The Insanity Continues

12 years later I wonder where those players are now?

OK.....so I was bored and went to the last page of topics

PGStaff posted:

In baseball the team with the best pitcher usually wins. Dad who throws best wins?

Not a bad idea "rz", we might find some dads with a future.

Sure hope those youngsters who get cut don't give up the game for something they won't get cut at.

I remember those days fondly, and yes, the team with the 'best' pitcher won!  that is the dad that was best at hitting the kids bats!

d8 posted:

12 years later I wonder where those players are now?

 

OK.....so I was bored and went to the last page of topics

Funny you should pull this out.  In our area there was a rec league that one of the Dad's was a great coach pulled together a core of about 10 kids in T-Ball in around 2002.  They practiced together for years starting at about 6 and at Age 9 started travelling together.  They were very competitive but none of the kids ever seemed burned out.  I think he had a decent balance of down time especially when they were younger.  But he totally coached them up and he could teach hitting - they mashed it. 

That group became a great team right through HS when they won a State Championship and became nationally ranked in the top 30 in several polls.

About 6 of them went to DI and one was drafted and signed out of HS.  So while many of these things might be over the top with the right guy running it there can be success.

I have a 14u son in travel ball who has always played well and I have a 7u daughter in rec ball that does not, lol!  There is a boy on my daughters team that reminds me a lot of my son.  He can throw from third to first without a rainbow throw and hit two out of the park home runs last weekend.  The kid has above average hand eye coordination and he's athletic is what it boils down to.

I pulled the dad aside just this past weekend and said "I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice, don't leave the rec park for travel ball until at least 9u."  He of course asked for my reasoning, I said there is no point to travel ball until the kids are pitching, don't waste your money and don't buy into the hype.

I hope he listens.

luv baseball posted:

d8 posted:

12 years later I wonder where those players are now?

 

OK.....so I was bored and went to the last page of topics

Funny you should pull this out.  In our area there was a rec league that one of the Dad's was a great coach pulled together a core of about 10 kids in T-Ball in around 2002.  They practiced together for years starting at about 6 and at Age 9 started travelling together.  They were very competitive but none of the kids ever seemed burned out.  I think he had a decent balance of down time especially when they were younger.  But he totally coached them up and he could teach hitting - they mashed it. 

That group became a great team right through HS when they won a State Championship and became nationally ranked in the top 30 in several polls.

About 6 of them went to DI and one was drafted and signed out of HS.  So while many of these things might be over the top with the right guy running it there can be success.

The same thing has happened with the team my son has played on. They have a group of about 8 kids that have played together since they were 6. Started out as a team t-ball all star team. Heck we traveled a few hours to play in the 6u California Ripken State Tournament. They've played together through All Stars and travel ball ever since. They go to the same middle school now and just won the county championship. You guys would be surprised how many serious t-ball teams there are around. As long as you have some balance and the kids are having fun I don't have an issue with it at all. Plus you can make a fortune selling those "Dad of #12" shirts to everyone. "Nana of 16", "Sissy of 22". The possibilities are endless...

CaCO3Girl posted:

I have a 14u son in travel ball who has always played well and I have a 7u daughter in rec ball that does not, lol!  There is a boy on my daughters team that reminds me a lot of my son.  He can throw from third to first without a rainbow throw and hit two out of the park home runs last weekend.  The kid has above average hand eye coordination and he's athletic is what it boils down to.

I pulled the dad aside just this past weekend and said "I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice, don't leave the rec park for travel ball until at least 9u."  He of course asked for my reasoning, I said there is no point to travel ball until the kids are pitching, don't waste your money and don't buy into the hype.

I hope he listens.

I would say, don't worry about travel ball until you move to the 60/90 field (13U).  Ok, maybe 12U so you can go to Cooperstown, but no sooner than that.  The fact is, anything earlier than that, the time and $ is better spent on lessons and instruction.  Use rec ball to refine what has been taught during those lessons. And lets face it, most travel ball teams are no better than a rec league all star team. 

As far as the 7u kid, let him and his dad have fun and enjoy the time with his friends and teammates.  How do you determine that his hand/eye coordination is "above average"?  What is 7u average?

bballdad2016 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I have a 14u son in travel ball who has always played well and I have a 7u daughter in rec ball that does not, lol!  There is a boy on my daughters team that reminds me a lot of my son.  He can throw from third to first without a rainbow throw and hit two out of the park home runs last weekend.  The kid has above average hand eye coordination and he's athletic is what it boils down to.

I pulled the dad aside just this past weekend and said "I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice, don't leave the rec park for travel ball until at least 9u."  He of course asked for my reasoning, I said there is no point to travel ball until the kids are pitching, don't waste your money and don't buy into the hype.

