Am I understanding this correctly? If you played D3 last spring and if you play this coming spring, neither count against your eligibility?
So, if you played D3 last spring as a Freshman, you get 6 years of baseball eligibility...2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025?
Or, am I not understanding it?
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Was there something announced today regarding Spring 2021?
As it stands D3 Spring athletes retain a year of eligibility from Spring of 2020. So, in theory a Freshman could play 5 years.
http://www.ncaa.org/about/reso...athletes?division=d3
All Division III student-athletes are able to participate in athletics during this academic year without being charged a season of participation or semesters of eligibility.
The Division III Presidents Council approved the blanket waiver recommendation from the Division III Management Council on Wednesday.
The blanket waiver allows student-athletes to compete up to the established dates of competition/contest maximums without being charged a season of intercollegiate participation or a term of attendance for any term (semester/quarter) during the 2020-21 academic year in which they are eligible for competition.
“This one-time waiver provides our students the flexibility and clarity now to make the necessary decisions for their academic and athletic experiences,” said Tori Murden McClure, chair of the Presidents Council and president at Spalding. “We continue to see the impacts the COVID-19 pandemic is having on our student-athletes and membership, and the Presidents Council unanimously concluded this recommendation was appropriate.”
The recommendation does not serve as a rationale for future reduced enrollment by student-athletes. Student-athletes benefiting from this waiver are expected to adhere to full-time enrollment requirements in current and future academic years, consistent with the Division III philosophy.
Almost three-quarters of the Division III conferences recommended the season-of-participation blanket waiver, and it also was supported by several governance committees, including the Division III Student-Athlete Advisory Committee, before the Management Council approved the recommendation to the Presidents Council
I don’t understand why any player at any level would stay and play college ball unless they believe it’s enhancing their pro prospects or they planned to go to grad school. At some point a kid has to grow up, get a job and support themselves.:Going into Low A at twenty-three, twenty-four after five or six years of college isn’t typically a pro prospect booster.
@RJM posted:I don’t understand why any player at any level would stay and play college ball unless they believe it’s enhancing their pro prospects or they planned to go to grad school. At some point a kid has to grow up, get a job and support themselves.:Going into Low A at twenty-three, twenty-four after five or six years of college isn’t typically a pro prospect booster.
the school I went to (and a number of other schools in our conference) was NAIA but is now D3. we had a very well regarded (in state) law school and GSM and I had a couple of friend who played their redshirt senior year of football as first year law students.
The only way their colleges would let my D3 guys stay an extra year is if they don't have the required courses to graduate. The only way their dad would let them stay an extra year, gap year excepted, is if they pay their own way. When that happens, I'm going get my bait and tackle from Buck's Bait Shop when I go ice-fishing in Hell, Michigan.
@mattys posted:the school I went to (and a number of other schools in our conference) was NAIA but is now D3. we had a very well regarded (in state) law school and GSM and I had a couple of friend who played their redshirt senior year of football as first year law students.
As I posted ... or they plan to go to grad school.
Two things to consider:
1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.
2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.
I would argue more of the seniors are coming back because of a soft job market for recent grads than those trying to improve their draft prospects.
My son is planning on playing 5th year spring of 22 while in grad school...if he wants to play a 6th I probably won't complain. The funny thing is I am not sure he will want to do that, at some point they grow up, they want to be independent and take the next step, all the guys they came in with and played with are moving on but them...I think it is no better then a coin flip on him playing a 6th year and the cost of school has zero impact on the decision.
His class is gone, the class behind is mostly if not all gone, he is an old man with a bunch of kids essentially.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:I would argue more of the seniors are coming back because of a soft job market for recent grads than those trying to improve their draft prospects.
with a very rare exception (MAYBE a handful in the whole damn country) I would say draft prospects shouldn't be considered in any fashion for a D3 pitcher considering his playing options.
So "fourth year freshman" is a thing?
@Francis7 posted:Two things to consider:
1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.
2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.
At D3's, especially the HA D3's, it is entirely possible and expected to graduate in 4.
@SoCal OG posted:At D3's, especially the HA D3's, it is entirely possible and expected to graduate in 4.
Agreed, but I think it's mostly a state vs private thing. In the Cal State system, for example, the inability of students to get into all the classes they need to take in their major is one of the factors that makes graduating in 4 years difficult. In our experience, it is somewhat easier to graduate in 4 years from the UC system. At a HA private, if a student doesn't graduate in 4 years that's generally caused by his or her academic issues, or health, or changing majors.
