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Does anyone have any experience with this scenario:  My 2016 Junior catcher recently had his spring team removed as an option (long story).  He has an offer from a less than desirable team and has no interest in playing for that team (has an unfavorable history with the offering program).  He is faced with taking the team offer reluctantly, not playing at all, trying to find a team still looking for catchers (2b or 1st are options) in the spring, or just training.  Is it better to be on a summer team that is mediocre, just to play or not play and just train.  Also, does anyone have any experience with waiting until Spring and still being able to find a spot on a decent team.  Any opinion is appreciated in advance!

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I think it boils down to what "unfavorable history" means.  If it is a wins/losses issue then it may make sense to play with them.  If it is something personal, then probably not. 

 

Good thing is your kid is catcher.  I'll bet teams would make room.  I'd be inclined to wait it out a little bit and trying to find a team which fits. 

I know 2forU, but I just realized that I do. You know my opinion. Why "settle" for a travel team with significant costs and time committment if your son will not be happy. At 17u, he should be showcasing his skillset on the best travel team possible, not merely developing and getting reps.

 

-Edited for clarity.

Last edited by Batty67

I'm not sure what's meant by a "spring team."  The only team a 2016 should have in the spring is his high school team.  Assuming they haven't even had tryouts yet, I don't understand why he wouldn't be on that team, unless there has been a disciplinary or grades issue at school that has rendered him ineligible.

 

If it's the latter, then I think focusing on baseball right now is the least of your worries.  I would get his house in order first and then, and only then, turn your thoughts to baseball.

 

If that's not the issue at all, then my general suggestions are:

 

1.  If he's interested in a future in collegiate baseball, he needs to be playing this summer, either for the most highly reputed travel program that will have him, or for his American Legion program.  I prefer the former, but if you've exhausted all those options (hard to imagine given the sheer number of programs around these days), Legion ball does help sometimes -- especially if the only remaining alternative is not playing.

 

2.  By playing, I mean playing games on a team.  The term "showcasing" is used loosely sometimes, but to clarify, I would urge your son not to forgo playing for a team in favor of serially attending showcasing events as an individual.  That's a great way to spend a ton of money and actually make a negative impression.

 

3.  If your son can't find a spot on anyone's team, then perhaps it is time to come to grips with the notion that collegiate baseball is not in his future.  Another thread on this site recently posted the numbers demonstrating the low percentages of HS players who move on to any level of NCAA baseball, and it was 6.8%.  So bear in mind, that means 93.2% don't move on.  And if your son is out for the HS season, he's not even as close as the 93.2% are.

Midlo is it Midlothian?   I get what you are saying and I was.kind of thinking the same thing.  I didn't realize we were talking about a 17 yr old.  Things should be pretty settled by then.  But on the bright side I will just add this.  I have seen that 6.8% many times but that number is hugely misleading.  First there are a number of kids who just play to be on a high school team and have zero intention to play college.  Then there is the other end of the spectrum great athletes who have choices and choose a different sport for college.  Then there is another group who is good enough say for d3 but just don't want to do it.  Kind of the D1 or bust crowd.  Another groip that are high academics and would rather forgo sports after high school and focus on academics at an ivy type school.  Etc. Etc.  There are a lot of kids who eliminate themselves for a variety of reasons.  I firmly believe that if you have some talent there is always a place for you somewhere.  Of course you may have to throw out every other consideration for picking your school and use baseball as your only criterion.   None the less a realistic outlook is always important.

Midlo hit the nail on the head.  First, assuming you mean summer and not spring (i.e., you aren't considering not playing for your HS team, but you're considering not having a summer team).

 

However, when I read your post, the first thing that struck me is a HUGE red flag.  I say this with full apologies up front, since I don't know you, your son or your history, but you mention that you just removed your current team option (long story), and there's a bad history with another team that's made an offer to play.  The common denominator in this is your son (or you).  Why the drama?  If your son is talented, then why not more options for him already?

 

There's a saying that every team has "that guy".  If you look around the team and can't find "that guy", then it's you.  My question is are you (or you son) "that guy"?  Again, full apologies in advance for making the assumption, but clearly there's some drama in play here and maybe some soul searching necessary?

 

If not, Then Midlo is spot on. Find a team that is playing in premier scouting events this summer and get on it and work your tail off.  If the only offer on the table is not favorable, wait until later and see what materializes.  As Joliet mentioned, you can settle now and be stuck, or wait it out and settle later.  I'd recommend the latter with the hopes that something better comes along.  If something better doesn't, then I'd give some serious consideration as to why not.

 

Good Luck.

You absolutely have to play on a team this summer....and if at all possible make it a team from a reputable organization playing in reputable well scouted events.  My son played on a very good 17U team last summer...and regularly played in front of 15-20 college coaches...sometimes as many as 40.  At 16U, his team (I had put it together at 15U) was VERY good...and played in good events...but wasn't a well known organization. We drew very few coaches to our games even though that team has now produced 3 D1's...including one who will be drafted...and at times had 3 other kids who are D1 commits (another potential draftee) who played with us in multiple events.  We were only in our second year (played 15U and 16U) so the coaches just didn't show up like you'd expect for a team with that kind of talent. 

