Tired of unfit, unfair coaches...advice welcomed

I don't really have any advice to give you. We are kinda in a similar situation. So, I guess really all there is to be done, is ride out the storm. I always thought High School Baseball would be about winning, playing the best players who potentially had a future in the game, and developing talent. But alas, it seems as though those little league coaches moved up to High School along with the little league parents. Keep smiling, support your son, and I sincerely hope things work out for the best.

Thanks for the support...I guess you are right in that all you can do is ride it out and hope for the best....but darn it...this is my kids future.

Well, its kind of interesting. A couple of things based on conversations that I've had with our local HS AD.

1. He says he hasn't met a HS coach yet who wasn't trying to win games and put who he/she thought were the best players on the field. Don't know how to judge your situation, but you should think about this. We ALL (me included) think our sons/daughters are better/smarter/more coachable than anyone else. Thats not a bad thing, its because we love our kids so much. Keep your frustration in check with the possibility that your are mistaken. If your son is really the better ballplayer, it will work itself out in all likliehood.

2. When he took over as AD, our athletic program stunk. All the parents told him, "hire coaches who will win!" So he did. The turnabout has been amazing - nearly every team with a winning record in just 4 years, many winning their league championships.

3. Now that his teams are winning, he's being deluged with "why don't the coaches play ALL the players?" and "why do they worry so much about winning?"

Point is - cannot satisfy all the people. Coaches are human beings and they will make mistakes. The only thing you can legitimately complain about to your AD or principal is an abusive situation.

If you decide to talk to the coach, ask your son to do it first. Have him ask the coach what he can do to earn more playing time. You should NOT be the first one to approach the coach and you should NOT approach him with complaints of favortism. You will brand yourself and your son for the remainder of the year as a "problem," whether you are or not.

________________
"The only people I ever felt intimdated by in my whole life were Bob Gibson and my daddy," Dusty Baker.

You are certainly not alone.There are MANY parents and players in the same situation that
you are,so take some comfort in that fact.If you
are totally unhappy,put your son in private school.Everyone on the board will tell you that
talking to the coach will do your son no good and will change absolutely nothing.You just have
to support your son through the tough times and
don't let him lose his confidence.

It's also only fair to note that truly objective parents are few and far between. Most parents who go on tirades can't see the whole picture.

And "everyone on the board will tell you that
talking to the coach will do your son no good and will change absolutely nothing" is a complete falsehood. One thing it my change is your and your son's perspective.

At the parent's meeting at my son's school, the JV coaches made a point of stressing that a) the decision about who to play, where, and how much, was made by the varsity coach; b) those decisions were made to test and prepare the players for where the varsity coach was looking to have them play when they got to varsity; and c) it's between the coaches and the players, parents should butt out.

Personally, I have no problem with that philosophy. For some players, it's meant playing a different position than the're used to. They'll survive. In the long run, if they want to play varsity they'll succeed or fail according to their talent, work and persistence. I honestly think that your son will handle it a lot better if you don't feed into a sense of urgency by letting your own discomfort with the situation aggravate his feelings about it.

It may be that there's a stud catcher a year ahead of your son, so they're trying to get your son comfortable in a role they project for him next year (while the kid who's playing catcher is just a stopgap.) Or they may already know what your son can do, and want to give the other kid a fair chance to prove himself or fail. There's a lot more to JV coaching decisions than just "playing the best 9" or trying to win a game. There's a "program" to consider.

Try not to get too upset about it. If you do, you'll only hurt your son.

D'oh!

Thanks to all who responded. Your comments are appreciated.

A good friend of mine is a HS coach with a few state titles under his resume and he put it to me point blank regarding young (9th and 10th graders) players. The statement was "the young player can do everything in Fall and early Spring better than the upper class player but he was going to start the older player on opening day." The older players must play themself out of a position before the young kid will get an opportunity. He felt that the older players would not accept the hot shot freshmen if they were given the starting spot over a senior and it would mess with the team chemistry.
I have another friend that has won several state titles and he tells both the parents and players that if a senior and freshmen are equal in ability the freshmen will start and play. The senior has had 4 years to get ready and they should be far superior to the freshmen.
Now you can see 2 different programs and both seem to work for the coaches.

Recently a parent told me that her son had worked out in the infield every day prior to the first game. He started in centerfield. Go figure.

does your son outwork the other kid and have a very good attitude towards the game, and if so is it better than the "coaches friends son"? I find it hard to believe that a coach would do this, however it is JV and they look to develop players not always winning.

