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I realize this is a year-old thread, but I thought I would share something that addresses this question directly, from an objective / computerized perspective.
Around the Horn mentioned MaxPreps above, and each year I think the "buy-in" to that service by HS coaches is a little better and more complete. In my son's division (KingCo 4A) all the teams use MaxPreps and upload results and stats after every game. After a cursory look-see through some of the other leagues, that seems to be mostly true throughout the state. Anyway MaxPreps has a state ranking without regard to divisions, as well as by division (which you can find down the left side of the state ranking link page).
These are OK, not great, IMO. I like that they are objective, and based purely on some mathematical algorithm based on strength of schedule and wins/losses against teams ranked either above or below you, but I don't like that it doesn't consider strength of league and division more directly than that. But in general, I like them better than the subjective polls.
Anyway, I got curious about how the MaxPreps polls are put together, and with a little digging found out they are complied by Ned Freeman, who runs CalPreps.com. If you dig through some of the links there (find Baseball, click National, find your state), you will find links to each state's rankings for baseball, and one of them is a link to "Compare Leagues." If you follow that link, you'll see that Freeman's Rankings rate the 3A Mid-Columbia the strongest league, followed by KingCo 4A, 4A Greater St. Helens, 4A Narrows, 2B Southeast, 4A SPSL-North, 2A/3A KingCo, 4A Mid-Columbia, 2B Central, and 2A CWAC (to round out the Top 10).
I do have a problem believing that a 2B league is better than the league that has produced 2 of the last 3 4A State Champions (and currently boast 3 of the top 4 teams in the 4A rankings, and 4 of the top 8). This system seems to me to penalize strong leagues that have good parity (like both KingCo 4A and 4A SPSL-North) who beat up on each other, in favor of lower-division leagues that have some parity coupled with a dominant team or two. Also, Freeman does collect information on divisional strength, and it is very clear that 4A is much, much stronger across the board than any other division, but strength of schedule does not seem to be weighted to reflect that fact.
But I digress - I offer the link because it is interesting to look at when trying to answer questions like the OP posited here....
That is very interesting way to look at the rankings. Thanks for the update and research. As districts are just around the corner we have a lot of usual suspects we will have to see how it plays out. Teams like Wenatchee can be dangerous , overall there seems to be a lot more parity this year we will see!
Curiosity question: What is the possibility/probability to blindly move to the great state of WA and find a coaching position? Meaning, is there an overabundance of coaches there or do the schools tend to struggle to fill positions with quality coaching?
Coach Mills, I think the problem is more finding a decent program that you would find fulfilling. I can only go off of Narrows 3A this year and Evergreen 2a the year before.
It seems like, at least in those two leagues and in the Olympia/Tacoma area there are teams that are really good and pretty competitive and other teams that are absolutely horrible. Our team (North Thurston HS) is one of the better teams and has only lost to the Narrows 3A champ in league play. Otherwise we have literally drubbed the daylights out of every other Narrows 3A team in the division. So it is essentially a two team division here with five other teams acting as fodder for the good teams. The third best team in the division was beaten 6-0, 7-1 and 10-0 by the top two teams in the division.
So I am guessing there are opportunities but it will be with programs that need a LOT of work. One of the 3A teams didn't even field a JV squad this year. Not ripping on them, these schools have priorities and baseball probably isn't one of them.
I think I can say with some assurance that there is more parity in KingCo, and probably the SPSL, at least at the 4A level. KingCo 2A/3A and Metro both have some outstanding teams, but also some of what Wklink is talking about (just fewer doormat teams). I don't know many of the other leagues well, but there tend to be pretty strong teams/leagues near most of the major cities in the state. The further out you go, the harder it is to connect with a good select program (at least without a lot of travel), and the better programs are full of kids who play summer ball while teams that don't have their fair share of year-round kids seem to struggle.
i will say this, though: teachers at the schools do not seem to have a headlock on coaching jobs, and there seems to be a decent amount of turnover (the bad news: that's probably because these jobs don't pay very well). There are good players here; I think a dedicated coach could make a name for himself here. Just be prepared to supplement your income with another job, and/or summer ball coaching.... Come on up!
I would love to! I looked up districts in and around the KingCo area. You are correct, a few haves and a few more have nots. Do you feel this has much to do with playing time (due to weather)? Or more to do with what you mentioned of lack of coaching commitment?Can you speak a little more about when season starts/finishes? I know WA has some great playing months in the summer, but maybe not much for fall ball would you say?
I would love to! I looked up districts in and around the KingCo area. You are correct, a few haves and a few more have nots. Do you feel this has much to do with playing time (due to weather)? Or more to do with what you mentioned of lack of coaching commitment?Can you speak a little more about when season starts/finishes? I know WA has some great playing months in the summer, but maybe not much for fall ball would you say?
The season starts ten days or so after a tryouts begin, which (at least in KingCo) is always right around March 1. Starts with some non-league gameconference ague games begin around mid-March. 20-game season ending right about now (we wrapped up yesterday); we played 15 league games and 5 non-league. Conference Playoffs always starts first week of May, last about a week, then the State Playoffs begin, which wrap up by Memorial Day. 15U and above summer leagues begin in earnestright after that, and go through most of July. The weather after Father's Day, and especially after the 4th of July, is ideal. August is more "showcase" season around here, with players going to teams they can try out for and be invited to participate on, both at the regional and national level. It is also the month players try out for the following season's summer ball/select teams. There are a few fall ball leagues, but not through schools (I believe the WIAA has a part in this; football is also pretty popular and it is hard to overlap fall baseball with football here). Scout team leagues, etc. They'll play through early-to-mid-October (the weather here is usually pretty good through September, and acceptable through mid-October.
it is hard to say why HS baseball doesn't have more of a foothold here. Some of it is the weather, which is less than ideal during the HS season. In Seattle, there aren't a lot of good fields, and some of the schools aren't built on the amount of land it takes to build a decent field. Many share fields with LL's, men's leagues, and because of parks and schools budget cuts, maintenance isn't what it used to be, and getting field time is difficult anto more expensive than it should be.. Coaches aren't paid what they should be, and many have to supplement that by coaching summer teams. Sports like lacrosse have become very popular in the NW and have taken some athletes out of the game. If you get too far outside of a reasonable travel range, select starts to dry up (and decent rec leagues too, to some degree, because they've lost competition in more populated areas to select), and schools populated in these areas just lack experience relative to areas well-serviced by select teams/leagues. There are lots of reasons.
