Lamber:
You must be referring to me. As I have said many, many times, I always respect the coach until he gives me reason not to. That does not mean I will agree with his decisions, but I certainly expect his right to make them.
By far, most coaches I have encountered are very good. Not all. And if the coach is not good, then the choice is either to persevere or move on. Similar to life.
Complaining usually doesn't work, and those who seek problems usually will find them. And, bottom line, if the player is truly good enough it wont't matter. If the player really isn't quite good enough, it won't matter then either.
Finally, a coach can be good for certain players and not for others. That's why so many get fired. You can't play the game without them, that's for sure, which is part of the reason I am so befuddled by so much of the animosity here that is directed at so many coaches in general. Go figure.
My advice?
Welcome to the real world.
Both you and your son are getting a valuable life lesson...actually a couple of lessons.
The first lesson is for you, and that is; you no longer can, nor should you, protect your son. Yes, the world is cruel AND UNFAIR, but as you know, most of the time you cannot control life's cruel and unfair twists. Your son needs to deal with this on his own. Your anxiety and making it an issue isn't making it easier for your son, even though you think it is. And even though you love your boy and want the best opportunity for him, you need to let him take take it on the chin and deal with the frustration on his own.
The second lesson is for your son, and this is...like yours...life is unfair, and many times you need to be an Indian who has to eat crow. However, as many a wise old-timer will tell you, "this too shall pass."
You and your son need to have patience. Yes, it sounds like the manager is a complete ***...so what...he's the manager, and that's the team your son is on, thus you need to make the best out of a situation you have little control over.
When your boy is DH'ing, he needs to make the best out of it, play hard, drive the ball to the opposite field, high on base %, bat for average, etc. etc.
This will make him tougher...and more importantly wiser. In a way, this might be a blessing in disguise.
Good luck...
Peace
Welcome to the real world.
Both you and your son are getting a valuable life lesson...actually a couple of lessons.
The first lesson is for you, and that is; you no longer can, nor should you, protect your son. Yes, the world is cruel AND UNFAIR, but as you know, most of the time you cannot control life's cruel and unfair twists. Your son needs to deal with this on his own. Your anxiety and making it an issue isn't making it easier for your son, even though you think it is. And even though you love your boy and want the best opportunity for him, you need to let him take take it on the chin and deal with the frustration on his own.
The second lesson is for your son, and this is...like yours...life is unfair, and many times you need to be an Indian who has to eat crow. However, as many a wise old-timer will tell you, "this too shall pass."
You and your son need to have patience. Yes, it sounds like the manager is a complete ***...so what...he's the manager, and that's the team your son is on, thus you need to make the best out of a situation you have little control over.
When your boy is DH'ing, he needs to make the best out of it, play hard, drive the ball to the opposite field, high on base %, bat for average, etc. etc.
This will make him tougher...and more importantly wiser. In a way, this might be a blessing in disguise.
Good luck...
Peace
BIG
Apparently you don't know the full AROD story--how he held out until the day classes began at Univ of MIami--how is sister claimed that she was handling his business before he signed due to the fact that he was not that fluent in the English language--LOL
And where did he transfer ?? You fill in the blanks
LAMBER--
I still have that recurring nitemare---ouch-- but I do wish I knew as much as you think you know--
But I do not protect every coach--if you knew me as well as you think you do you would know that
TRhit
Apparently you don't know the full AROD story--how he held out until the day classes began at Univ of MIami--how is sister claimed that she was handling his business before he signed due to the fact that he was not that fluent in the English language--LOL
And where did he transfer ?? You fill in the blanks
LAMBER--
I still have that recurring nitemare---ouch-- but I do wish I knew as much as you think you know--
But I do not protect every coach--if you knew me as well as you think you do you would know that
TRhit
Why does he need a patient?
Ok, I have to speak up here.
TR,
I have seen Big post some really insulting stuff, but I can't for the life of me after reading the thread a few times see what he did to insult you.
Maybe I am wearing blinders......but anyway here are my definitions.
Unfit Coach is one that puts more emphasis on winning at all costs over the health and safety of his players.
Unfair Coach is one who is labeled as such by parents who feel their kids got the raw end of the deal.
Let's just all try to chill and have a good time here.
TR,
I have seen Big post some really insulting stuff, but I can't for the life of me after reading the thread a few times see what he did to insult you.
Maybe I am wearing blinders......but anyway here are my definitions.
Unfit Coach is one that puts more emphasis on winning at all costs over the health and safety of his players.
Unfair Coach is one who is labeled as such by parents who feel their kids got the raw end of the deal.