I hope he listens.

I would say, don't worry about travel ball until you move to the 60/90 field (13U).  Ok, maybe 12U so you can go to Cooperstown, but no sooner than that.  The fact is, anything earlier than that, the time and $ is better spent on lessons and instruction.  Use rec ball to refine what has been taught during those lessons. And lets face it, most travel ball teams are no better than a rec league all star team. 

As far as the 7u kid, let him and his dad have fun and enjoy the time with his friends and teammates.  How do you determine that his hand/eye coordination is "above average"?  What is 7u average?

The local rec parks generally don't have kids over 9u that can catch a pop-fly, they mostly go the way of Travel Ball.  There is travel ball here from 5u and up, nope, not joking.

There are MANY travel ball teams in GA that are much better than rec all stars, and MANY excited parents who drink the kool-aid far too soon about where their child SHOULD be (skills wise) and who they SHOULD be playing for IF they want their kid to make it to the MLB one day, nope, not joking about that either.  Someone just sent me a link to a kid from a north east state that advertises he will play with your team in a national tournament, and teams really do fly him in, including a high level GA team. He goes to school during the week and on the weekend he flies out to play, not unusual right for 17u, except he isn't, he's a 2020 and 13u eligible.  Nope, not joking about THAT either.

I have always been of the opinion that spending money on private lessons below 14u (unless the kid is hurting himself) is more ludicrous than 6u Travel Ball, so I would never recommend that route.  As for how can I determine his hand eye coordination is above average....well I'm there and watching him and it's pretty clear he's got better hand/eye coordination than the rest of the team in the way he catches the ball, throws the ball, and hits the ball.

No one on one instruction/lessons before 14u?  That's an odd stance, do tell. 

CaCo wrote.....I have always been of the opinion that spending money on private lessons below 14u (unless the kid is hurting himself) is more ludicrous than 6u Travel Ball, so I would never recommend that route.

Edited to be nicer just in case we meet at LakePoint at the WWBA in June and just because people should be nice....I know it is your opinion on the lessons, but I believe the opposite.  Private lessons to teach the fundamentals of hitting, throwing etc are a very good thing.  Obviously with the caveat that the lesson payments are not in place of rent/food etc.  The game is much more enjoyable for a kid when he can hit, throw properly etc. 

Lefty Coach TX posted:

An ad in the Houston Chronicle last Thursday
advertised for tryouts for a 6U select team, which will also participate in out of town t-ball and dad's pitch tournaments. The ad also states that the kids must be able to travel! No, I am not making this up.

Can you imagine the egos of those who are running this? Cutting 5 and 6 year old kids, who probably are just now learning to hold a glove? Can a 5 or 6 year old even comprehend what getting cut means? There is something really, really wrong with some of today's baseball community. It's sickening!

Yes, the $30 million a year contract has parents thinking that just maybe...

PWPW posted:

... serious t-ball teams ...

 

We're all doomed.  

If done correctly even at the youngest ages baseball can be a good thing.

The problem is when pressure is put on the kids.  When that happens many kids will shy away from baseball before they even have a chance to fall in love with the game.

I know it is preaching to the choir here,  but those in charge of the youngest kids playing baseball, need to make sure it is a positive experience for every kid.  That takes some work and creativity at times.  When it is all said and done, if those kids you have worked with or coached end up loving the game... You have been a great mentor!

It has long been my belief that creating baseball fans is far more important than creating baseball players.  If you think about, they go hand in hand.  So the worst thing anyone in charge of young kids can do, is give a reason to dislike the game.  That could even have a generational effect.

bballdad2016 posted:

No one on one instruction/lessons before 14u?  That's an odd stance, do tell. 

This is for you too Go44Dad.  It is my OPINION, love that word, that under 14u your kid should be working with their coach not paying $50 a half hour.  In a typical week from 9u-14u my son has had 2-3 travel ball practices per week in the Spring and Fall. In those practices he has had time at 1B, C, RHP, SS, 3B, and OF as well as at least 40 swings in the cages and or on the field.  Why does a kid need more than that?  In my experience it is because the parents want the kid to be at a different place in the batting order, or they want them to be THE primary pitcher, why?   If your kid isn't that athletic with his throwing or pitching or fielding or batting maybe he should be on a lower level team that better suites his skills, is there any shame in that? 

I feel like private lessons for that age group sends a signal to the kid that they are not good enough, and many of the most heavily "trained" 9u-13u kids that my son has played with aren't even playing anymore. Parents in my area spend thousands on private lessons from 9u-13u with hitting, pitching, fielding, etc and let me announce loudly that my kid was a completely different person at 14u.  The massive growth spurts meant he had to learn how to throw, hit, field, and even run ALL OVER AGAIN, that is once he stopped bouncing into the walls, nope, not kidding. 

