A long time ago someone told me (it was probably TPM) that you might want to read the bio of the poster you are replying to before you take an argumentative position. I have found that to be sage advice.
@TPM posted:If your son is an outfielder whose team plays at Clemson you will have the experience of a lifetime of getting heckled from the student section in the outfield called the Cheap Seats. And if you play for South Carolina you will be the recipient of some very, very ugly comments. It's all in good fun though and part of the game and happens all the time.
However you have mentioned that comments were made from parents from the same HS and travel team as your son.
This is not college or professional ball. This IS NEVER appropriate in my mind, just classless.
Who does this thing? I guess parents who are totally insecure and probably chew out their OWN players if they don't play to their satisfaction. I would bet anyone on that.
Ignore opposing team comments but comments from your son's own team PARENTS, I would either confront them or let the coach know. I agree with what has been said about mutual respect towards each other on the same team. Your son should not have to be treated in that way by adults who should know better.
FWIW, I got what your saying.
Nice insight. Thank you.
@anotherparent posted:We all agree that this is very weird and not normal. No-one doubts that part. Is this guy's son a starter? is yours? are they competing for time? Is it just your son, or does he heckle others? Your son is a junior, so you should know some of the other parents - do they notice?
There are examples (on this site) of parents fighting coaches in the parking lot, parents getting kicked out of games by umpires, parents getting arrested, violence at home, drunk parents fighting in the stands, etc. Most of us are saying, best for you to stay away from it. If it bothered your son, have him talk to the coach. I agree that if it gets worse, something will have to be done.
My son is a starter pitcher on varsity. The hecklers kid is a JV position player, not at all a pitcher.
So while technically not teammates right now, the boys have been club teammates for the past 4 summers and were on JV together last year.
The hecklers son prob should be on varsity but has had academic and behavioral issues over the years, so I'm guessing that's why they kept him down but I don't really know.
Other parents seem to like that dad, except for the family of the other 2023 varsity starter.
Bullies are usually popular, right?
@BaseballBUDDY posted:Heckling can be administratively dealt with. Read the league rules and call in the officials (on or off the field).
I saw a pitcher request the removal of an opposing players fan (parent). The game official gave 1 warning (in the rule book) and had the opposing head coach escort the jerk to the parking lot.
Next step was a forfeit.
Coming from a hockey background, I’ve witnessed more than verbal abuse from opposing and team parents.
We had an enforcer assigned to control the team families due to pre and post game brawls.
Being an African American player, my son has continuously rec’d the ire of players and opposing fans with comments that had nothing to do with game play.
Getting a tougher skin is not an answer.
Responsible Parents and Officials need to do more than sit back and watch this poor behavior.
Exactly.
Excellent insight. Thank you.
@JETSR71 posted:Always told my kids that the heckling was because someone was afraid of them. They were trying to get them off their game because they were too good. In the middle of a game, I would yell "listen to the other team cheering for you."
I realize this was from his own team parents which makes it weird.
I think the quote from Daryl Waltrip was, "when they stop booing you, it's time to retire."
You seem to dislike "get a thicker skin" or "suck it up cupcake." Try doing it with attitude. Embrace the comments and shove it down their throats. Politely.
Will do! Thank you.
@SpeedDemon my kids all played basketball and basketball fans are brutal. But basketball parents are worse. My daughter’s HS was frequently top 20 nationally and her freshmen year they had an away tournament that we could not afford to go to. We watched the live stream. The parents that were there didn’t realize that someone was recording right behind them with the sound on. The game was tied with 40 seconds left and the comments started. Derogatory comments about how skinny she was and what she looked like dribbling and why she was getting put in the game. It was ridiculous. For their/my protection, my husband never let me sit with the parents that whole year because he was afraid of what i would say to them about themselves. We never told her and they never said anything to her but over time she grew to not like those parent because of their general behavior. They just weren’t happy people. The stuff I would hear boys basketball parents say about other kids was even worse. And they were loud about it. I will be fair, none of them called either of my kids out to get their attention to heckle them incessantly in the middle of a game and I do think that Is where a line is crossed.