@JCG posted:Agreed, but I think it's mostly a state vs private thing. In the Cal State system, for example, the inability of students to get into all the classes they need to take in their major is one of the factors that makes graduating in 4 years difficult. In our experience, it is somewhat easier to graduate in 4 years from the UC system. At a HA private, if a student doesn't graduate in 4 years that's generally caused by his or her academic issues, or health, or changing majors.
100%
@JCG posted:Agreed, but I think it's mostly a state vs private thing. In the Cal State system, for example, the inability of students to get into all the classes they need to take in their major is one of the factors that makes graduating in 4 years difficult. In our experience, it is somewhat easier to graduate in 4 years from the UC system. At a HA private, if a student doesn't graduate in 4 years that's generally caused by his or her academic issues, or health, or changing majors.
Or transfer?
So what is the point of this announcement? Are we to assume there is more to come? The 2021 season has not been officially cancelled....yet.
I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes. My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3. My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.
Good point. But again very different in public vs private.
@baseballhs posted:I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes. My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3. My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.
not sure how out of date this is but many moons ago, I started college at a small private university. there, your path to graduation was set and, as long as you kept passing classes or didn't double or triple major, finishing in 4 years was easily accomplished.
then, I got hurt, couldn't play ball any more and transferred to a large public university. There, they couldn't care less about how long it took you to graduate. you were just a number and, if you got your classes, you were good but if you didn't, you were screwed.
if it's anything similar now, i'd think the majority of the D3 guys can more easily finish on time so the decision to take advantage of the extra eligibility comes down to whether spending the extra tuition is worth it (or grad school/extra major/minor, etc).
@SoCal OG posted:So what is the point of this announcement? Are we to assume there is more to come? The 2021 season has not been officially cancelled....yet.
It's a head-scratcher. I could see this being interpreted in two very different ways.
The NCAA could be telling D3 ADs to go ahead and plan for a spring season without worrying about eligibility issues for this year’s players in the event that the season gets cut short. And/or they could plan a shortened "safer" schedule with less travel, knowing that the kids won't burn a year of eligibly.
Conversely, they could be saying go ahead and cancel your entire spring because none of your players are going to lose any eligibility.
I hope it's the former.
@Francis7 posted:Two things to consider:
1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.
2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.
My son is fortunate that he is still playing after D1 ball. About a couple of years ago he met up with several of his teammates who have graduated and moved on. He said a few were ready to move into their next chapter without baseball but many said it was a major adjustment. They loved the game, enjoyed the competition, the practices, being with the team, traveling, attention, hanging with friends and such. Their identity at the time was a baseball player, thus now a new identity had to be created. At first it was hard for me to relate but after thinking about it, yeah I understand where they are coming from. This is by no way a comparison to an athletic player but I know one day my time will come where I will no longer have the identity of being dad of player X. I do understand why it's difficult for 5th year seniors (or high school sr) to be reluctant about giving it up when their talent or success may not be at the top. Not saying financially or academically it may make sense but that's another discussion. I especially sympathize with the current athletes who may never get the opportunity to properly say farewell to their love of playing competitively.
@baseballhs posted:I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes. My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3. My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.
That's not a usual situation among baseball players. Some start with the minimum credits allowed, then you cannot graduate in 4 years if a player does that. It all depends on the division and as stated private vs public. And how good the athletic advisor is as well as the academic advisor for your degree.
@baseballhs posted:I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes. My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3. My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.
It depends on the school. My 3 kids all entered college with 8+ AP classes and they got 0 credits towards their degree. Their reward for taking the AP and passing the college's proficiency tests were that they got to take the advanced/sophomore level version of the class their freshman year, i.e. they were "rewarded" with a much more rigorous curriculum.
I really thought there would be baseball played in the Spring. I'm not so confident anymore. For a while now, my son has been saying "dad, we're not playing in the Spring", unfortunately, he may be right. I just cant believe we're still in the same situation. And please, please dont take this off into a political/virus discussion. We dont need anymore of that right now.
@MidAtlanticDad posted:It's a head-scratcher. I could see this being interpreted in two very different ways.
The NCAA could be telling D3 ADs to go ahead and plan for a spring season without worrying about eligibility issues for this year’s players in the event that the season gets cut short. And/or they could plan a shortened "safer" schedule with less travel, knowing that the kids won't burn a year of eligibly.
Conversely, they could be saying go ahead and cancel your entire spring because none of your players are going to lose any eligibility.
I hope it's the former.
They gave it to all Fall and winter sports and they are playing. I don't understand it. At all.
@old_school posted:Big don wins election the baseball season is saved!
I think you have that backwards. If he wins, there won’t be a full Baseball season until 2023 or 2024. Unchecked, the virus will be killing 5,000 people or more a day, or 5,000 to 15,000 per week at least. Schools won’t feel safe to be open or playing sports. Any sort of vaccine, if safe, is a good 18-24 months away from being fully distributed enough to effectively work across the full nation.
