Sobering article in Baseball America

quote:

but until then I would rather look at the full half where the kid is living a dream few get to see.

MiLB is such short part of ones life that I want to enjoy those minutes in the sun rather than think of the alternatives that we can't control.

I think that you have to when your son is in the dog fight. What will you say quit.Most players who make it, I bet when you ask them if they regretted it would say NO.So the dream gets cut ,how many can say they were ever even drafted. My son received a letter from a pro team this fall asking us various questions etc, I know my son would go in a heartbeat and I couldnt stop him, he is an adult.Another thing is after losing people in my life I realized that life should be about going after dreams when your young and even sometimes when your old.there are no replays in real life.

On another note, can't most these kids ask for a college fund to be set aside from the MLB so they can finish college after?I heard somehwere maybe on here that like 90% never use their college money.

how do they get away with paying less than minimum wage?

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
how do they get away with paying less than minimum wage?

Hourly? No one punches a clock and the schedules are not standard across the Milb board. Then what about those darn pitchers, they don't work that much or that hard anyway. Are they part time? Do you pay per AB, fielding play, money back on errors, incentives for those who move faster? Should something be done....absolutly. Will it...I don't see how

I do hope that many of you are not thinking that ours sons are complaining or that we are ungrateful for the opportunities given to them. Obviously they wouldn't do what they are doing if they didn't love it. And we support them 100% and each other's players as well.

What is being pointed out is that this boy's game is big business that sometimes can be seen as exploitation on the part of MLB. Unless you have knowledge of some things that happen to others, it does appear like just a little boys game.

In our situation our son has been very fortunate, even to the point as being very close to home for spring training and season. I have been to those back fields in jupiter during spring training and season games and I somewhat marvel at what it must take in man effort and $$ to run one milb let alone the entire staff together in 3-4 weeks. However, that does not mean that there are no concerns as to how players are treated during or after injury and not familiar with their rights, because they are just so happy to be a part of what's going on, they don't fully understand most of the business end. That's where the agent's role comes into play, very important to have someone on YOUR side.

Getting back to the article, this year mine begins at 1400 a month, 350 a week , playing 7 days is 50 per day, no sick day pay or paid vacation days. Figure that one out if you break it down hourly even at 8 hours a day, that's 6.25 an hour. If you are fortunate to find cheap housing and enjoy fast food you can TRY to make it work. If you have gotten some bonus money you can make it work, but very few have the luxury not to work in the off season, and employment in the off season is getting harder and harder to find in these tough economic times.

MLB does have a scholarship fund avaialable, however for some who have started families that means working and going back to school which is very difficult after being away from the learning environment for many many years. And that is also very difficult if you have never received more than 50 dollars a day and able to save because it does not cover everything. While many complain that going to school and putting in 30 hours a week in baseball is difficult, try going to school fulltime and working fulltime.

It would be shocking if a minor league player or someone they knew complained. It won't happen. It is sad the MLBPA lets the system perpetuate as if saying "I got mine so scr@@ those guys."

quote:

rz posted: If my sons TJ surgery was a complete failure, what would have happened to his scholarship in college, Could it have been rescinded by the school? Is that fair?

It is not fair. Some schools view it as a cost of doing business and just eat it.

ULL never cut a kids scholly for getting hurt that I know of, even career ending injuries. Son had a roomie who got TJ January of freshman year. The kid possibly wasn't healthy when he got there, but undiagnosed. He was on the original scholarship for three years. His injury ended his career. He finally retired after junior year without pitching an inning, without losing any scholarship money until he left the team. He could not throw without pain after two years.

I suppose some school might rip a scholly if you get hurt. It probably happens all the time. Thankfully not everywhere though.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
It would be shocking if a minor league player or someone they knew complained. It won't happen. It is sad the MLBPA lets the system perpetuate as if saying "I got mine so scr@@ those guys."

Or in a "nicer" way, with the same outcome.

" I had to go through it so should they, it's all part of the game".

quote:

I suppose some school might rip a scholly if you get hurt. It probably happens all the time. Thankfully not everywhere though.

I guess I don't know the answer to this...but with the new roster limits and the way players are "counted," will this kinda force schools to cut scholarships due to injury so they can get back to an active-35 players?

I have never seen a college player cut because he was injured, even those injured off of the field.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the NCAA has rules that protect players who are injured and let go. Usually, the player leaves on his own.

Just a few thoughts on this topic. I did not read the article, yet.

Are minor league players under paid? Absolutely, especially at the lower levels.