Thanks for all the replies!  I should have titled this - summer season and not spring.  My son is a returning member of his high school varsity team and has been told by his coach that he will be a part of the program next year.  16 year old Junior, younger than some sophomores. 20/10 vision in both eyes, 5’11” 155lbs, 3.5 GPA, volunteers, both swims and dives for his HS.  He is diving in his first conference tournament (first year diver) this Friday. He fully intends to play college baseball and we are trying to figure that part out.  The travel team he played for last year was a local college prep team that liked his abilities to catch (coaches told him that he was the best of three catchers and one of his best on the team at hitting). Some had greater ball velocity, but pop times were equivalent and my son has greater throwing accuracy to all bases. I do not have a current pop time.   Great coaches, 6 high school team mates on the team, and very few losses. This was one of the best travel team experiences for both of us. The team was merged with another program and was forming two teams.  The program announced and fully intended to bring the returning players back and keep them together for another great year. We skipped almost all tryouts for the 2015 summer for that reason, only to JUST be told that he was the only person that was going with the other team because they needed a catcher (much weaker team and no high school team mates).  This was very disappointing after being told he had a great year.  Feeling very slighted, my son is opting out of returning, hence my email about what is better, mediocre team or not playing / training or finding another team.  Yeah, we know the end will come eventually and he should quit being a sissy about it, but so he wants to enjoy it while he can. His team mates hang out all year at school, you know the HS team togetherness and they can not believe he is not on the team  - parents included.  The risk of waiting for a team to pop up seems like just that, too risky.

We have discussed what happens to most players at some point in their careers and the reality of what may happen.  We would not be here if we had been told by someone that he was mediocre and feel that we are struggling to keep him from falling through the cracks.  We have been told by many coaches and pitchers that he is one of the best blocking and receiving catchers.  Quick feet, controls the game, covers bunts well, – normal dominant catcher stuff.  Ball velocity needs to increase and he is working on that, but most coaches seem enamored with velocity only and typically we see that costing the team wins.  He catches, team wins, the guy with the A+ arm catches, we lose.  Typically due to poor blocking and framing, and the gun throwing the ball into the outfield.   

We have been to the Honor Roll Camp in NY and caught for guys pitching 88-92 MPH.  92 was difficult, as he had not seen that speed before, but he was able to block two at that speed and missed two, but had no issues with 92 that were catchable.  He had a base hit off that guy as well.  We have also been to a few college prospect camps from colleges that have showed any interest and started the college tours to see if my son likes the schools. 

We are sure we are facing the same things as everyone else and greatly appreciate the advice.  Sorry for the long post, but hopefully it is a bit clearer now.

 

Originally Posted by 2forU:

.... He fully intends to play college baseball and we are trying to figure that part out.  The travel team he played for last year was a local college prep team that liked his abilities to catch (coaches told him that he was the best of three catchers and one of his best on the team at hitting). Some had greater ball velocity, but pop times were equivalent and my son has greater throwing accuracy to all bases. I do not have a current pop time.   Great coaches, 6 high school team mates on the team, and very few losses. This was one of the best travel team experiences for both of us. ... We skipped almost all tryouts for the 2015 summer for that reason, only to JUST be told that he was the only person that was going with the other team because they needed a catcher (much weaker team and no high school team mates).  This was very disappointing after being told he had a great year.  Feeling very slighted, my son is opting out of returning,...His team mates hang out all year at school, you know the HS team togetherness and they can not believe he is not on the team  - parents included.  The risk of waiting for a team to pop up seems like just that, too risky.

...  We would not be here if we had been told by someone that he was mediocre and feel that we are struggling to keep him from falling through the cracks.  We have been told by many coaches and pitchers that he is one of the best blocking and receiving catchers.  Quick feet, controls the game, covers bunts well, – normal dominant catcher stuff.  Ball velocity needs to increase and he is working on that, but most coaches seem enamored with velocity only and typically we see that costing the team wins.  He catches, team wins, the guy with the A+ arm catches, we lose.  Typically due to poor blocking and framing, and the gun throwing the ball into the outfield.   

We have been to the Honor Roll Camp in NY and caught for guys pitching 88-92 MPH.  92 was difficult, as he had not seen that speed before, but he was able to block two at that speed and missed two, but had no issues with 92 that were catchable.  He had a base hit off that guy as well.  ...

 

 

Welcome to the site.  I'll just comment on some of your comments...

 

If he fully intends to play college ball and doesn't have any schools showing hard interest, the focus this summer should be to get in front of targeted schools.  It no longer matters if he is a young or old junior - he is a junior.  Time to put "playing with HS buds" aside for the summer.  He can do that during HS season and again next HS season.