@3and2Fastball posted:I think you have that backwards. If he wins, there won’t be a full Baseball season until 2023 or 2024. Unchecked, the virus will be killing 5,000 people or more a day, or 5,000 per week at least. Schools won’t feel safe to be open or playing sports.
Here we go again with scare tactics. Do you think everyone is just going to stop doing things they are doing to make it go “unchecked”? Mortality rates are way down (I thought I heard 85%).
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Here we go again with scare tactics. Do you think everyone is just going to stop doing things they are doing to make it go “unchecked”? Mortality rates are way down (I thought I heard 85%).
It is completely unchecked right now, cases are skyrocketing.
Everyone? Or every school and conference? It is clear just based on the way conferences are reacting, without significant changes in leadership and with the way we combat this virus (see Canada and Australia as examples) the NCAA isn’t going to let things go back to “normal”
@3and2Fastball posted:Everyone? Or every school and conference?
Your statement included stats if the virus is unchecked, which it is currently being checked in some form or another. Do you think people will just stop these safety measures if Trump wins?
What should be done that isn’t already being done, and where? Please be specific.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Your statement included stats if the virus is unchecked, which it is currently being checked in some form or another. Do you think people will just stop these safety measures if Trump wins?
We are currently averaging 5,000-7,000 deaths per week right now. At least 40% of the population are not taking safety measures at all. And the NCAA is making decisions based on the reality of our current situation.
The numbers I posted are probably an extremely low estimate.
What I don’t understand is why anyone would think things will change if the President remains the same? There is zero evidence that the NCAA will allow things “back to normal” without significant changes in how we deal with the virus.
The President’s administration has been talking about allowing “herd immunity” to battle the virus. That means millions of people dead. And, again, no Baseball until 2023 or 2024.
Regardless of where you fall politically (I’m an Independent that leans conservative, for what it is worth) if you care about Baseball and our kids getting a chance to play, it is clear that things won’t change until leadership in our nation changes.
What should be done that isn’t being done, in order for there to be the best chances for NCAA Baseball to be played?
Nationwide mask mandates. Testing and tracing for the entire population. Leadership that doesn’t make the virus out to be “no big deal”. These are very simple steps that other countries have easily achieved.
I'm pretty excited to see the D3 athletics situation be so interrelated with the current political/public health climate. And people think a liberal arts education lacks relevance....
Exactly where I didnt want this to go...
@SoCal OG posted:Exactly where I didnt want this to go...
It is somewhat impossible to intelligently discuss the NCAA’s decisions without discussing the government’s approach to combating the virus.
It is possible that Trump will do a complete 180 in his leadership approach if re-elected. Almost anything is “possible”. Seems extremely unlikely though.
What does seem clear is that the NCAA is not going to do a complete 180 and simply allow things “back to normal” without significant improvements in how we as a nation deal with the pandemic. We are not “rounding the corner”, such comments are completely absurd. And the NCAA clearly sees things are getting worse.
@3and2Fastball posted:It is somewhat impossible to intelligently discuss the NCAA’s decisions without discussing the government’s approach to combating the virus.
It is possible that Trump will do a complete 180 in his leadership approach if re-elected. Almost anything is “possible”. Seems extremely unlikely though.
What does seem clear is that the NCAA is not going to do a complete 180 and simply allow things “back to normal” without significant improvements in how we as a nation deal with the pandemic. We are not “rounding the corner”, such comments are completely absurd. And the NCAA clearly sees things are getting worse.
You're watching too much CNN. 97% of the population have not gotten Covid, and of those who did the vast, vast majority (98%) haven't died or suffered any serious issues, and those that have were mostly old people.
@Trust In Him posted:My son is fortunate that he is still playing after D1 ball. About a couple of years ago he met up with several of his teammates who have graduated and moved on. He said a few were ready to move into their next chapter without baseball but many said it was a major adjustment. They loved the game, enjoyed the competition, the practices, being with the team, traveling, attention, hanging with friends and such. Their identity at the time was a baseball player, thus now a new identity had to be created. At first it was hard for me to relate but after thinking about it, yeah I understand where they are coming from. This is by no way a comparison to an athletic player but I know one day my time will come where I will no longer have the identity of being dad of player X. I do understand why it's difficult for 5th year seniors (or high school sr) to be reluctant about giving it up when their talent or success may not be at the top. Not saying financially or academically it may make sense but that's another discussion. I especially sympathize with the current athletes who may never get the opportunity to properly say farewell to their love of playing competitively.
