So here's a dreaded playing time hypothetical. Say a kid wants to talk to his coach about playing time. And in the conversation, coach says "well little Johnny, who should I sit so you can play?" (i.e.; Our basketball coach mentions this in his parent meeting). Now kids being kids, they will certainly have their opinions, and may not be so diplomatic. So do you answer the question truthfully? Or dodge it like a politician on the hot seat?
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Here's how I'd guide my son to answer, respectfully.
I believe my job is to work as hard as I can to prepare to be a contributor during game time. The decision of who plays and sits is your job as a coach. I believe I've done my job. If you don't think I have, please let me know what else I need to do to convince you I should be playing.
Leave it at that. I think for coaches to take the "who would you sit" approach is a chicken$h!t coward's way to try and intimidate a kid away from the topic.
I would hope the "who would you sit" question is a rhetorical one and is meant to hang out their briefly for effect. If I was a coach and not playing a particular kid as much as he wanted, the last thing I would want to hear is his opinion on who I incorrectly played ahead of him. The kid may have his argument ready with his facts, but calling out the coach probably won't get him playing time. Keep it "big picture" and have him ask for some specifics as to where he might be falling just short (for instance, offense versus defense). Try to get some commitment from the coach as it relates to that kid's performance in practice versus other kids' performance during games to maybe help define the gap and be able to identify as it possibly widens and contracts.
As a coach, I don't use it but I don't necessarily think it's chicken$hit. Depends on context. I could see it as forcing the player to analyze whether he is actually better than those starting in the positions he plays and adding meaningful relevance. It gives him a barometer.
Most schools have this rule where you (coach) are not supposed to talk to any player or parent about other players when discussing playing time. I get the spirit of the law but lets be real. Yeah, the kid should focus on himself and being the best he can be. I always preach that. But the fact of the matter is, he is competing with a few other specific kids for a specific position or two. The fact is, I am comparing him to those other kids every time I write the line up. I know it. He knows it.
Most kids have pretty well thought-out ideas in their minds of which starter they think they are better than, right or wrong. If I were advising a kid how to answer that question, I would tell him to go ahead and answer honestly but reply with "team first" in mind. And speak in terms of position, not player name. "Coach, I think I can help the team win more games because I think I can pick balls in the dirt better at first base, cover bunts better, and I think I can produce more at the plate against better competition. Of course, I will fully support whoever you put there but I would really love a chance to prove myself as the guy that can help the team the most there. Can you tell me what part of my game is falling short that is keeping me from getting that chance so I can work on it harder?" This will likely initiate some helpful detailed dialog. But the kid has to be willing to actively listen and then act on the feedback.
cabbagedad posted:As a coach, I don't use it but I don't necessarily think it's chicken$hit. Depends on context. I could see it as forcing the player to analyze whether he is actually better than those starting in the positions he plays and adding meaningful relevance. It gives him a barometer.
Most schools have this rule where you (coach) are not supposed to talk to any player or parent about other players when discussing playing time. I get the spirit of the law but lets be real. Yeah, the kid should focus on himself and being the best he can be. I always preach that. But the fact of the matter is, he is competing with a few other specific kids for a specific position or two. The fact is, I am comparing him to those other kids every time I write the line up. I know it. He knows it.
Most kids have pretty well thought-out ideas in their minds of which starter they think they are better than, right or wrong. If I were advising a kid how to answer that question, I would tell him to go ahead and answer honestly but reply with "team first" in mind. And speak in terms of position, not player name. "Coach, I think I can help the team win more games because I think I can pick balls in the dirt better at first base, cover bunts better, and I think I can produce more at the plate against better competition. Of course, I will fully support whoever you put there but I would really love a chance to prove myself as the guy that can help the team the most there. Can you tell me what part of my game is falling short that is keeping me from getting that chance so I can work on it harder?" This will likely initiate some helpful detailed dialog. But the kid has to be willing to actively listen and then act on the feedback.
"But the kid has to be willing to actively listen and then act on the feedback." As a Varsity HC this one is where the train comes off the tracks; most players simply don't know how to respond to honest feedback. We give our guys bi-weekly one-on-one evals/feedback consisting of what they are doing well, what needs attention, and how to keep their playing time where it is or what to do to get more.
The question posed here; I reserve for the parent.