@ReluctantO'sFan posted:Who does this kind of thing? Losers
Why? Because they are losers
What do they expect to accomplish? maybe vindication, but who cares
Who benefits from telling me and my son to get thicker skin? You and your son
Hope this helps in answering your questions, and trust me the higher he goes the worse it gets..... FWIW you have been given honest, free advise from ladies and gentleman that have had and/or currently have kids at all levels of baseball (youth-HS-College-Pro). Let that sink in for a minute.
Got it.
Just so you know - I played college sports. I'm not so naive to think that heckling and even harassment won't happen, from teammates and opponents. But in this case, an adult, a parent in his HS, badgering and heckling/harassing a 16 year old through the fence during a home game seems like crossing a line.
The consensus opinion is to do nothing. With confronting the guy a close second.
But the problem with doing nothing is that nothing happens, and the heckler feels emboldened to heckle my son or someone else again. And then, maybe, again. And again. I think we can all agree that this behavior will stop eventually, but where? Someone has to step up, eventually. Right?
@PTWood posted:@SpeedDemon my kids all played basketball and basketball fans are brutal. But basketball parents are worse. My daughter’s HS was frequently top 20 nationally and her freshmen year they had an away tournament that we could not afford to go to. We watched the live stream. The parents that were there didn’t realize that someone was recording right behind them with the sound on. The game was tied with 40 seconds left and the comments started. Derogatory comments about how skinny she was and what she looked like dribbling and why she was getting put in the game. It was ridiculous. For their/my protection, my husband never let me sit with the parents that whole year because he was afraid of what i would say to them about themselves. We never told her and they never said anything to her but over time she grew to not like those parent because of their general behavior. They just weren’t happy people. The stuff I would hear boys basketball parents say about other kids was even worse. And they were loud about it. I will be fair, none of them called either of my kids out to get their attention to heckle them incessantly in the middle of a game and I do think that Is where a line is crossed.
Sorry that happened to you and your family.
Thank you for the insight.
@SpeedDemon posted:But the problem with doing nothing is that nothing happens, and the heckler feels emboldened to heckle my son or someone else again. And then, maybe, again. And again. I think we can all agree that this behavior will stop eventually, but where? Someone has to step up, eventually. Right?
Is this bothering you, or your son? If your son, he should say something to a coach. If he's not comfortable talking to the head coach, maybe the pitching coach. Since the guy's kid is not on the team, it wouldn't be perceived as a competition thing within the team.
The fact that the heckler's son, a junior, is on j.v. may certainly explain some of this.
If this is bothering you but not your son, then it's a different issue. I would not make it a problem for your son, if really it's your problem. Sit with the parents who don't like the heckler, and ignore the bully and his pals.
Come to Tim's school of flame throwing and he will teach you how to deal with these parents....
Tim
@SpeedDemon posted:My son is a starter pitcher on varsity. The hecklers kid is a JV position player, not at all a pitcher.
So while technically not teammates right now, the boys have been club teammates for the past 4 summers and were on JV together last year.
The hecklers son prob should be on varsity but has had academic and behavioral issues over the years, so I'm guessing that's why they kept him down but I don't really know.
Other parents seem to like that dad, except for the family of the other 2023 varsity starter.
Bullies are usually popular, right?
Those "other parents" likely turn away after the brief conversation with this guy and mutter under their breath, "What a jack@$$". They do what you are having trouble doing.... ignoring it and move on with everyday life. It really isn't worth your time. A wise man (my father - RIP) once told me to never knowing engage in an argument with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then proceed to beat you with experience.
@SpeedDemon posted:Got it.
Just so you know - I played college sports. I'm not so naive to think that heckling and even harassment won't happen, from teammates and opponents. But in this case, an adult, a parent in his HS, badgering and heckling/harassing a 16 year old through the fence during a home game seems like crossing a line.
The consensus opinion is to do nothing. With confronting the guy a close second.
But the problem with doing nothing is that nothing happens, and the heckler feels emboldened to heckle my son or someone else again. And then, maybe, again. And again. I think we can all agree that this behavior will stop eventually, but where? Someone has to step up, eventually. Right?