Re new identity: My son at the first family Thanksgiving after college, baseball was over and he was working ...
“Damn! I’m as dull as the rest of you now!”
The point is, many D3 conferences will likely not have spring sports - some have already cancelled. So, the NCAA has already given the athletes back their eligibility. I think it does encourage other conferences to cancel also. And so yes, that means that rosters are going to be very packed at some schools, some (many?) athletes may take the spring semester off - why pay for online classes and no sports?
Putting aside the CNN/Fox dichotomy for a moment (and who's watching too much of either of them) what is the NCAA basing its decisions on?
@anotherparent posted:The point is, many D3 conferences will likely not have spring sports - some have already cancelled. So, the NCAA has already given the athletes back their eligibility. I think it does encourage other conferences to cancel also. And so yes, that means that rosters are going to be very packed at some schools, some (many?) athletes may take the spring semester off - why pay for online classes and no sports?
I'm trying to get my son to understand that. I know I can flat out tell him, but I'd rather he get there on his own.
@smokeminside posted:Putting aside the CNN/Fox dichotomy for a moment (and who's watching too much of either of them) what is the NCAA basing its decisions on?
On the fact that some conferences have already cancelled spring, and others are likely to do the same.
The question really is, when are these conferences going to make decisions about spring sports? Before or after Christmas break? If they bring students back and then cancel, that would be ugly.
@Smitty28 posted:You're watching too much CNN. 97% of the population have not gotten Covid, and of those who did the vast, vast majority (98%) haven't died or suffered any serious issues, and those that have were mostly old people.
CNN. As if. Look, it is really very simple:
The NCAA & Trump are not on the same page. Without a change in how we deal with the pandemic, the NCAA is not going to allow sports “as normal”. That is clear based on the reality of the NCAA’s decision making process so far.
The main thing is that “wishing” or “hoping” isn’t going to make the NCAA change its stance!
You might say “well I think the NCAA is being dumb”. OK, congrats to you, you successfully expressed an opinion. That won’t buy you a cup of coffee but hey, hey, good for you.
I’d rather deal with facts, not opinions. The fact is, without a change in how we deal with the pandemic, the NCAA isn’t allowing sports to get played as normal.
The NCAA is not saying anything about whether sports can be played. That's schools and conferences. The NCAA is simply saying that students get an extra year of eligibility. Maybe that encourages conferences to cancel, but it's not saying they have to.
It was the same for D1 football, it was up to the conferences. In fact it's the presidents of colleges who are being cautious, or not, depending on their individual and local circumstances. And even conferences are being constrained by the state laws, in many cases, even when the schools would rather do things differently. Even there, schools could lobby their local governments differently than they are, and that IS a choice.
@RJM posted:I went to a baseball discussion and a COVID brawl broke out ...
At least you picked the right team!
@anotherparent posted:The question really is, when are these conferences going to make decisions about spring sports? Before or after Christmas break? If they bring students back and then cancel, that would be ugly.
This is key. I know many players that will skip the Spring semester if still online AND no baseball, my son included.
@smokeminside posted:Putting aside the CNN/Fox dichotomy for a moment (and who's watching too much of either of them) what is the NCAA basing its decisions on?
fear, stupidity, wokeness....general over reaction without rational thought process.
We are going to spend the thanksgiving/xmas break this year hashing out the future for our son. A SR at a HA D3 -- he will graduate in May. Last two years of college ball pulled out from under him. That is a hard pill to swallow for anyone. Wondering if he'll do grad school and play or if he will just hang it up and move on. He is going to be a high school teacher -- and wants to coach. It will be very interesting to see how his thought process plays out.
@MAM posted:We are going to spend the thanksgiving/xmas break this year hashing out the future for our son. A SR at a HA D3 -- he will graduate in May. Last two years of college ball pulled out from under him. That is a hard pill to swallow for anyone. Wondering if he'll do grad school and play or if he will just hang it up and move on. He is going to be a high school teacher -- and wants to coach. It will be very interesting to see how his thought process plays out.
When son hung up the cleats he went back to finish school and was a student assistant with the baseball team. He loved it!
If he really wants to be a teacher and a coach and wants his master's degree, he should look into being a grad assistant somewhere or at his alma mater. He can still be a part of the game.
After approximately 9 years of pro ball, he hasnt looked back once.
MAM, I feel so bad for your son and the other college seniors. This slow-rolling disaster was so unexpected and is so painful. I hope he finds a good solution; getting the extra eligibility doesn't make up for the loss of the years.
Sorry, MAM, I feel you. Lots of families will be having similar conversations, including ours. It sucks.
@anotherparent posted:On the fact that some conferences have already cancelled spring, and others are likely to do the same.