My son had this same scenario...my son is a unique dude but he was honest...not smart, but honest... and it didn't go well. Of course he didn't ask dads opinion before doing it and wouldn't have listened to me anyway but whatever you do...make sure its not the coaches close family member that you say you should be starting in front of.
Last two responses are spot on! I am actually going to steal your one-on-one eval/feedback approach with my varsity football players next season. Thanks!
I typically would only pose that particular question to a parent, as they generally have been told no less than 10 times we're not going to talk about playing time, so when they do, and typically in a confrontational, I have no problem throwing that at them.
But I have no problem comparing the kid I'm talking to to the starter he's competing with, as that's the only way to have an honest dialogue.
Our kids are basically told to phrase it as "what do I need to work on to get more playing time/start/etc.?" Right now I have a 1b who is weak defensively but can swing it some. Then I have 2 other 1b who are great defensively but need to be DH'd for. So when they ask, I have to talk about the other 1b for comparison's sake. It's the only way to be direct and honest to me.
I would agree that I wouldn't advise him to name names, but I would do as Cabbage said and list my positive attributes that I bring to the team. I also would ask for an honest evaluation of what I can work on/do better to earn my spot.
Throwing your teammates under the bus in order to win the spot, won't likely yield good results. Another post on the site explains this well - "Dim his light to brighten yours."
So let me change the conversation a bit. I have been debating having a conversation with son's coach. This year was a train wreck. Team made 100 errors in the field in a 31 game season and pitchers walked 108 batters in 209 innings (one pitcher only walked 4 in 47 2/3 so the others walked 104 in 161 1/3). I want to know what his plans are to make the team better next year. By the end of the year, when games counted the most, he had lost the team.
There are other issues like: No live BP only machine. No live fungos, only shot from machine. You get the idea.
Honestly, I am giving him a chance to convince me not to talk to the administration about the need for a change in coaches. He is a nice guy. He does a great job keeping the field in great shape. He just isn't a good baseball coach.
DadintheBox posted:So let me change the conversation a bit. I have been debating having a conversation with son's coach. This year was a train wreck. Team made 100 errors in the field in a 31 game season and pitchers walked 108 batters in 209 innings (one pitcher only walked 4 in 47 2/3 so the others walked 104 in 161 1/3). I want to know what his plans are to make the team better next year. By the end of the year, when games counted the most, he had lost the team.
There are other issues like: No live BP only machine. No live fungos, only shot from machine. You get the idea.
Honestly, I am giving him a chance to convince me not to talk to the administration about the need for a change in coaches. He is a nice guy. He does a great job keeping the field in great shape. He just isn't a good baseball coach.
This answer is not going to go over well but...this is what is incredibly wrong with HS sports. I've been both a coach and a parent. As a coach I don't owe you or any parent an answer to your above question; I am only responsible to my boss. Coaches lose teams it happens in pro sports just as in HS -- but often times in HS that level of dis-function can be directly attributable to what is happening outside the fence (e.g. people openly undermining the coach). The numbers you cite above are not the result of just one person it's collective in nature. As a parent I always felt, if my kid wasn't being abused physically or emotionally and his health wasn't being put at risk I had no reason to approach a coach.
DadintheBox posted:So let me change the conversation a bit. I have been debating having a conversation with son's coach. This year was a train wreck. Team made 100 errors in the field in a 31 game season and pitchers walked 108 batters in 209 innings (one pitcher only walked 4 in 47 2/3 so the others walked 104 in 161 1/3). I want to know what his plans are to make the team better next year. By the end of the year, when games counted the most, he had lost the team.
There are other issues like: No live BP only machine. No live fungos, only shot from machine. You get the idea.
Honestly, I am giving him a chance to convince me not to talk to the administration about the need for a change in coaches. He is a nice guy. He does a great job keeping the field in great shape. He just isn't a good baseball coach.
Get certified to teach/coach (whatever is applicable in your area) and get a job as a HS coach. Build a program that just beats the snot out of his every year, and then when he quits due to the embarrassment of your superior coaching ability, apply for that job and get it. Win state. Repeat.
Orrrrrrrrrr maybe rather than whining and complaining and making excuses for the kids (probably especially yours) offer to HELP. Tell him you'd love to throw BP for them one day. You'd love to hit fungoes. Or volunteer to coach and headup the summer/offseason program and improve them that way. Arrange times for the kids to meet up at the local cages or field in the summer to work them out. INVEST yourself in the program for the benefit of ALL of the kids.