I totally understand what you're saying here. When a middle-aged man is randomly screaming at your child, who is on the same team no less, it's hard to handle. This isn't college or pro ball, it's not the other team's fans, etc. It's totally out of line, and probably a comment borne from jealousy or stupidity (of which there is plenty to go around these days).
The issue becomes, does speaking up do you any good? It may be the right thing to do, but it could also become a he said/he said situation that the coach would rather not get involved in. If the jackass parent is more "politically connected" and has a lot of friends, you or your son might end up in a worse situation than you are now. None of this is fair but it is life. I would consider all of that carefully before you say anything.
@SpeedDemon posted:The consensus opinion is to do nothing. With confronting the guy a close second.
But the problem with doing nothing is that nothing happens, and the heckler feels emboldened to heckle my son or someone else again. And then, maybe, again. And again. I think we can all agree that this behavior will stop eventually, but where? Someone has to step up, eventually. Right?
Yes, I agree with this 100%. No HS player in any sport should be called out by a parent. If this guy is doing it to your son, he is or will be doing it to others.
Trust me if I were in your shoes, this guy would be toast. But you need to have that conversation with your son on how to handle it.
That would be the fair thing to do.
On our Summer Teams, we always enjoyed the player who father was a Policeman. When a fan "heckled" our players, I requested that the Policeman sit next to the "heckler". After that NO more "heckle"!
Bob
@PTWood posted:@SpeedDemon my kids all played basketball and basketball fans are brutal. But basketball parents are worse. My daughter’s HS was frequently top 20 nationally and her freshmen year they had an away tournament that we could not afford to go to. We watched the live stream. The parents that were there didn’t realize that someone was recording right behind them with the sound on. The game was tied with 40 seconds left and the comments started. Derogatory comments about how skinny she was and what she looked like dribbling and why she was getting put in the game. It was ridiculous. For their/my protection, my husband never let me sit with the parents that whole year because he was afraid of what i would say to them about themselves. We never told her and they never said anything to her but over time she grew to not like those parent because of their general behavior. They just weren’t happy people. The stuff I would hear boys basketball parents say about other kids was even worse. And they were loud about it. I will be fair, none of them called either of my kids out to get their attention to heckle them incessantly in the middle of a game and I do think that Is where a line is crossed.
And this is why my son's school mutes the live stream (upon my suggestion).
@stranded1 posted:I totally understand what you're saying here. When a middle-aged man is randomly screaming at your child, who is on the same team no less, it's hard to handle. This isn't college or pro ball, it's not the other team's fans, etc. It's totally out of line, and probably a comment borne from jealousy or stupidity (of which there is plenty to go around these days).
The issue becomes, does speaking up do you any good? It may be the right thing to do, but it could also become a he said/he said situation that the coach would rather not get involved in. If the jackass parent is more "politically connected" and has a lot of friends, you or your son might end up in a worse situation than you are now. None of this is fair but it is life. I would consider all of that carefully before you say anything.
Yes, that's exactly what we were thinking. The other family goes out of their way to be popular, host parties, etc.
Prob not worth it to speak up right now, unless the exact opportunity presented itself.
Thank you.
@ReluctantO'sFan posted:Those "other parents" likely turn away after the brief conversation with this guy and mutter under their breath, "What a jack@$$". They do what you are having trouble doing.... ignoring it and move on with everyday life. It really isn't worth your time. A wise man (my father - RIP) once told me to never knowing engage in an argument with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then proceed to beat you with experience.
Your father was a wise man.
The guy is a classic abuser...rips into people one second, smiles and offers them a beer the next.
We've not fallen for it. Quite a while ago, we cut off any interaction with that family, social consequences be damned. Which is why I think he went directly at my son.
@TimtheEnchanter posted:Come to Tim's school of flame throwing and he will teach you how to deal with these parents....
Tim
sign me up
@anotherparent posted:Is this bothering you, or your son? If your son, he should say something to a coach. If he's not comfortable talking to the head coach, maybe the pitching coach. Since the guy's kid is not on the team, it wouldn't be perceived as a competition thing within the team.