Let's just all try to chill and have a good time here.
baseonballs
I never said he insulted me--he made note of it not me
I just felt he should take a closer look--
No problem--not upset here--not at all
Like your definitions--was not sure what UNFIT meant--thanx
TRhit
I never said he insulted me--he made note of it not me
I just felt he should take a closer look--
No problem--not upset here--not at all
Like your definitions--was not sure what UNFIT meant--thanx
TRhit
quote:
Apparently you don't know the full AROD story--how he held out until the day classes began at Univ of MIami--how is sister claimed that she was handling his business before he signed due to the fact that he was not that fluent in the English language--LOL
And where did he transfer ?? You fill in the blanks
Actually, I do know the whole story. What that has to do with my post baffles me. What is your point. One has nothing to do with the other. How does holding out until the last day of classes have to do with him transfering as a 9th grader. Nothing
Hey if he held out for more money, then god bless. It is the American way even if it isn't the TRhit way.
What does where he transferred to have to do with anything? Nothing! I made a statement. A truthful one. What is your problem? My question stands. What am I wearing blinders about? What do I need to do my homework about? In what way did I infer that you were stupid? Try to answer them this time.
For your information. What he did in regards to pro negotiations has nothing to do with the subject of not making the team or transferring because of it. You seem that there is some kind of cryptic connection there that only you see.
Your just don't have the what it takes to admit you overreacted. Just don't insult me by pretending that you did not accuse me of acting as if you are stupid. You wrote what you wrote. Or inferring that I got the story wrong. I did not. The facts are accurate.
quote:
I never said he insulted me--he made note of it not me
I just felt he should take a closer look--
No problem--not upset here--not at all
Like your definitions--was not sure what UNFIT meant--thanx
Typical of one of your responses. I have seen it before when you have over reacted and been called on it. You just play stupid. Well, How stupid do you think I am? You just could never admit that you were ever wrong could you? If that is the way you want it, then fine.
I don't need to take a closer look at anything. Again, my facts are accurate and you are not making sense.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
quote:
Originally posted by CapitalBaseball:
My advice?
Welcome to the real world.
Both you and your son are getting a valuable life lesson...actually a couple of lessons.
The first lesson is for you, and that is; you no longer can, nor should you, protect your son. Yes, the world is cruel AND UNFAIR, but as you know, most of the time you cannot control life's cruel and unfair twists. Your son needs to deal with this on his own. Your anxiety and making it an issue isn't making it easier for your son, even though you think it is. And even though you love your boy and want the best opportunity for him, you need to let him take take it on the chin and deal with the frustration on his own.
The second lesson is for your son, and this is...like yours...life is unfair, and many times you need to be an Indian who has to eat crow. However, as many a wise old-timer will tell you, "this too shall pass."
You and your son need to have patience. Yes, it sounds like the manager is a complete ***...so what...he's the manager, and that's the team your son is on, thus you need to make the best out of a situation you have little control over.
When your boy is DH'ing, he needs to make the best out of it, play hard, drive the ball to the opposite field, high on base %, bat for average, etc. etc.
This will make him tougher...and more importantly wiser. In a way, this might be a blessing in disguise.
Good luck...
Peace
quote:
Arod was a 4 year starter and as a senior was BA hs player of the year and Westminster Cristian won the state title and national championship.
For the record, from an interview conducted on BA's (Baseball America) website:
BA: Your last act as a high school player, your senior year, was making a throwing error that cost your team a shot at the state title. How do you handle it when you’re this big shot, everyone’s making a big fuss, and all of a sudden you’re the goat?
Rodriguez: That was the most painful experience I’ve ever had on the playing field, the most devastating.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/leagues/HS_amateur/arod0306.html
Why is it so hard for people to read what is written and respond directly to what
is in front of them? This happens a lot here. Before hitting "Post Now" read it
again to see if it is logical, if not, change it.
Moc1
is in front of them? This happens a lot here. Before hitting "Post Now" read it
again to see if it is logical, if not, change it.
Moc1
This is great!
Moc,
It's like the game of telephone, you start with one topic and end with something that has nothing to do with the original post.
It's like the game of telephone, you start with one topic and end with something that has nothing to do with the original post.
It seems that I have opened up quite a can of worms here. Let me clarify my position on a few things. First on my use of the term unfit coach. I certainly intended no disrespect to any of the coaches on this forum or any other of the thousands of competent, fair coaches throughout the land. Sadly enough, there are unfit coaches out there. Let me give you an example...a coach who thinks batting practice is taking some swings off a kid throwing lobs from behind a l-screen while pitching machines collect dust. Or a coach that puts personal relationships ahead of actual baseball ability.
I can understand that it is hard to accept as fact that I am giving you an objective view point as to my sons abilities. All I can do is give you my word. I have seen many great pro players apply there skills on the diamond and when I watch a game, and I have been to hunderds, I watch it as someone who is not just a fan but a lover of the game, for what it is, pure athletic art played out before your eyes. I know a good arm when I see one, I know what a good swing looks like, I know what speed is. My statements can be taken as fact. The original post was mostly a venting session.
It is a very frustrating situation. And I defend my statement as to my child's future being affected by the actions of his coach. This kid wants to play baseball and I believe he has the skill to play at the college level whether DI, II, III, juco or whatever. His coaches have a huge impact on his future. Of course I know that he may never play college baseball, but right now the dream is alive and all I want is for him to get a fair shot. If you can't believe that some coaches make unfair decisions whether based on personal relationships or whatever, I say to you WAKE UP !
