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A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
3and2Fastball posted:A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
Number 2.....Agree....100%.....and especially....don't do this:
His dad hopes his son might still land in the Pac-12. That would give him extra incentive when he faced UA.
Number 3....also agree 100%
#1 and #4.....agree somewhat as not all situations are the same.....BUT....in this kids case, it seems like someone, anyone....should have told the kid and the parents....don't risk it...get it fixed or rest it and be ready to head to AZ
3and2Fastball posted:A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
Great points:
Question, do you think he was in no man's land in terms of getting the NLI from Arizona?
Buckeye 2015 posted:3and2Fastball posted:A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
Number 2.....Agree....100%.....and especially....don't do this:
His dad hopes his son might still land in the Pac-12. That would give him extra incentive when he faced UA.
Number 3....also agree 100%
#1 and #4.....agree somewhat as not all situations are the same.....BUT....in this kids case, it seems like someone, anyone....should have told the kid and the parents....don't risk it...get it fixed or rest it and be ready to head to AZ
Do you think Arizona would have signed him with no NLI? Or should he have held off the High School season and wait for summer ball to show what he had in the tank?
So anyone in the recruiting process who doesn’t get it ...
The Arizona coach makes 500K per year plus incentives. He keeps his job and supports his family and lifestyle off this income. He’s not going to risk it with injured players he can walk away from.
Rule 1 about recruiting: It’s a business, then it’s a sport.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:3and2Fastball posted:A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
Number 2.....Agree....100%.....and especially....don't do this:
His dad hopes his son might still land in the Pac-12. That would give him extra incentive when he faced UA.
Number 3....also agree 100%
#1 and #4.....agree somewhat as not all situations are the same.....BUT....in this kids case, it seems like someone, anyone....should have told the kid and the parents....don't risk it...get it fixed or rest it and be ready to head to AZ
Do you think Arizona would have signed him with no NLI? Or should he have held off the High School season and wait for summer ball to show what he had in the tank?
I don't understand the question? There's no way to know....did throwing thru the injury make any difference? Would he have gotten back to 92-95 if he had stopped? Who knows....injuries happen. Some guys come back as good as they were before. Some don't. You can't "sign someone without an NLI". The NLI is the "signing". They offered him a chance as a walk on, so it seems like they at least were still interested enough to see if he could make it back. If he shows up at AZ next fall and is back to 92-94, the fact he is a walk on wouldn't have mattered....he'd have been throwing. He says "he felt better this summer"...but was at 86. Will another year get him back to 95? Again, who knows. If it does, he'll have plenty of opportunites. You have to wonder what, if any communication he had with AZ all summer? This is part of the problem with signing early. You get your heart set on a school and then something happens, in this case an injury. He is throwing 86 now.....AZ doesn't sign guys throwing 86 so he's not getting signed. It's a sucky situation but if he hadn't committed and waited until this summer....he would still be getting limited looks because of the 86. It's nobody's fault....AZ liked what they saw when he was in the low-mid 90's. They don't like it at 86.....as would be the case with most other P5 programs. Again, I'm not blaming either side....it happens.
I hear you, but after reading the article I don't think the PSA and father came off that bad (except for the "extra incentive" comment was cringeworthy LOL). They seemed pretty accepting and matter of fact about it. Still good advice not to talk with the press in general about this, but I have to admit that part of me does like articles of this type because it is a real life illustration that an oral commitment is not binding and that DI programs can and will pull an offer. That is, it happens.
The HC went about this the right way to give the PSA an opportunity to catch on elsewhere - not blaming him as he was trying to be forthright. Unfortunately, he may not look the best but the facts are that he pulled the offer and now other PSAs know that this is a possibility at AU.
Qhead posted:I hear you, but after reading the article I don't think the PSA and father came off that bad (except for the "extra incentive" comment was cringeworthy LOL). They seemed pretty accepting and matter of fact about it. Still good advice not to talk with the press in general about this, but I have to admit that part of me does like articles of this type because it is a real life illustration that an oral commitment is not binding and that DI programs can and will pull an offer. That is, it happens.