 

You will hear often here that you can't teach arm strength and that tool is very high on the list of college recruiting coordinators.  If his arm strength is not as good as the guy with the A+ arm, it is possible that they are doing him a favor putting him on the other squad. During the recruiting process, it becomes more important who these teams will be playing in front of as opposed to whether you had the friendly and/or winning experience.  Will either of these teams be playing in the right events that will be in front of the targeted school recruiters?  Both?  If so, he may be in a good situation, regardless of how much the team wins or loses.  If not, you need to try and find a program that does.  BTW, what is the unfavorable history with the team?  It's not just that your son wasn't put on the other team is it?

 

Your son has received compliments for his abilities because he is a good player.  Once you get into that 6.7% funnel, everyone is a good player.  Good players are the new mediocre.  Now it's time to focus on standing out among that crowd.

 

Specifically what type of interest did he receive from the Honor Roll camp and the prospect camps?  Do you feel you have a solid recruiting plan in place?  It is a bit odd that you don't have POP times for a rising junior who aspires to play in college.  I'm guessing others are correct here in that you need to step up the efforts in putting together a solid plan.  I also agree with others that if he is a college caliber catcher, he will be able to latch on to another decent travel team - one that will put him in front of some of the right people.  But it takes work to figure all that out.  This site is a great resource to use in those efforts. 

Best wishes!   

Last edited by cabbagedad
You mentioned in there not knowing a pop time right now.  I can't understand this.  Especially if you are borderline doesn't it always help to know where you are and where you have to go?  There is never a time I don't know my son's mound velocity.  And more important there is never a time he doesn't know.  Sometimes we may be frustrated with it and not want to advertise it but we always know it.  And agree also with the theme of time to not worry about playing with friends.  If college ball is what he wants its time to go after it.  My son always says he just wants to be on the best team he can be on and he will keep his old friends while making new friends!  And remember what I said earlier if a kid has some talent and really wants to play there is always somewhere for that to happen.  Don't pay attention to the 6.8% thing it is an invalid number.

Again, being very familiar with the Dad, the player, and the team situation, I know they will make the best decision together. I can attest that his son drew the shortest stick possible in the two-team situation he described. I also deeply appreciate the candid input from the HSBW members and recommended he join a few months back.

2forU, as others have said, its time to put aside playing with friends and focus on what needs to get done to get your son noticed.  My son is a year behind yours.  He has been playing on a  good team for years.  We left it this off-season to move to a team that is geared towards getting the kids exposure vs. being a great team.  A few of his old teammates made the move as well, but our kids are going to be split amongst 2 or 3 teams.  I can tell you it is the best decision we have ever made.  

 

The new organization has run multiple private showcases.  Each one brings in about 25 college coaches.  They invite a select few Sophomores to the showcases.  One of which is my son.  Just from those alone we have interest for about 5 schools.  I can guarantee you that if we stayed with the other program we would be struggling to get that level of notice over the next few years.  Its amazing how much difference being in the right program can make.

Last edited by joes87

2forU, it hurts when something like this happens.  It feels like a personal attack and turns your son's world upside down.  But, like a lot of people have stated, your son has to play this summer.  Get him on the best team possible that wants him.  It makes it harder when they decide to cut/transfer him after tryouts have occurred, but teams will find room for a good ball player.  Is his current team through a well known organization?  Might be time to sit down with the owner and have a conversation, but make sure your BS meter is on full alert because if you walk out the door, your money goes with you.  Also, check with other good organizations in your area.  Once you have him on a team, make sure he's working on his school list and reaching out to coaches.  Looks like he does well in school and other activities, so that is a big plus.

 

In regards to pop time and arm velocity, at least in my limited experience with a couple of showcases, the big guys with the strong arms get the interest, even if the smaller guy hits the same pop time and throws 7-10 mph slower.  I think I've read that on several different threads on here as well because it's easier to teach mechanics than velocity.  Your son should know what his pop time is because it a measurement that is very important at the catchers position.  He needs to decide how bad he wants to increase his velocity and work at it.  

 

I hope he finds a home on a good team for the summer and has a blast playing high school ball.  Please keep us posted to your journey!  

Well, I am glad we have eliminated grades/disciplinary issues from the equation.

 

The harsh thing I would offer is this.  Your son was in a program that has essentially developed an A team and a B team (given that you describe the team to which your son was assiged in less flattering terms).  The A team still has 5 guys from your son's one high school team.  Your son got sent to the B team.

 

Unlike Batty, I don't know you or your son, but if I'm just reading the tea leaves, it sounds to me like maybe you guys are taking the praise offered by friendly voices a little too much to heart and not seeing things as they truly are.  First of all, any travel team that takes 5 guys off one high school team in one junior class is not going to be one of the very best travel programs.  I mean, even at a place like Cosby, you don't find 5 division I caliber guys in the junior class every year, and they almost never end up playing on the same travel team even then.  That's not to say they can't be respectable or that they can't compete or help players advance on to college ball, but it says to me that while we may be talking about a well run program, we're not talking about one of the top 5 programs let's say. 

 

And then, when push came to shove, that team kept at least 2 catchers, possibly more, and sent your son to the B team. 