I can understand that it is hard to accept as fact that I am giving you an objective view point as to my sons abilities. All I can do is give you my word. I have seen many great pro players apply there skills on the diamond and when I watch a game, and I have been to hunderds, I watch it as someone who is not just a fan but a lover of the game, for what it is, pure athletic art played out before your eyes. I know a good arm when I see one, I know what a good swing looks like, I know what speed is. My statements can be taken as fact. The original post was mostly a venting session.
It is a very frustrating situation. And I defend my statement as to my child's future being affected by the actions of his coach. This kid wants to play baseball and I believe he has the skill to play at the college level whether DI, II, III, juco or whatever. His coaches have a huge impact on his future. Of course I know that he may never play college baseball, but right now the dream is alive and all I want is for him to get a fair shot. If you can't believe that some coaches make unfair decisions whether based on personal relationships or whatever, I say to you WAKE UP !
rd,
It is ok for you to vent,but you have to be careful what you vent about. Being uspet because your son may be in a situation that may be detremental to his health is one thing, venting because your son doesn't get the recognition you feel he deserves does not make his coach unfit or unfair. Your son is probably a very fine player and may get the opp to play in college or further. His HS playing opportunity will not make or break him. It's just that if you polled 100 parents 98% would swear their kid is the best skilled on the team. I would imagine a coach who has to hear this year in and year out gets tired of it and some perceive it as bad coaching.
Earning a startng spot on the team is something that is often earned even for the most skilled players, we have cited those examples. Your frustration will just add to his, be careful what you say in front of him. Some parents tell their boys they are the best, and when the let down comes they wonder why their parents told them they were always the best. Those of us that have been there are also offering advice on the parenting that goes along with your child's development. Don't be insulted by my statement but I feel a different set of rules comes into play when raising a child that is so dedicated to something he may or may not earn a living at someday. Don't ever take away the dream, just try to keep things in perspective.
We never ever told our son he was the best player on any team (though we always thought he was). It was up to him to figure out where he fell in the scheme of things and if he really was not happy he had to make things happen. His coaches did not determine his future, his natural ability, his love of competition, his determination and I might add good grades did.
I think this sums up what most of us have tried to expalin to you.
It is ok for you to vent,but you have to be careful what you vent about. Being uspet because your son may be in a situation that may be detremental to his health is one thing, venting because your son doesn't get the recognition you feel he deserves does not make his coach unfit or unfair. Your son is probably a very fine player and may get the opp to play in college or further. His HS playing opportunity will not make or break him. It's just that if you polled 100 parents 98% would swear their kid is the best skilled on the team. I would imagine a coach who has to hear this year in and year out gets tired of it and some perceive it as bad coaching.
Earning a startng spot on the team is something that is often earned even for the most skilled players, we have cited those examples. Your frustration will just add to his, be careful what you say in front of him. Some parents tell their boys they are the best, and when the let down comes they wonder why their parents told them they were always the best. Those of us that have been there are also offering advice on the parenting that goes along with your child's development. Don't be insulted by my statement but I feel a different set of rules comes into play when raising a child that is so dedicated to something he may or may not earn a living at someday. Don't ever take away the dream, just try to keep things in perspective.
We never ever told our son he was the best player on any team (though we always thought he was). It was up to him to figure out where he fell in the scheme of things and if he really was not happy he had to make things happen. His coaches did not determine his future, his natural ability, his love of competition, his determination and I might add good grades did.
I think this sums up what most of us have tried to expalin to you.
words of rdfrazier...
"This kid wants to play baseball and I believe he has the skill to play at the college level whether DI, II, III, juco or whatever. His coaches have a huge impact on his future. Of course I know that he may never play college baseball, but right now the dream is alive and all I want is for him to get a fair shot. If you can't believe that some coaches make unfair decisions whether based on personal relationships or whatever, I say to you WAKE UP !"
The advice I have is....
My son wants to play college (and he will next fall)...we too believe he has some skills...and he works hard, makes good grades, and plays on a team that has gotten - well, last place each year...but he PLAYED 3 summers on some good teams to offset that...
Now we have not really dealt with the unfair or seemingly unfit part by and large, except during his freshman year when he played on Varsity...(and he really wasn't ready)...that coach did get fired...so...it was not without its own set of issues.
We elected to up his odds by playing on select/travel teams during the summer...we did this after his freshman, soph and junior years...and it challenged him to find out what he was really made of...and just last summer alone he was barely home...but followed his dream...
Then he opted to play on a fall showcase team which played at various colleges...got seen, had a few good outings and is doing the very thing your son aspires to do...
I really wish him success...a good attitude along with his skills and his own work ethic will make him a very coachable young man...
good luck...and hang in there...