The HC went about this the right way to give the PSA an opportunity to catch on elsewhere - not blaming him as he was trying to be forthright. Unfortunately, he may not look the best but the facts are that he pulled the offer and now other PSAs know that this is a possibility at AU.
What is a PSA? I hope you don't mean a public service announcement....lol. That's not what the article was. The headline in the paper is misleading....and makes no mention of the injury. Seems like kind of a "shot" at U of A from the start. Making it sound like this is something unique at Arizona (or any other major college) shows a lack of knowledge on the way college recuriting works. It happens all the time, not just at Arizona. Any kid being recruited by a major college and committing as a sophomore (or earlier) knows this. If they don't, they really need to be more knowledgeable about the process BEFORE committing to a college as a 14 or 15 year old kid.
I for one thought the athlete's response was reasonable and while the comment about extra incentive was a bit much, it was pretty understandable. I bet that kid would dream of looking right at the HC as he shuts down his team for the win. Pipe dream for sure, but can't you empathize?
The whole "give the kid a chance to work out elsewhere" is mostly meaningless boilerplate coach-speak. In the end he did what he had to do, absolutely, but let's not award the HC for his high-mindedness and candor.
RJM posted:So anyone in the recruiting process who doesn’t get it ...
The Arizona coach makes 500K per year plus incentives. He keeps his job and supports his family and lifestyle off this income. He’s not going to risk it with injured players he can walk away from.
Rule 1 about recruiting: It’s a business, then it’s a sport.
Correction. He didn't pitch well this summer and they move on.
Buckeye 2015 posted:CollegebaseballInsights posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:3and2Fastball posted:A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
Number 2.....Agree....100%.....and especially....don't do this:
His dad hopes his son might still land in the Pac-12. That would give him extra incentive when he faced UA.
Number 3....also agree 100%
#1 and #4.....agree somewhat as not all situations are the same.....BUT....in this kids case, it seems like someone, anyone....should have told the kid and the parents....don't risk it...get it fixed or rest it and be ready to head to AZ
Do you think Arizona would have signed him with no NLI? Or should he have held off the High School season and wait for summer ball to show what he had in the tank?
I don't understand the question? There's no way to know....did throwing thru the injury make any difference? Would he have gotten back to 92-95 if he had stopped? Who knows....injuries happen. Some guys come back as good as they were before. Some don't. You can't "sign someone without an NLI". The NLI is the "signing". They offered him a chance as a walk on, so it seems like they at least were still interested enough to see if he could make it back. If he shows up at AZ next fall and is back to 92-94, the fact he is a walk on wouldn't have mattered....he'd have been throwing. He says "he felt better this summer"...but was at 86. Will another year get him back to 95? Again, who knows. If it does, he'll have plenty of opportunites. You have to wonder what, if any communication he had with AZ all summer? This is part of the problem with signing early. You get your heart set on a school and then something happens, in this case an injury. He is throwing 86 now.....AZ doesn't sign guys throwing 86 so he's not getting signed. It's a sucky situation but if he hadn't committed and waited until this summer....he would still be getting limited looks because of the 86. It's nobody's fault....AZ liked what they saw when he was in the low-mid 90's. They don't like it at 86.....as would be the case with most other P5 programs. Again, I'm not blaming either side....it happens.
Bottom line. He was at 86 this summer. AZ has moved on.
3and2Fastball posted:A few takeaways:
1) don't try to pitch through an injury
2) if you lose your commitment, don't go to the press to talk about it. That just isn't a good look. If the press contacts you, just say "no comment". And by all means Daddy shouldn't be commenting on the situation in the press, that's just really not a good look.
3) a good reminder that nothing is official until the NLI is signed
4) don't try to pitch, or play, through injury.
To be fair neither dad nor the kid slammed the college for pulling the offer and said they understand why they are concerned.
Probably shouldn't have commented at all but their comments were pretty classy and not taking shots.
But yes, definitely never try to play through an injury. Missed time sucks but better to be seen 2 games at full strength than 30 games impaired by injury.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:RJM posted:So anyone in the recruiting process who doesn’t get it ...
The Arizona coach makes 500K per year plus incentives. He keeps his job and supports his family and lifestyle off this income. He’s not going to risk it with injured players he can walk away from.