The way I would look at it is:

1. He's in the lineup with his bat, and it's early in the season. The other player's connections may have gotten him the start but won't keep him there if he really stinks.

2. HS schedules is what, 30 games? What's more important is his summer and fall travel team and preparing himself for the next year by playing in a lot more games than that, and against better competetion.

With that in mind stay positive and focused and think of the long term plan.

We went through exactly what you are going through in "Daddy Ball" at the Rec level. We have not seen it in High School at all. If we did, I would tell my son the same thing I told him then, that "Life is not fair" and that the entire world is series of events, many controlled by Humans, all of which have their own notion of right and wrong and good and bad. He will be putting up with these types of inequities for the rest of his life and he might as well get used to it now. If he is truly the kid that should have the position, the cream will rise to the top. Tell him to keep working hard, re-double his efforts and keep his chin up.

Alot of great comments. And yes he does have a better attitude and works harder than the other kid. We're gonna ride it out. If his bat stays good enough he's bound to be there down the road. Thanks all

Frank Jones

Went through the daddyball and cliques of parent coaches when my son was growing up. You know the coaches pick the tournament teams and their sons juat happen to make it. Son was dissapointed. As his father I was not too happy but never said a word. I knew that was the way it was. But it is hard telling a young boy that. Just told him to work through it. Well many of those kids never made the high school team. He did. He is now playing in college. You have to be persistant.

As a freshman my son played on JV and had a blast.During my his soph and junior varsity years, he sat it out on the bench waiting for his rotation. He got to pitch 1/2 game every 3rd-4th game.He was the best athlete on the team, he never came to bat but maybe a half dozen times. He probably was the second best hitter on the team as well, but never given much of a chance. Being the best pitcher he had to go up against the district games as relief and ended up losing more games than winning. His stats were horrible. Contrary to what others here believe, not a word was ever mentioned to the coach. He put in his dues. He knew his time would come. We attended every game to support the team whether my son played or not. Although by the end of last year he began to see more playing time because the seniors were not coming through. The seniors just got to play more whether they were the best or not.
This year we had to meet with the coach and AD regarding too much on the mound. He also plays every game now on 1B when not pitching (we had to stop them from putting him to play at 1B when he left the mound). He gets up to bat 3-4 times a game. We only spoke up when we felt his health was being jeopardized.
It is a hard transition from going to the best on your LL team to sitting in HS. But sometimes it is like a right of passage. Be patient, tell your son to be patient. Make sure he gets on a good team in the summer where he will play.
As you read through this website, I find lots of coaches have different styles and philosophies. I know that we encourage our kids to speak up, but sometimes they are afraid of the consequences. Have your son ask what he can do to improve on his playing time. Tell him not to complain, because as we have read in other topics, it may impact him negatively.
You only intervene when an abusive situation exists.
If it makes you feel any better, many of our boys here did not get D1 scholarships or drafted due to their HS achievements on the field.

I'm glad I found this site since everyone seems to be going through a similar situation as my son. His twist is that the sophomeore coach told the sophomores that they were moving my son up to sophomores. That was a week ago. Of course my son got all excited and anxiously awaits the day that it will happen. I'm just hoping it wasn't said to motivate the sophomores and he has no intention of moving my son up. As others have said, it's only so many games but you hate to see a coach say something for the wrong reason.

UNFIT COACH--definition please

UNFAIR COACH--definition please

To me these are two different elements

LL Studs do not necessarily make a HS stud--many kids who were just average in LL become HS Studs

Many coaches won't play underclassmen over seniors NO MATTER WHAT--get used to it--this approach doesn't make the coach unfair and as was noted above it can be successful, perhaps just as successful as playing a frosh/soph over a senior.

TRhit

To all of you:

Welcome to the real world of competitive baseball. I have no idea where any of these players rate or how competent the coaches are.

But I will say this: It's only the beginning. As TR said, there is no coach who does not to win (at least none who will be coaching very long) and, as a result, plays who he believes to be the best players.

If your sons are indeed good enough, at some point they will play. If they don't, then they really weren't as good as you thought.

Keep in mind, there a major leaguers, particularly those from California, who don't even have a chance to start in high school until they are seniors. You could look it up.