"This kid wants to play baseball and I believe he has the skill to play at the college level whether DI, II, III, juco or whatever. His coaches have a huge impact on his future. Of course I know that he may never play college baseball, but right now the dream is alive and all I want is for him to get a fair shot. If you can't believe that some coaches make unfair decisions whether based on personal relationships or whatever, I say to you WAKE UP !"
The advice I have is....
My son wants to play college (and he will next fall)...we too believe he has some skills...and he works hard, makes good grades, and plays on a team that has gotten - well, last place each year...but he PLAYED 3 summers on some good teams to offset that...
Now we have not really dealt with the unfair or seemingly unfit part by and large, except during his freshman year when he played on Varsity...(and he really wasn't ready)...that coach did get fired...so...it was not without its own set of issues.
We elected to up his odds by playing on select/travel teams during the summer...we did this after his freshman, soph and junior years...and it challenged him to find out what he was really made of...and just last summer alone he was barely home...but followed his dream...
Then he opted to play on a fall showcase team which played at various colleges...got seen, had a few good outings and is doing the very thing your son aspires to do...
I really wish him success...a good attitude along with his skills and his own work ethic will make him a very coachable young man...
good luck...and hang in there...
Once again thanks to all who responded to this post. It's clear that the regular followers of this forum are very passionate about the game just as I am. When I want to talk to someone about baseball I'll know where to go.
RD
You are on the ONLY site that you will get the right answers--whether you agree or disagree is up to you--but I advise you to hang out here
TRhit
You are on the ONLY site that you will get the right answers--whether you agree or disagree is up to you--but I advise you to hang out here
TRhit
tjero
When you son gets to the "REAL WORLD" , work for a living and not play baseball is that what you suggest--Quit and RUN to another location--cmon now-- the true life world is not that-- people work in jobs where they don't get along with their supervisors ( ie Coaches)and they make a nice living-- it is called doing what you have to-- and please don't cry persecution to me-- I know many who come from a similar backround as you have described for yourself . my parents included,and they are doing very well and certainly seem to be coping with the world around them--
"I removed from my son from that situation"--
may I be stupid and ask how he learns to cope with life situations?
Think about that for a minute in the privacy of your own home!
TRhit
When you son gets to the "REAL WORLD" , work for a living and not play baseball is that what you suggest--Quit and RUN to another location--cmon now-- the true life world is not that-- people work in jobs where they don't get along with their supervisors ( ie Coaches)and they make a nice living-- it is called doing what you have to-- and please don't cry persecution to me-- I know many who come from a similar backround as you have described for yourself . my parents included,and they are doing very well and certainly seem to be coping with the world around them--
"I removed from my son from that situation"--
may I be stupid and ask how he learns to cope with life situations?
Think about that for a minute in the privacy of your own home!
TRhit
Lighten up Trhit, I think all Tim's dad is saying find a team where you'll get a chance to play. Plenty of people change teams/jobs all the time for a better opportunity, it has noting to do with "quiting." Its called knowing when to move on and its often beneficial to both parties....... Of course, if you do this every three months that is a problem and opportunities will begin to pass you by!
Tim's a considerate kid who'll do fine in the Real World.
Tim's a considerate kid who'll do fine in the Real World.
TRHits
I understand your point of view in assumption of responsibility for a commitment. That I have no problem with, and I am a stickler about finishing what you start. But I'm also a thinking person that understands that good intentions, with poor management can create an untenable excercise in futility.
What I mean is that there is an undeniable triangular relationship between the player, parents, and coach. It is more prevalent as the player is younger, and less so with maturity of the player, but none-the-less that relationship exist until the player is fully functioning on his own as an adult.
In a situation where the primary functionary has been the father as the players coach it is unreasonable for any other coach to assume that relationship is severable by edict especially if the player is a young boy, (not-yet-in-HS). It is however, not acceptable that a father interfere with the coach, his methods or his management of the team...and this I have never done. But it is reasonable to speak to the player and find out what is pertinent to the training and any instruction that may have a deleterious affect on proper mechanics or skills of the player.
Removal of the player from a program has to be made with great care, since its ramifications can have long term consequences. But that has to be weighed against the damage that is being done to your players skills, if there is poor instruction, or his confidence if he is being verbally abused, as was one case with Tim. The question than becomes as a responsible parent, would you allow your child to remain in an abusive situation? The answer is a resounding, no!
In effect the times I have removed Tim from a program was by not returning to the program the following season. It has worked both for him and against him. For him, since he no longer had to deal with a je*rk making his BB experience miserable, but against him because having the je*rk as residue wherein his word might have an impact on what chances Tim might get down the road can prove to be annoying when people assume the je*rk's negative opinion is correct. Of course, after they get a chance to meet Tim and see what a peach of a young man he is and find out that we are the most supportive parents of both Tim and the BB program that he is participating with they realize that Tim's qualities are desirable and a previous coach might not like the idea of having being sperned by us. We just don't like coaches that are the take-it-or-lump-it types. Adults should be able to discuss things and come to an understanding of how to solve issues. That's the way you deal with people, not with an iron fist.
tjro
I understand your point of view in assumption of responsibility for a commitment. That I have no problem with, and I am a stickler about finishing what you start. But I'm also a thinking person that understands that good intentions, with poor management can create an untenable excercise in futility.
