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194 replies

Teaching hitters.

T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
quote:
My feeling is that some basics need to be taught and UNDERSTOOD before moving ahead into the running start.


The running start of the upper and lower body is as basic as it gets.......It cannot get more basic.......

If you don't bypass the shoulders, then you will power with the shoulders........This will make your swing slow and good pitching will sit you down.......



BUT,what about hip turn and getting the bat on the plane of the ball.


If one is young and just starting,will they be able to grasp the concept or should you get down to basics of the swing and breaking it down and teaching actuall muscle memory.


I feel that basics should be taught first.I personally feel it is a mistake to put too much on a student of any avenue at the beginning.

The student at that point should dictate at what rate you accelerate the teaching.IMHO
T tfox100+ posts
That is the problem,nothing about hitting is basic and it is much more difficult for some.


When I try to get my daughter to have a running start,her bat and hips go together(all the way through the swing) and you won't see very many succesful hitters do this.Hips start to open before the bat.


She has to be taught this,separate from the running start.
T tfox100+ posts
This is what you are not grasping.


Hips should not be swinging with the bat.Hips should be open right before the bat makes contact with the ball.


My daughter hits the ball at the same pace as the hips.Running start (or trying the running start method)makes this worse.Bat should be slightly behind the hips.



It has to be broken down into basic steps for it to be "correct"

look at the pic,hips are completely open and contact has not been made yet and if you need me too,I can post a pic of bonds the same way.


Last edited by tfox
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
As per upper body, the arc must be created before you can carry it forward......

Certainly, you cannot carry an arc forward that hasn't been created first......



I posted before I saw this or maybe at the same time.


This is what I am aluding to and the whole point of this thread.The student should dictate the methods used and breaking it down into steps is much easier for some to grasp and understand than others.


My son's coach(and now daughter) has a couple different methods of counting the steps for the students and the student's aptitude is what will dictate when and how he uses them.
Last edited by tfox
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
One more time and that's it for me......

This is very basic stuff...

The front hip opens during the stride and the back hip loads....This is a running start....

The arc is created beginning with the bat changing planes, then tipping the bat toward the picher and ending with the hands torquing the bat handle....The hands stay put and do not move forward...This is a running start.........

The back hip fires and the arch is, then, carried forward....Swing plane adjustments are made during this step.....
T tfox100+ posts
I KNOW but expalin that to a an 8,10 or 12 year old child. Then teach it to them.


If they don't understand it or can't do it,break it down into steps.


This is exactly what my son has done and my daughter started to do but I jumped forward and tried it with the running start method but it isn't working as well as doing it in steps.
T tfox100+ posts
What is your point?


You can teach hitting by teaching the contact position first and then get into the starting position AFTER the contact position has been learned.

IMO,it works better for kids this way.

You don't cloud their minds with a bunch of cues and terminology.


Just put them on the T and have 3 steps.Once those 3 steps are understood,then break those 3 steps down a little more.Once they have that,then get into starting positons and see what works for them.





TO ME,this makes more since and is easier to teach,atleast for my kids it is.


I don't care what it is called.


Don't misunderstand my point.I am not arguing the running start as a good hitting technique,just the methods of teaching hitting in general.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
A big problem is trying to teach a kid to swing with the hips first then the bat.......

You shouldn't do this....This concept is all wrong......


My son was taught this way and in less than a year has progressed into one hell of a hitter with alot of great mechanics,especially for a child of 9.

Not saying he is perfect and still has ALOT to learn and the running start is what we are working on now.

You have seen the latest video,what specific bad habit is he doing that was caused by this method?

NOTE,bad habit caused,not just any bad habit.
Last edited by tfox
N noreast10+ posts
For me, the hips have pretty much become a non-teach. I focus on the rotating into foot plant and flaring the knee while creating the stretch with the upper body. The hips take care of themselves.

As the front leg is rotating into plant, the torquing of the hands and arcing of the barrel allow the body-stretch to occur. The hands will bring the barrel into swing plane, and signal the upper body when to tilt and turn.

Admittedly, my son is an older player who also pitches. We were able to use the feel he generates in creating the body stretch when pitching from the stretch and using a slide step. Pinch the front knee, let the load work up, rotate into foot plant. As the hips began to rotate, torque the hands before rotating them forward. It all became real easy from there.
Last edited by noreast
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by noreast:
For me, the hips have pretty much become a non-teach. I focus on the rotating into ffot plant and flaring the knee while creating the stretch with the upper body. The hips take care of themselves.