The question really is, when are these conferences going to make decisions about spring sports? Before or after Christmas break? If they bring students back and then cancel, that would be ugly.
The problem is that colleges have to basically decide now on what they will do for the spring. And, they don't want to say "100% on campus in the spring" now and then deal with the backlash 3 months down the road or so when they may have to pivot to virtual and remote learning. Doing that on a dime is loaded with problems. So, you're going to see schools now say "we're remote in the spring and no spring sports." It seems inevitable, unfortunately. And, the baseball players are going to get hosed two years in a row in some states. That all said, I sincerely pray that I am wrong on this and there is college baseball in 2021.
@Francis7 posted:The problem is that colleges have to basically decide now on what they will do for the spring. And, they don't want to say "100% on campus in the spring" now and then deal with the backlash 3 months down the road or so when they may have to pivot to virtual and remote learning. Doing that on a dime is loaded with problems. So, you're going to see schools now say "we're remote in the spring and no spring sports." It seems inevitable, unfortunately. And, the baseball players are going to get hosed two years in a row in some states. That all said, I sincerely pray that I am wrong on this and there is college baseball in 2021.
I don't know about D3, but D1 schools and many D2 as well as Juco, give students options, remote or in class instruction. Because of this though, testing is essential, and some programs just cannot afford the expense.
As far as athletics, many teams are practicing, and playing (football).
Coaches and admins have fought so hard to keep players safe, but this current wave is now out of control. Football teams missing players they have depended upon. So with that in mind, it's really hard to tell what will be come January.
And deaths continue to be level or decrease. We've gotten much better at treating. The biggest issue will be over reacting and shutting down things. We can and have to learn to live with this.
I must be dreaming because I swore I watched all the major conferences play football today. Maybe I need to wake up from this dream. If football can play, why can't baseball until 2023 or 2024? I know no one who was not already critically facing another illness that has died from Covid. Yes it and the flu will cause many to die this winter who already had something. I'm not saying it does not happen but it was already happening and the number of total deaths in the US for year are not drastically up. And if you think sleepy Joe who can't remember who he is running against and his running mate who does not even know where she is can fix this mess any better then we have more problems than Covid.
@3and2Fastball posted:I think you have that backwards. If he wins, there won’t be a full Baseball season until 2023 or 2024. Unchecked, the virus will be killing 5,000 people or more a day, or 5,000 to 15,000 per week at least. Schools won’t feel safe to be open or playing sports. Any sort of vaccine, if safe, is a good 18-24 months away from being fully distributed enough to effectively work across the full nation.
I actually think Old School is right on this one. If Trump loses the election I think the likelihood of baseball in the spring becomes remote.
Football plays because $ say so.
Basketball will try, but be shut down by January end.
There will be no baseball in February, because there is no plan to deal with the coming winter flu season on top of the covid junk.
There may be baseball played in April and May. If the screwed up budgets don't override the desire.
Everybody gets 3 years back so they can play until age 29.
MLB see the success (defined by $) of the pay to play model for short season A ball . (Those teams that were eliminated in MiLB contraction who went to college wood bat league format.) MLB expands the model to High A level, with eyes on eventually eliminating AA as well.
And then the cycle is complete.
I don't think that schools can't play goes across the board. Some of you are only looking at your level of ball, which may be my observation. From my research, talking to players at various schools, 75% of players at 6 P5 schools for baseball have tested positive for Covid so there is very little chance that the number of people will be too high. i do think that the P5 schools will play this spring but who knows on some of the other levels. I think they will find a way to make it work. I would love to know what % of players at the schools that are consistently testing have tested positive. This will be the determining factor of what schools will play.
Well, this thread is about D3 schools. Not about COVID, not about the election, but about the fact that D3 athletes have been given another year of eligibility. We all know that, as they always do, P5 schools have put money ahead of the "student athlete" concept. Letting sports continue when students are banned from campus (e.g. UNC) is a mockery. The pandemic is making the differences between levels very stark. Doesn't mean that D3 kids don't want to play ball in the spring just as much as D1 kids.
D3 ballplayers adjusting to COVID 19.
D3 schools are the least likely to play baseball in the spring. You can debate all you want, and/or cite all the reasons it should not be - but it’s a fact. And the more liberal the school, the more likely they won’t play. It’s already been proven by the actions to date.
I don't disagree with the first point you make, Adbono. Regarding the 2nd, my son's school would not doubt count as liberal in your book, but if they are allowed to play, I'm convinced they will play. They take athletics very seriously. But it's not up to them. It's up to the state, the county, and their conference, in that order.
