Transfers - A series of unfortunate events

mrmom, You might be treading on some sacred ground. In respect to the old program, I for one would want to keep the episode under the family tree.

I would never say anything about a players "personal" issues. From my personal observations, a fair number transfer because of "playing time issues" or personality issues with coaches. I have also noted that a fair number "do better" when they transfer; more playing time and better stats. This is not a "blanket statement" just casual observation.

mrmom...It is definitely not an easy decision to make. When things are not working out for your son, whether it is a personality issue or a playing time issue, the decision to leave a program is huge. As CatSureMom implied, the grass may not always be greener on the other side, BUT sometimes it is. All I can say is that you pray a lot, gather as much information as you can about your particular "situation" and then you and your son make the decision that you feel is right for him and pray some more for the best. That is about all you can do. It can be tough.

It is a tough decision. My son is considering it. How do you go about getting permission? Does the player ask, or does the school that is interested in him ask the AD of his current school?

RipEm -
Depending on your situation, your son may need to get a formal release from his current school's athletic director to be able to continue playing baseball without sitting out a year. Transfer questions are always tough to answer because there are so many variables. I suggest reading the Div. I/II/III Transfer Guide then contacting the NCAA directly with your specific questions (Phone: 317/917-6222)

Great advice, RHP05Parent.

Ripem, RHP05 is giving you very very good advice. If your son is at an NCAA institution, the fact that there is already "another school interested in him" raises red flags. Your son cannot have any contact with another school and another school cannot have contact with him without the release from the AD and it is not the other school that approaches the AD..again if you are involved with the NCAA.

Mrmom,
I think many times the situation “just develops” and other times parents and players fail to listen on the front end. Those situations that “just develop” may be beyond our control but the others can be minimized. We all want good thing to happen to our sons and sometimes we get overly optimistic and only hear what we want to or fail to read between the lines. For instance: If the program had no (zero) freshmen start over the past few years why should things change just because your (my) son came to the program? We have to be brutally realist during the recruiting ride. I don’t lay blame on the college coaches simply because I don’t think coaches lie about playing time... but they can be a little vague. Sometimes you are left to fill in the blanks and that is when you need to be a realist. Another person’s perspective is always helpful during this time.
Good topic.
Fungo

Thanks, Infieldad.

That was my question. I thought the Rules indicated that the new school had to get permission to contact, and was wondering how/why they would do that if he can't contact them to tell them he would like to transfer. The NCAA echoed your advice and said my son should go to the compliance director at his current colllege (NCAA Div 1), that there'll probably be a form to fill out, and if he gets "permission to be contacted" it will apply for any interested school (although she said some schools may not approve in-conference tranfers). The bad thing is she said they can say no (although they have to give you an appeal to a non-athletic department panel before the denial is final).

My comment about other schools being interested was just my optimism/enthusiasm. Maybe I am off base, but I believe at least some other schools will be interested in him (they were last year, and he was highly-ranked by TeamOne and Baseball America), but there has been no contact yet. In fact I asked the question (and callled the NCAA) to make sure everything is done properly when he takes the first step toward transfer.

Good thread.

My son just went through it. I would be will ing to bet that more transfers takes place at semster than at the end of the year.

There are many more players in the fall and it is difficult to determine how many players actually enroll until you get to the campus.

My son was an incoming freshman scholarship pitcher at a well repected DI JC this fall. He quickly found out some of drafted pitchers from the previous year came back and a few HS drafted players arrived on campus and most of non drafted freshman pitchers from the previous year that received innings came back.

Short of the long story...it was going to be difficult to earn innings on this squad as non drafted frehman pitcher. Son had a great fall but the coach after the conclusion of the fall season advised him that he wanted to redshirt him as the innings he would recieve would be little due to such heavy sophmore laden pitching staff.

Son did not want to redshirt as he wanted to play and not go to a JC for three years and run the risk of running out of transferable classes The coach agreed to help him find another school as long as it was not within the conference.(that made the process a little more difficult) Had to scamble a little bit but because this took place in Nov. we had some time to make some calls and the coach backed him to the new coaches.

It worked out as son started and pitched on opening day and all is good so far. New coach likes him and his teamates like him and he will get plenty of innings. Main thing at a JC is that you need to PLAY. Can't get drafted or get a scholly at a four year school if you don't play.

Never give up as it might just work out if you keep fighing for your dream.