Rule 1 about recruiting: It’s a business, then it’s a sport.
Correction. He didn't pitch well this summer and they move on.
No he got injured, was 10+ mph slower than where he had been previously and walked 14 in 13 innings in HS baseball. It was a culmination of things - not so cut and dry that he didn't play well. Either way he's not the player he was expected to be. Even if he was only an 87 guy to begin with and committed to mid major - topping at 77/78 3 months before signing day is a huge problem. This might fly at schools where there isn't money attached but it definitely is not where they can make one phone call and get a healthy 90s guy. He would've been gone at any D1 for the most part, not just Arizona. If anything the coach did this kid a huge favor by letting him know now so he has more time. I don't think it was right for them to run to the papers.
"The whole "give the kid a chance to work out elsewhere" is mostly meaningless boilerplate coach-speak. In the end he did what he had to do, absolutely, but let's not award the HC for his high-mindedness and candor."
The coach did the kid a huge favor.
If the kid begins attending he loses a year and can't transfer and play immediately to D1.
The coach did the same thing at Nevada and UA. By being honest up front he allows the kids the chance to play; might upset parent and player, but better to be eligible to play than heading to a JUCO on the way back to D1.
The coach keeps touch with all his recruits on a constant basis.
Obviously, the mantra of pick the school regardless of baseball didn't happen here. If it did, he would be walking on.
PABaseball posted:CollegebaseballInsights posted:RJM posted:So anyone in the recruiting process who doesn’t get it ...
The Arizona coach makes 500K per year plus incentives. He keeps his job and supports his family and lifestyle off this income. He’s not going to risk it with injured players he can walk away from.
Rule 1 about recruiting: It’s a business, then it’s a sport.
Correction. He didn't pitch well this summer and they move on.
No he got injured, was 10+ mph slower than where he had been previously and walked 14 in 13 innings in HS baseball. It was a culmination of things - not so cut and dry that he didn't play well. Either way he's not the player he was expected to be. Even if he was only an 87 guy to begin with and committed to mid major - topping at 77/78 3 months before signing day is a huge problem. This might fly at schools where there isn't money attached but it definitely is not where they can make one phone call and get a healthy 90s guy. He would've been gone at any D1 for the most part, not just Arizona. If anything the coach did this kid a huge favor by letting him know now so he has more time. I don't think it was right for them to run to the papers.
Correction, as stated by RHN
Rule 1 about recruiting: It’s a business, then it’s a sport.
His velocity was down and the coach moved on.
PSA = Prospective Student Athlete. Sorry I use that meaning the recruit/athlete.
If the kid or his dad hadn't spoken there wouldn't have been a story. Apparently they decided a story worked in their favor instead of against.
Goosegg posted:"The whole "give the kid a chance to work out elsewhere" is mostly meaningless boilerplate coach-speak. In the end he did what he had to do, absolutely, but let's not award the HC for his high-mindedness and candor."
The coach did the kid a huge favor.
If the kid begins attending he loses a year and can't transfer and play immediately to D1.
The coach did the same thing at Nevada and UA. By being honest up front he allows the kids the chance to play; might upset parent and player, but better to be eligible to play than heading to a JUCO on the way back to D1.
The coach keeps touch with all his recruits on a constant basis.
Obviously, the mantra of pick the school regardless of baseball didn't happen here. If it did, he would be walking on.
Possibly, but it sounds like you're giving kudos to the coach for protecting his position (which is understandable) and for spouting the typical boilerplate coach-speech, which as I noted, is not praise worthy. As another poster stated, this really isn't very newsworthy. I agree that the player did not pick the school over baseball.
Not a huge fan of Jay Johnson. Didn’t like his coaching style when sons team played him when he was at Reno. I must say though, he gets the most from his players and has done a good job at AZ.
That said, he did this kid a favor. Why go where you know you are not one of their guys. Move on and find a better fit.
Regarding the press. Today’s world is all about social media and telling everyone your business. This is just another example. I sure once he lands somewhere else that there will be another social media blast.
I think this is standard at most D1 programs and there is a warning to the player/parent here. Committing before your junior year is too early for players.