As the front leg is rotating into plant, the torquing of the hands and arcing of the barrel allow the body-stretch to occur. The hands will bring the barrel into swing plane, and signal the upper body when to tilt and turn.



I pesonally don't feel tha ANYTHING takes care of itself when dealing with a young child. Big Grin
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
Get off the tee and pitch to the kids...And, quit teaching the swing in parts....It doesn't work.......At least, not if you want your kid to reach the high levels....

Don't tell them when to fire the hips...Teach them the basics I showed you and let their bodies figure out how to square up the bat on the ball with the proper timing......

Stretch the hips and create the arc...Then, move the arc forward........

And, do it against pitching...Whiffle balls in the yard work just fine....

If those kids can't understand what I'm saying, then, they sure as heck would be confused by someone trying to teach one part of the swing, then another, then another......
Last edited by BlueDog
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
Get off the tee and pitch to the kids...And, quit teaching the swing in parts....It doesn't work.......At least, not if you want your kid to reach the high levels....

Don't tell them when to fire the hips...Teach them the basics I showed you and let their bodies figure out how to square up the bat on the ball with the proper timing......

Stretch the hips and create the arc...Then, move the arc forward........

And, do it against pitching...Whiffle balls in the yard work just fine....

If those kids can't understand what I'm saying, then, they sure as heck would be confused by someone one part of the swing, then another......


I agree with alot of what you say but this I completely disagree with.SORRY


I have taught a few things and have been associated with a WORLD class teacher in another sport(his students hold WORLD RECORDS and I assure you,he breaks things down into steps as do I.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by noreast:
If you load/unload the lower body properly, the hips will only do one thing. You talk about not clouding kids minds. Then, why do you?


What if you don't do it properly?

Will you then teach them how to do it properly?

How will you break it down so they do it properly?
Last edited by tfox
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
I don't think u grasp the concept of running start....

The front hip should open during the stride......If it doesn't, you're not getting a running start...




The "running start" of the hips starts with an inward turn of the hips. This way the hips are moving before the stride even starts. What you describe is just the start of the swing.
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
Tripledad
quote:
btw, in my experience most young ones over stride more often than no stride. Creates serious balance issues, wieght forward etc...One of the easy ones to fix though.

I have tought kids that have had stride issues as it relates to timing. This is hard and frustrating to correct. Some kids have a lot of trouble comprehending the timing aspect of the stride. Just takes a lot of reps. Sometime have to go to a very very small stride and just let the kid "find it" through reps. When you run into one of these you will know it, frustrating...kinda of like working with the lightning fast hands pull hitter kid..frustrating...takes patients.


I agree. IMO young hitters who overstride often times do so in relation to timing. Its very difficult to tell a young anxious hitter to wait on a pitch that is traveling 30-40 mph with a huge hump in it. They often times try to wait by continuing thier stride for what feels like an eternity.

My sons stride shortens up pretty quick as soon as I put more velo on my bp. Many coaches attempt to throw slower to kids in order to help them make contact...Try throwing just hard enough to take the hump out of the pitch. Flattening out the plane of the pitch makes it easier for young hitters to make contact.
T TripleDad500+ posts
quote:
Flattening out the plane of the pitch makes it easier for young hitters to make contact.


Absolutly! Also a good natural athlete will adjust to the slow pitch and lower his shoulder to get on the plane of the ball. To avoid this keep enough speed so it is flat. If they are 5 or older, don't worry about timing, with enough reps they will catch up to it. It also helps to get back further, you may have to throw it harder to keep it flat, but the extra look time for the kid still helps.
S switchitter100+ posts
I would like someone to break-down Josh Vitters' swing. He was drafted by the Cubs with the 3rd or 2nd overall pick this year.
Anyway, it has been stated that he has a beautiful compact swing. I see perhaps a bit of "tipping" but I'm not sure. Anyway, if someone can tell us why this is a "swing of beauty" I would love your input. Here is the link to Josh Vitters...the hitting comes just after his fielding at 3rd base.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/media/player/mp_tpl....mv&type=v_free&_mp=1
Last edited by switchitter
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
Not a guru, but these threads have been very slow, so I am going to jump in! He shows very quick hands, especially as the hitting sequence gets going. Nice Balance and a nice repeatable swing. His size at 6'3" and weight at 200 probably enhance his batspeed with quite a bit of power.