 

I have to tell you that catcher has always been, in my experience, the absolutely most difficult position to fill with someone who can really shine at it.  If your son had gotten the shaft -- if he should have been kept on the A team but some daddy ball thing or something like that got him placed down -- people would be beating down your door to get at him.  The fact that he missed fall tryout events etc. would not matter at all.  (For that matter, some programs are still running tryouts for the coming year; I think the Canes either just had one or are about to have one, and they run several teams at each age level.)

 

I also hear you saying that while your son is a grinder, he does not have the strongest arm.  That's not a life sentence, because throwing can be worked on for improvement (though time is running out for your son, admittedly).  To me all of this pegs your son as ranging from at most a fringe D1 prospect, possibly a better fit at D3, and possibly a club player or someone who doesn't continue on past high school.  So the first thing I would suggest is, adjust your sights to the level that all objective indications would suggest is in the cards.

 

One way you might do that is to embrace the B team, then go out there and help make that team as good as it can be by being the rock behind the plate and in the batting order.  A catcher is in a unique position to do this, if he performs.

 

The other way would be to stay home and play Legion ball.  This is still a viable option for someone in your son's shoes, though it bears some checking on how well coached the program covering your son's school might be -- they can vary greatly from one post to another.

2foru,

Glancing back through the thread, I think there is one thing that is not covered... do you feel like your son has had a good honest specific assessment for which college division level he should be targeting?  This would be something beyond the positive comments of various coaches and players.  If not, it can be done in a number of different ways.  Let us know if that is still needed and you are unsure how to go about it. 

Last edited by cabbagedad

Thanks for all the advice and comments.  It's interesting to read the replies and it made me realized people actually read every word and ask questions, making me re-think how I should have written the sentence in the first place.  Also, don’t’ worry about the honest remarks and questions, we have the same honest thoughts and discussions. Brutal and blunt are acceptable as long as they are not personal (appreciated greatly).

The experience with the B team: we left that team B year earlier due to the limitations of the program, not playing time or coaching.  Coaching was decent, two younger guys who played D1 baseball (now at the Pentagon) and really taught my son a lot about the game.  But the program turned into a way to fund the owner (sole source of income), so there were too many kids each team at all age levels, and the positions were filled for that purpose.  So we left amicably and went to the A team. Team A was geared (at least in their marketing) towards getting your kids introduced to and in front of college coaches.  Then the programs merged and we were back to team B. The only excuse that was given in our heart to heart with both programs is that my son would make more of an impact on team B than the other catchers and they need a catcher.  I guess the original experience was not that bad on the original B team, just less than desirable, we wanted more exposure, help in college exposure, no packing of the roster (just because), and so it was time to move on.  I only have a schedule from team B: VA Tourneys / VMI Lexington, Dynamic Event (VA/ MD), D1 Draftable / Victory Cup,  Stars and Bars / Catholic U

I do not have a pop time that is current (agree we should have this as well as other stats) and I am not sure how accurate it is.  When he was 15 and playing for team B, he was timed by his coach at 2.15. I do not like to publish facts that may not be accurate.  He is working on his velocity in a velocity training program over the winter, training his swing, and will continue that training.  Ball Velocity seems to be his nemesis.  Velocity seems to be an easy disqualifier for the position.

Thanks again for all your words and advice and good luck with your baseball adventures.

I’ll let you know what we do; we are discussing this tonight after dive practice.

 

 

I would like to know more about how you figure out your target level and I do not feel that we have had that honest type of assessment.  Anything you can offer on that would be great!
 
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

2foru,

Glancing back through the thread, I think there is one thing that is not covered... do you feel like your son has had a good honest specific assessment for which college division level he should be targeting?  This would be something beyond the positive comments of various coaches and players.  If not, it can be done in a number of different ways.  Let us know if that is still needed and you are unsure how to go about it. 

 

2.15 pop time would be very decent for a then-freshman.

 

If a college coach has that number, the next question he'd ask would be, where is he now?  Has he progressed, or did he peak at 15?

 

Also -- there's a lot of discussion, on this site and elsewhere, about playing multiple sports.  I did it as a youth and I'm all for it, but there are some limitations.  Baseball is certainly like other sports in valuing athleticism, but it's unlike many other sports in requiring precision as well.  You hear stories of guys tending bar one week and playing in the NFL the next.  You don't hear stories like that in MLB.  Even Michael Jordan couldn't do more than struggle at the A level in the minors.  And Jordan was an outfielder.  Catching is an area where putting in the hours on technique is the big key to development.  You could say the same about any position, of course, but it's probably the most true with respect to catching.

 

My college roommate was on our college's diving team, or more aptly, he WAS the diving team, i.e., he was the only diver on the swim team.  I don't pretend to any expertise in diving except to say that it, too, requires a rare combination of fitness, athleticism, and precision.  The latter comes only with an extraordinary number of repetitions.

 

I'm not here to tell you what your son should aim for.  But you say he has made college baseball his # 1 goal.  If that is the case, I would respectfully suggest that for the next 8-15 months (depending on whether he finds success by fall or not), he make baseball his "one and only."  Because I'm wondering if, in trying to compete in two such demanding sports, one of them may be getting in the way of his # 1 goal.