For a few it is no problem because they are already wealthy due to their signing bonus. Other have received enough signing bonus that their salary is no problem. Then there are those who signed for little or nothing, just because they love the game and want that opportunity.

Baseball, like most sports is part of the entertainment industry. That industry has made many people very rich. Where else within the entertainment industry does the person starting out make much (if any) money? In fact, most have to pay their own way in order to get their opportunity. How many are covered with insurance? How many have their travel covered? How many are given high level coaching that they don’t have to pay for? How many are treated special by thousands who watch them?

I look at professional baseball as an opportunity to have a positive impact on your future. At the best, a player can become a multi millionaire by playing baseball. More often it can create other careers within baseball. Professional baseball is an EDUCATION and if considering a career in baseball, it can be just as important as a college education. The difference is that no one complains about paying for a college education. A college education along with a professional baseball education makes for a strong resume. There are some things that can only be learned by being involved in professional baseball… Even some college kids will admit that. You can’t spend several years in professional baseball without learning a lot. It’s really amazing how many former professional players make a career in baseball. Agents, scouts, front office people, instructors, facility owners, broadcasters, coaches, the list is long and being a former player has its advantages.

Many start their coaching careers making little or no money. They do that because that is what they want to do. Others start their careers by working for little or nothing, because that is what they want to do. They are there to learn and move up the ladder.

From the business side, each player costs the organization much more money than his salary. They are investing in each player (obviously different amounts) in the hopes that the player ends up producing at the MLB level. If a player never ends up producing at that level, he could be considered a waste of money. Of course, there are many other ways that a player can become productive for that organization other than being a MLB player.

All that said, I do wish that minor league players did make more money. I don’t know if all the clubs could really afford to do that. There are two sides to consider… There are the ones paying… and the ones getting paid. Those minor league players who are suffering the most are the ones the club doesn’t place a lot of value on. They simply don’t have to pay more than they do to these players. After all, there are thousands who will be next in line to grab that opportunity.

I might get in trouble for saying this, but it seems like the players association could get something done. Let’s face it, Major League players make a lot of money. Many make much more money than most small businesses gross in a year. Major League players could easily give up one or two percent to help those who are just starting out. Over the years that would be several million just from ARod. (wouldn’t hurt him a bit) It seems the union should get involved because they would be helping their future members. Unfortunately, it looks like the union is only interested in the rich players. Kind of reminds you of the way lots of things work… Doesn’t it?

PG

Great analogy between entertainment business and baseball

Having been in the entertainment business I can tell more individuals go broke reaching for the moon than not---so called "overnite stars" have been struggling for years and out of their own pocket.

As for the union is it not true that the MILB players are not governed by the union?

Apropos side note: when my guy came out of college he was not drafted but was pursued as a free agent for a small amount of money. He had a nice job waiting so he turned down signing because he felt he only there for a short time until they did not need him as a fill in.

As usual PG, awesome

quote:

As for the union is it not true that the MILB players are not governed by the union?

TR,

People have tried to start a union for minor leaguers. I don't think anyone has accomplished that.

The MLBPA is the union I was referring to.
Major League Baseball Players Association.

A player becomes a member and pays dues once he becomes a Major League Player.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
People have tried to start a union for minor leaguers. I don't think anyone has accomplished that.

Try to google MiLB player Union or any other tags and you will be surprised that there is very little written in the WWW. That says something in itself

Good post PG.
There are many who complain about the cost of a college education. There are many who have made their living from baseball, not necessarily from playing the game. It is a real education, that I can agree with. I am not sure of the comparison between this and the entertainment field, in some ways yes, in some ways no. There are a lot more risks to playing baseball.
It costs lots of money for teams to support one player. No one doubts that.
It is in my opinion that those late picks considering entering a professional career in baseball do so with much consideration. Bonus money only goes so far, the player should be aware that possibly 50 dollars a day may not sustain him. Having a family able to support or finding employment off season is needed. The article brings up good points.
I am not with you on players giving up part of their salary to help others. That's up to the ML team. Some teams are so rich, it makes no difference how or where they spend their money. Some teams spend it on development more so over high priced players. Some spend it on both. That's the nature of the beast.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

Getting back to the article, this year mine begins at 1400 a month, 350 a week , playing 7 days is 50 per day, no sick day pay or paid vacation days. Figure that one out if you break it down hourly even at 8 hours a day, that's 6.25 an hour. If you are fortunate to find cheap housing and enjoy fast food you can TRY to make it work. If you have gotten some bonus money you can make it work, but very few have the luxury not to work in the off season, and employment in the off season is getting harder and harder to find in these tough economic times.