What I mean is that there is an undeniable triangular relationship between the player, parents, and coach. It is more prevalent as the player is younger, and less so with maturity of the player, but none-the-less that relationship exist until the player is fully functioning on his own as an adult.
In a situation where the primary functionary has been the father as the players coach it is unreasonable for any other coach to assume that relationship is severable by edict especially if the player is a young boy, (not-yet-in-HS). It is however, not acceptable that a father interfere with the coach, his methods or his management of the team...and this I have never done. But it is reasonable to speak to the player and find out what is pertinent to the training and any instruction that may have a deleterious affect on proper mechanics or skills of the player.
Removal of the player from a program has to be made with great care, since its ramifications can have long term consequences. But that has to be weighed against the damage that is being done to your players skills, if there is poor instruction, or his confidence if he is being verbally abused, as was one case with Tim. The question than becomes as a responsible parent, would you allow your child to remain in an abusive situation? The answer is a resounding, no!
In effect the times I have removed Tim from a program was by not returning to the program the following season. It has worked both for him and against him. For him, since he no longer had to deal with a je*rk making his BB experience miserable, but against him because having the je*rk as residue wherein his word might have an impact on what chances Tim might get down the road can prove to be annoying when people assume the je*rk's negative opinion is correct. Of course, after they get a chance to meet Tim and see what a peach of a young man he is and find out that we are the most supportive parents of both Tim and the BB program that he is participating with they realize that Tim's qualities are desirable and a previous coach might not like the idea of having being sperned by us. We just don't like coaches that are the take-it-or-lump-it types. Adults should be able to discuss things and come to an understanding of how to solve issues. That's the way you deal with people, not with an iron fist.
tjro
tjro
What does your son learn by being taken out of every program you find to be "wrong" for you?
How do you propose he handle the "real" life when he looks for a job-- will he quit every job he gets because he does not like the boss or the guy/lady sitting at the desk next to him.
And please don't give me the persecution stuff-- my gradnparents came from the other side so I am just as much an alien as you---they spoke their native language in their home up until the day they passed on---- that persecution stuff is a COP OUT !!!It does not cut it with me.
There is prejudice all around us--one just has to learn how to cope with it.
I wish your son the best with his future but in my opinion, for whatever that is worth to you, you are harming him more than helping him with your rhetoric.
OH --- and by the way the name is TRhit not TRhits
TRhit
What does your son learn by being taken out of every program you find to be "wrong" for you?
How do you propose he handle the "real" life when he looks for a job-- will he quit every job he gets because he does not like the boss or the guy/lady sitting at the desk next to him.
And please don't give me the persecution stuff-- my gradnparents came from the other side so I am just as much an alien as you---they spoke their native language in their home up until the day they passed on---- that persecution stuff is a COP OUT !!!It does not cut it with me.
There is prejudice all around us--one just has to learn how to cope with it.
I wish your son the best with his future but in my opinion, for whatever that is worth to you, you are harming him more than helping him with your rhetoric.
OH --- and by the way the name is TRhit not TRhits
TRhit
why don't you guys start another thread...call it something like...."Good Old Fashioned Baseball Flame Wars 2004"
TR can analyze anything and everything over the internet without ever seeing the subject.
rd/lamber
Not a flame war-- a discussion between two gentlemen who see things from different sides--I do not see any name calling in our discussion
TRhit
Not a flame war-- a discussion between two gentlemen who see things from different sides--I do not see any name calling in our discussion
TRhit
TRhit
Sorry for the misspell...it was not intentional.
I told you here that I would spend that one day answering your questions about who I was and where i come from. At 62 years old I cannot change my life's experiences as I see them...to do so is to white wash the reality of how they have molded an uncompromising motivation within to succeed in spite of them.
However please, never mention it to me again. I answered all your questions...you may have not liked the answers, but that;s life...let's move on!
As for Tim's opportunities to deal with and function at a high level of perfomance in unappetizing situations, believe me he has had his share. But that's only an aside that has given him a perspective which for a young man is mature beyond his years. When he was a pre-teen we felt it was our responsibiltiy to protect him from bad influences, and that is not only other children with bad habits, but adults who don't know how to conduct themselves properly in front of children, and that includes coaches. Why, because we didn't want our son to become cynical with life before he even had a chance to find out who he is. So many people don't understand that and then wonder why they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars going to shrinks.
It has paid off to some degree, but Tim is not perfect and has his own monkey's to deal with. He could be a better student, and it probably would help him to be more gregarious, but he is a shy, quiet sort of guy with great instincts toward others. But we know that he has the potential to be a great ballplayer. How it all turns out is really up to him now. But we can't undo what we thought was best for him. We protected him as much as we thought we should...we think we have a pretty good guy.