 

If he were a football guy, then it'd be easier to do multiple sports.  You can't play football all the time anyway, not unless you want to be in a wheelchair soon.  So staying active by pursuing other sports is, IMHO, much easier for those guys than it is for baseball-first guys.

Originally Posted by 2forU:

Thanks for all the advice and comments.  It's interesting to read the replies and it made me realized people actually read every word and ask questions, making me re-think how I should have written the sentence in the first place.  Also, don’t’ worry about the honest remarks and questions, we have the same honest thoughts and discussions. Brutal and blunt are acceptable as long as they are not personal (appreciated greatly).

The experience with the B team: we left that team B year earlier due to the limitations of the program, not playing time or coaching.  Coaching was decent, two younger guys who played D1 baseball (now at the Pentagon) and really taught my son a lot about the game.  But the program turned into a way to fund the owner (sole source of income), so there were too many kids each team at all age levels, and the positions were filled for that purpose.  So we left amicably and went to the A team. Team A was geared (at least in their marketing) towards getting your kids introduced to and in front of college coaches.  Then the programs merged and we were back to team B. The only excuse that was given in our heart to heart with both programs is that my son would make more of an impact on team B than the other catchers and they need a catcher.  I guess the original experience was not that bad on the original B team, just less than desirable, we wanted more exposure, help in college exposure, no packing of the roster (just because), and so it was time to move on.  I only have a schedule from team B: VA Tourneys / VMI Lexington, Dynamic Event (VA/ MD), D1 Draftable / Victory Cup,  Stars and Bars / Catholic U

I do not have a pop time that is current (agree we should have this as well as other stats) and I am not sure how accurate it is.  When he was 15 and playing for team B, he was timed by his coach at 2.15. I do not like to publish facts that may not be accurate.  He is working on his velocity in a velocity training program over the winter, training his swing, and will continue that training.  Ball Velocity seems to be his nemesis.  Velocity seems to be an easy disqualifier for the position.

Thanks again for all your words and advice and good luck with your baseball adventures.

I’ll let you know what we do; we are discussing this tonight after dive practice.

 

 

Ok.  As I see it organization A was more geared toward exposure than organization B.  That is why you left.  Now A and B have merged.  So what is the new organization's philosophy on exposure?  Will there be different exposure opportunities on the different teams or will they go to the same events?  Will you kid really be hurt by being a stud catcher on team 2 vs. being a good catcher on team 1?

 

I can relate my own kid's experience who is a few years younger.  He was on a team several years before he got his opportunity to catch (the other catcher left).  It was an excellent team, full of excellent players.  He always struggled to stand out.  He eventually left and became that "stud" catcher on a team with less deep talent.  That allowed him to be "exposed."  Other coaches now know him because he stands out on his team -- he is not in anyone's shadow.  Where it ends up is anyone's guess.  But food for thought.    

If your son is a few years younger -- a freshman -- I would caution you against maintaining that philosophy going forward.

 

Teams attract attention based on their total talent level.  When you're the one stud on a team that isn't drawing scouts to watch, the going can get tough. 

 

I do agree, though, that no team helps you if they don't let you play.  Generally, I recommend you join the strongest team that provides you a sufficient playing opportunity.  It's only if none of those teams find you good enough to offer playing time that I start to think maybe the whole endeavor needs to be re-evaluated.

Originally Posted by 2forU:
I would like to know more about how you figure out your target level and I do not feel that we have had that honest type of assessment.  Anything you can offer on that would be great!
 
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

2foru,

Glancing back through the thread, I think there is one thing that is not covered... do you feel like your son has had a good honest specific assessment for which college division level he should be targeting?  This would be something beyond the positive comments of various coaches and players.  If not, it can be done in a number of different ways.  Let us know if that is still needed and you are unsure how to go about it. 

 

Honest assessment...

There are several ways to accomplish this and you can make it fit any budget. 

 

Search out a local respected college coach (can be any level) and ask if he would be willing to observe a workout and assess.  If you can't get a college coach, look for someone with similar qualifications.  It may be a respected travel coach, Large program HS coach who has a history of advancing players, recent high level players, etc.  Avoid using anyone affiliated with the programs your son is currently involved in.  There can be a bias, tendency or motivation to provide feedback that is more positive than neutral and honest. Ideally, it's someone who doesn't know your son or knows little of him.  Be very clear that you are after an honest eval for purposes of targeting the right schools and you respectfully have no interest in polite compliments.  As you are getting evaluation info, ask for specific aspects, pro and con, that are behind the recommendation (arm strength, athleticism, footwork, size, mobility, specific tools, etc.).  More than one of these evals is even better.

 

Then, ask people that are close to your son (current HS coach, club coach, etc.) and may be qualified to provide valuable insight as well.  Again, be clear that you are after honest assessment for purposes of proper targeting.  Discard any info based on intangibles such as heart, passion, gamer, etc.  While these will help your son in the journey, they are not things you can count on an RC to see, measure or value in a short window.