There are a million ways to move things in a positive direction and teach your son that excuses and going behind someone's back demanding to get your way is cowardly.
This is a really tough question. I probably would dodge the question to avoid throwing your teammate under the bus. My brother is batting .429 and has the second most hits on the team but is coming off the bench while the kid in front of him is batting .003. Personally, my brother is a great outfielder and one of the kids in front of him continuously drops routine fly balls. What do you guys think he should do? Should I bring it up to coach myself?
You dodge the question by not having the conversation in the first place.
I've never heard of a player negotiating his way into the lineup, and I wouldn't encourage players to try to blaze that trail.
Playing decisions by coaches are like ball-strike calls by umpires: they are judgment calls that do not require explanation and are not subject to negotiation. Half the people won't like them. Some will complain about them. None will change them.
Asking a coach to defend his lineup decisions is unfair because those decisions are based on confidential assessments of other players' abilities and personalities. All a player needs to know is that the coach is using the lineup he believes is best for the team.
The conversation is bound to go wrong.
Whatever else happens, I can guarantee the coach will not walk away from the conversation thinking, "Hmmm, Johnny raised some excellent points. Maybe I should stick him in the 3 hole."
However, there is an excellent chance he'll walk away thinking the player is selfish, impatient, a clubhouse lawyer, or clueless about the weaknesses in his game.
I also advise players against asking coaches where they need to improve in order to get some playing time. If you really don't know, ask your teammates instead. They do know, and they'll be glad to tell you where you suck.
Coaches know which players want to play. Make it obvious from your effort and attitude.
You're not going to change any minds by talking about it.
I think you'll find that questioning the coach will not go over well. Many coaches I've known have a bit of an ego, to put it nicely, including myself. They have their reasons for doing what they are doing. Whether they make sense to you isn't really important to them. Much of the time they see things the way they want to see them, right or wrong. Any attempt to offer an alternative perspective, no matter how well intended, is usually seen as an affront to their ability as a coach. Not all coaches are like this. I've had experiences with coaches who were glad to listen and were receptive to an outside view. But in general, I would hesitate to have any contact, especially if there is more of this coach, or his friends, in your future.
Swampboy posted:You dodge the question by not having the conversation in the first place.
I've never heard of a player negotiating his way into the lineup, and I wouldn't encourage players to try to blaze that trail.
Playing decisions by coaches are like ball-strike calls by umpires: they are judgment calls that do not require explanation and are not subject to negotiation. Half the people won't like them. Some will complain about them. None will change them.
Asking a coach to defend his lineup decisions is unfair because those decisions are based on confidential assessments of other players' abilities and personalities. All a player needs to know is that the coach is using the lineup he believes is best for the team.
The conversation is bound to go wrong.
Whatever else happens, I can guarantee the coach will not walk away from the conversation thinking, "Hmmm, Johnny raised some excellent points. Maybe I should stick him in the 3 hole."
However, there is an excellent chance he'll walk away thinking the player is selfish, impatient, a clubhouse lawyer, or clueless about the weaknesses in his game.
I also advise players against asking coaches where they need to improve in order to get some playing time. If you really don't know, ask your teammates instead. They do know, and they'll be glad to tell you where you suck.
Coaches know which players want to play. Make it obvious from your effort and attitude.
You're not going to change any minds by talking about it.
Some good responses.
If someone came to me with that scenerio as a coach, I probably would never play that player again and hope he will go find someplace else to find a home.
If a parent comes to me with the same question, I would be hoping that both the parent and his player will go away.
As far as being upset that things didnt go well and the program needs assistance and about how he is going to improve the program, offer your assistance in helping, but understand that most coaches dont need your input unless asked for it.
Consider this a good practice for the next level.
Hammer823 posted:I think you'll find that questioning the coach will not go over well. Many coaches I've known have a bit of an ego, to put it nicely, including myself. They have their reasons for doing what they are doing. Whether they make sense to you isn't really important to them. Much of the time they see things how they want to see them, right or wrong. Any attempt to offer an alternative perspective, no matter how well intended, is usually seen as an affront to their ability as a coach. Not all coaches are like this. I've had experiences with coaches who were glad to listen and were receptive to an outside view. But in general, I would hesitate to have any contact, especially if there is more of this coach, or his friends, in your future.
Very well put.
No parent is going to win that argument no matter what. For your own sanity you should just accept that you should only debate things with a coach that endanger a players health and keep quiet about the rest.