Fungo,

You are so right. In my experience, the recruiting coach says what the player and parents want to hear. Due diligence is necessary in order to ask the right questions. That said, once you have done your research and asked the questions,it is reprehensible for the coach to just lie about, for example, the number of players coming in/returning for at your son's position. Your son is making a key decision in his life and deserves truthful information, not a coach's lies or promises that will be broken when it's convenient.

Of course, if the coach tells your son he'll be competing for a spot with 3 or 4 guys, you accept the scholarship offer, and then the Coach decides (whether you agree or not) that your son is not going to play, that is a fair and honest approach. You cannot blame the Coach for making a decision, even if you disagree, when he told you what the situation was.

In either case, there is nothing wrong with seeking a transfer to another program that wants your son to play and the Coach would be wrong if he tried to stand in the way.

Ripem, very nice summary. Sounds like you have done all the right work and covered the "bases" so to speak. I am not aware of the "permission to be contacted" part. I think this may be semantics for the school giving your son his release per NCAA regulations. As I understood this when I researched it 2 years ago, only after your son has his "release" can he contact other schools or be contacted. If the school does not give the release even after appeal, a transfer can still occur but your son would need to sit out a year, which he does not if he has the release. Good luck and hope things work out well for him and you.

I'm seeing more and more transfers that are the direct result of coaches "overselling" their scholarship allotment. After the early signing period many of the bigger programs have promised more scholarships than they have available. As a result, they will need to "shed" players or reduce scholarships in order to make room for their incoming class. I've seen this happen numerous times and in many cases the players that are in the most jeopardy are those with the biggest scholarships (especially when they have a backup that is somewhat comparable and has a much smaller scholarship). I know this sounds jaded or cynical but these are cold, hard facts. I recently had a discussion with a smaller D1 coach that said he is frequently the beneficiary of larger programs pushing out players that are on large scholarships.

I only mention this because sometimes this is not a misunderstanding of the player or parent "hearing what they want to hear". It is strictly about money. I think this is a sad situation and so do some Universities. In fact, some institutions have developed policies that prohibit coaches from overcommitting scholarship dollars.

Just another thing to consider when your son is being recruited.

By way of tough sharing, son got on the coaches "high maintenance" list off the field. On the field things were OK.

I believe he was given ample warning but was not smart enough to curb his ways. Good bit of naivete on his part he was never quite able to understand how some players were treated differently than others. Was told scholly would be pulled but could come out for team. That pretty much sealed it. He never complained and neither did I we just went in another direction.

Pretty much unfortunate all around but he seems to be a little more grown up now and appreciates what he had more. I told him sometimes things that seem bad at the time turn out to be good in the long run.

It has served to increase his determination.

The one bit of advice I would give parents is, if possible, ascertain (either directly or indirectly) whether a coach is willing to talk to you about your sons progress/situation etc.
His coaches never spoke with me about him one time. His new coach talks to me fairly regularly. When he speaks to me I make sure my son understands.

I can hear the "he's gotta stand on his own two feet opinion" and I agree. But I'm talking about school progress not baseball on field stuff.

mrmom - thank you so much for sharing your story. Can you tell us when your coach had the discussion with your son about the future of his scholarship - was it at the end of the season, or the beginning, or when? I am glad your son found another place to play, and would like to understand the timeline. I have a son who may face a similar decision. Thanks again.

IHEARTBASEBALL

Sorry it took awhile to get back to you. My son had been injured and the day he was medically cleared they told him to suit up but they'd need to talk to him after the game. they released him on the field after the game.

Mr. Mom -

IM me or email me and let me know where your #1 ended up. I would love to see him play again and am in a real need for a baseball fix.

This is a great thread.I read the post of 04and10 and it sounded just like the situation
my son was in.As a parent and ardent follower of this board,I never really knew what happens
in real life concerning transferring and redshirting.To be honest,I did not even know you
could be redshirted at a junior college!!!It is
incredible how many kids transfer in and out,going from division 1 colleges,including MAJOR baseball schools,to jc and from one jc to another.My son was given the option of redshirting or transferring.It was very difficult decision and we agonized over it for while before deciding on redshirting.We felt it would be tougher to go to a new school,not knowing anyone,rather and staying at the school
where he was familiar with the situation and had friends there.
This semester has been very difficult for all of us(son and parents).It is tough to go to
practices,pitch in intersquads but not play in the actual games.I keep reminding him that he went through something like this in high school as a soph when he was on the jv for the majority of his sop year.He would come home upset after practice because he felt he played better than the kids on the varsity(he actually
was better).We just had to keep his spirits up,
tell him to keep trying hard,his time would come.We are doing the same thing now he is redshirting.I certainly hope that it will work out best for him by redshirting and staying in
the same school.You never know what would have happened if he transferred-only time will tell.