The coach can only put nine on the field at a time, and high school rosters usually total 18 to 21. That guarantees that someone will not be happy, and I guarantee the fathers of the guys in the game believe the coaches are making the right decisions.

Here is another thing to keep in mind, which I believe is most important. A coach told me a few years ago (a very successful football coach) that he will speak most any time with any parent wishing to discuss their son. But, he added, as soon as the parent begins comparing his or her son to another player, the conversation ends. Likewise, if the parent asks for the coach's assessment of his or her son's place on the team or talent level, he answers honestly, without regard to feelings.

Best of luck.

Perhaps some perspective:

When my son was 16 he tried out for a elite travel team that had an outfield of three freshman college players (my son was an outfielder)--his attitude, as the youngster on the team, was to learn from the older guys--- he knew his time would come-- his bat and speed would get him into the lineup and before long he was a starter, playing at one time or another all of the three outfield positions.

At the first game the coach came over and apologized for my son not starting-- why apologize--my son undertsood , as did I what the circumstances were--as a 16 year old he had a chance to learn from his elders and in the right venue--on the field-- and his time would come, as it did-- both my son and I had great faith in his ability

Folks it is all a learning process-- look at it for what it is, not what you think it should be--if the frosh or the soph has the goods it will tell in time but keep in mind it is better to be playing at that age than sitting on a varsity bench behind a senior-- and HS ball is only a part of the process--there is summer and fall ball which is as, if not more, important in the overall scheme of things

TRhit

"my kids future"?

What?

You know how many at bats you son has had over the last 2 years, meaning 7th and 8th grade, and what his average for that period is?

These types of comments automatically signal to me a parent that is waaaaaayyyy too serious about his kids athletic ability.

You're getting a lot of good advice in this thread and I'd like to add to it;

Lighten up a little. Enjoy his abilities. Enjoy the games. He's got a ways to go before you start thinking about his "future".

MOPTOP

Great advice

TRhit

There is an ever-changing equation “out there” that equals playing time. It could be Talent + Attitude + Age + Personality + Desire + Ability + Academics + Height + Strength – Weight + Relationship with the coach – Parents = PLAYING TIME.
The unique thing about this equation, it’s different for every coach and every parent. Add in the fact that all parents are biased toward their son, and now the “facts” these parents plug into their version of the equation are usually wrong. Now, how in the world can anyone solve the ever-present problem of playing the right nine players?
Fungo

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

I wonder if the advocates of "seniors" playing over underclassmen would have told Alex Rodriguez' parents the same thing when he was a freshman in HS. Or Zack Grienke's (#1 pick KC Royals) parents to be patient "He's only a freshman, he'll get his opportunity when he's a senior".

Bottom line, if everything else is equal(attitude,team rapport,etc) with the players and the underclassman is a better ballplayer, he should play.

Now, if a coach cannot see the obvious then there's not a whole lot you can do to overcome that, and I do understand that a lot of parents think their sons are better than they really are and should try to get unbiased opinions about their ability.

Seniors playing over underclass JUST because they are Seniors should never
happen.

Moc1

Sons coach uses the theory that the underclassman and the senior being equal, gives the edge in playing time to the underclasssman, with the thinking that the underclassman will end up better down the road. Makes sense to me.

ARod was at another hs and the coach said freshman don't play varsity here no matter how good they are. He transferred!

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

In our HS, seniors that have been varsity starters continue to get a spot on the starting line up if they play well, attend practices and maintain good grades. Unless they are not towing the line (happens with those not going on to play further) around mid season, they lose their spot.
I don't agree but that is how the coach does it. He does sub the new players, but he feels lack of experience often hurts. Just another one of coach's rules..........

BIG

A-ROD aside

you have hit the nerve that prevails--"He transferred"-- is the player going to a lesser program when he transfers? who knows--

TRhit

Perspective is often clouded at best whenever we talk of our sons...

I don't get to see how all the components factor into how/why/when/where a coach fields the team as he wants...I like Fungo's thought..

"...Talent + Attitude + Age + Personality + Desire + Ability + Academics + Height + Strength – Weight + Relationship with the coach – Parents = PLAYING TIME..."


SO....here's my 2 cents...my son just joined his team on Monday for his first practice (due to playoffs on his basketball team)...he arrived 30 minutes early (didn't want to be late)

...and then on Tuesday they had a scrimmage..I went home for lunch (they're on spring break)...and he was dressed for the game...and he wasn't leaving town for 4 more hours...