Looking at your public profile, I would think that you are better qualified than I to break the swing down though.
Last edited by floridafan
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by switchitter:
I would like someone to break-down Josh Vitters' swing. He was drafted by the Cubs with the 3rd or 2nd overall pick this year.
Anyway, it has been stated that he has a beautiful compact swing. I see perhaps a bit of "tipping" but I'm not sure. Anyway, if someone can tell us why this is a "swing of beauty" I would love your input. Here is the link to Josh Vitters...the hitting comes just after his fielding at 3rd base.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/media/player/mp_tpl....mv&type=v_free&_mp=1




I would say he uses his hand and forearms really well, but I think he could get a little more out of his legs. He finishes a little too straight up for me to call it a thing of beauty, but that is in the eye of the beholder. I would say he got drafted because of his size and they think they can improve his swing.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Vitters was considered the most “polished” of all high school hitters in his class. I don’t care for that video because we’ve seen him look better. He showed the ability to hit the top pitchers and hardest throwers in high school with authority and power. This includes the highest level PG events, Area Codes and AFLAC. In fact he hit three doubles off of three different first round draft picks in the Aflac game. His swing can best be described as “easy”!

Josh Vitters is a natural hitter. Hitting is the hardest thing to “project”! So when you see a high school hitter drafted early in the first round, they’re not thinking about what they need to teach him in order for him to improve. They’re just hoping he continues to hit like they think he will.

With Vitters the beauty isn't neccessarily the swing, but it's the consistent results of that swing.
S switchitter100+ posts
quote:

I would say he uses his hand and forearms really well, but I think he could get a little more out of his legs. He finishes a little too straight up for me to call it a thing of beauty, but that is in the eye of the beholder. I would say he got drafted because of his size and they think they can improve his swing.


Actually, they (scouts and Cubs) think his swing is amazing now. As an example....he did a quick try-out for Larry Bowa & Manny Acta, stepped in the BP cage and proceeded to hit 13 straight shots over the fence....ALL OVER THE FENCE. Knowing he didn't have a high enough draft pick Larry said, "Ok, I've seen enough, get him outta here!!!".....funny stuff.
Last edited by switchitter
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Vitters was considered the most “polished” of all high school hitters in his class. I don’t care for that video because we’ve seen him look better. He showed the ability to hit the top pitchers and hardest throwers in high school with authority and power. This includes the highest level PG events, Area Codes and AFLAC. In fact he hit three doubles off of three different first round draft picks in the Aflac game. His swing can best be described as “easy”!

Josh Vitters is a natural hitter. Hitting is the hardest thing to “project”! So when you see a high school hitter drafted early in the first round, they’re not thinking about what they need to teach him in order for him to improve. They’re just hoping he continues to hit like they think he will.

With Vitters the beauty isn't neccessarily the swing, but it's the consistent results of that swing.




Yeah, I would say he would be consistent with those hands and forearms. Short, quick, strong hands. Just down't look all that pretty in the video to me.
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
quote:
Anyway, if someone can tell us why this is a "swing of beauty" I would love your input.


Results. IMO A-rod doesnt have a swing of beauty, but the results are great. Same applies for Mike Schmidt IMO.

I coached against Vitters in '06 at the area code games. The AC games and AFLAC had some very good looking hitters in that class...Vitters being one of them.


A few others from that class:
Michael Moustakas
Robert Stock
Nick Noonan
Cameron Rupp
Freddie Freeman
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
quote:
would say he uses his hand and forearms really well, but I think he could get a little more out of his legs. He finishes a little too straight up for me


As PGstaff suggests this may not be representative of his swing. I do agree with Mcmeister though and believe that he would do better to get his "legs in the game", at least as far as the video refrenced goes. I would be surprised if he consistanty hit with such an upright approach, and would expect to see those legs at work for him in additional video.
Last edited by floridafan
S switchitter100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by floridafan:
quote:
would say he uses his hand and forearms really well, but I think he could get a little more out of his legs. He finishes a little too straight up for me


As PGstaff suggests this may not be representative of his swing. I do agree with Mcmeister though and believe that he would do better to get his "legs in the game", at least as far as the video refrenced goes. I would be surprised if he consistanty hit with such an upright approach, and would expect to see those legs at work for him in additional video.


Can someone supply additional video of him where he is using more of his legs? That would be good to see. Pujols really uses his legs (back elbow and back leg aligned at point of contact I believe)
Last edited by switchitter
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