Teaching - See The Ball Correctly

Here's another opinion FWIW

You spend most of your life seeing things with both your eyes at the same level. Most do not tilt their head to the side walking down the street, eating dinner, reading the newspaper, driving a car, etc.

Even right now as you read this are both your eyes level or are you reading this with your head tilted to one side?

So most people spend there time seeing things with level eyes. Maybe this experiment won't work for everyone, but pick up a paper or look at a picture on the wall and make sure you have your eyes level. Then tilt your head to the side and look at the paper, computer screen or picture on the wall.

Now do it with mouth clamped tightly and then quickly relax and open your mouth.

Most people will quickly understand there is a visual advantage to level eyes and relaxed mouth. Yet I see hundreds of young hitters who are peeking sideways at the pitcher with their head cocked while gritting their teeth.

See the ball the way you practice the most at seeing everything else. People spend a very small percentage of their life looking at things sideways while gritting their teeth.

Guess this topic will fall back behind more discussion regarding rotational and/or linear mechanics. That's OK, but isn't that one kind of worn out by now and doesn't it seem like there's always a hidden sales adgenda involved in those discussions? So much of what everyone agrees on is just different "Words" describing basically the same thing?

IMO, First make sure you are seeing the ball the very best way. You can practice this to a point without even swinging a bat. Once that is mastered, then move on to whatever you believe is the very best swing mechanics.

You can have the perfect MLB swing, but with bad vision technique, you will fail to come anywhere near your potential.

I'm very interested in hearing what others have to say. Especially those who might feel it's important. Maybe it's a boring subject to most, but I can't believe I'm the only one who feels good vision technique is vitally important.

BTW, I have absolutely nothing to sell anyone on here. No profit motives or sales pitches for any other business or person. Simply very interested in how others view this. I know there are some very knowledgeable people who post here and I'd like to read their thoughts.

Well, MLB hitters do tilt their head before making ball contact....

Also, I can easily grit my teeth and open my eyes very wide....

And, chewing gum improves concentration according to some major studies I have read....

Does any of that contradict anything you are saying, or not?

Those were my thoughts, I wasn't really looking for contradictions or arguments. But very interested in what are some of the things MLB hitters do to see the ball better.

There are not very many great hitters who tilt their eyes much when seeing the pitcher release the ball.

Many hitters chew gum, if you look at the close up of hitters like David Ortiz, you'll see that his mouth is so relaxed that the gum is about falling out of his mouth when the pitcher is releasing the ball.

Do you see as clearly with your teeth gritting
together and tense, than you do when your mouth is relaxed or open? I don't!

Anyway, does anyone have anything to add? Is seeing the ball very important or does it just come naturally? Does a hitter see the ball the same way no matter what he does?

Barry's eyes may begin level but will tilt "slighty" with head as it follows ball to point of contact. peace shep

Post by Nolan08 towards a post I made on this topic earlier this year. The second link in his post is the one I am referring. I used the strike through feature for the first site so no one else would go there.

"My son works with the best vision training specialist around, Dr. Bill Harrison, who I believe was the one who taught Syd Thrift all of those vision technigues. Anyways He has an amazing website that you can do drills online, where my son has improved his hitting as well as his concentration in school. The website is sportseye.com He also has a website for at home drills slowthegamedown.com both highly recommended. Hope they help."Quote by Nolan08 peace shep

Most every great hitter (including Bonds, Pujols, etc.) will have his eyes level at pitchers release point. Many young players do not! The most important time for the best possible vision is the release point and the ball half way to the plate. What happens at contact is a result of what happened during release and shortly thereafter.

Shep, The first link is something other than about hitting or vision. However the second link includes something very valuable regarding vision in hitting. I have never met Dr Harrison, but would like to. There are some believers and some who don’t. Without getting into too much detail, I have seen enough to be a BIG believer!

Personally I think vision is often taken for granted in hitting and it’s my opinion that it shouldn’t be.