 

As you go to various camps, ask the same info.  Gather measurables (pop time, throwing velo, 60 time, bat exit velo, height/weight, etc.) from verifiable sources.  Check some threads here and elsewhere that allow you to compare son's measurables for a given position to a scale that breaks out desired numbers by D1, D2, etc.. 

 

Go watch games of different levels and try to honestly assess how your son would fit in.  Would he be a standout, middle of the pack or struggling to contribute?

 

Reach out to the coaches at camps he has attended where there was some interest.  Ask for their honest opinion and, again, ask for specifics (don't be hurt if they don't remember).  Take that opportunity to ask them specifically what they look for in a catcher.

 

If you are able to go to a PG Showcase (if budget allows), they are considered the gold standard. While they will not tell you specifically what level your son likely belongs, their rating system is quite consistent, they take and document measurables and they are universally trusted and followed by college coaches.  Once you have been rated, you are in their data base.  Then, you can compare with other players and see what level they end up.  You will also likely be among a group of very good players and get a better scope of what "good" really means.

 

At the minimum, get the unattached assessment/s and go to some games.  Once you have done some of these things, it will be much more clear where to put your efforts.  Of course, a HUGE factor is matching this with the academic/career goals of your son.  

Last edited by cabbagedad

Was told by Summer coach he was one of best catchers, as well as one of best hitters. Teams do not let good hitters go. Something doesn't sound right here.

sorry, have to ask-what kind of parent were you? Did you question things, butt heads with coach, etc.?  

Imo why spend a lot of money playing for a team your son will not be happy on, esp. One w marginal talenT? Look around and see what else is out there, u still have time. 

Will he be starting catcher on varsity HS this yr? If not how much playing time do you see him getting? Will he play another position and hit?

He's a HS Jr., and needs to get serious About what colleges he would like to attend on academic level. See if those colleges have showcases and get there, esp if they are local. Get seen, and know his numbers. Some showcases all coaches from many diff levels. See which ones contact him.

good luck

Originally Posted by 2forU:

Thanks for all the replies!  I should have titled this - summer season and not spring.  My son is a returning member of his high school varsity team and has been told by his coach that he will be a part of the program next year.  16 year old Junior, younger than some sophomores. 20/10 vision in both eyes, 5’11” 155lbs, 3.5 GPA, volunteers, both swims and dives for his HS.  He is diving in his first conference tournament (first year diver) this Friday. He fully intends to play college baseball and we are trying to figure that part out.  The travel team he played for last year was a local college prep team that liked his abilities to catch (coaches told him that he was the best of three catchers and one of his best on the team at hitting). Some had greater ball velocity, but pop times were equivalent and my son has greater throwing accuracy to all bases. I do not have a current pop time.   Great coaches, 6 high school team mates on the team, and very few losses. This was one of the best travel team experiences for both of us. The team was merged with another program and was forming two teams.  The program announced and fully intended to bring the returning players back and keep them together for another great year. We skipped almost all tryouts for the 2015 summer for that reason, only to JUST be told that he was the only person that was going with the other team because they needed a catcher (much weaker team and no high school team mates).  This was very disappointing after being told he had a great year.  Feeling very slighted, my son is opting out of returning, hence my email about what is better, mediocre team or not playing / training or finding another team.  Yeah, we know the end will come eventually and he should quit being a sissy about it, but so he wants to enjoy it while he can. His team mates hang out all year at school, you know the HS team togetherness and they can not believe he is not on the team  - parents included.  The risk of waiting for a team to pop up seems like just that, too risky.

We have discussed what happens to most players at some point in their careers and the reality of what may happen.  We would not be here if we had been told by someone that he was mediocre and feel that we are struggling to keep him from falling through the cracks.  We have been told by many coaches and pitchers that he is one of the best blocking and receiving catchers.  Quick feet, controls the game, covers bunts well, – normal dominant catcher stuff.  Ball velocity needs to increase and he is working on that, but most coaches seem enamored with velocity only and typically we see that costing the team wins.  He catches, team wins, the guy with the A+ arm catches, we lose.  Typically due to poor blocking and framing, and the gun throwing the ball into the outfield.   

We have been to the Honor Roll Camp in NY and caught for guys pitching 88-92 MPH.  92 was difficult, as he had not seen that speed before, but he was able to block two at that speed and missed two, but had no issues with 92 that were catchable.  He had a base hit off that guy as well.  We have also been to a few college prospect camps from colleges that have showed any interest and started the college tours to see if my son likes the schools. 

We are sure we are facing the same things as everyone else and greatly appreciate the advice.  Sorry for the long post, but hopefully it is a bit clearer now.

 

I highlighted parts of your second post that makes me wonder why your son was put on the weaker of the two teams.  

If there are stronger catchers to pick from then it might be a hard truth to face as a parent to separate the good things you are hearing versus reality. 

There was a kid on my son's travel team that for 2 years (12U and 13U) didn't realize that he wasn't up to the level of the competition we were facing because no coach on the team would be honest about the kids ability.  