@JCG posted:I don't disagree with the first point you make, Adbono. Regarding the 2nd, my son's school would not doubt count as liberal in your book, but if they are allowed to play, I'm convinced they will play. They take athletics very seriously. But it's not up to them. It's up to the state, the county, and their conference, in that order.
That’s a fair point. A conservative school in a liberal state, in a conference with liberal schools may have limited say regarding their own fate. But IMO it’s been proven that baseball can be played safely. So if states & conferences decide they aren’t going to play baseball this spring it’s because they don’t want to.
If they are making the decision (whether from choice or local mandate) to bring only some students to live on campus, then having sports becomes very difficult. Even the most liberal schools are in extreme financial hardship because of this situation. They don't want to be having to do this.
I don't think it's that they can't afford sports, nor that they don't want to have them - it's that these are mostly schools where 95% of students live in dorms on campus. They think, or the state thinks, that they can't bring everyone back to the dorms. There's not enough off-campus accomodation nearby, and therefore how would they even test the off-campus people? How would you manage if half the team was in the dorms being tested all the time, and the other half wasn't?
@TPM posted:Is it that they dont want to or that they cant afford to?
You could probably make a case for either excuse. It saves the school money if they don’t play so IMO that would be why they don’t want to. But I’m sure they would not state that publicly.
@anotherparent posted:If they are making the decision (whether from choice or local mandate) to bring only some students to live on campus, then having sports becomes very difficult. Even the most liberal schools are in extreme financial hardship because of this situation. They don't want to be having to do this.
I don't think it's that they can't afford sports, nor that they don't want to have them - it's that these are mostly schools where 95% of students live in dorms on campus. They think,
or the state thinks, that they can't bring everyone back to the dorms. There's not enough off-campus accomodation nearby, and therefore how would they even test the off-campus people? How would you manage if half the team was in the dorms being tested all the time, and the other half wasn't?
THIS
I also agree that it's BS that a way to play can't be figured out. Athletics just isn't a high priority at these schools even though in my sons' cases 35% of the student body at one school are D3 athletes, and the other school has a student body that's 20% D3 athletes.
The impetus to play has to come from the players and the coaches but a difficult situation seems to be getting worse.
Has there been any talk of spring baseball leagues that players can join? A few travel organizations in FL have talked about putting something together if the HS season is shut down.
@Francis7 posted:Two things to consider:
1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.
2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.
@Francis7 I did 4 1/2 years in the 80's, but then again, the college I went to cost 3k for the entire year. Paid my own way after freshmen year because I messed up the spring semester of the freshman year.
Not focused, played Baseball, student lounge. etc.
Results 4 D's and a B.
Mother said I was a bad return on her investment.
Real talk.
Your mom was awesome
@old_school posted:Your mom was awesome
I talk about this lesson all the time.
Had to work at the Port Authority bus terminal as a red cap (moving passenger luggage) for 4 years, Worked the 4 - 12 shift.
For those that know NYC, the Port Authority is near Times Square, at the time, Time Square still had the smell of xxx.
Saw a lot of stuff, made me focus.
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:I talk about this lesson all the time.
Had to work at the Port Authority bus terminal as a red cap (moving passenger luggage) for 4 years, Worked the 4 - 12 shift.
For those that know NYC, the Port Authority is near Times Square, at the time, Time Square still had the smell of xxx.
Saw a lot of stuff, made me focus.
How'd you like The Deuce?
@SoCal OG posted:This is key. I know many players that will skip the Spring semester if still online AND no baseball, my son included.
I'm hearing that if the SCIAC plays there will be no spectators. 
As for skipping the spring, I don't know how it is at other schools, and obviously every family's situation is different, but last I heard there can be a severe financial cost if you do that at my son's school. Apparently the expected family contribution remains the same regardless of how many semesters you attend during an academic year. So if the total cost of attendance is $60K and your EFC is $30K, then you get a $30K award for the year, and you pay $30K. But if you do two semesters in two years, your EFC is $30K, and so is your TCA, so your FA award is $0 for each of the two years. And of course the kid is giving up one year's worth of earnings, though that could be moot in this economy.
@JCG posted:I'm hearing that if the SCIAC plays there will be no spectators.
As for skipping the spring, I don't know how it is at other schools, and obviously every family's situation is different, but last I heard there can be a severe financial cost if you do that at my son's school. Apparently the expected family contribution remains the same regardless of how many semesters you attend during an academic year. So if the total cost of attendance is $60K and your EFC is $30K, then you get a $30 award for the year, and you pay $30K. But if you do two semesters in two years, your EFC is $30K, and so is your TCA, so your FA award is $0 for each of the two years. And of course the kid is giving up one year's worth of earnings, though that could be moot in this economy.