The true test is if Tim never played another inning of baseball would we be worried about him having a good and productive life...the answer is no. Tim will grow into full manhood and be an asset in whatever he does, why, because people genuinely like him.
tjro
Sorry for the misspell...it was not intentional.
I told you here that I would spend that one day answering your questions about who I was and where i come from. At 62 years old I cannot change my life's experiences as I see them...to do so is to white wash the reality of how they have molded an uncompromising motivation within to succeed in spite of them.
However please, never mention it to me again. I answered all your questions...you may have not liked the answers, but that;s life...let's move on!
As for Tim's opportunities to deal with and function at a high level of perfomance in unappetizing situations, believe me he has had his share. But that's only an aside that has given him a perspective which for a young man is mature beyond his years. When he was a pre-teen we felt it was our responsibiltiy to protect him from bad influences, and that is not only other children with bad habits, but adults who don't know how to conduct themselves properly in front of children, and that includes coaches. Why, because we didn't want our son to become cynical with life before he even had a chance to find out who he is. So many people don't understand that and then wonder why they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars going to shrinks.
It has paid off to some degree, but Tim is not perfect and has his own monkey's to deal with. He could be a better student, and it probably would help him to be more gregarious, but he is a shy, quiet sort of guy with great instincts toward others. But we know that he has the potential to be a great ballplayer. How it all turns out is really up to him now. But we can't undo what we thought was best for him. We protected him as much as we thought we should...we think we have a pretty good guy.
The true test is if Tim never played another inning of baseball would we be worried about him having a good and productive life...the answer is no. Tim will grow into full manhood and be an asset in whatever he does, why, because people genuinely like him.
tjro
You talk about what will he do if faced with adversity later in life, etc. I find that to be a supremely naive or sadistic answer. This is an optional baseball program that is taking a significant chunk of this kid's life and probably finances. Would there be any reason to needlessly suffer through a bad experience if he could change it? Would you force your child to go to the same park everyday, if every day there he was beaten up by a bully he could do nothing about? No. You would say let's find a different park, where you can have fun. You wouldn't make him keep going just to "teach him about how life is tough." Remember why this game was invented? Fun. If it's not fun, why do it?
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Lonelobo
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Lonelobo
Argh, double post.
LoneLobo
Do you not view baseball as a means of learning how to cope and function in the workday world ?
I also do not believe you keep running for tough situations--you soon run out of options if you keep running.
TRhit
Do you not view baseball as a means of learning how to cope and function in the workday world ?
I also do not believe you keep running for tough situations--you soon run out of options if you keep running.
TRhit
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
LoneLobo
Do you not view baseball as a means of learning how to cope and function in the workday world ?
TRhit
Absolutely not. It's a freaking game that we play for enjoyment. If you're not enjoying it here, try somewhere else. If you can't enjoy it there, move on to life.
And staying around a tough situation can be just as stupid as running from one. Each circumstance is different.
But, I forgot that TR knows all and sees all from behind his keyboard.
Not only are you from a different generation, you're out of touch.
Lamber:
TR needs no defense with me, but I must say that if you believe he is out of touch, you are either not understanding what he writes or you are badly misguided. Lighten up and take advantage of what he has to offer.
TR needs no defense with me, but I must say that if you believe he is out of touch, you are either not understanding what he writes or you are badly misguided. Lighten up and take advantage of what he has to offer.
LAMBER
#1 I was posting to LoneLobo
#2 --if you have a problem with me pick up the phone and call me-- People, if you ask, will tell you that I do pick up the phone.
jemaz
Thanx for the kind words--it is because of websters such as yourself that I put up with the likes of LAMBER--
TRhit
#1 I was posting to LoneLobo
#2 --if you have a problem with me pick up the phone and call me-- People, if you ask, will tell you that I do pick up the phone.
jemaz
Thanx for the kind words--it is because of websters such as yourself that I put up with the likes of LAMBER--
TRhit
Some good points by all re: dealing with adverse circumstances...face 'em, fight 'em, work through 'em or run? I do believe that any good points are basically ignored by rational people when prefaced by stating that team sports has "absolutely nothing" to do with a kid's ability to deal in his future world. It has, and always will, teach and/or show how a child will tend to deal with future circumstances. I see way too many circumstances of "us against the world" and "everyone's out to get me" in baseball...and when they talk about there "everyday life" (school, work, etc.) it seems to be the very same attitudes...so , IMO, anyone who believes that it's "just a game" and has no bearing on future relationships is misguided! 
Talent Is Never Enough!
Talent Is Never Enough!
The thing is, this is not a situation where the player can "work through it". He cannot get his coach to stop being an ***, nor can he get his coach to like him more. Why stick around? Just to show everyone how tough he is, by putting up with something optional that he doesn't like? Score two points for the masochists.
This isn't a case of running from a tough situation, it's a case of taking a different path.
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Lonelobo
This isn't a case of running from a tough situation, it's a case of taking a different path.