This kinda hit home with me when I was a young Marine right out of high school. I was getting paid peanuts, had great medical/dental benefits, 30days/yr paid vacation, see the world, etc. The funny thing is...I didn't know I was only getting paid peanuts because I was living my dream. And that was being a U.S. Marine. I think maybe some of these players in Milb do it because it's what they dreamed of in spite of the learning curves along the way. Like me, some eventually learn that they just can't do it anymore for a myriad of reasons, i.e. long hours, rigorous training, away from home, off-season jobs, see the writing on the wall, etc. I loved being a Marine, but after 4yrs I had had enough.

PG said it best above that you have those who signed for little or nothing but play because they love the game and want that opportunity. I venture to say that this might be the majority.

Everyone has made some very legitimate points here. If Younggun ever gets the opportunity to play past college, he will have to learn quickly the in's and out's of what it takes to survive and succeed. There will come many a day that he will wake up and decide for himself if it's worth it after weighing everything out (I hope!). Like RZ said, I too would hope I'm in a situation to help out and enjoy the ride along with him while it lasts.

If money were no object for them, would they still do it? It appears some still are every day.

YGD,
Most of my opinions are for those trying to decide between college and pro career out of HS.
Certainly it is a no brainer if one receives large amount of $$ to forgo college or perhaps to sustain them for a few years. If you don't care about the money, certainly go play. IMO, most continue to play FOR the opportunity to make more than milb pay.

Most players do not leave on their own, they leave when asked to, some players leave because of injury, some because they can't afford it anymore and some because they are tired.

Mine like all others wants to reach the highest level of the game and make it stick. But I know he is realistic and it will be easier for him to walk away with one year of college left. He has no plans to ever be a career minor leaguer.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
It would be shocking if a minor league player or someone they knew complained. It won't happen. It is sad the MLBPA lets the system perpetuate as if saying "I got mine so scr@@ those guys."

Or in a "nicer" way, with the same outcome.

" I had to go through it so should they, it's all part of the game".

Most are like that. Curt Flood was not.

Good read.It shows how important it is to understand the tough journey to the majors

This is why I think all players should go to college. You get free room and board,and likely food most of the time too. If baseball doesnt work out,you have a degree to fall back on.

Free room and board ?

quote:

I am not with you on players giving up part of their salary to help others. That's up to the ML team. Some teams are so rich, it makes no difference how or where they spend their money. Some teams spend it on development more so over high priced players. Some spend it on both. That's the nature of the beast.

Amen. MLB has a cash reserves of hundreds of millions of dollars....and they pay "professional" baseball players $50 a day, $6,000 per year simply because they can. Some teams are owned by billionaires. It is ludacrous to think that the poorest team couldn't pay players a minimum of $20K per year. I have read alot of rationalizations and I don't buy one of them, especially since players have zero freedom of movement for the majority of their career. They can fire you with a phone call, but you can't go find another baseball job until they fire you. Where else can you "own" an employee for $6K a year? By the way, most "entertainers" are independent contractors free to work when and where they want.

Bobble

Don't many scholarships include room and board to some degree ?

Only if they were full rides. Never seen a full ride in BB that is a true full ride like FB and BkTB.
As you know BB scholarships are partial and can be lump sums applied to tuition and if it is more than tuition then the rest could be applied to room and board. My son has free board but that is because he works at the café.
A 32 year vet recruiter at Western Michigan told me he had never seen a full ride but heard Jeter might have got one. 8 other recruiters agreed that they had never seen one either.
Yes the BB team pays for on the road meals but that is all I have ever heard of.

yes they are out there, my son turned down 4 to mid majors to, wanted acc got less not full, good offer anyway

Independant contractors are subject to contracts just like BB players. They live within the terms of a contract and only get paid when they perform that contract. They can negotiate their pay with thye same options that a BB player has. You either get hired or you don't.

I see high MLB draft picks that don't get full rides to a D1 4y program.
Funny I see average players who's parent say they got a full ride to a D1 college.
Why would a college take 1 full ride to get 1 player ? Not logical for 1 piece of the puzzle.

bobblehead

First you question free room and board and then you say your son has free board ----????????

Free board had nothing to do with the scholarship. It was given to him at work. They also offered to pay his post grad studies if he would commit to working for them. Nothing to do with scholarship. More to do with his good looks.