My 04 is at at Blue Ridge CC, got some scholarship money, had a good fall, then was told he would redshirt as he prob would not get alot of innings - RHP

Of course he was a bit upset, but I thought things happen for a reason, and at least the coach was upfront.

1st road trip Coach asked him to come, but told him he probably would not pitch, and he didn't, and he was a bit bummed.

1st home stand, double header, last inning of 2nd game he goes in. 3 k's

Next day he goes in for the 6 & 7th, 1 hit, couple of k's and a few ground balls, no runs.

He got a chance because other guys quit, didn't go to class, or other problems.

He is happy to be apart of the team, but says: Mom, one hanging curve, one missed spot....

He's just a kid that is thrilled to still be playing the game.

Wow, what a great thread! You are discussing what happens very often in the collegiate ranks of baseball. What is sometimes missed is that very often these high school seniors are the best players on their teams going to colleges where everyone was the best player on their teams. The competition is high and experience, age, etc. makes a big difference. My suggestion is that if a player is really looking to play to consider going to a JUCO to start with and get some playing time and then transfer to a four year school later. Fact is that most freshman will not play much their first year at a 4 year school. This can be really hard on some players. And just like what has already been mentioned...really question the coach about who he has coming back at your son's position and how many he plans on recruiting. Just a few thoughts.....

Sometimes you need to learn to roll with the punches!!!!

In the end it is worth it

Very sound advice from TRHIT, sometimes the road can be a bit rocky, however if you stick it out it may just work out for you. College baseball is so different for kids than HS because they get challeneged every day during the regular season and every fall when the new players arrive. In HS they usually know who is coming up behind them , but in college they never know when the next hotshot player may come in and take their postion. It has its ups and downs but for my son it's been a great 4 year journey.

Players come and go for whatever reason. You stay for one.

I think Catfish is right on the money with the transfer issue. You do a lot of praying. Our household believes that everything happens on God's time. If you have read the post I made under - after high school (National Awards) so far, my son's transfer was a great move. He transfered over the Christmas holidays. He decided to leave his previous school the day before everyone left for the holidays! I did'nt think this was the best timing, but everything just fell into place after the decision was made. From the right person in the compliance office being in his office to fax the necessary paper work for a release, all the way to two pitchers at the new school needing a new roommate at the last minute. (And whole bunch of stuff in between!!) He is very happy at his new school both on the mound and off.

#up3dwn,

I'm glad for your good fortune. I hope you're right in your philosophy because from where i sit my son is going through a nightmare and as far as baseball is concerned he's getting Scr%&ed! The worst part is the system allows it (which means they support it) and there's not much you can really do about it!

AAAAAAAAAARRRRGH..... I hear all this I am heavy in heart. My son called me yesterday from his 1st spring break trip. He is upset and confused. Why aren't I playing??? He too is a freshman at a four year school. I could tell the frustration and hurt in his voice.
I tell him it's cool it will all work out. You'll have your time when your time comes. etc etc. etc. etc.
It's hard to hear when all you want is the best for your kid.
I tell him maybe tomorrow. Maybe the next day.
Just hang tough and be prepared.
P.S. You're in AZ. enjoy the weather. It's freezing here in NY!!!!
Sometime they need to sound off to who they can without fear of reprisial.
It is tough for Freshman gamers. That it is!

What you describe here is what is common for many freshman athletes, regardless of the sport.

It is part of the process---

Sirguy, good advice. The step up involved from high school to college is very difficult and often times under estimated. Our sons have been used to starting and often times being the top player and now they playing with men who are 20-22 years old, the game is faster and the mental intensity/focus is much greater. Also very important is that, for the first time, they are playing for a coach who is doing this for his livelihood. One suggestion I would have is to reiterate he will get his chance. The fact he is travelling is evidence of that. He has to be mentally and physically ready when that chance comes and he may not have much notice of his chance. I know from talking to college coaches that is an important factor they look at in their freshman--how do they handle adversity and how do they respond when their chance comes.

Infielddad:

Great thought. (I know from talking to college coaches that is an important factor they look at in their freshman--how do they handle adversity and how do they respond when their chance comes.)I will utse that statement when the young man calls home today. I know they are in the midst of a game as I type this. Hope today is "the day" for his peace of mind.
Handling adversity..I like it !!!!!

TR---> your are right..If I could put this 48 year old head on the 18 year ols shoulder.....how easy raisng pups this would be !!!!