The fact that the heckler's son, a junior, is on j.v. may certainly explain some of this.
If this is bothering you but not your son, then it's a different issue. I would not make it a problem for your son, if really it's your problem. Sit with the parents who don't like the heckler, and ignore the bully and his pals.
Nailed it.
Thanks.
As to, "Who benefits from the advice 'you gotta get thicker skin'?"
The answer is, your son does. And you, too.
This sort of thing happens in all walks of life. A young man needs to learn better ways to deal with this than to have his parents turn momentary, stupid comments into a protracted argument.
I can tell you, if I had ever suggested I would so such a thing on my son's behalf, he would've been livid with me. He would never have wanted anyone thinking he needed mom or dad to fight his battles for him.
That's what bothered me most about the original post. It set out seeking validation for wanting to go all helicopter parent here. It seems the OP is still looking for that validation. I hope no one here gives it, as this is the wrong path.
Sometimes I think parents forget how resilient kids are and how quickly they get over issues and move on. Back in high school I was really pissed off at how my son’s coach showed up my son soph year. A couple of days later I mentioned it to my son. His response …
Get over it! I have. Dwelling on it can only get in the ways of my goals.
A lot of really good advice in this thread. The only thing maybe I could add (if this situation has bothered your son) is empower your child to be "disrespectful" to an adult. Some kids need permission. Tell him it's ok to give the WTF face and turn around ignoring him while he speaks. No words, just making it clear his (the dad's) comments are not welcome.
Or less confrontational: if that dad ever calls him over tell him to go stand right next to a coach. Likely the coach will ask your son what's going on. He can respond "I don't know, he yells at me so I don't want to go over there"
Is the culture at your school good other than this father?
@SpeedDemon posted:OK.
Will just remind everyone that this was a 50+ yr old man targeting a 16 yr old, in the middle of a HS game; not drunk college kids heckling a peer. This man called out multiple times to my son, got his attention, and proceeded to berate him, during a game.
***********************
Who benefits from the advice "you gotta get thicker skin"?
Perhaps you quoted the wrong post?
@RoadRunner posted:
Perhaps you quoted the wrong post?
@LousyLefty posted:A lot of really good advice in this thread. The only thing maybe I could add (if this situation has bothered your son) is empower your child to be "disrespectful" to an adult. Some kids need permission. Tell him it's ok to give the WTF face and turn around ignoring him while he speaks. No words, just making it clear his (the dad's) comments are not welcome.
Or less confrontational: if that dad ever calls him over tell him to go stand right next to a coach. Likely the coach will ask your son what's going on. He can respond "I don't know, he yells at me so I don't want to go over there"
Is the culture at your school good other than this father?
Yeah, thanks.
The culture is quite good, except IMO for this one dad.
I hate to say that I've seen it all because that is an impossibility. However, I've seen a lot. A few years ago, we had two pitchers who were really close in ability. (Softball) During a game against a tough conference opponent, the young lady in the circle broke down crying. I was in the dugout calling pitches so I was tucked in some so the other team could not see me. I walk out to the mound and the pitcher tells me that the dad and mom of the other pitcher are mocking her, pointing at her and trying to distract her when she was pitching. I asked the SS if this was happening since I had never experienced this before. The SS told me it was actually worse than what the pitcher said. I went to the backstop told these parents to get out of the complex or I would go to the AD/School Board and have them barred from all athletic events at the school. Note, I've been where I am for a very long time now. They left but demanded a meeting with the AD. In this meeting, they said that it is a free country and they can do what they want at the game. After hearing that, the AD went to the school board and had both of them banned from all athletic events.
As a parent, when my daughter was playing in college, we went to a conference rival where the cheering section and parents were brutal. They were very unkind to my daughter. We were told by that school's AD that fans from both teams were expected to stay on the side of the stands where the team was. For both my daughter's junior and senior years, this didn't go well for that team. I'll leave it at that.
@SpeedDemon posted:
I guess I will draw you a “picture.”