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Lonelobo
daddybo
One size does not fit all. Would you continue to wear a pair of shoes that hurt your feet, and could do permanent damage to your bone structure as happened with some in my family because as a child a new pair of shoes was a luxury. As a child, not in control, I had to, but now as an adult I know the difference and can do better with a new pair of shoes.
Life is just like that...you either stay with what's bad for you or you use your God-given intelligence and do something about your situation.
It's the difference between someone who complains about their job but is unwilling to reeducate themselves, and someone who sees the problem, sets a new goal for themselves and changes their circumstances for the better. That's what American means to me, the chance to better your lot, if and only if, you personally are willing to do something for yourself. It is not about forcing someone else to comply with their idea of where you should be or remain so.
That's the philosophy that I have learned to operate with in our lives...since you are speaking in terms of life's lessons. You can't have it both ways. Either you're for changing your circumstances in betterment of your lot, or you're not.
With my son, we were prepared to do whatever it took to always search for a better deal if necessary, but we would have preferred to have found a place that Tim could've developed over the long term. We think we have found it with Area Code. And after all isn't that just what ball teams are always doing with talent, and ball players and coaches are doing to improve their chances to get to the "big dance".
tjro
One size does not fit all. Would you continue to wear a pair of shoes that hurt your feet, and could do permanent damage to your bone structure as happened with some in my family because as a child a new pair of shoes was a luxury. As a child, not in control, I had to, but now as an adult I know the difference and can do better with a new pair of shoes.
Life is just like that...you either stay with what's bad for you or you use your God-given intelligence and do something about your situation.
It's the difference between someone who complains about their job but is unwilling to reeducate themselves, and someone who sees the problem, sets a new goal for themselves and changes their circumstances for the better. That's what American means to me, the chance to better your lot, if and only if, you personally are willing to do something for yourself. It is not about forcing someone else to comply with their idea of where you should be or remain so.
That's the philosophy that I have learned to operate with in our lives...since you are speaking in terms of life's lessons. You can't have it both ways. Either you're for changing your circumstances in betterment of your lot, or you're not.
With my son, we were prepared to do whatever it took to always search for a better deal if necessary, but we would have preferred to have found a place that Tim could've developed over the long term. We think we have found it with Area Code. And after all isn't that just what ball teams are always doing with talent, and ball players and coaches are doing to improve their chances to get to the "big dance".
tjro
tjro
As I stated before...good responses by all. My little dissertation was mainly in response to Lamber's emphatic denial that baseball has nothing to do with learning to cope in the workday world...that was total bull! I agree with you "one size does not fit all". I also somewhat agree that you can't have it both ways. A small difference I might point out is that sometimes, and I do mean sometimes, a change of circumstances might not be the answer...sometimes even adverse circumstances can change us for the better. I know that I have had situations I thought to be detrimental to me and yet, while working through it, deciding to change or not, I realized that those circumstances weren't as bad as originally thought...only my emotion made them larger than life. I do not know you so, therefore; I can't pretend to help or know you situation(s)...but I do know people in my area that their circumstances, to hear them tell it, are always dealing them wrongly.
To use your analogy, the shoes don't fit them, they do damage to them, so then the shoes, and those who provided the shoes, must be garbage! We all know that it's just that the shoes aren't the best for them. It's according to what kind of surface they are treading whether it might be good to toss the shoes immediately or, looking at the ground ahead, maybe find a way to use them short term, even for your benefit. WOW, a little longer than I intended, but did not want you to misinterpret. Best of Luck
Talent Is Never Enough!
As I stated before...good responses by all. My little dissertation was mainly in response to Lamber's emphatic denial that baseball has nothing to do with learning to cope in the workday world...that was total bull! I agree with you "one size does not fit all". I also somewhat agree that you can't have it both ways. A small difference I might point out is that sometimes, and I do mean sometimes, a change of circumstances might not be the answer...sometimes even adverse circumstances can change us for the better. I know that I have had situations I thought to be detrimental to me and yet, while working through it, deciding to change or not, I realized that those circumstances weren't as bad as originally thought...only my emotion made them larger than life. I do not know you so, therefore; I can't pretend to help or know you situation(s)...but I do know people in my area that their circumstances, to hear them tell it, are always dealing them wrongly.
To use your analogy, the shoes don't fit them, they do damage to them, so then the shoes, and those who provided the shoes, must be garbage! We all know that it's just that the shoes aren't the best for them. It's according to what kind of surface they are treading whether it might be good to toss the shoes immediately or, looking at the ground ahead, maybe find a way to use them short term, even for your benefit. WOW, a little longer than I intended, but did not want you to misinterpret. Best of Luck
Talent Is Never Enough!
I like Lamber's words of "wisdom". LOL
Just a bad joke in cyberspace.
Here's my take - read his posts/rants - then do the exact opposite - and you will be all right. LOL
Just a bad joke in cyberspace.
Here's my take - read his posts/rants - then do the exact opposite - and you will be all right. LOL
quote:
Originally posted by DaddyBo:
_tjro_
My little dissertation was mainly in response to Lamber's emphatic denial that baseball has nothing to do with learning to cope in the workday world...
