The D3 Decision Today

Was there something announced today regarding Spring 2021?

As it stands D3 Spring athletes retain a year of eligibility from Spring of 2020.  So, in theory a Freshman could play 5 years.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/reso...athletes?division=d3

Presidents Council approves blanket waiver for all DIII student-athletes

New chair and vice chair elected for 2021

October 29, 2020 11:30amJeremy Villanueva

I don’t understand why any player at any level would stay and play college ball unless they believe it’s enhancing their pro prospects or they planned to go to grad school. At some point a kid has to grow up, get a job and support themselves.:Going into Low A at twenty-three, twenty-four after five or six years of college isn’t typically a pro prospect booster.

@RJM posted:

I don’t understand why any player at any level would stay and play college ball unless they believe it’s enhancing their pro prospects or they planned to go to grad school. At some point a kid has to grow up, get a job and support themselves.:Going into Low A at twenty-three, twenty-four after five or six years of college isn’t typically a pro prospect booster.

the school I went to (and a number of other schools in our conference) was NAIA but is now D3.  we had a very well regarded (in state) law school and GSM and I had a couple of friend who played their redshirt senior year of football as first year law students.  

The only way their colleges would let my D3 guys stay an extra year is if they don't have the required courses to graduate.  The only way their dad would let them stay an extra year, gap year excepted, is if they pay their own way. When that happens, I'm going get my bait and tackle from Buck's Bait Shop when I go ice-fishing in Hell, Michigan.

@mattys posted:

the school I went to (and a number of other schools in our conference) was NAIA but is now D3.  we had a very well regarded (in state) law school and GSM and I had a couple of friend who played their redshirt senior year of football as first year law students.  

As I posted ... or they plan to go to grad school.

Two things to consider:

1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.

2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.

I would argue more of the seniors are coming back because of a soft job market for recent grads than those trying to improve their draft prospects.

My son is planning on playing 5th year spring of 22 while in grad school...if he wants to play a 6th I probably won't complain. The funny thing is I am not sure he will want to do that, at some point they grow up, they want to be independent and take the next step, all the guys they came in with and played with are moving on but them...I think it is no better then a coin flip on him playing a 6th year and the cost of school has zero impact on the decision.

His class is gone, the class behind is mostly if not all gone, he is an old man with a bunch of kids essentially.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I would argue more of the seniors are coming back because of a soft job market for recent grads than those trying to improve their draft prospects.

with a very rare exception (MAYBE a handful in the whole damn country) I would say draft prospects shouldn't be considered in any fashion for a D3 pitcher considering his playing options.

So "fourth year freshman" is a thing?

@Francis7 posted:

Two things to consider:

1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.

2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.

At D3's, especially the HA D3's, it is entirely possible and expected to graduate in 4.

@SoCal OG posted:

At D3's, especially the HA D3's, it is entirely possible and expected to graduate in 4.

Agreed, but I think it's mostly a state vs private thing. In the Cal State system, for example, the inability of students to get into all the classes they need to take in their major is one of the factors that makes graduating in 4 years difficult. In our experience, it is somewhat easier to graduate in 4 years from the UC system. At a HA private, if a student doesn't graduate in 4 years that's generally caused by his or her academic issues, or health, or changing majors.

@JCG posted:

Agreed, but I think it's mostly a state vs private thing. In the Cal State system, for example, the inability of students to get into all the classes they need to take in their major is one of the factors that makes graduating in 4 years difficult. In our experience, it is somewhat easier to graduate in 4 years from the UC system. At a HA private, if a student doesn't graduate in 4 years that's generally caused by his or her academic issues, or health, or changing majors.

100%

@JCG posted:

Agreed, but I think it's mostly a state vs private thing. In the Cal State system, for example, the inability of students to get into all the classes they need to take in their major is one of the factors that makes graduating in 4 years difficult. In our experience, it is somewhat easier to graduate in 4 years from the UC system. At a HA private, if a student doesn't graduate in 4 years that's generally caused by his or her academic issues, or health, or changing majors.

Or transfer?

@TPM posted:

Or transfer?

Good point.

So what is the point of this announcement?  Are we to assume there is more to come?  The 2021 season has not been officially cancelled....yet.

@SoCal OG posted:

So what is the point of this announcement?  Are we to assume there is more to come?  The 2021 season has not been officially cancelled....yet.

Sounds like they are bracing for the possibility - albeit due to health concerns or budget cutbacks.

I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes.  My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3.  My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.

Good point. But again very different in public vs private.