My “+1” comment indicates that my kid acts the same way as RJMson. I never said “grow a thicker skin”. Not my style of comment.
Attachments
Images (1)
Late to the party...
IMO the time to address the adult negatively talking directly to your son during the game was when it happened. I’m shocked that nobody spoke up, I’m confident that many of the regulars on this board would have jumped in – I’m certain I would have.
Since it’s after the fact, my thought is to work with you son and determine how he’d like it handled. I’d also cover what he’d like you to do if there’s a repeat performance and respect his choices.
This was just reported yesterday:
"N.J. lawmaker planning bill to address explosion of bad behavior on sports fields"
Appalled by increasingly bad behavior on sports fields across the state, a New Jersey Assemblywoman is planning legislation that would protect athletes, coaches and referees from unruly sideline conduct, NJ Advance Media has learned.
Vicky Flynn (R-Monmouth), a mother of three young athletes and first-term Assemblywoman, has been studying fan behavior for months after witnessing several incidents of wild conduct on the sidelines of her children’s games.
Flynn hopes to introduce legislation later this year, she said, after seeking input from other lawmakers, professional athletes and youth and high school sports organizations.
“I want to push legislation to protect kids from these environments that are not conducive to their emotional and mental well-being,” Flynn told NJ Advance Media. “We put kids in sports to create an environment in which they can become stronger individuals for life, and instead they’re exposed to an environment from time to time that undermines all that good intention.”
Flynn’s plans for legislation come a day after NJ Advance Media published a report detailing an explosion of bad behavior on sports fields across the state. For example, in July 2021, players flooded the bleachers and threw punches after fans tossed beer on them during a minor league baseball game in Little Falls. In February 2022, an adult fan stormed the floor and shoved a coach during the middle of a high school basketball game in Jersey City. In September 2021, a Little League game in Hunterdon County was cancelled mid-game as parents and a 20-year-old umpire traded curse words in front of dozens of bewildered 10-year-olds.
Just what we need, another law...
On this site you will always get a variety of responses because everyone is different as is their own experiences. In my opinion some stories are not always revelant to every situation. This has been the case here. I wouldn't be interested in hearing about college or professional insults while my son was in HS. Its not revelant to what is happening now.
In the many years that we have been watching son play and coach baseball from youth to travel to HS to college to pro to coaching, I can recall only a few incidents where an ADULT has been out of control, and most of those involved alcohol. I agree that heckling is part of the game. And without a doubt you will get adults who gossip about players (BTW moms are the worst at this).
Once again an adult calling out a young player is totally unacceptable and despite what others have suggested should never be ignored, team parent or not. For those who tell you to get over it, move on and it will get worse, I do not agree. This is the problem we have today, we ignore bad behavior and don't reward the good as much as we should. So we end up with a bunch of idiots who think they can be abusive to our youth. Sad.
I understand that this has upset you enough to seek advice. I am upset for you and your son and once again in my mind and experience its not common and not acceptable.
Don't be afraid to talk to your son. Discuss what's happened and find out how he feels. Make a plan for if it happens again.
And please don't think that it gets worse as your son moves up the ladder because in most places it doesn't.
I think that the most abuse son ever got was in AA with the Tigers in Erie, PA while in the bull pen. Fans love to dish out nasty stuff to the relievers and they hurl it right back. All in good fun. For an enjoyable read I suggest The Bullpen Gospels by Dirk Hayhurst for a fun read.
Good luck to your son and enjoy the ride.
@Smitty28 posted:Just what we need, another law...
I heard she is going present legislation to ban chewing with an open mouth...I am doomed
Re: Erie
Theres something in the water in Pennsylvania. Supposedly the nastiness place on earth is the visitors bullpen in Philadelphia. Fans hang over the edge from the walkway behind and hurl insults at the bullpen.
I don't know @RJM, the Fenway visitor bullpen was pretty awesome when I was growing up in the late 80's. My dad would try to act offended and tell us it was wrong, but occasionally something so insulting and funny was said he would die laughing. At some point the Red Sox finally started putting a security guard there.