You stated that your son's velocity needs to increase and that most coaches are enamored by velocity.  This seems to be the major reason why your son is moved to the mediocre team.  

I would find it hard to believe that a 16U(?) team that is probably going to be playing in some showcases doesn't want to field the best players.  

I know I may have to face this someday with my son and is a question as parents we all face; "Is my son good enough for the next level?"

I do believe that there is a college somewhere for most Varsity level players. 

 

As an outside observer of this thread, a couple of thoughts come to mind..... if your son is at a large school well known for baseball, most coaches at the DIII level would still consider your son a prospect if he handles pitchers well, receives and throws well ( in the 2.1 range or less) and can hit. If he is behind a better catcher than that, and that is why he is not starting on his High school team, it will be tough to jump to the next level unless he is playing for a travel team and can showcase his skills.... Even a weaker one... If he goes to a small school, not known for its baseball and he isn't the starter, I doubt there is a route to the college level short of a walk on tryout. 

He does not sound like a D-I prospect from what I read or infer.... so his next best step is to target which set of schools he would like to attend, identify when they have Camps and go... and ask the coaches after the event to provide an honest assessment of his abilities to play at the next level. (if not at that school, then where)

I hope my two cents worth helps...

Originally Posted by Midlo Dad:

If your son is a few years younger -- a freshman -- I would caution you against maintaining that philosophy going forward.

 

Teams attract attention based on their total talent level.  When you're the one stud on a team that isn't drawing scouts to watch, the going can get tough. 

 

I do agree, though, that no team helps you if they don't let you play.  Generally, I recommend you join the strongest team that provides you a sufficient playing opportunity.  It's only if none of those teams find you good enough to offer playing time that I start to think maybe the whole endeavor needs to be re-evaluated.

I agree.  And I wasn't talking about being the one stud on a bad team.  Just being on a team that doesn't have as deep of talent at all spots. 

 

In my area, organizations that have multiple teams generally stack the first team with all Div 1 prospects/commits.  However, the "second" team will still have several Div 1 prospects and generally play the same events.   

Thanks again for all the comments.  I will make a few responses to clear up a bit of the comments, but will need to do that later in the weekend.  Reality has always been part of our baseball discussions and that will continue.  I am a bit cramped for time, but want you to know that the answer was right there all the time.  We left the original program due to the reasons I stated and it was amicable, so we will not accept a position for the same reasons.  Since the team we played on last year is not an option, we are back on the market looking.  I will follow up with everyone that has graciously offered to have my son be evaluated for a position in their program.  Also, he placed 14th out of 20 in the conference dive championship.

 

Thanks again, this was very helpful!

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:
Originally Posted by 2forU:
I would like to know more about how you figure out your target level and I do not feel that we have had that honest type of assessment.  Anything you can offer on that would be great!
 
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

2foru,

Glancing back through the thread, I think there is one thing that is not covered... do you feel like your son has had a good honest specific assessment for which college division level he should be targeting?  This would be something beyond the positive comments of various coaches and players.  If not, it can be done in a number of different ways.  Let us know if that is still needed and you are unsure how to go about it. 

 

Honest assessment...

There are several ways to accomplish this and you can make it fit any budget. 

 

Search out a local respected college coach (can be any level) and ask if he would be willing to observe a workout and assess.  If you can't get a college coach, look for someone with similar qualifications.  It may be a respected travel coach, Large program HS coach who has a history of advancing players, recent high level players, etc.  Avoid using anyone affiliated with the programs your son is currently involved in.  There can be a bias, tendency or motivation to provide feedback that is more positive than neutral and honest. Ideally, it's someone who doesn't know your son or knows little of him.  Be very clear that you are after an honest eval for purposes of targeting the right schools and you respectfully have no interest in polite compliments.  As you are getting evaluation info, ask for specific aspects, pro and con, that are behind the recommendation (arm strength, athleticism, footwork, size, mobility, specific tools, etc.).  More than one of these evals is even better.

 

Then, ask people that are close to your son (current HS coach, club coach, etc.) and may be qualified to provide valuable insight as well.  Again, be clear that you are after honest assessment for purposes of proper targeting.  Discard any info based on intangibles such as heart, passion, gamer, etc.  While these will help your son in the journey, they are not things you can count on an RC to see, measure or value in a short window.

 

As you go to various camps, ask the same info.  Gather measurables (pop time, throwing velo, 60 time, bat exit velo, height/weight, etc.) from verifiable sources.  Check some threads here and elsewhere that allow you to compare son's measurables for a given position to a scale that breaks out desired numbers by D1, D2, etc.. 

 

Go watch games of different levels and try to honestly assess how your son would fit in.  Would he be a standout, middle of the pack or struggling to contribute?

 

Reach out to the coaches at camps he has attended where there was some interest.  Ask for their honest opinion and, again, ask for specifics (don't be hurt if they don't remember).  Take that opportunity to ask them specifically what they look for in a catcher.