Coach gave them yesterday off...and he knew he needed to workout, so 5 of the seniors got together for 1 1/2 hours to practice on their own...

Even if we endure the unfair coach syndrome it's the attitude / character / resilence / work ethic...

that means so much more to me...

And they don't give district honors for those things as they don't show up in a stat book...

But those attributes will make them into great young men in the future.

JMO

Still waiting for the definitions

TRhit

A senior should have to loose thier spot, andan underclassman should have to win his.

I thought that as a junior, he had won a spot, coach thought differently.

His opinion counted, not mine. Never said a word about it. Went to every game. Showed support to every person on the field (except the umps at times ) including the other teams players, parents, coaches and fans.

The love of the game will show through your son! Enjoy him, let him grow, and support him in all things. The most important thing - never give up.

"You should enter a ballpark the way you enter a church." Bill -Spaceman- Lee

TR in Arod's case he went to Westminster Cristian. Coach Rich Hofman, (BA HS coach of the decade for the 90's) was the coach at Westminster at that time. He also played with Doug Mankiewitz(sp?) on the same team. At that school Arod was a 4 year starter and as a senior was BA hs player of the year and Westminster Cristian won the state title and national championship.

He made the right choice for one reason only. He was told that ability was a non-issue and that he would have been on jv no matter what. In Florida private schools play very good baseball and coaches that are inflexible lose players all of the time. It may touch a nerve with you and your experiences, but it is not uncommon here.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

Cream rises to the top !

People like to say that Michael Jordan was "cut" from his high school basketball team. The truth is, the school had a policy that sophomores couldn't play on the varsity team, relegating Jordan to JVs. Was he better than the last guy on the varsity team? Probably. Did it hurt him to play JV? Doesn't seem that way.

D'oh!

I feel for your family, because this isnt something that the player goes thru by himself, sometimes affecting the parents more than the child. Last year we were forced with the decision of changing schools if he ever wanted to play baseball in high school. Basically told to find another program, so we did. Results were only playing jv because of eligibility and making new friends, new classes etc etc. Grades went in the dumper that first year. We wondered if we made a mistake. Well...in fact it was the correct decision, now on a starting rotation, pitching, 3rd base, and started the season 2-3 with his first homerun at the varsity level. And the important part of school, grades came in at a 3.5...and he gets to play against his old coach 3 times this year.

BIG

You need to do you homework--or take the blinders off !!!

I am not as stupid as you might think I am

TRhit

Trhit

Unfit? Unfair? The definition changes according to who you talk to. If everything is going ok and the team is winning he is fit. when they start to lose he is unfit. Sarcastic maybe but in some cases that is how a coach is measured. As far as being fair all kidding aside a fair coach does what is right not expedient. when I coached I liked to win as much as the next guy but sometimes I had to do what I had to do. I learned a long time ago if you try to please everybody you are in trouble.

One of my son's best experiences happened because he was sent back to JV. As a freshman he was thrilled to be invited to pre-season pitcher's week, and he made varsity, but was then told he would "mess up the rotation" and so was sent to JV. He was crushed!! But that was a wonderful season on JV, he had a great year, pitched a lot, #1 in the rotation,
and built up his confidence. The truth is, he wasn't READY for Varsity, even though he had some skills for that level. He was young (14), immature, and obviously had no HS experience. Last year as a sophomore he was really ready for varsity and had a great season. I don't think that would have happened without JV.

quote:

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BIG

You need to do you homework--or take the blinders off !!!

I am not as stupid as you might think I am

TRhit

---

What are you talking about? That is a totally inappropriate response to my post. Did I ever call you stupid? Totally inappropriate to the post. Do my homework on what? Take the blinders off about what? Make some sense or at least let me know what set you off.

You know Tom, I have always shown you respect. Some light kidding, yes. I however cannot figure this one out. I post. You respond. I answer. You accuse me of calling you stupid? You tell me that I am wearing blinders? Not only do I not uderstand your attitude problem, I resent it. You owe me an apology. I will never get one, but you owe me one. Read it again and please explain to me how I insulted you. Are you upset because of the line "It may touch a nerve with you and your experiences, but it is not uncommon here." I was just pointing out how it works down here. What is wrong with that? Too weird! If that is what you are angry with, then you need to calm down.


the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

Actually we know who has the blinders on.

There is only one person on this board that consistently defends coaches, no matter how bad they are.

I guess he does't get out much.