Swampboy posted:...
Asking a coach to defend his lineup decisions is unfair because those decisions are based on confidential assessments of other players' abilities and personalities. All a player needs to know is that the coach is using the lineup he believes is best for the team.
The conversation is bound to go wrong.
Whatever else happens, I can guarantee the coach will not walk away from the conversation thinking, "Hmmm, Johnny raised some excellent points. Maybe I should stick him in the 3 hole."
However, there is an excellent chance he'll walk away thinking the player is selfish, impatient, a clubhouse lawyer, or clueless about the weaknesses in his game.
I also advise players against asking coaches where they need to improve in order to get some playing time. If you really don't know, ask your teammates instead. They do know, and they'll be glad to tell you where you suck.
Coaches know which players want to play. Make it obvious from your effort and attitude.
You're not going to change any minds by talking about it.
Great post. Love the comment about asking other players. That is solid truth. And the last sentence is another gem.
Here's what I see play out time and time again... the player actually has some awareness that he doesn't quite stack up to the guy playing in front of him. But, mom or dad are sure he is a better player and continue to "encourage" player to talk to the coach about how to earn more PT. Player, starting to buy a little of the mom/dad Kool Aid and/or feeling a bit obligated to have that discussion with coach, makes an effort to do so. Coach tells him where his deficiencies are and what he needs to work on and that it will require extra time and effort to close the gap. Player says "yes, sir, I'll do it". Player asks for extra reps once or twice, tries to put on his best attitude face for the next few practices, doesn't see immediate results and returns to his normal behavior and effort pattern.
Now every once in a great while, the kid will actually show enough to earn an opportunity. Most often, that opportunity was going to come anyway via non-league games, inter-squads, blowout wins/losses, etc. The whole key is what he does with it when he gets it. And, having a realistic perspective of his opportunistic performance. Was it hitting well against the opponents' #7 guy because it was a blowout or the last game of a long tourney? Or was it really showing something?
Really, though, the player earns his spot in the pecking order by what he does consistently on a day-in, day-out basis at practice, displaying his actual skill set, attitude and effort. Yeah, there are the occasional "gamers" and practice standouts but almost always, a player is a player.. every day.
Ja'Crispy posted:Hammer823 posted:I think you'll find that questioning the coach will not go over well. Many coaches I've known have a bit of an ego, to put it nicely, including myself. They have their reasons for doing what they are doing. Whether they make sense to you isn't really important to them. Much of the time they see things how they want to see them, right or wrong. Any attempt to offer an alternative perspective, no matter how well intended, is usually seen as an affront to their ability as a coach. Not all coaches are like this. I've had experiences with coaches who were glad to listen and were receptive to an outside view. But in general, I would hesitate to have any contact, especially if there is more of this coach, or his friends, in your future.
Very well put.
No parent is going to win that argument no matter what. For your own sanity you should just accept that you should only debate things with a coach that endanger a players health and keep quiet about the rest.
That is exactly the debate I have been having in my head. Thanks for confirming what my gut was telling me.
Redsdad posted:This answer is not going to go over well but...this is what is incredibly wrong with HS sports. I've been both a coach and a parent. As a coach I don't owe you or any parent an answer to your above question; I am only responsible to my boss. Coaches lose teams it happens in pro sports just as in HS -- but often times in HS that level of dis-function can be directly attributable to what is happening outside the fence (e.g. people openly undermining the coach). The numbers you cite above are not the result of just one person it's collective in nature. As a parent I always felt, if my kid wasn't being abused physically or emotionally and his health wasn't being put at risk I had no reason to approach a coach.
It went over just fine. Thanks for the feedback.
My son's HS coach took the "chicken salad" question to a whole 'nother level.
Junior year, son texts coach asking him to call, with the intent of setting up an appointment to meet with him to ask what he needed to do to get more opportunities. When Coach calls, before soncould even say what he wanted to talk about, Coach told him that before he would meet with him, son had to text him a ranking of all nine pitchers on the team, including himself. He later followed up with a text saying that the list should include a "sentence or two" about each other pitcher explaining why he ranked them higher or lower than himself. To make matters worse, the coach's son was one of the pitchers.