@baseballhs posted:

I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes.  My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3.  My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.

not sure how out of date this is but many moons ago, I started college at a small private university. there, your path to graduation was set and, as long as you kept passing classes or didn't double or triple major, finishing in 4 years was easily accomplished.  

then, I got hurt, couldn't play ball any more and transferred to a large public university.  There, they couldn't care less about how long it took you to graduate. you were just a number and, if you got your classes, you were good but if you didn't, you were screwed.  

if it's anything similar now, i'd think the majority of the D3 guys can more easily finish on time so the decision to take advantage of the extra eligibility comes down to whether spending the extra tuition is worth it (or grad school/extra major/minor, etc).

@SoCal OG posted:

So what is the point of this announcement?  Are we to assume there is more to come?  The 2021 season has not been officially cancelled....yet.

It's a head-scratcher. I could see this being interpreted in two very different ways.

The NCAA could be telling D3 ADs to go ahead and plan for a spring season without worrying about eligibility issues for this year’s players in the event that the season gets cut short. And/or they could plan a shortened "safer" schedule with less travel, knowing that the kids won't burn a year of eligibly.

Conversely, they could be saying go ahead and cancel your entire spring because none of your players are going to lose any eligibility.

I hope it's the former.

@Francis7 posted:

Two things to consider:

1. There are MANY kids, period, who need more than 4 years to get their bachelor's degree. I thought that I read somewhere recently that it's not unreasonable to expect a kid these days to need 4 1/2 years.

2. Never underestimate the hopes and dreams factor. Look at how many seniors in college last year are coming back for another year this year. I thought almost no one would do it for all the logical reasons. But, it seems like most are doing it for the illogical reason.

My son is fortunate that he is still playing after D1 ball.  About a couple of years ago he met up with several of his teammates who have graduated and moved on.  He said a few were ready to move into their next chapter without baseball but many said it was a major adjustment.  They loved the game, enjoyed the competition, the practices, being with the team, traveling, attention, hanging with friends and such.  Their identity at the time was a baseball player, thus now a new identity had to be created.  At first it was hard for me to relate but after thinking about it, yeah I understand where they are coming from.  This is by no way a comparison to an athletic player but I know one day my time will come where I will no longer have the identity of being dad of player X.  I do understand why it's difficult for 5th year seniors (or high school sr) to be reluctant about giving it up when their talent or success may not be at the top.  Not saying financially or academically it may make sense but that's another discussion.  I especially sympathize with the current athletes who may never get the opportunity to properly say farewell to their love of playing competitively.

@baseballhs posted:

I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes.  My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3.  My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.

That's not a usual situation among baseball players. Some start with the minimum credits allowed, then you cannot graduate in 4 years if a player does that. It all depends on the division and as stated private vs public. And how good the athletic advisor is as well as the academic advisor for your degree.

@baseballhs posted:

I would think kids are easily able to graduate in 4 years now with all the dual credit and AP classes.  My daughter and her friend just graduated in 3.  My son just entered his freshman year as a sophomore due to dual credit, as did most of his friends.

It depends on the school.  My 3 kids all entered college with 8+ AP classes and they got 0 credits towards their degree.  Their reward for taking the AP and passing the college's proficiency tests were that they got to take the advanced/sophomore level version of the class their freshman year, i.e. they were "rewarded" with a much more rigorous curriculum.

I really thought there would be baseball played in the Spring.  I'm not so confident anymore.  For a while now, my son has been saying "dad, we're not playing in the Spring", unfortunately, he may be right.  I just cant believe we're still in the same situation.  And please, please dont take this off into a political/virus discussion.  We dont need anymore of that right now.

@MidAtlanticDad posted:

It's a head-scratcher. I could see this being interpreted in two very different ways.

The NCAA could be telling D3 ADs to go ahead and plan for a spring season without worrying about eligibility issues for this year’s players in the event that the season gets cut short. And/or they could plan a shortened "safer" schedule with less travel, knowing that the kids won't burn a year of eligibly.

Conversely, they could be saying go ahead and cancel your entire spring because none of your players are going to lose any eligibility.

I hope it's the former.

They gave it to all Fall and winter sports and they are playing.  I don't understand it. At all.

@old_school posted:

Big don wins election the baseball season is saved!

I think you have that backwards.  If he wins, there won’t be a full Baseball season until 2023 or 2024.  Unchecked, the virus will be killing 5,000 people or more a day, or 5,000 to 15,000 per week at least.  Schools won’t feel safe to be open or playing sports.  Any sort of vaccine, if safe, is a good 18-24 months away from being fully distributed enough to effectively work across the full nation.