There is a very big difference in “relaxed” vision and “tense” vision. Enough difference that it can drastically improve a hitter who learns relaxed vision.

I noticed that too Jerry. Just didn't want to take it out of Nolan08's quote. Just trying to maintain the integrity of his post; however, I am going back and striking a line through that link for the sake of not wasting anyone else's time. I for one, know that time is a precious commodity. peace PG shep
PS(After further research, I believe the first site should be sportseyesite.com)

Did you know that you can "trick" your eyes into seeing things in such a way that it will improve performance in hitting as well as almost all other areas of the game?

The eyes play an important role in mental preparation. The eyes and the mind are very close partners.

We have spent a lot of time over the years with this stuff. In fact, one of our former students, regarding tricking the eyes, is playing in the game we're all watching tonight.

If I told you how I learned that, you wouldn't believe me.(Tricking the eyes, that is.) Who is the player your speaking of in the game tonight, if you don't mind me asking? peace shep

He's playing 3B for the team that is behind 10 to 1.

That guy Blake looks exactly like a RHP I played professional baseball with, on the same team, in fact. His name is Reggie Ritter and was hit by a line-drive a couple years before we played together. He was beamed in the show, while pitching for the Indians. He was in the hospital a month and stayed away from baseball, SEVERAL years after the unfortunate incident. He was trying to make a comeback, and was still throwing hard, but straight, with not enough movement. I still admired him though and not sure what happened to him after that year. I will say this, he had a profound affect on my thoughts on religion, and I will never forget his kindness.

His resemblence to Casey Blake is uncanny! On bus rides, Ritter would chat with me. After one game he pitched, we won 2-1. He and I talked from Hagerstown, MD to Kinston, NC after a series with the Orioles. He helped me tremendously. peace shep

I found the story on Ritter. I believe 1989 may have been his last year when he played on the same team I did, the Class "A" Carolina League Pilots @ Ole War Memorial Stadium. Here's the story:
Reggie Ritter's Story

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Post by Nolan08 towards a post I made on this topic earlier this year. The second link in his post is the one I am referring. I used the strike through feature for the first site so no one else would go there.

"My son works with the best vision training specialist around, Dr. Bill Harrison, who I believe was the one who taught Syd Thrift all of those vision technigues. Anyways He has an amazing website that you can do drills online, where my son has improved his hitting as well as his concentration in school. The website is sportseye.com He also has a website for at home drills slowthegamedown.com both highly recommended. Hope they help."Quote by Nolan08 peace shep

Great site! I found it about a year ago and I love it! As far as Bonds' head being tilted, it gets tilted with the shoulders.

As far as seeing the ball goes, I think seeing with both eyes is the most important thing and like you say PG, keeping your eyes level in the beginning of the swing gives a better perspective on the ball and release point.

I think quick recognition drills that are shown on the above mentioned site are very good for that and SPARQ training has some as well.

Small world, Ritter pitched in the same park we call home. Reggie Ritter actually played in Iowa a few years, both at the beginning and the end of his pro career. This link is from the Baseball Cube.

Reggie Ritter's pro career

Interesting testimonial from a MLB hitter on one of the links from those sites.

“When you get to this level it’s so much more visual than physical.”
Sean Casey

Jerry, it is a small world! Do you know any of the others from this roster I just scanned? By the way, Reggie and I were the two oldest players on that team. peace RS

Wasn't Tad Power (Sandlot Academy) and the radio show, a pitcher on that team?

Baseball Cube is a great site, it has all the records from every year in the minor leagues. I'm sure they make some mistakes though.

Here is the Baseball Cube link for that team that year.
1989 Peninsula Pilots

I now see that Tad Power is listed on your roster.

quote:

Wasn't Tad Power (Sandlot Academy) and the radio show, a pitcher on that team?

He certainly was Jerry. Very astute professional, indeed. You know the ole saying, those who played together, stay together. We are like a family.