I advised son as follows:
a) This was a trap. There was no way to craft a "winning" answer to the question. Anything he said was going to be used against him. The goal was damage control, especially since this had to be in writing .
b) Be honest in your rankings, but base on each pitcher's "best day", not their worst.
c) Only list the ones you rank ahead of you.
d) Do not say anything negative about any teammates. Complement the ones ranked above you, but say nothing about the ones ranked below you. Use a description of your own strengths as a blanket justification for ranking yourself above them.
e) Let the coach know that the reason you aren't following his instructions explicitly is because these are your teammates and friends and you don't feel comfortable criticizing them.
He closed the text saying that this was his honest opinion and he would like a chance to prove it.
Coach's response was that son was "not realistic in your self assessment" and that he had "shown nothing close to how you describe yourself." Told him that he would "hear the truth from me tomorrow."
Advised son to explain the basis for the assessment, which included feedback from two pitchers with a combined 12 years MLB service, various college coaches at camps, etc., and the fact that he was the only pitcher that had competed with a national-level travel team. Told him that if he didn't try to justify his high self-ranking with the feedback from other baseball experts then his ranking would sound like simply the result of arrogance and hubris.
Coach responded with "You are paying all of them money [ which wasn't actually true]. You think they [sic] going to sit there and tell you the honest truth?..."
The meeting the next day went worse. Coach asked son if he really believed he was the ____ best pitcher on the team, and begrudgingly complemented him on sticking to his guns. But then it was about 30 minutes of the head coach berating him with "the truth" in front of the entire coaching staff (whom the coach invited).
Eventually son was finally allowed to ask the only question he wanted to discuss: "What do I need to do to earn more opportunities on the mound?" The answer was the standard coach-speak about showing it in practice. Unfortunately, on the few occasions son was even given an opportunity to throw a bullpen in practice (he and one other seldom-used pitcher were the lowest priority for bullpens) he was usually sent to the pen with just a catcher; neither the head coach nor the pitching coach bothered to walk/stay out there and watch. And since the coach made him a PO that year (another story altogether), there really wasn't much else he could do to impress the coach while he was standing by a bucket of balls next to the screen in centerfield.
Son made exactly 1 appearance the remainder of the season - 1 mop up inning against one of the worst teams in the state in a blowout. Took him exactly 8 pitches to get 3 outs.
It didn't get much better senior year. Son finished career with exactly 14.0 IP and a 2.00 ERA in varsity games. Never allowed more than 1 run in any inning that he pitched. Never had an inning he didn't finish. (And before you ask, there were never any off-field issues with grades or behavior.)
Interestingly, of the 9 pitchers on son's list, my son and every pitcher he ranked above him are currently college pitchers. Zero of the pitchers he ranked below him will likely ever pitch in college.
RE: MRBUMSTEAD
This is the essence of it, unfortunately for your son. Even if you are 100% right, it still doesn't matter. There is just not much good that will come of a meeting most of the time.
Good programs with smart coaches ask the players to rank each other before season. This gives the coach an idea where they feel their teammates fit in the lineup.
Sons HS coach did it, Jack Leggett did it and they do it in sons program now. It sort of eliminates the discussion, if you might be sitting you understand it a lot better coming from your own teammates.
TPM posted:Good programs with smart coaches ask the players to rank each other before season. This gives the coach an idea where they feel their teammates fit in the lineup.
Sons HS coach did it, Jack Leggett did it and they do it in sons program now. It sort of eliminates the discussion, if you might be sitting you understand it a lot better coming from your own teammates.
This could be a good way to start things off and get a discussion going if it isn't a popularity contest. But I've never seen a coach do it personally. The players can keep it real more than the coaches at times, for sure. I've never understood why a coach adamantly refuses to talk about playing time with the players whatsoever, unless there is some underlying agenda. I would always listen and try to see things from the players perspective. I'm not God. What's wrong with involving the team with discussions of who fits where and why? Of course, coach gets final say. Again the ego of the coach can come into play. There should be fair and open competition in the preseason to compete for starting spots. A third of the way through the season should be an evaluation of how those starters are working out. At that point, platoons can be established for a starter who's performance hasn't been there to give someone else a chance to prove themselves. Again, rarely see this happen either. A lot of the time, the starting roster has been decided before the tryout even takes place.
Rules for dealing with coaches and playing time ...
1) The coach will always be right and you will always be wrong.
2) If you ever stop believing #1 read it again.
The only viable question is, "How do you believe I can improve my game to earn more playing time?" The only legitimate solution is visibly outwork every other player in practice. Be on the field before the coaching staff. Be there when they leave. Obviously, homework can create exceptions.