@3and2Fastball posted:

I think you have that backwards.  If he wins, there won’t be a full Baseball season until 2023 or 2024.  Unchecked, the virus will be killing 5,000 people or more a day, or 5,000 per week at least.  Schools won’t feel safe to be open or playing sports.

Here we go again with scare tactics. Do you think everyone is just going to stop doing things they are doing to make it go “unchecked”? Mortality rates are way down (I thought I heard 85%).

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Here we go again with scare tactics. Do you think everyone is just going to stop doing things they are doing to make it go “unchecked”? Mortality rates are way down (I thought I heard 85%).

It is completely unchecked right now, cases are skyrocketing.  

Everyone?  Or every school and conference?  It is clear just based on the way conferences are reacting, without significant changes in leadership and with the way we combat this virus (see Canada and Australia as examples) the NCAA isn’t going to let things go back to “normal”

@3and2Fastball posted:

Everyone?  Or every school and conference?

Your statement included stats if the virus is unchecked, which it is currently being checked in some form or another. Do you think people will just stop these safety measures if Trump wins?

What should be done that isn’t already being done, and where? Please be specific.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Your statement included stats if the virus is unchecked, which it is currently being checked in some form or another. Do you think people will just stop these safety measures if Trump wins?

We are currently averaging 5,000-7,000 deaths per week right now.  At least 40% of the population are not taking safety measures at all.  And the NCAA is making decisions based on the reality of our current situation.

The numbers I posted are probably an extremely low estimate.

What I don’t understand is why anyone would think things will change if the President remains the same?   There is zero evidence that the NCAA will allow things “back to normal” without significant changes in how we deal with the virus.

The President’s administration has been talking about allowing “herd immunity” to battle the virus.  That means millions of people dead.  And, again, no Baseball until 2023 or 2024.

Regardless of where you fall politically (I’m an Independent that leans conservative, for what it is worth) if you care about Baseball and our kids getting a chance to play, it is clear that things won’t change until leadership in our nation changes.

What should be done that isn’t being done, in order for there to be the best chances for NCAA Baseball to be played?  

Nationwide mask mandates.  Testing and tracing for the entire population. Leadership that doesn’t make the virus out to be “no big deal”.  These are very simple steps that other countries have easily achieved.

I'm pretty excited to see the D3 athletics situation be so interrelated with the current political/public health climate.  And people think a liberal arts education lacks relevance....

Exactly where I didnt want this to go...

@SoCal OG posted:

Exactly where I didnt want this to go...

It is somewhat impossible to intelligently discuss the NCAA’s decisions without discussing the government’s approach to combating the virus.

It is possible that Trump will do a complete 180 in his leadership approach if re-elected.   Almost anything is “possible”.  Seems extremely unlikely though.

What does seem clear is that the NCAA is not going to do a complete 180 and simply allow things “back to normal” without significant improvements in how we as a nation deal with the pandemic.  We are not “rounding the corner”, such comments are completely absurd.  And the NCAA clearly sees things are getting worse.

@3and2Fastball posted:

It is somewhat impossible to intelligently discuss the NCAA’s decisions without discussing the government’s approach to combating the virus.

It is possible that Trump will do a complete 180 in his leadership approach if re-elected.   Almost anything is “possible”.  Seems extremely unlikely though.

What does seem clear is that the NCAA is not going to do a complete 180 and simply allow things “back to normal” without significant improvements in how we as a nation deal with the pandemic.  We are not “rounding the corner”, such comments are completely absurd.  And the NCAA clearly sees things are getting worse.

You're watching too much CNN.  97% of the population have not gotten Covid, and of those who did the vast, vast majority (98%) haven't died or suffered any serious issues, and those that have were mostly old people.

@Trust In Him posted:

My son is fortunate that he is still playing after D1 ball.  About a couple of years ago he met up with several of his teammates who have graduated and moved on.  He said a few were ready to move into their next chapter without baseball but many said it was a major adjustment.  They loved the game, enjoyed the competition, the practices, being with the team, traveling, attention, hanging with friends and such.  Their identity at the time was a baseball player, thus now a new identity had to be created.  At first it was hard for me to relate but after thinking about it, yeah I understand where they are coming from.  This is by no way a comparison to an athletic player but I know one day my time will come where I will no longer have the identity of being dad of player X.  I do understand why it's difficult for 5th year seniors (or high school sr) to be reluctant about giving it up when their talent or success may not be at the top.  Not saying financially or academically it may make sense but that's another discussion.  I especially sympathize with the current athletes who may never get the opportunity to properly say farewell to their love of playing competitively.

Re new identity: My son at the first family Thanksgiving after college, baseball was over and he was working ...

“Damn! I’m as dull as the rest of you now!”