The schools that are willing to commit rising 9th graders only see you as a commodity. There are other schools that wait to commit only rising juniors and seniors after you have more fully matured and have chance to visit the campus, talk to coaches, players, see the facilities - things you can only legitimately do after 9/1 of your junior year as of 2018. These schools also only see you as a commodity.
Recognize that you as a player are willing to trade your college social life, free-time, and potentially (but hopefully not) grades for an opportunity to play ball. But the coaches feed their families, pay for their homes, cars, etc. based on your productivity on the field, not in the classroom. I can't imagine my income and job security depended on the success of 18-22 year young men.
So your best option as a player is waiting to a reasonable point in time to commit after you have properly vetted schools, not after they have vetted you. There will always be lucky individuals that commit early and everything pans out at their dream D1 program. There are far more that commit early and make a mistake. I recently read an article that cited over 1500 D1 baseball players that have entered the transfer portal. This was heavily waited toward the SEC and ACC. This summer I saw headline after headline about former recruits leaving South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy, Auburn, LSU, etc. in droves. Heck, schools like Vandy, Arkansas, Geargia Tech, Florida are committing an average of 17-20+ players every year for a 35 man roster.
Doing baseball math at Arizona: Total Number of 2016-2018 HS commits = 39, but the total left on the roster from those years =21. This is pretty standard.
Knowing where you are physically your rising junior or senior year, what program/college suits you, and then committing is the way to go. This gives YOU the best chance for success.
Pedaldad posted:I think this is standard at most D1 programs and there is a warning to the player/parent here. Committing before your junior year is too early for players.
The schools that are willing to commit rising 9th graders only see you as a commodity. There are other schools that wait to commit only rising juniors and seniors after you have more fully matured and have chance to visit the campus, talk to coaches, players, see the facilities - things you can only legitimately do after 9/1 of your junior year as of 2018. These schools also only see you as a commodity.
Recognize that you as a player are willing to trade your college social life, free-time, and potentially (but hopefully not) grades for an opportunity to play ball. But the coaches feed their families, pay for their homes, cars, etc. based on your productivity on the field, not in the classroom. I can't imagine my income and job security depended on the success of 18-22 year young men.
So your best option as a player is waiting to a reasonable point in time to commit after you have properly vetted schools, not after they have vetted you. There will always be lucky individuals that commit early and everything pans out at their dream D1 program. There are far more that commit early and make a mistake. I recently read an article that cited over 1500 D1 baseball players that have entered the transfer portal. This was heavily waited toward the SEC and ACC. This summer I saw headline after headline about former recruits leaving South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy, Auburn, LSU, etc. in droves. Heck, schools like Vandy, Arkansas, Geargia Tech, Florida are committing an average of 17-20+ players every year for a 35 man roster.
Doing baseball math at Arizona: Total Number of 2016-2018 HS commits = 39, but the total left on the roster from those years =21. This is pretty standard.
Knowing where you are physically your rising junior or senior year, what program/college suits you, and then committing is the way to go. This gives YOU the best chance for success.
Understood. There were 20 student-athletes from the 2018 roster that weren't on the 2019 roster
10 were Seniors ( 3 drafted)
5 were Juniors that were Drafted
3 were Freshman
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CollegebaseballInsights posted:
Understood. There were 20 student-athletes from the 2018 roster that weren't on the 2019 roster
10 were Seniors ( 3 drafted)
5 were Juniors that were Drafted
3 were Freshman
I get what you are trying to say, but you missed the point. What I gave are the number of HS commits Arizona had between 2016 and 2018. All of these players (39 in all) would /still be eligible to be on the team for the 2019 season. Yes, a few were drafted - out of HS and a few were drafted this year, but is wasn't 18 of them. And this is the standard at most D! programs now.
The point is that the rate of turnover in College baseball is higher than any other sport and increases with the time you are there. So take as long as you can to learn as much as you can about a school and your chance for success there goes up.