The first private lesson my son had was last year for pitching, he was 12.  Either he missed something when he was taught pitching or the fact that he was throwing 15 mph faster than his teammates had a bad effect on his arm.  The pitching instructor had him fixed in under 2 minutes and now he see's the same instructor once or twice a month in the Spring to make sure his mechanics are still on track, but there is no velocity training, no program....it was and is strictly for health reasons. My son adjusted fine to the BBCOR bat and the 60x90 field without lessons, hits in a prime spot, plays multiple positions, and is the #2 pitcher on his 14u team.  

On the rec vs. "travel" debate.  One of the funniest things I ever saw on a baseball field was when my youngest boy finally got to T Ball.  Having watched and played with his two older brothers and their friends he was "advanced" for a five year old.  That meant he could pick up a roller, throw the ball about 60 feet pretty firmly and hit a target about the size of a basketball backboard.

So in his first T ball game he was the "pitcher" and a friend of his (coaches son with older brothers also) was on 1st.  The first batter hits a ball about 15 feet in front of the plate.  Here's where the fun begins...my son comes flying off the "mound" and picks up the ball, spins and throws a strike about 30 feet to his buddy at first and gets the batter by 10 feet.  He jumps up and yells at the top of his lungs...."Gotcha you're out!"

The umpire who was a teenager standing in the middle of the infield leaves the runner on first per league rules that said in the first two games all batters run all the way around.  Well my 5 year old lost his mind and went all Earl Weaver on him.  He started jumping up and down yelling ..."what do you mean...he was out by a mile!"  after about 30 seconds of this when I finally caught my breath I yelled out to him..."hey let it go and keep playing!".  He threw about 8 kids out and set a T-ball record but was totally grumpy afterward. 

Settle down CACO.  Do you always take things so personally?  You seem as if you are defending your son in your post??  

Anyhow - my take on lessons.  It teaches the correct fundamentals on a one on one basis.  Thereby minimizing the bad habits early on.  I don't know a coach out there that wouldn't like to spend less time on correcting bad habits and poor form during team practice. Equate it to taking an SAT prep course, if you will. 

bballdad2016 posted:

Settle down CACO.  Do you always take things so personally?  You seem as if you are defending your son in your post??  

Anyhow - my take on lessons.  It teaches the correct fundamentals on a one on one basis.  Thereby minimizing the bad habits early on.  I don't know a coach out there that wouldn't like to spend less time on correcting bad habits and poor form during team practice. Equate it to taking an SAT prep course, if you will. 

I feel like I'm in a my cousin Vinny moment, you think I'm upset and I think I'm communicating. 

I don't mock people who take their kids to private lessons, much like I don't mock the kids that bring Smart Water or Evian water to the field where my kid is drinking the Great Value water.  People can spend their money how they want to spend it but my original quoted remark was "I wouldn't recommend it", and I don't.  If a parent feels their kid HAS to have it, go for it.  If they ask my opinion on it I pretty much give them the speech from above on why I don't think private lessons below 14u are necessary.

My son adjusted fine to the BBCOR bat and the 60x90 field without lessons, hits in a prime spot, plays multiple positions, and is the #2 pitcher on his 14u team. 

Why are you holding him back when he could be living the jet set life!  I'd have only sent my kid away on weekends if I got to keep the frequent flier miles.  But seriously, there are lessons (couple of times a month to check mechanics) and then there are LESSONS.  LESSONS  are those recurring bi-weekly events (paid six month ahead) where the dad sits in the corner and prays for the kid to be enlightened and magically become athletic.  I cannot tell you how many times I've seen some dad working with some poor kid saying "just like they told you at the lesson" - when what the dad really needs to do is buy the kid a pitchback and let him spend a few fun hours in the backyard each night.  I doubt CACO is saying lessons are inherently bad, I just think she has seen too many instances where some dad (or mom) thinks lessons are the magic key and put way too much pressure on their kid when they don't "blossom" after a few thousand bucks. (CACO - please correct me if I misspoke).

 On the Daddy-ball front, I have seen several instances where the coach's son is an absolute fixture at SS and some pitching.  Oftentimes the kid is one of the better infielders, but for some reason SS is the golden position.  If a parent likes the coach and SS just happens to not be your goal, then these coaches can be great and give your kid lots of reps at 2B and 3B.  And, as has been said here before, you really don't want your kid to be the ace pitcher until around age 16.  They can still pitch and improve, but you really don't want you kid to carry 50% of the pitching load - unless they shell out for first class tickets for the parents.