I was only approached once as a coach about playing time and position. The parent couldn't argue against the kid batting last with a .170 BA playing about half the time. After listening to the dad's BS I never wanted to tell the truth more than ever in my life ... "Your son can't play at this level. I made a mistake asking him to be on the team." **
The kid wasn't going to be invited back the next year. He was proactive and told the world he was going to focus on another sport next summer. The kid knew where he stood on the team.
** Selecting the kid was a political decision that blew up in my face ten fold having him on the team.
DadintheBox posted:So let me change the conversation a bit. I have been debating having a conversation with son's coach. This year was a train wreck. Team made 100 errors in the field in a 31 game season and pitchers walked 108 batters in 209 innings (one pitcher only walked 4 in 47 2/3 so the others walked 104 in 161 1/3). I want to know what his plans are to make the team better next year. By the end of the year, when games counted the most, he had lost the team.
There are other issues like: No live BP only machine. No live fungos, only shot from machine. You get the idea.
Honestly, I am giving him a chance to convince me not to talk to the administration about the need for a change in coaches. He is a nice guy. He does a great job keeping the field in great shape. He just isn't a good baseball coach.
I think this has been covered but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone in a season like that. They happen all over the US. However, I am serious when I say my role is to drive the car and write the checks and make sure no one is physically hurting my kid. I'm also the occasional cheerleader, but that is all. You may want to embrace those roles.
ironhorse posted:DadintheBox posted:So let me change the conversation a bit. I have been debating having a conversation with son's coach. This year was a train wreck. Team made 100 errors in the field in a 31 game season and pitchers walked 108 batters in 209 innings (one pitcher only walked 4 in 47 2/3 so the others walked 104 in 161 1/3). I want to know what his plans are to make the team better next year. By the end of the year, when games counted the most, he had lost the team.
There are other issues like: No live BP only machine. No live fungos, only shot from machine. You get the idea.
Honestly, I am giving him a chance to convince me not to talk to the administration about the need for a change in coaches. He is a nice guy. He does a great job keeping the field in great shape. He just isn't a good baseball coach.
Get certified to teach/coach (whatever is applicable in your area) and get a job as a HS coach. Build a program that just beats the snot out of his every year, and then when he quits due to the embarrassment of your superior coaching ability, apply for that job and get it. Win state. Repeat.
Orrrrrrrrrr maybe rather than whining and complaining and making excuses for the kids (probably especially yours) offer to HELP. Tell him you'd love to throw BP for them one day. You'd love to hit fungoes. Or volunteer to coach and headup the summer/offseason program and improve them that way. Arrange times for the kids to meet up at the local cages or field in the summer to work them out. INVEST yourself in the program for the benefit of ALL of the kids.
There are a million ways to move things in a positive direction and teach your son that excuses and going behind someone's back demanding to get your way is cowardly.
Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass. I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.
As for the general inquiry, it all depends on the coach. Obviously any inquiry must be made by the player. Perhaps you can ask some of the senior players parents about the coach. Is he receptive to players coming in and looking for guidance? Is he known for being open and honest?
As far as a crappy coach. I think a parent has EVERY GOD DAMN right to discuss with the AD whether or not the coach is a fit. Guess what. THE COACH IS PAID. By school tax dollars. He is an EMPLOYTEE. If your not capable of making the team better, they should hire someone who can. PERIOD.
I think an athlete should have every right to respectfully and correctly approach the coaching staff if he wants more playing time and inquire about what his flaws are and what he needs to do. If a coach wants to bash him for it, he isnt much of a coach. I have no problem moving my son to a different school district if the coaches are nitwits. If the coach isn't willing to have discussions with his players, handle the team appropriately and is plain lost, why would I have my son sit on the bench for the next 3 years with no hope of breaking the starting line up even if he deserves it?
One parent going to the district complaining, or even two, is part of coaching. Your going to get those parents who sons were cut. Claims of favoritism... But if a large portion of the parental population start chirping, someone is going to listen.
I agree with Swampboy. The Coach speaks with the lineup card. The player speaks with performance - when he gets the chance either in practice, scrimmage, and/or game. I don't believe a player should ask the coach these type questions although I understand others may disagree with me.
Try and speak to the coach by actions not words - out-attituding, out-working, and out-hustling other players. Be the first guy there and the last to leave. Be the best teammate you can be for the guys who are playing. Keep working on building speed, arm strength, overall strength, fielding ability, pitching ability, etc. Be ready for one at bat or if a pitcher ready to face one hitter. Don't let the coach down when he finally does give you that ONE chance.