But let's talk facts just at Arizona - exactly one of their 11 2016 HS recruits is left on the team for the 2020 roster. They didn't all get drafted and go pro. Arizona was the major reason for roster and scholarship limits a decade ago. They have the absolute lowest federal graduation rate of any of the D1 programs. You can look it up at the NCAA website; it was below 10% every year. That rate includes people who graduated from their first institution within 6 years of starting college. Arizona was notorious for bringing in 40 new Freshman on "books" scholarships or .10 scholarship and then holding an effective fall tryout.
Arizona already has 8 commits in the 2021 class (a lot less than some other competitive programs). By definition of the 2018 rule change, these kids can't yet (not until 9/1)meet the coaches, see the facilities, talk with current players, etc. You can not tell me that they (parents and players) have done the appropriate research to see if Arizona is for them. Again 1 HS baseball player from the 11 initial recruits in 2016 is still on the team. There are lots of reasons kids leave - draft, burnout, coaches, etc., but 91% didn't get to senior year. Maybe more 2021 kids committing to Arizona should wait until they get a chance to ask the coaches about that, or the other players about that - after 9/1 of their junior year.
Pedaldad posted:CollegebaseballInsights posted:
Understood. There were 20 student-athletes from the 2018 roster that weren't on the 2019 roster
10 were Seniors ( 3 drafted)
5 were Juniors that were Drafted
3 were Freshman
I get what you are trying to say, but you missed the point. What I gave are the number of HS commits Arizona had between 2016 and 2018. All of these players (39 in all) would /still be eligible to be on the team for the 2019 season. Yes, a few were drafted - out of HS and a few were drafted this year, but is wasn't 18 of them. And this is the standard at most D! programs now.
The point is that the rate of turnover in College baseball is higher than any other sport and increases with the time you are there. So take as long as you can to learn as much as you can about a school and your chance for success there goes up.
But let's talk facts just at Arizona - exactly one of their 11 2016 HS recruits is left on the team for the 2020 roster. They didn't all get drafted and go pro. Arizona was the major reason for roster and scholarship limits a decade ago. They have the absolute lowest federal graduation rate of any of the D1 programs. You can look it up at the NCAA website; it was below 10% every year. That rate includes people who graduated from their first institution within 6 years of starting college. Arizona was notorious for bringing in 40 new Freshman on "books" scholarships or .10 scholarship and then holding an effective fall tryout.
Arizona already has 8 commits in the 2021 class (a lot less than some other competitive programs). By definition of the 2018 rule change, these kids can't yet (not until 9/1)meet the coaches, see the facilities, talk with current players, etc. You can not tell me that they (parents and players) have done the appropriate research to see if Arizona is for them. Again 1 HS baseball player from the 11 initial recruits in 2016 is still on the team. There are lots of reasons kids leave - draft, burnout, coaches, etc., but 91% didn't get to senior year. Maybe more 2021 kids committing to Arizona should wait until they get a chance to ask the coaches about that, or the other players about that - after 9/1 of their junior year.
I understand, there were a couple of articles at the beginning of the year whereas they alluded to what you've articulated.
There are plenty of other schools (FIU comes to mind immediately) that bring in enormous freshman recruiting classes. Their 2020 class looks like it is about 17, 2021 already 11. Some school athletic directors set a cap on the number of student athletes a program can have competing in fall ball, I personally know one D1 program who caps it at 2 times the spring roster limit. Over-recruitment is a big factor in player churn, and the new D1 transfer rule allowing players not on athletic aid to enter the transfer portal and to go D1-D1 transfer without a sit out Year is going to have an impact on schools that offer zero or few athletic scholarships. That may be what is hitting those SEC schools mentioned earlier, that their guys who are walk ons are getting offers of athletic aid from other schools and deciding it is “time to dip.”
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:There are plenty of other schools (FIU comes to mind immediately) that bring in enormous freshman recruiting classes. Their 2020 class looks like it is about 17, 2021 already 11. Some school athletic directors set a cap on the number of student athletes a program can have competing in fall ball, I personally know one D1 program who caps it at 2 times the spring roster limit. Over-recruitment is a big factor in player churn, and the new D1 transfer rule allowing players not on athletic aid to enter the transfer portal and to go D1-D1 transfer without a sit out Year is going to have an impact on schools that offer zero or few athletic scholarships. That may be what is hitting those SEC schools mentioned earlier, that their guys who are walk ons are getting offers of athletic aid from other schools and deciding it is “time to dip.”
