about his size.
My concern with these "size" threads is there are a lot of kids out there who get discouraged because they don't believe they live up to a certain standard--size. Kids, be realistic about your chances, yes, and the realities of your size, but NEVER give up your dream because the odds say you should.
Of course size matters. That's obvious! But Bum, Jr. refuses to let it stand in his way.
My concern with these "size" threads is there are a lot of kids out there who get discouraged because they don't believe they live up to a certain standard--size. Kids, be realistic about your chances, yes, and the realities of your size, but NEVER give up your dream because the odds say you should.
Of course size matters. That's obvious! But Bum, Jr. refuses to let it stand in his way.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Old Slugger
I think you need to get out more and see the real world and how it works---
50% of MILB are foreign born players. How much more real you gonna get?
oldslugger
But you still do not know where The Domincan republic is located---I find that very fascinating
SHP
First base is truly the only position where I like height--it helps the infielders immensely
But you still do not know where The Domincan republic is located---I find that very fascinating
SHP
First base is truly the only position where I like height--it helps the infielders immensely
Going all the way back to the original post, without making a hop west from Puerto Rico, I'd have to ask if the numbers quoted (84-85, 87 top, RHP, oops! LHP, those are a bit better than marginal for a LHP if a Stalker) were on a JUGS or Stalker? On a Stalker those are marginal D1 numbers unless there's a lot of projection or a lot of pitchability to go with them. On a JUGS those aren't really up to the D1s you were talking about unless there's something special to go with them.
We've got a RHP the same size with almost identical numbers including the running speed, although he hit 90 on a JUGS during the week according to a college scout, and he's having problems catching on at that level. I believe if he had better grades he may have signed by now, but time will tell if he can sign after the draft pulls players away from some schools.
We've got a RHP the same size with almost identical numbers including the running speed, although he hit 90 on a JUGS during the week according to a college scout, and he's having problems catching on at that level. I believe if he had better grades he may have signed by now, but time will tell if he can sign after the draft pulls players away from some schools.