Let me add that a full ride is BB related money. In other words it is one of the 11.7 full rides. It is not instate, loans and other non BB money.

bobble

Thanx for the education--let me add that kids from north of the border have different situations in the USA so things are not all equal--I know what my check was every semester and it fine with me--its the bottom line so I never worried as to how it was spread out but I never saw any bills for room and board

No matter how minor leaguers get paid, it would be great if they made a decent salary. It would be nice of someone would do something about that.

Sorry, I will never feel sorry for anyone because they are a professional baseball player. They are doing exactly what they want to do or they were paid a lot of money to do it and they were not forced into it. Besides, I've seen those who end up disappointed because they didn't get that opportunity they wanted so badly. I guarantee you that none of those guys that didn't get the chance are feeling sorry for those who are playing professional baseball and only making a small salary. They would trade places in a heart beat.

That said, I sure wish my sons would have been paid more when they were in the lower levels of the minors. Not sure it would have made any difference though. They didn't plan on staying at that pay rate for ever and they were doing what they wanted. Neither of them ever complained about the money and I don't recall sending them any.

Maybe, someday, MLB will solve this problem. Regarding MLB and MLBPA, I think you will find both have a ton of money. These are the two groups that make all the rules. So blaming one without the other doesn't make any sense. Tell me the next time you see Donald Fehr talking on behalf of minor league players. In fact, during the strike year, some minor leaguers crossed the picket line to play, thinking this was their chance at making it big. The MLBPA basically black balled most of these minor league players that crossed the picket line. Not MLB, but MLBPA was what kept those minor leaguers on the side lines.

In the end, it's only the low or no bonus guys who do the suffering. Those are the guys that the MLB club doesn't think are worth investing additional money on. If they thought differently, they would have given them a big signing bonus. The way it is, they are simply giving them a chance. A chance that many would give anything to get.

Actually, I agree that players are underpaid in the lower levels of the minor leagues and overpaid in the Major Leagues. I do wish they would do something about that. It seems like the right thing to do.

A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.


dreams can take you along way, i'm sure these young men will never regret their choice. the heavy hammer of life will hit them soon enough. i'm sure they are enjoying the journey.

Great read...life for the minor leaguers have some difficult challeges keeping pace of their dreams....hang tough, guy's! don't let up!

Do not Doctors in residency work hours that are extreme and make minimal pay?

The base pay for resident phyicians is about $45,000 first year. They work horrendous schedules with 30 hour shifts being routine.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Free board had nothing to do with the scholarship. It was given to him at work. They also offered to pay his post grad studies if he would commit to working for them. Nothing to do with scholarship. More to do with his good looks.

What has this got to do with the topic of pro baseball?

TPM ,a poster said the scholarships in BB provided free room and board. I challenged that and TR countered with your son get free board and I explained that had nothing to do with his free meal plan.
Maybe you didn't read all the posts.

PG, this obviously isn't your first rodeo.

My son is living a dream and definitely doesn't want any pity thrown his way. Life is all about choices and he's made his. Would he love more money? DUH! He knew what he was getting into and has no regrets thus far.

A couple of his Dartmouth buddies (finance majors) who came out of college making close to six figures have told him that they would give it up to be in his situation. My dentist has said the same thing. Not sure if push came to shove and they knew ALL the pluses and minuses they would follow through...

quote:

Originally posted by FrankF:

A couple of his Dartmouth buddies (finance majors) who came out of college making close to six figures have told him that they would give it up to be in his situation. My dentist has said the same thing. Not sure if push came to shove and they knew ALL the pluses and minuses they would follow through...

My son has some friends making good bucks and say the same thing. I think a lot has to do with the fact that they are only familiar with the end result which they see on TV. Everyone would take MLB starting salary in a heartbeat, but not sure they would take milb salary year after year. They would have to give up things and they live well.

I was talking to a client the other day who just recently returned from a MLB fantasy camp. We compared that camp to milb, he wasn't aware about how life is in milb.

Needless to say, we all know our kids wouldn't be doing it if they didn't love it, despite the difficulties. A good thing to remember is that most of our kids here started their pro careers after college. My son had to put some time in this year in rookie complex ball. He said after that he much preferred he went to college first, as he has always stated.

quote:

A good thing to remember is that most of our kids here started their pro careers after college.

TPM,
I'm not so sure about that. There are many who post here or have posted here who have sons that signed right out of high school. Including at least five that have already appeared in the Major Leagues.