Sirguy,

Try to encourage them "not to press" not to try too hard. Players in this situation, a situation they aren't used too because they've always usually not had to worry about playing --will feel they have to press.

They'll try to hit the homer or make the impossible catch. They feel like "I have to do something to impress the coach.

Tell them instaed to try to make contact, not swing at bad pitches, relax and get the signs, throw strikes not walk batters. often that's what a coach is looking for, if you make consistent contact or throw strikes the rest will take care of itself.

Sirguy, somethings my son taught me that might work for yours.. For practices, be the first one there and the last to leave. Take extra BP and ground balls every chance you get. Play every ball in practice like it was a game situation. If you have the chance, show versatility to play different positions in practice and during infield/outfield. He used that approach when he was a late addition in a summer wood bat league and got to play a position he had not played in his life. Got a start, went 3-4 and played 3rd the rest of the season earning an All Star berth. By doing that, when the call comes in the game, you are doing things you are used to, not things you need to think about. Also coaches love the extra parts and they definitely know who is and who is not. My son also attended a DIII. Called this morning from his second day of his first Spring training where he is again using this approach. Volunteered to play every position except first and pitch. Being the hardest worker with the most versatility will get your son noticed.

This is a great thread. It is nice to hear so much advice and know your son is not the only one not playing as a freshman. Our son is currently on a D-I team and not playing. The decision has not been made whether he will redshirt or not yet. It has been tough on him not playing, but we have been encouraging to keep at it. Work extra hard, take extra BP and above all keep mentally focused. I do beleive it is in god's hands. He is at least traveling with team and loving it. He could have probably played had he chosen a D-III school, but he is at the school he loves. Hopefully it will all work out for the best. We just try to be really supportive. I know parents who begin bad mouthing coaches when their son doesn't play but I think that just messes them up mentally.
Attitude is everything.

Infielddad - Good luck to your son - hope has an excellent spring training and an awesome season!

Thanks URKMB. I am sure everything will turn out fine???????? This all seems pretty surreal. More than just about anything he wanted to attend and play at a college you know very well. When that did not work, he got lucky and a college coach found him who believed in him. After 5 years, that coach is still a source of encouragement and inspriration for him. The last discussion before he got on the plane to Fla.ended with the coach telling him to make sure you wake up every morning at Spring Training and tell yourself "you belong here" and "you can play here." Shows how different we are, I am just happy to "wake up."

These posts have all been very helpful. I have a son at a D2 who is in a similar situation. He was heavily recruited locally by several small D1's a couple of D2's and all of the JC's. He chose a D2 because of what he heard from players about some of the other coaches (as it turns out I now believe it is a college baseball coaches requirement to have anger management issues, learn to motivate, you can get a lot more out of someone!!!!!) and because of the chance to play immediately. He was given a very good scholy, but he now finds himself not even getting a chance. He had a decent fall, with the some things to work on and the impression from the Caoch he would be playing every day. Boy have things changes since Nov., after reading some of the threads I can't help but wonder if they are pushing him to go because of the high scholy amount? He has spoken with the coach as well as I have. He has assured us that this is not the case. But I still wonder? Another meeting is planned. What type of time frame should be used if a transfer is in the mix? When to ask for a release? Any advice would be appreciated.

Sports

A you as a parent entering into does not help the situation---in many cases this will only make matters worse

In speaking with my son yesterday, he got in a game and faced one batter. Got the kid out and that was it. Four games after that and no playing. The coach spoke with him, and it seems that he is not well received by his teammates (my opinion from the conversation). He refused to be "hazed" by the seniors. There seems to be a lot of "freshman do this, freshman do that , carry my bags, freshman sleep on the floor...etc. He just refuses to do it.
I suggested that since it's a team sport he should just "play the game" as long as its nothing stupid, dangerous or immoral.
What do you all think?

"Hazing" of frosh, if you choose to call it that, is not uncommon-- the freshman are the bottom feeders in HS and College --carrying equipment bags, cleaning the dugouts, raking the field etc is all part of being the "newbie" on the team.

If a player does not get with the program he can very easily find himself on the "outside looking in" .

I agree with TRHit regarding the "hazing" or "paying your freshman dues". However, I find it strange that he's not playing because he's "not received well by his teammates". While it's not a desireable situation (with respect to teammates) I have rarely seen coaches make playing decisions based on something like this. My gut says there's another reason he's not playing more. Otherwise, why give him a chance to face even one batter? Obviously, we can all site examples where starting players are not the best teammates but they still play. In the end, most coaches make playing decisions based on their "ability to contribute" rather than "how well they get along with their teammates".