Which school is capping the fall roster at 70? D1s absolutely bring in more guys than necessary but if anything D1s have the lowest fall roster numbers. I don't know any D1s that will ever have more than 40/45. There are the scholarship guys, then a handful of no $ preferred walk ons that have to battle it out with the walk ons who made the roster last year. Still, they aren't bringing in that many non scholarship guys to the point where it would ever get to 50+ let alone 70. Jucos and D3s have a bigger problem with roster sizes and cuts as they don't have a roster cap.
The schools with 17/18 kids in the recruiting classes are also the schools losing 3-6 high schoolers to the draft each year and another 5-12 rostered guys. They get a bad wrap because it doesn't work out for one or two recruits each year but when you're competing for a CWS each year it makes sense.
The rule about visiting didn't go into effect until last year, so most of the kids probably have already done their visits. We visited during sophomore year before the rule went into place. They just lost their RC over the summer to Cal State Fullerton.
All said and done, I just don't understand why they haven't gone to a system where you sign an NLI when they offer and you accept, regardless of age. That levels the playing field.
They are not going to have younger guys sign NLI because the NCAA would not want to deal with all the kids who wanted out of them. I also think there would be very few guys who would actually sign them before their senior year. Again, you are not required to sign an NLI but strongly encouraged. I don't see how it levels the playing field.
baseballhs posted:The rule about visiting didn't go into effect until last year, so most of the kids probably have already done their visits. We visited during sophomore year before the rule went into place. They just lost their RC over the summer to Cal State Fullerton.
All said and done, I just don't understand why they haven't gone to a system where you sign an NLI when they offer and you accept, regardless of age. That levels the playing field.
I'm hearing firsthand many examples of schools either ignoring or getting around the unofficial visit rules. I don't think it's appreciably changed anything related to early recruiting.
The current NLI system favors coaches. Less risk for them. The NCAA is run by university presidents for the most part... who pay their coaches a lot of money, and usually want to keep those coaches happy. The student athlete, much less the potential student athlete, has very little representation in this process.
PitchingFan posted:They are not going to have younger guys sign NLI because the NCAA would not want to deal with all the kids who wanted out of them. I also think there would be very few guys who would actually sign them before their senior year. Again, you are not required to sign an NLI but strongly encouraged. I don't see how it levels the playing field.
It requires the schools to have a more formal commitment to a player. Players are not recruited after verbally committing. Coaches keep recruiting. No risk for schools. Coaches wouldn’t offer if they weren’t sure.probably less early committing.
But they can pull NLI at any time. So there is still no risk for the schools. NLI is only binding on the player and not on the schools. I think the ultimate answer is that when they make an offer they have to put it in writing and it is binding on both parties. I think the only exceptions should be if a player is injured to a certain degree (not able to fulfill agreement by an independent doctor) or I also believe a player should be able to get out if the HC leaves before they start school. The contract should be binding on both parties. This would slow down early commitments on both sides.
How can they pull an NLI at any time? I read that they can pull it if you aren't eligible via NCAA or if you don't get into the school and a few other reasons, but they were only for cause.
If you read these boards long enough (I've been a semi-regular for 5-6 years or more), you hear some first- and plenty of second-hand accounts of prospects getting stiffed (replace with verb of choice) by HCs. One-sided to be sure, but I expect most such accounts are mostly accurate.
A common theme on these boards is, no matter how onerous the "jobbing," the school HC shall remain nameless for fear of additional ramifications from other HCs who "know everything and everybody" (yes I'm exaggerating).
Don't lose the bigger point here which is to pick the education and not the coach. If some of you will remember something similar happened to my daughter at about this time frame. Her offer wasn't taken away but was cut from 60% to 40%. I can remember how emotional my daughter got and how angry I became on the phone talking to the coach who had gone around telling everyone in his conference that he had my daughter in the fold. We took unofficial visits and a couple of official visits where we were asked why we were there if that coach had her locked up. In the end, my daughter was so hurt that she asked to sign elsewhere.