Appreciate that link. That's the first time I've ever seen that stat sheet since my release, and always wondered how I finished. Coach Thrift had a spot for me in the midwest league when I was released, to play for Mel Finchman, but I didn't follow-up. I finished my college education and coached DIV I baseball for a year, instead Probably a very wise move, on my part.
Appreciate the link Jerry. Sleep well. I'm out for now. peace shep

Is Tad Powers a coach with the Sandlot Academy team? ...The name sounds familiar, I think we may have played them in the PG tournament in Iowa.

Has anyone been to any of the seminars or classes that are mentioned on the slow the game down website or the other one? Is anyone currently using any of the products and how do you feel about them. Great subject, thanks pg.

Tad Powers is the CEO/President of "all" the Sandlot Academies which has grown ten-fold in a very short time. Sandlot Academies If you go to the site, make sure you click the High Country Sandlot Foundation. Here's the link:High Country Sandlot Foundation This is a life-saving mission in itself

J.Weaver#5, did you notice Scott Jaster's name on the roster? Remember, he was the scout I told you signed Brandon Webb when he scouted for the D'Backs.
Jaster's nickname on the Pilots team was "Master-Blaster" , I was better known as "Crazy Horse" because I got caught stealing homeplate and had a headfirst, head-on collision with Rick Wilkins, who was catching for the Cubs affiliate. The plate umpire that night was Angel Hernandez. He called me out, even though I was safe. We were up a few runs with our SS hitting in late-innings. Coach Thrift and I were trying to make sure we got my run across for the sake of our bullpen, which could be inconsistent at times, to say the least. Good ole memories from the distant past. Thanks for asking. peace RS

2 bagger,

Don't know Doctor Harrison, but I'm going to subscribe and find out more. Maybe his stuff can help in other areas like scouting. Anyway, it sure does sound interesting.

As mentioned before, I think this is an important topic that for some reason doesn't get much time devoted to it on this site. There are all the obvious things that hitters do to see and track the ball, but I'm kind of interested in any new ideas that others have tried or might have heard about.

First of all, I am not an expert on eye sight, but here is another thought…

Eyes tracking an object… Slowing down the ball!

If eyes track forward or towards an object even the slightest amount that object will appear to move faster. If the eyes track with or ahead of an object, the object seems to slow down and become clearer.

This is best experienced at something like setting in the front row of the grand stands at a race car track. If you look at the race car with out moving the eyes along the path/direction it is moving, it appears to go very fast and is impossible to track or see. If you move your eyes the opposite way the race car is traveling the car appears to moving at warp speed and you can’t really see it at all. The only way you can really focus on that race car traveling 200 mph is to have your eyes move the direction of the car or slightly in front of the car.

I know this sounds very simple, but it’s surprising how many young hitters do not use this same technique when tracking a baseball. (Slowing down the ball) All it takes is one twitch or mistake and the ball appears faster rather than slower. Without realizing it, the ball can even disappear for an instant.

BTW, FWIW… Doctor Harrison surely has better explanations for this stuff. My theory is only based on common sense. There are probably much better ways to describe this stuff. For sure, there is much more too it!

PG, I just can't imagine how someone could look in front of a ball coming at you....I don't believe that happens.....

I do think you can look through the ball and encompass a bigger picture using peripheral and ambient vision....You will be getting a view of the pitcher's release and the ball leaving his hand at the same time.......

My thoughts are that hitter's are looking behind the ball and around the ball (ambient vision) to give the eyes such a look as to provide a background to let the brain know where the ball was and where the ball is now and how much time it took for it to get there....That's the equation for the brain to best figure the speed at which the ball is moving and to relay to the nerves and muscles when it should arrive in the hitting zone, I believe....

The brain needs to figure time to convert into speed from what my studies have shown me.....Like figuring out the speed of light....You need to know time, first....Feet per second and all that other stuff.......Then convert that figure into speed....