Didn't say that. What TR said was "isn't baseball a means of how to deal with the workday world". It is not. Never has been. No sport is.
Doesn't mean you can't learn some valuable lessons.
If baseball or any other sport was just about the sport itself then I would not be coaching it. Baseball mirrors life. The kid that quits in a tough situation on the field is likely to quit in a tough situation in life. The kid who is given excuses for not making the grade in baseball is probaly the kid that is given excuses for not making the grade in the classroom. My college coach told me something a long time ago that stuck with me my whole life. He said "Never run from a problem because it will chase you the rest of your life untill you stand up to it". Anyone who just plays the game because it is just a game to them is a rec player. Show me someone that just sees it as JUST A GAME and Ill show you someone I dont want on my team. Hes the kid that would never take one for the team. Sit the bench with a great attitude because its best for the team. Leave skin on the field because he wants too. Its just a game? Its just a game? Find me one real player or coach that feels this way. The day its just a game I will find something else to do.
Coach May
There is a distinction that you are ignoring. It is a factual reality that life is more than a game. Young boys watch the behavior of adults, listen with skepticism and usually follow what seems to be the most popular boy amongst them.
All the philosphizing about life's requirements for about diligence will have no meaning to them if they can't hit a FB or a CB.
It became obvious to me that parents nowadays think winning comes without sacrifice. Teaching the lessons that you advocate would get you in a heep of trouble with the LL programs in this area.
In California, where moral imperatives are passe, speaking in terms of concrete levels of black and white, and right and wrong, will get you removed from your coaching position.
Here, we are into not offending anyone. So speaking your mind can be a self-defeating exercise in coaching perdition. It is for that reason your lines-drawn-in-the-sand, kind of coaching will probably work with children with parents that still have moral compasses.
There is so much, double standard, double-talk, and hypocrisy with people now that adults even have children learning that they aren't really girls when they're females, or boys when they're males.
Our girls or boys out here are them and they...and you want to talk to them about playing without regard for scrapping their skin...yeah, right, their parents would have you for lunch...good luck!!!
tjro
There is a distinction that you are ignoring. It is a factual reality that life is more than a game. Young boys watch the behavior of adults, listen with skepticism and usually follow what seems to be the most popular boy amongst them.
All the philosphizing about life's requirements for about diligence will have no meaning to them if they can't hit a FB or a CB.
It became obvious to me that parents nowadays think winning comes without sacrifice. Teaching the lessons that you advocate would get you in a heep of trouble with the LL programs in this area.
In California, where moral imperatives are passe, speaking in terms of concrete levels of black and white, and right and wrong, will get you removed from your coaching position.
Here, we are into not offending anyone. So speaking your mind can be a self-defeating exercise in coaching perdition. It is for that reason your lines-drawn-in-the-sand, kind of coaching will probably work with children with parents that still have moral compasses.
There is so much, double standard, double-talk, and hypocrisy with people now that adults even have children learning that they aren't really girls when they're females, or boys when they're males.
Our girls or boys out here are them and they...and you want to talk to them about playing without regard for scrapping their skin...yeah, right, their parents would have you for lunch...good luck!!!
tjro
Get serious.
So what you're saying is those kids who leave skin on the field and give all they've got are doing so so they'll be able to deal with life situations better????
BS.
They are doing it because they love the game. They are doing it because they want to be the best they can be.
And when it's all over, they will have learned much about life. But to say that is the reason they play is ridiculous.
Reminds me of my son's high school coach after a tough loss telling the kids he could care less about winning or losing. He just wants to play a role in making good citizens out of the kids.
Let me tell you something. None of the kids went out for baseball to learn about being good citizens. They went out for baseball to learn about the game. To play the game they love. To get as good as they can at the game. And, if they learn a little citizenship (his word) then fine. But that is a secondary benefit of having played.
If they kids were really interested in citizenship they would have taken Citizenship 101.
That makes as much sense as taking Citizenship 101 and the teacher saying we're hear to teach you a little baseball.
Ditto tjro!!!
So what you're saying is those kids who leave skin on the field and give all they've got are doing so so they'll be able to deal with life situations better????
BS.
They are doing it because they love the game. They are doing it because they want to be the best they can be.
And when it's all over, they will have learned much about life. But to say that is the reason they play is ridiculous.
Reminds me of my son's high school coach after a tough loss telling the kids he could care less about winning or losing. He just wants to play a role in making good citizens out of the kids.
Let me tell you something. None of the kids went out for baseball to learn about being good citizens. They went out for baseball to learn about the game. To play the game they love. To get as good as they can at the game. And, if they learn a little citizenship (his word) then fine. But that is a secondary benefit of having played.
If they kids were really interested in citizenship they would have taken Citizenship 101.
That makes as much sense as taking Citizenship 101 and the teacher saying we're hear to teach you a little baseball.
Ditto tjro!!!