I think that the motivation factor mentioned by the dad can actually have a negative effect and he should keep that in mind if he thinks about pushing that. My daughter hit the big fly in the first game she played against that coach/team and emotionally she did not handle it well. As mentioned, recruitment is a business BUT the difference here is how emotionally attached young student athletes become with coaching staffs that are constantly making contacts and building relationships. IMO, the young man handled himself pretty darn well knowing that he has been through this.
CoachB25 posted:Don't lose the bigger point here which is to pick the education and not the coach. If some of you will remember something similar happened to my daughter at about this time frame. Her offer wasn't taken away but was cut from 60% to 40%. I can remember how emotional my daughter got and how angry I became on the phone talking to the coach who had gone around telling everyone in his conference that he had my daughter in the fold. We took unofficial visits and a couple of official visits where we were asked why we were there if that coach had her locked up. In the end, my daughter was so hurt that she asked to sign elsewhere.
I think that the motivation factor mentioned by the dad can actually have a negative effect and he should keep that in mind if he thinks about pushing that. My daughter hit the big fly in the first game she played against that coach/team and emotionally she did not handle it well. As mentioned, recruitment is a business BUT the difference here is how emotionally attached young student athletes become with coaching staffs that are constantly making contacts and building relationships. IMO, the young man handled himself pretty darn well knowing that he has been through this.
Thanks for sharing. In a subtle way, the takeaway as student-athletes and parents, the amount of time spent perfecting one's skill creates a perception of what a person believes to be their value (market rate). After the value (market rate) is established and secured with a commitment, there is a relief that said value will remain the same.
Life lesson, is your perceived value can change at anytime.
PitchingFan posted:They are not going to have younger guys sign NLI because the NCAA would not want to deal with all the kids who wanted out of them. I also think there would be very few guys who would actually sign them before their senior year. Again, you are not required to sign an NLI but strongly encouraged. I don't see how it levels the playing field.
I also believe that if a student athlete is signing a binding agreement as a sophomore or Junior, it would hopefully make them think long and hard about their decision. Ultimately, a majority of athletes are still making their verbal committments in the summer after their Junior year, which is the right/best time for both the schools and the athletes. Early committments, in my opinion, are not as big of a problem as it appears. Yes, there are the cautionary tales each year of a handful who lose offers or whose offers are reduced, but those situations often are due to other factors at play (drafted rostered players deciding not to sign contracts, players not getting drafted that the school thought they would, etc), more than the high school player not developing as the college coach would have liked.
PABaseball posted:collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:There are plenty of other schools (FIU comes to mind immediately) that bring in enormous freshman recruiting classes. Their 2020 class looks like it is about 17, 2021 already 11. Some school athletic directors set a cap on the number of student athletes a program can have competing in fall ball, I personally know one D1 program who caps it at 2 times the spring roster limit. Over-recruitment is a big factor in player churn, and the new D1 transfer rule allowing players not on athletic aid to enter the transfer portal and to go D1-D1 transfer without a sit out Year is going to have an impact on schools that offer zero or few athletic scholarships. That may be what is hitting those SEC schools mentioned earlier, that their guys who are walk ons are getting offers of athletic aid from other schools and deciding it is “time to dip.”
Which school is capping the fall roster at 70? D1s absolutely bring in more guys than necessary but if anything D1s have the lowest fall roster numbers. I don't know any D1s that will ever have more than 40/45. There are the scholarship guys, then a handful of no $ preferred walk ons that have to battle it out with the walk ons who made the roster last year. Still, they aren't bringing in that many non scholarship guys to the point where it would ever get to 50+ let alone 70. Jucos and D3s have a bigger problem with roster sizes and cuts as they don't have a roster cap.
The schools with 17/18 kids in the recruiting classes are also the schools losing 3-6 high schoolers to the draft each year and another 5-12 rostered guys. They get a bad wrap because it doesn't work out for one or two recruits each year but when you're competing for a CWS each year it makes sense.
Are you basing your 40-45 on fall rosters posted online? I am basing the 70 on what the coach is telling recruit parents. That’s not to say that they actually bring in that many in the fall, but the AD is giving them the latitude to do that.