@RJM posted:Re: Erie
Theres something in the water in Pennsylvania. Supposedly the nastiness place on earth is the visitors bullpen in Philadelphia. Fans hang over the edge from the walkway behind and hurl insults at the bullpen.
These were not visiting teams fans but there own locals.
This starts at 8U ... True Story - I was doing an 8u charity tournament game last summer. Pop up ti the infield I hear an adult behind the backstop yell "drop it". I called time - then dressed down the whole crew. Something along the lines that whoever said that should be ashamed of themselves - any further comments and all parents would be ejected from the complex. Not a peep after that.
@TPM posted:These were not visiting teams fans but there own locals.
The rowdiest night I’ve ever been at the ballpark was a night in Modesto. It was much worse than any Red Sox - Yankees game. I was staying overnight in the Central Valley a couple of days. When I was out of town and didn’t want to hang in my room I often went to sporting events.
The Palm Springs Angels we’re playing the Modesto A’s. So the rivalry went from A ball to MLB in the fan’s minds. It was also Fifty Cents Union Night. For union members tickets, hot dogs and beers were fifty cents.
Stereotyping, at the time the Central Valley was white rednecks and Mexican farm workers. The 3B for the Angels was Latino and a hot dog. Once the rednecks got started he egged them on. He must have been used to it playing in the California League. The fans were vicious towards him. There wasn’t a nasty term for a Latino/Mexican left unused.
On the baseball side I watched two pitchers head into the 9th with no hitters. One pitcher got his no hitter. The other gave up a bomb in the 9th.
@NewUmpire posted:This starts at 8U ... True Story - I was doing an 8u charity tournament game last summer. Pop up ti the infield I hear an adult behind the backstop yell "drop it". I called time - then dressed down the whole crew. Something along the lines that whoever said that should be ashamed of themselves - any further comments and all parents would be ejected from the complex. Not a peep after that.
True story, Coaching 9u Travel several years ago. We were beating a very good (large organization) team. My SS started having one of those innings when everything goes wrong. If you've been around baseball long enough you'll know what it means when "the ball will find you". After his 3rd or 4th error in a row, he was rattled (9 years old for crying out-loud). I called time and went out to talk with the infield/pitcher. I was just trying to change the vibe and get some 9 years old's back to playing baseball for some fun. While half-way to the mound I notice my SS was crying underneath his pulled down hat. This kid never cried, so I knew there was something more to it. I huddled everybody together and asked what was going on.... It's just a baseball game no need to get this upset. My son, who happened to be pitching, said he isn't upset about the mistakes it's that guy over there yelling at him. I was far enough away that I couldn't hear it, but he was heckling our team and once the SS made the first error he was laying into the kids. While usually a very calm person, I have to admit in that moment I saw RED. I calmly walked up to the opposing coach and pointed out the dad of my SS (6'5" 275lb farm-boy) and I said to him, "you better tell that @$$hole to start running". Not my most shining moment, but you know he didn't say another word. We won that game by the way.
@RJM posted:The rowdiest night I’ve ever been at the ballpark was a night in Modesto. It was much worse than any Red Sox - Yankees game. I was staying overnight in the Central Valley a couple of days. When I was out of town and didn’t want to hang in my room I often went to sporting events.
The Palm Springs Angels we’re playing the Modesto A’s. So the rivalry went from A ball to MLB in the fan’s minds. It was also Fifty Cents Union Night. For union members tickets, hot dogs and beers were fifty cents.
Stereotyping, at the time the Central Valley was white rednecks and Mexican farm workers. The 3B for the Angels was Latino and a hot dog. Once the rednecks got started he egged them on. He must have been used to it playing in the California League. The fans were vicious towards him. There wasn’t a nasty term for a Latino/Mexican left unused.
On the baseball side I watched two pitchers head into the 9th with no hitters. One pitcher got his no hitter. The other gave up a bomb in the 9th.
Not sure what this has to do with the point that I was trying to make to the OP of this topic as to what might be acceptable fun behavior at a different level rather than a 50 year old heckling a HS sophomore.
The general theme of this thread has turned into “heckling” which everyone has had some experience with. So comments about that come from all perspectives.