Kevin A posted:As for the general inquiry, it all depends on the coach. Obviously any inquiry must be made by the player. Perhaps you can ask some of the senior players parents about the coach. Is he receptive to players coming in and looking for guidance? Is he known for being open and honest?
As far as a crappy coach. I think a parent has EVERY GOD DAMN right to discuss with the AD whether or not the coach is a fit. Guess what. THE COACH IS PAID. By school tax dollars. He is an EMPLOYTEE. If your not capable of making the team better, they should hire someone who can. PERIOD.
I think an athlete should have every right to respectfully and correctly approach the coaching staff if he wants more playing time and inquire about what his flaws are and what he needs to do. If a coach wants to bash him for it, he isnt much of a coach. I have no problem moving my son to a different school district if the coaches are nitwits. If the coach isn't willing to have discussions with his players, handle the team appropriately and is plain lost, why would I have my son sit on the bench for the next 3 years with no hope of breaking the starting line up even if he deserves it?
One parent going to the district complaining, or even two, is part of coaching. Your going to get those parents who sons were cut. Claims of favoritism... But if a large portion of the parental population start chirping, someone is going to listen.
Going to the AD to complain and you are setting yourself up for a long uphill battle and it really won't matter if you are proven right or not. It will not matter if the coach is an employee and as a tax payer you have a right to have some accountability for the way the program is run. Even if he is let go you will not win in the long run for this conversation. You are going to branded as "that" parent and that means more pressure on your kid. Baseball is hard enough to play and your kids don't need to think about all of the team drama baggage going on in their life and putting more pressure on them to perform. A lot of odd things go on in HS baseball and the way teams are set up by coaches, none of which as a parent you can control. Take a long walk down the line, mumble to yourself, tell yourself coaches are not paid enough for all of the hours they put in, maybe put a margarita in a coffee cup. Whatever you need to not single yourself out. You may be right about everything going on but you will be end up being wrong and regretting it.
TPM posted:Good programs with smart coaches ask the players to rank each other before season. This gives the coach an idea where they feel their teammates fit in the lineup.
Sons HS coach did it, Jack Leggett did it and they do it in sons program now. It sort of eliminates the discussion, if you might be sitting you understand it a lot better coming from your own teammates.
So what if the reverse is true. What if, just suppose, your teammates can't figure out why "little johnny" is DH being that he can't hit a beach ball?
ClevelandDad posted:I agree with Swampboy. The Coach speaks with the lineup card. The player speaks with performance - when he gets the chance either in practice, scrimmage, and/or game. I don't believe a player should ask the coach these type questions although I understand others may disagree with me.
Try and speak to the coach by actions not words - out-attituding, out-working, and out-hustling other players. Be the first guy there and the last to leave. Be the best teammate you can be for the guys who are playing. Keep working on building speed, arm strength, overall strength, fielding ability, pitching ability, etc. Be ready for one at bat or if a pitcher ready to face one hitter. Don't let the coach down when he finally does give you that ONE chance.
This.
Last weekend 3 freshman pitchers, who sat out in conference games ar FSC, and preparing on JV, were called upon in a tough game in a tough series. They stepped up, they earned playing time this weekend.
This is how it works on every level. Be prepared. Period.
Golfman25 posted:TPM posted:Good programs with smart coaches ask the players to rank each other before season. This gives the coach an idea where they feel their teammates fit in the lineup.
Sons HS coach did it, Jack Leggett did it and they do it in sons program now. It sort of eliminates the discussion, if you might be sitting you understand it a lot better coming from your own teammates.
So what if the reverse is true. What if, just suppose, your teammates can't figure out why "little johnny" is DH being that he can't hit a beach ball?
I am not suggesting that the coach does his line up this way. Its just getting an idea of how they perceive each other.
Kids are smart, they know who works hard and who will make the biggest impacts. Chances are if you are sitting, you don't need to ask the coach what you have to do to crack the lineup, but probably, no one is going to ask anyway.
bigcubbiefan posted:My son had this same scenario...my son is a unique dude but he was honest...not smart, but honest... and it didn't go well. Of course he didn't ask dads opinion before doing it and wouldn't have listened to me anyway but whatever you do...make sure its not the coaches close family member that you say you should be starting in front of.