Now, I know you told me you aren't looking for contradictions or arguments, but, this is a subject I have done quite alot of research on, so, there you go....

I believe one reason that great hitters like Bonds, Ramirez and Ortiz look more relaxed at the plate is because they know and trust they are using their vision properly.....

Their pitch recognition ablities are, at times, almost unbelievable....


If you're right and I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll straighten me out....

BlueDog,

I didn’t start this thread as a who’s right or wrong thing. I’m just glad we are discussing it. Because when you combine the right swing with the right vision and the right mind you have something very special. I understand that there can be varying opinions on what is “right”! I’ll respect your opinions if you respect mine! In fact, I’ll respect your opinions no matter what.

If more people get involved in this discussion, we might actually all learn something.

Regarding speed of the ball… your eyes can add or subtract from that speed. Not change the velocity of course, but change the way you actually see the ball. At the highest levels the speed of the ball is nothing new, they see high velocity every day. Once a pitch is thrown 95+ the timing mechanism is already familiar with what to do. Still seeing the ball is vitally important for many other reasons including early recognition of pitch and location.

When I get back from Jupiter, I’m going to read what Doctor Harrison has to say about this subject, because I’m betting he has spent more time than both of us studying this. Maybe those who have actually read his stuff already, can give us some information.

quote:

I believe one reason that great hitters like Bonds, Ramirez and Ortiz look more relaxed at the plate is because they know and trust they are using their vision properly.....

Has any of those guys said what they do as far as vision is concerned? That might be pretty interesting. I do think that in most every part of athletics there are some who for one reason or another just do things correct more naturally. Even when it comes to vision.

It aint just about velocity......

Ball movement can be more accurately judged by proper use of vision....And, again, you need that background for the eyes to send the proper information to the brain to get a read on the ball movement as well as the speed of the pitch....

It can be damaging to tell a player to watch the ball....They will often think you mean to look directly at the ball...And, unfortunately, far too many coaches do mean just that....

I think when you see some young players develop quicker than others, it may have something to do with how he is using his vision compared to the others....Proper use of vision will give a player confidence and let him relax to make plays and to hit....

A line drive shot hit to the hot corner doesn't offer much of a look for the player....But, they almost always make the play.....Corner infielders are also good hitters.....

BlueDog,

Is it fair to say you do not believe in picking up the rotation of the seams as soon as possible? Or am I misreading what you are saying?

No problem if you can do it without using focal vision.....

Excellent topic PG.
One thing that is for sure, is that you can only focus on a single point for a few nano seconds before you start to broad out to a bigger picture with your eye's.
Try focusing on one point for longer then 1 second.
It's hard not to spread out your vision to everything, but your original point of vision??

Do those who pick up the rotation of the ball early... See that rotation on the outer edges of the baseball or somewhere else on the ball?

The reason I believe this is such a fascinating subject is because other than some basic things there is a lot of disagreement among hitters, coaches and even vision experts as to what to do and how to best achieve it. Some great hitters don't even think about how they see the ball. Other great hitters claim it's the secret to their success.

The only consistent is that everyone knows it's important. We used to always have hitters stand in the box and track pitches whenever pitchers threw off the mound or in the bullpen during practices. This (we believed) was beneficial to both hitter and pitcher. It's amazing how well hitters can see the ball when they're not swinging. Could it be that their eyes are more relaxed?

PG,

My apologies for not getting into this thread earlier, my internet has been out.

I think I touched on this a while back, but in summer ball after my sophomore year of college I worked on some things that I believe help me out a great deal.

My summer ball coach, Phil Swimley, who coached at UC Davis for over 30 years, did some study into vision training when he was there. What he had me start to do was really pay attention to certain things on the pitcher's uniform while I was in the box. I will stare at his cleats, his belt buckle, a dot in a i on his uniform, whatever I can to focus on the target that is 60 feet, 6 inches away. Whatever pattern I use always ends at the logo on his cap. For me, that is the closest spot to the pitcher's release point that I can find. I don't know about other hitters, but I certainly can't focus on the pitcher's release point before he shows it, because until that point it is merely an area floating in space. If a hitter wants to try and focus on a spot in space over the pitcher's shoulder, be my guest, but I cannot do it.