There is opportunity, though, and good, persistent coaches who are personable and reach out to kids can probably build a lot out of a little.
I would love to! I looked up districts in and around the KingCo area. You are correct, a few haves and a few more have nots. Do you feel this has much to do with playing time (due to weather)? Or more to do with what you mentioned of lack of coaching commitment?Can you speak a little more about when season starts/finishes? I know WA has some great playing months in the summer, but maybe not much for fall ball would you say?
The season starts ten days or so after a tryouts begin, which (at least in KingCo) is always right around March 1. Starts with some non-league gameconference ague games begin around mid-March. 20-game season ending right about now (we wrapped up yesterday); we played 15 league games and 5 non-league. Conference Playoffs always starts first week of May, last about a week, then the State Playoffs begin, which wrap up by Memorial Day. 15U and above summer leagues begin in earnestright after that, and go through most of July. The weather after Father's Day, and especially after the 4th of July, is ideal. August is more "showcase" season around here, with players going to teams they can try out for and be invited to participate on, both at the regional and national level. It is also the month players try out for the following season's summer ball/select teams. There are a few fall ball leagues, but not through schools (I believe the WIAA has a part in this; football is also pretty popular and it is hard to overlap fall baseball with football here). Scout team leagues, etc. They'll play through early-to-mid-October (the weather here is usually pretty good through September, and acceptable through mid-October.
it is hard to say why HS baseball doesn't have more of a foothold here. Some of it is the weather, which is less than ideal during the HS season. In Seattle, there aren't a lot of good fields, and some of the schools aren't built on the amount of land it takes to build a decent field. Many share fields with LL's, men's leagues, and because of parks and schools budget cuts, maintenance isn't what it used to be, and getting field time is difficult anto more expensive than it should be.. Coaches aren't paid what they should be, and many have to supplement that by coaching summer teams. Sports like lacrosse have become very popular in the NW and have taken some athletes out of the game. If you get too far outside of a reasonable travel range, select starts to dry up (and decent rec leagues too, to some degree, because they've lost competition in more populated areas to select), and schools populated in these areas just lack experience relative to areas well-serviced by select teams/leagues. There are lots of reasons.
There is opportunity, though, and good, persistent coaches who are personable and reach out to kids can probably build a lot out of a little.
Great information! I will have to keep my eyes open for job openings. Maybe best bet is to get up there in the summer months and get involved with the summer league just to get my name out there?
I would love to! I looked up districts in and around the KingCo area. You are correct, a few haves and a few more have nots. Do you feel this has much to do with playing time (due to weather)? Or more to do with what you mentioned of lack of coaching commitment?Can you speak a little more about when season starts/finishes? I know WA has some great playing months in the summer, but maybe not much for fall ball would you say?
The season starts ten days or so after a tryouts begin, which (at least in KingCo) is always right around March 1. Starts with some non-league gameconference ague games begin around mid-March. 20-game season ending right about now (we wrapped up yesterday); we played 15 league games and 5 non-league. Conference Playoffs always starts first week of May, last about a week, then the State Playoffs begin, which wrap up by Memorial Day. 15U and above summer leagues begin in earnestright after that, and go through most of July. The weather after Father's Day, and especially after the 4th of July, is ideal. August is more "showcase" season around here, with players going to teams they can try out for and be invited to participate on, both at the regional and national level. It is also the month players try out for the following season's summer ball/select teams. There are a few fall ball leagues, but not through schools (I believe the WIAA has a part in this; football is also pretty popular and it is hard to overlap fall baseball with football here). Scout team leagues, etc. They'll play through early-to-mid-October (the weather here is usually pretty good through September, and acceptable through mid-October.
it is hard to say why HS baseball doesn't have more of a foothold here. Some of it is the weather, which is less than ideal during the HS season. In Seattle, there aren't a lot of good fields, and some of the schools aren't built on the amount of land it takes to build a decent field. Many share fields with LL's, men's leagues, and because of parks and schools budget cuts, maintenance isn't what it used to be, and getting field time is difficult anto more expensive than it should be.. Coaches aren't paid what they should be, and many have to supplement that by coaching summer teams. Sports like lacrosse have become very popular in the NW and have taken some athletes out of the game. If you get too far outside of a reasonable travel range, select starts to dry up (and decent rec leagues too, to some degree, because they've lost competition in more populated areas to select), and schools populated in these areas just lack experience relative to areas well-serviced by select teams/leagues. There are lots of reasons.
There is opportunity, though, and good, persistent coaches who are personable and reach out to kids can probably build a lot out of a little.
Great information! I will have to keep my eyes open for job openings. Maybe best bet is to get up there in the summer months and get involved with the summer league just to get my name out there?
Coach Mills:
If you get in touch with me and I feel I can recommend you, I can put you in touch with plenty of select teams and high schools that could use help.