Santa will have to leave me a really nice set of binoculars in my stocking then!
Good point about finances...not sure how many have looked that far yet.
@JCG posted:How'd you like The Deuce?
All that I can say is "The Freaks come out at night", but if you mind your business, respect people regardless of their situation, there were not problems.
The best time in the bus terminal occurred when students were going back to school.
The best bus lines were Adirondak Trialways, those girls were beautiful.
Shortline was also very good. (LOL)
New Paltz
Binghamton
Syracuse
Cornell
Man, we use to compete on how many telephone numbers we could get.
The Port Authority was one of the safest places.
Well, it's not any extra cost. If they say you pay $30,000 in one year, that's what you pay. You are out of pocket the same amount. It's just that you only get one semester of education for that money, instead of two, if he only is in school for one semester.
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:All that I can say is "The Freaks come out at night", but if you mind your business, respect people regardless of their situation, there were not problems.
The best time in the bus terminal occurred when students were going back to school.
The best bus lines were Adirondak Trialways, those girls were beautiful.
Shortline was also very good. (LOL)
New Paltz
Binghamton
Syracuse
Cornell
Man, we use to compete on how many telephone numbers we could get.
The Port Authority was one of the safest places.
I meant the TV show on HBO. Dunno about the stories and people but the feel of 80's NY and Times Square is dead on.
@anotherparent posted:Well, it's not any extra cost. If they say you pay $30,000 in one year, that's what you pay. You are out of pocket the same amount. It's just that you only get one semester of education for that money, instead of two, if he only is in school for one semester.
I'm apparently too financially clueless to understand your point.
In this example:
Senior son finishes his education in spring '21.
My cost at $30K per year x 4 = $120K.
Senior son takes off spring '21 and finishes in spring '22.
My cost at $30K per year x 5 = $150K.
??
Oh, and in this scenario, we would have already received an award of $15K for the fall semester of the current school year. I'm assuming that needs to be paid back.
Yes, sorry, complete brain freeze, of course your total out-of-pocket is more. The total cost of school is not more, but you will have gotten $30,000 less in financial aid, because they felt you could afford $30,000 per year for however many years it took.
Paying back the $15,000 from fall - I had not thought of that, that does seem unfair.
I know, right??
It's not my call, of course, but I'm thinking grad school makes more sense than taking another year to finish undergrad.
@JCG posted:I meant the TV show on HBO. Dunno about the stories and people but the feel of 80's NY and Times Square is dead on.
Yes. that was happening. They use to come through the Port Authority, but the Port Authority had their own police, so the Deuce stayed on the Deuce.
Use to hang out in the arcades for about 1 hour, 2 or 3 times per week.
Good times.
the most salient point here will there be a spring baseball season for anyone. Awarding extra year of eligibility for D3 athletes would signal an expected change to a typical season structure at the very least. National mask mandates (if legal) will not stop the virus. masks are being worn in many places widely, testing is widely available, and tracing occurs but limited due to personal liberties. These are talking points that will not necessarily change anything. Things could improve.. yes. but not go away. What needs to change is how the virus is perceived for a season to happen. The virus will spread, cases will be reported, but as long as hospitalizations and death remain muted, then we are progressing toward herd immunity. Millions of people will not die to reach herd immunity, that's political rhetoric. The new strain appears to be easier to spread but less virulent. More younger people are getting it and outcomes are more positive. With increased testing more asymptomatic cases are being picked up. The biggest change that a new president will have on this disease is the improved perception of it. There will not be a need to make this a political issue and exaggerate the dangers. However, the downside of a new president will be the big fear of lockdowns. A vaccine is imminent and likely available to the population in the spring. with that as a backstop and improved perceptions of the virus, and the fact that baseball was played safely in the summer and fall lead me to be confident in the spring. Likely an abridged season with less travel and perhaps a later start... but likely to happen. Those that will cancel will likely be driven by money or for HA, they dont need atheltics or in person schooling to maintain applicants. aka $$
@smokeminside posted:D3 ballplayers adjusting to COVID 19.
Poor buggers!
Yeah, he's in a lot of pain. The kid behind him is the starting RF and team's best power hitter. Also a senior and being recruited by NASA.
There's a huge NESCAC meeting tomorrow. Don't have my hopes up. Extremely irritating that there may well be some d3s playing this spring but the well-off high academic schools (which are incredibly image conscious) seem likely to pack it in as Swarthmore, for example, did.
@smokeminside posted:Yeah, he's in a lot of pain. The kid behind him is the starting RF and team's best power hitter. Also a senior and being recruited by NASA.