 

If you are able to go to a PG Showcase (if budget allows), they are considered the gold standard. While they will not tell you specifically what level your son likely belongs, their rating system is quite consistent, they take and document measurables and they are universally trusted and followed by college coaches.  Once you have been rated, you are in their data base.  Then, you can compare with other players and see what level they end up.  You will also likely be among a group of very good players and get a better scope of what "good" really means.

 

At the minimum, get the unattached assessment/s and go to some games.  Once you have done some of these things, it will be much more clear where to put your efforts.  Of course, a HUGE factor is matching this with the academic/career goals of your son.  

I reached out to two people that I know that have a baseball background and shared game video.  I am acquainted with them through Facebook and asked for an honest opinion and to be brutally honest.  The first person caught in HS and college and took a team and won a championship at Cooperstown in the late 90's.  The second pitched for the Pittsburgh Pirates, Montreal Expos, New York Mets, Kansas City Royals, Chicago White Sox, and Oakland Athletics and a former pitching coach in the RedSox organization.  Do you feel that this would be a qualified evaluation (just to get started)?

Last edited by 2forU
Originally Posted by playball2011:

Was told by Summer coach he was one of best catchers, as well as one of best hitters. Teams do not let good hitters go. Something doesn't sound right here.

sorry, have to ask-what kind of parent were you? Did you question things, butt heads with coach, etc.?  

Imo why spend a lot of money playing for a team your son will not be happy on, esp. One w marginal talenT? Look around and see what else is out there, u still have time. 

Will he be starting catcher on varsity HS this yr? If not how much playing time do you see him getting? Will he play another position and hit?

He's a HS Jr., and needs to get serious About what colleges he would like to attend on academic level. See if those colleges have showcases and get there, esp if they are local. Get seen, and know his numbers. Some showcases all coaches from many diff levels. See which ones contact him.

good luck

I am not the psycho dad.  We have always wanted our kids to discuss any issues they have with the team directly with the coach.  Our HS coach will not talk to parents and we took that to travel, unless there was an injury, health concern, or asking for recommendations for training.

 

In HS, my son is one of three varsity catchers (1 sophomore and 2 Juniors), each is better than the others at some aspect of baseball than the others.  It is in the hands of the coach and his preference. My son played five games at 2b for HS when not catching in his sophomore year w/ no throwing or fielding errors. The coach likes the way all three hit (my son leads in OB%, walks, and average), so my son will play where the coach put him, even if that is on the bench.  All three of these kids are good friends.

Originally Posted by 2forU:
...

I reached out to two people that I know that have a baseball background and shared game video.  I am acquainted with them through Facebook and asked for an honest opinion and to be brutally honest.  The first person caught in HS and college and took a team and won a championship at Cooperstown in the late 90's.  The second pitched for the Pittsburgh Pirates, Montreal Expos, New York Mets, Kansas City Royals, Chicago White Sox, and Oakland Athletics and a former pitching coach in the RedSox organization.  Do you feel that this would be a qualified evaluation (just to get started)?

Heck yeah, that's a great start.  The only big event I know of in Cooperstown is a youth tourney so if that's the reference, it probably doesn't offer any merit on it's own but ex-college catcher - yup.  Ex-MLB pitcher and pitching coach - big yup.  The more recent, the better, but that' not to say old-timers can't offer a tremendous amount as well.  It's just that more recent guys are likely (not always) to have a better feel for the current college competitive landscape.

 

I thought of something else as well... Xan Barksdale has some excellent short youtube videos that can be accessed by searching "catching101".  Take some video of son's catching mechanics for framing, blocking, throw-downs,etc. and compare them to these.  You will be comparing with high-level movement and mechanics.  If nothing else, they are a great quick visual learning tool.

Last edited by cabbagedad
Originally Posted by 2forU:
Originally Posted by playball2011:

 

In HS, my son is one of three varsity catchers (1 sophomore and 2 Juniors), each is better than the others at some aspect of baseball than the others.  It is in the hands of the coach and his preference. My son played five games at 2b for HS when not catching in his sophomore year w/ no throwing or fielding errors. The coach likes the way all three hit (my son leads in OB%, walks, and average), so my son will play where the coach put him, even if that is on the bench.  All three of these kids are good friends.

2forU,

 

Lots of solid advice you have received in this thread.I would add that it's imperative for your son to become bigger,faster,and stronger.Get him into a baseball specific strength and conditioning program.Put 30lbs of muscle on that 5'11" frame to separate himself from all the others.

 

The ability to play multiple positions is a major plus for players aspiring to play beyond HS.Your son is playing some infield along with catching.Expand that to include outfield as well.

 

Keep working on his hitting.Throw BP to him every chance you get.If he has flaws in his mechanics find a hitting coach to fix it.Turn his hitting ability into a plus tool.

 

Good luck this spring !

 

 

Originally Posted by 2016baseballdad:
2forU, It is imperative that your son play showcase baseball this summer if he has any post high school aspirations. I am involved with a successful showcase organization in Richmond. We would be happy to give him an honest, free evaluation. With possibly discussing summer options post workout. If interested let me know.

I sent you a private message.

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