Frankly, I like his moxy. That's what I want in a player. He'd get a start on my team. 
Kevin A posted:ironhorse posted:DadintheBox posted:So let me change the conversation a bit. I have been debating having a conversation with son's coach. This year was a train wreck. Team made 100 errors in the field in a 31 game season and pitchers walked 108 batters in 209 innings (one pitcher only walked 4 in 47 2/3 so the others walked 104 in 161 1/3). I want to know what his plans are to make the team better next year. By the end of the year, when games counted the most, he had lost the team.
There are other issues like: No live BP only machine. No live fungos, only shot from machine. You get the idea.
Honestly, I am giving him a chance to convince me not to talk to the administration about the need for a change in coaches. He is a nice guy. He does a great job keeping the field in great shape. He just isn't a good baseball coach.
Get certified to teach/coach (whatever is applicable in your area) and get a job as a HS coach. Build a program that just beats the snot out of his every year, and then when he quits due to the embarrassment of your superior coaching ability, apply for that job and get it. Win state. Repeat.
Orrrrrrrrrr maybe rather than whining and complaining and making excuses for the kids (probably especially yours) offer to HELP. Tell him you'd love to throw BP for them one day. You'd love to hit fungoes. Or volunteer to coach and headup the summer/offseason program and improve them that way. Arrange times for the kids to meet up at the local cages or field in the summer to work them out. INVEST yourself in the program for the benefit of ALL of the kids.
There are a million ways to move things in a positive direction and teach your son that excuses and going behind someone's back demanding to get your way is cowardly.
Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass. I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.
If that comment was made to ironhorse, I think he answered pretty well.
Ask the coach what you can improve to help the team more and then work on it and make the coach see it.
Dominik85 posted:Ask the coach what you can improve to help the team more and then work on it and make the coach see it.
The player should know and understand expectations set forth by the coach.
I have this conversation every game with my bench players. I don't want to be all black and white so I'm open ears for whatever they have to say. I have one guy who can smash the ball in practice, but hasn't replicated it in games. His backup can't hit, is an equal fielder, but has been able to get on base in games when I've put him in for other positions. It's hard to select the backup when your #1 guy can hit the ball out of the park, but the backup is such a gamer while bambino is a big softy. I'm going to sit the big guy because he's not helping the team, while #2 has the mental makeup that I want all my players to have.
ironhorse posted:I typically would only pose that particular question to a parent, as they generally have been told no less than 10 times we're not going to talk about playing time, so when they do, and typically in a confrontational, I have no problem throwing that at them.
But I have no problem comparing the kid I'm talking to to the starter he's competing with, as that's the only way to have an honest dialogue.
Our kids are basically told to phrase it as "what do I need to work on to get more playing time/start/etc.?" Right now I have a 1b who is weak defensively but can swing it some. Then I have 2 other 1b who are great defensively but need to be DH'd for. So when they ask, I have to talk about the other 1b for comparison's sake. It's the only way to be direct and honest to me.
This ^. "What do I need to work on to contribute to the team?"
Kevin A posted:As for the general inquiry, it all depends on the coach. Obviously any inquiry must be made by the player. Perhaps you can ask some of the senior players parents about the coach. Is he receptive to players coming in and looking for guidance? Is he known for being open and honest?
As far as a crappy coach. I think a parent has EVERY GOD DAMN right to discuss with the AD whether or not the coach is a fit. Guess what. THE COACH IS PAID. By school tax dollars. He is an EMPLOYTEE. If your not capable of making the team better, they should hire someone who can. PERIOD.
I think an athlete should have every right to respectfully and correctly approach the coaching staff if he wants more playing time and inquire about what his flaws are and what he needs to do. If a coach wants to bash him for it, he isnt much of a coach. I have no problem moving my son to a different school district if the coaches are nitwits. If the coach isn't willing to have discussions with his players, handle the team appropriately and is plain lost, why would I have my son sit on the bench for the next 3 years with no hope of breaking the starting line up even if he deserves it?
One parent going to the district complaining, or even two, is part of coaching. Your going to get those parents who sons were cut. Claims of favoritism... But if a large portion of the parental population start chirping, someone is going to listen.
good lord....you probably should go talk to the coach, and since he's a crappy coach, he'll probably retaliate by not playing your son and then you'll move your son somewhere else and he will have effectively weeded you out and be better off for it. I hope for your son's sake you keep these thoughts to yourself.