There's a huge NESCAC meeting tomorrow. Don't have my hopes up. Extremely irritating that there may well be some d3s playing this spring but the well-off high academic schools (which are incredibly image conscious) seem likely to pack it in as Swarthmore, for example, did.
Is the meeting to decide about the season? I wish these schools would wait just a bit longer before making decisions. Fauci even said that anyone who wants the vaccine will have it by April. It will be really interesting to see how long this wave lasts - if it's 4-6 weeks and multiple vaccines are rolled out at that time let's play (I will say play anyway). Good luck and let us know what the outcome is please.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:Is the meeting to decide about the season? I wish these schools would wait just a bit longer before making decisions. Fauci even said that anyone who wants the vaccine will have it by April. It will be really interesting to see how long this wave lasts - if it's 4-6 weeks and multiple vaccines are rolled out at that time let's play (I will say play anyway). Good luck and let us know what the outcome is please.
there is no reason to make a move before the return to school in January, if there is no return it is easy! it is just poor management to decide anything now.
I wouldn't give a nickel for any piece of advice from Fauci - him a microphone and he will conflict himself next week.
@old_school posted:I wouldn't give a nickel for any piece of advice from Fauci - him a microphone and he will conflict himself next week.
Ya ok, so you know more about immunology then someone who is world renowned for contributions to AIDS/HIV research, Ebola and spent a lifetime studying infectious diseases.
Highly doubt that any healthy athlete will be vaccinated in 2021. Due to the conditions to which the virus needs to be kept in for most pharmacy and doctors offices it might be a task. The rollout will first go to nursing homes through out the country and to Medicare recipients and those with specific health conditions, heart patients, cancer, severe asthmatics, diabetes, etc.
@smokeminside posted:Yeah, he's in a lot of pain. The kid behind him is the starting RF and team's best power hitter. Also a senior and being recruited by NASA.
There's a huge NESCAC meeting tomorrow. Don't have my hopes up. Extremely irritating that there may well be some d3s playing this spring but the well-off high academic schools (which are incredibly image conscious) seem likely to pack it in as Swarthmore, for example, did.
I don't have my hopes up either. Son is a freshman in a NESCAC program and he seems to be believe they will pack it in. Unfortunately, even if there is a season the freshman can't participate and they are all being sent home for the Spring. His school has been/is extremely image conscious from my limited experience thus far and it is really a detriment to these kids.
It is difficult to sit back and watch what is happening on so many levels. The only silver lining is that he really enjoys his coaches and teammates. Practice, workouts and being with the boys has been his saving grace.
@SoCal OG posted:Ya ok, so you know more about immunology then someone who is world renowned for contributions to AIDS/HIV research, Ebola and spent a lifetime studying infectious diseases.
The issue with Fauci is not what he knows. The issue is how many times he’s flip flopped. He’s been an unelected government administrator for decades. It’s been a long time since he’s been an active doctor and written a peer reviewed article.
@TPM posted:Highly doubt that any healthy athlete will be vaccinated in 2021. Due to the conditions to which the virus needs to be kept in for most pharmacy and doctors offices it might be a task. The rollout will first go to nursing homes through out the country and to Medicare recipients and those with specific health conditions, heart patients, cancer, severe asthmatics, diabetes, etc.
If Ezekiel Emmanuel is part of Biden’s appointed team ** seniors over 75 may never get the vaccine. He doesn’t believe life is worth living past 75 and people this age and older shouldn’t have anything done to save them.
** he’s part of Biden’s COVID advisory group
Note: Biden appointed him today to officially head the COVID task force.
Edited for correction
@RJM posted:If Rahm Emmanuel is part of Biden’s appointed team ** seniors over 75 may never get the vaccine. He doesn’t believe life is worth living past 75 and people this age and older shouldn’t have anything done to save them.
** he’s part of Biden’s COVID advisory group
Note: I just checked for Emmanuel’s age. Damn, he’s an old looking 60. The top article that came up is Biden appointed him today to officially head the COVID task force.
Isn't Joe Biden 77?
https://community.hsbaseballwe...23#66767994743188723
I am not much of a fan of either but the Emanuel that thinks life is basically over 75 (article about it) is Ezekial and the ex mayor of Chicago / Chief of Staff for Obama is Rahm.
edit: both appear to be a big part of the Biden team but in different roles.
Cuomo says that the government should require the vaccine be taken by everyone and administered by the government. I'm not going to take it unless they hold me down and force it on me. Never took a vaccine since I was a child and don't think I'm going to start today. May in the future when I get OLDER but not this year. I'm also not a huge fan of government administering the vaccine and overseeing it. I don't think I would encourage my son to take it. I wonder if colleges will require students to take it and will they put outs on it.