Changing focuse points on the pitcher keeps the eyes from broadening out to a bigger picture, as theEH said.

Coach Swimley said that he found a pattern for guys looking was most effective, but I made it my own. Like I said, I usually work from the feet up until I get to the cap.

The whole premise behind this is to focus your eyes on a spot 60 feet, 6 inches away. IMO it does the hitter no good to look anywhere else right before the pitch is thrown.

For example, have a pitcher go out to the mound and go up to the plate like you were to hit. Focus on the centerfield wall until the pitcher is about to release, then try to pick up the ball and its spin as it comes out of his hand. Then focus on different points of the pitcher's uniform, end on the logo of his hat, and then try to pick up spin. I would be very very surprised if you didn't pick the ball up better on your second try while focusing on the pitcher.

This has benefitted me greatly in picking up spin and location. Before I did this I couldn't tell you how I saw the ball or what I focused on before the pitch. Now I can, and IMO I am better off for it.

As for tracking pitches in the bullpen, I'm all for it. I played with a guy this year who tracked pitches in the bullpen before every game this year, and he ended up being our minor league player of the year and hit a home run off of Tom Glavine in New York during September. I think it works for him and would encourage many to try it out.

quote:

I will stare at his cleats, his belt buckle, a dot in a i on his uniform, whatever I can to focus on the target that is 60 feet, 6 inches away.

beemax,

As a person who has tried to operate on common sense... I gotta say... That makes a lot of sense!

Makes me wonder if you could trick your eyes into focusing and getting ready to see something even closer to release point ie. 55 feet.

We work on an "imaginary" box--- dont watch the motion -- watch where it comes from within the box that you have fixed in your mind and vision---you are not looking at anything else

Don’t know how many here are into sprinting, but ever wonder what those world class sprinters are looking at while they get ready before getting into the blocks.

For those who haven’t noticed before, next time you see a highest level world class 100 meter race, watch how some of the sprinters are deeply focusing as they gaze down the track at the finish line.

They are using their eyes to get a mental picture of the upcoming race. They are actually trying to shorten the 100 meter distance in their mind. They are visualizing, just like many hitters do, except they are actually trying to trick themselves into seeing and believing something different than what is really there.

The power of the mind! That is the most amazing subject of all!

TR,

The disagreement I have with the imaginary box is that there is no point to focus on in that box that is 60 feet, 6 inches away. I beleive that this "box" is a floating point in space that is tough to focus on because there is nothing for the eyes to focus on if it is merely air that fills this box until release. That's why I say focus on the nearest point to that box, which the majority of the time is the logo on the cap, IMO.

PG,

To your question of whether you can focus on something 55 feet away...

I see where you are ging but my thinking is this: once the ball is thrown you are now tracking an object coming towards you. If you are focusing on the cap in the windup and delivery, the cap is also mooving towards you, albeit at a slower rate than the ball will be after release. IMO the fact that the hitter is already focusing on a moving object makes it easier to focus once the ball is released in that 55 foot area (give or take) and begins to travel towards the hitter.

Not sure if that makes sense but that is the best way I can respond to that. A scientist could probably break it down in different terms, but that is my thinking on the subject.

Yes, It does make sense!

quote:

We work on an "imaginary" box--- dont watch the motion -- watch where it comes from within the box that you have fixed in your mind and vision---you are not looking at anything else

TRhit, this is very valid, IMO....

If you can imagine it, you can see it......And, you can, also, actually focus on it......

I do the same, but, with a tunnel.......

Check out baseballvisionprogram.com for info on seeing and tracking the baseball.