Regarding drafted player losses, this year FIU had 4 rostered players drafted and had about 9 who were serious draft prospects. Of the 4 drafted, assume all were on scholarship. Let’s also assume 2-3/4 sign. That means 6-7 players that coach thought might be leaving (assuming all still had eligibility) would likely be returning. That has a trickle down effect to the incoming recruited class. So schools like FIU over-recruit because of those factors. For anyone going into a situation like that, they need to have this in the back of their mind.
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:Regarding drafted player losses, this year FIU had 4 rostered players drafted and had about 9 who were serious draft prospects. Of the 4 drafted, assume all were on scholarship. Let’s also assume 2-3/4 sign. That means 6-7 players that coach thought might be leaving (assuming all still had eligibility) would likely be returning. That has a trickle down effect to the incoming recruited class. So schools like FIU over-recruit because of those factors. For anyone going into a situation like that, they need to have this in the back of their mind.
Honestly, FIU is kind of a mystery. They get a ton of recruits and they get them young. They get a decent amount of draft prospects to commit but for every 18/19 kid recruiting class they have been extremely average in a conference that isn't all that strong. I don't know how they are getting all these kids or why they're committing there. Maybe it has something to do with a low threshold for academic money to be awarded or maybe they are generous with aid/scholarships but it is a formula that I have never really been able to figure out.
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:PitchingFan posted:They are not going to have younger guys sign NLI because the NCAA would not want to deal with all the kids who wanted out of them. I also think there would be very few guys who would actually sign them before their senior year. Again, you are not required to sign an NLI but strongly encouraged. I don't see how it levels the playing field.
I also believe that if a student athlete is signing a binding agreement as a sophomore or Junior, it would hopefully make them think long and hard about their decision. Ultimately, a majority of athletes are still making their verbal committments in the summer after their Junior year, which is the right/best time for both the schools and the athletes. Early committments, in my opinion, are not as big of a problem as it appears. Yes, there are the cautionary tales each year of a handful who lose offers or whose offers are reduced, but those situations often are due to other factors at play (drafted rostered players deciding not to sign contracts, players not getting drafted that the school thought they would, etc), more than the high school player not developing as the college coach would have liked.
Seems like trying to make sense out of nonsense. A student-athlete thinking long and hard at the age of (14 - 16) is a oxymoron. Like Odyssey going after the golden fleece. In my humble opinion, players should be playing, competing and enjoying freshman and sophomore years of high school. Do your research, visit some schools, etc. The summer before one's junior year, ok, let's ramp it up with some serious dialog (note, I understand this is not today's world).
Note, let's not forget How Kids’ Sports Became a $15 Billion Industry
CollegebaseballInsights posted:collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:PitchingFan posted:They are not going to have younger guys sign NLI because the NCAA would not want to deal with all the kids who wanted out of them. I also think there would be very few guys who would actually sign them before their senior year. Again, you are not required to sign an NLI but strongly encouraged. I don't see how it levels the playing field.
I also believe that if a student athlete is signing a binding agreement as a sophomore or Junior, it would hopefully make them think long and hard about their decision. Ultimately, a majority of athletes are still making their verbal committments in the summer after their Junior year, which is the right/best time for both the schools and the athletes. Early committments, in my opinion, are not as big of a problem as it appears. Yes, there are the cautionary tales each year of a handful who lose offers or whose offers are reduced, but those situations often are due to other factors at play (drafted rostered players deciding not to sign contracts, players not getting drafted that the school thought they would, etc), more than the high school player not developing as the college coach would have liked.
Seems like trying to make sense out of nonsense. A student-athlete thinking long and hard at the age of (14 - 16) is a oxymoron. Like Odyssey going after the golden fleece. In my humble opinion, players should be playing, competing and enjoying freshman and sophomore years of high school. Do your research, visit some schools, etc. The summer before one's junior year, ok, let's ramp it up with some serious dialog (note, I understand this is not today's world).
Note, let's not forget How Kids’ Sports Became a $15 Billion Industry
It’s not today’s world because the most competitive schools have committed all their pitchers and a lot of their position players by end of summer rising junior year for the class. Not all, but most. The top 15 recruiting classes for 2021 have committed between 10-17 kids each. It’s about the same through top 25.