TravelBall / Showcase teams, but at what cost?

Good post.

Keep in mind one major factor: personal websites, pictures, promos, videos, you tube etc are all great but the college coach needs and wants to see the prospect in action and against top flight competition.

My son sent out an e-mail with his youtube to anyone and everyone who would watch it. Got a lot of interest from some big D1 schools , but without seeing him play thats were it ended. played 2 months this summer with a showcase team and signed early with a D2. Wish we could have done more but did'nt have the cash, showcase teams are were its at but without the cash I don't know what advice you can give paople.

Another suggestion, get names/contact info of reliable baseball individuals who can verify the information you are sending about your son.

I am considering renting a blimp. Will that help?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
Another suggestion, get names/contact info of reliable baseball individuals who can verify the information you are sending about your son.

One of the most overlooked and underestimated piece of information for a parent trying to "help" a player. Make absolutely sure you get credible references! GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by GunEmDown10:

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
Another suggestion, get names/contact info of reliable baseball individuals who can verify the information you are sending about your son.

One of the most overlooked and underestimated piece of information for a parent trying to "help" a player. Make absolutely sure you get credible references! GED10DaD

Amen! I almost left that out, that's why I posted that above.

Let me say that I believe college recruiters want to see your son play in person and play good competition. Recruiters can't get a true feel for a player from a video shoot. (Too many variables)

I never went around looking for ways to spend extra money, shoot I didnt want to spend any money if I didnt need to. I knew my son was better than average, but waited for the experts to tell me differently. Thats when things changed a bit.
My son was "found" at a MLB scouting bureau tryout when he was 16. Guess what the cost of that was? FREE!!!
If you utilize these free tryout camps and you do well word will travel. AND FAST! Plenty of people in the know at those tryouts. My son was invited to play on a scout team that fall from that FREE scouting bureau tryout and went to the WWBA in Jupiter, things were never the same again.

The thing I think people should remember, there are all kinds of organizations out there that will take your money in the name of getting your son recruited. You, the parent, need to have your son go to some free events and LISTEN to the professionals. The pro scouts and college recruiters do this stuff for a living. If they arent talking to your son or you that should be telling you something.

Remember, LSU, Texas, Virginia aren't going to come to you and tell you they're not recruiting you. If there is interest, that should help guide you as to how much money you want to spend.

Just my experienced opinion.

I am a high school baseball coach, not a travel ball coach, and even I believe that my elite players NEED to play travel ball. Baseball is going the way of softball and basketball. Instead of going to colleges coaches are going to big travel ball tournaments. Will you get interest if you You Tube your kid, you could. However the bottom line is they are still going to want to see you play and the best time to see you is with your travel ball team, because high school baseball season is the same time as college baseball season. I will say you do need to be careful. Obviously in Southern California there are a billion travel ball teams. You need to do your homework and make your choice wisely because so travel ball coaches do no work in getting you kids name out and other over charge. On the flip side you got a guy like SGV Arsenal who makes no financial gain off of travel ball and nearly all of not all of his player sign every year. Is it because he has talent, yes. It is also because he works his backside off and makes sure he gets, smart, and good kids.

quote:

Originally posted by D1:
Let me say that I believe college recruiters want to see your son play in person and play good competition. Recruiters can't get a true feel for a player from a video shoot. (Too many variables)

I never went around looking for ways to spend extra money, shoot I didnt want to spend any money if I didnt need to. I knew my son was better than average, but waited for the experts to tell me differently. Thats when things changed a bit.
My son was "found" at a MLB scouting bureau tryout when he was 16. Guess what the cost of that was? FREE!!!
If you utilize these free tryout camps and you do well word will travel. AND FAST! Plenty of people in the know at those tryouts. My son was invited to play on a scout team that fall from that FREE scouting bureau tryout and went to the WWBA in Jupiter, things were never the same again.

The thing I think people should remember, there are all kinds of organizations out there that will take your money in the name of getting your son recruited. You, the parent, need to have your son go to some free events and LISTEN to the professionals. The pro scouts and college recruiters do this stuff for a living. If they arent talking to your son or you that should be telling you something.

Remember, LSU, Texas, Virginia aren't going to come to you and tell you they're not recruiting you. If there is interest, that should help guide you as to how much money you want to spend.

Just my experienced opinion.

For the record, playing baseball on any team is playing baseball. My suggestion is to assist a young man getting his name out there and then you'll have an idea of whom is interested.

College coaches should be up front and say, that we are not interested and players should do the same and so the respect and communicate to a coach, we appreicate your interest but we are not interested.

This will save the college coaches a lot of valuable time if the players are up front, just the same if the college coaches communicate the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

For the record, playing baseball on any team is playing baseball. My suggestion is to assist a young man getting his name out there and then you'll have an idea of whom is interested.

College coaches should be up front and say, that we are not interested and players should do the same and so the respect and communicate to a coach, we appreicate your interest but we are not interested.

This will save the college coaches a lot of valuable time if the players are up front, just the same if the college coaches communicate the same way.

Where we are from our Legion programs are considered weak, so this is where I will disagree with you. When my son played for that scout team that fall he played against some of the better competition he ever played against up to that point. Jupiter was unlike anything I had ever seen, until the next year he was there. Unless you have been there you cannot even imagine the amount of college recruiters and pro scouts there and that is probably an understatement.

Coach, I think you may have mistook my staement about the colleges not telling you they are interested. If LSU, Texas and Virginia are at an event that your son is playing in and at his game they dont have to tell every parent there that they have no interest. You will know who they are there to see. The coaches will be talking to the kids and parents they are interested in. Junior also had schools that were interested at one point and then like a light switch had no interest. They never called to tell us that interest fell off. I just thought that went along with the territory, no harm no foul.

My son went to a couple of weekend college camps last fall. Had he been playing Legion ball he would have been one of sixty quality players. His Legion coach doesn't know anyone. As a travel player a phone call from a MLB scout who helps coach his travel team preceeded the visit. The coaches knew who my son was and approached him for a conversation. Part of the conversation was, "Your coach speaks highly of you."

I won't say a kid has to play travel. But being on the right travel team with contacts sure helps.

I'm not saying the local Legion program is bad, but when my son was fifteen on a 16U team full of 15yos, the Legion made every excuse possible not to play them. They would have smoked the Legion team.

As far as preteen travel, I can't see spending a lot of money. After spring rec ball my son played for a community based summer travel team sponsored by the town when he was nine and ten. I paid $100. It was the equivilant of a LL all-star team. When he was eleven and twelve his LL all-star team played into August. The run was fun!

In response to this question from an HSBBweb Old Timer poster/administrator ...

"May I ask you what your problem is with travel/showcase teams?"

I am just trying to inform the players and parents of the options out there to assist them in gaining exposure at the most affordable avenue.

How can that be viewed as having a problem with travel/showcase teams?

socalhscoach, Thank you for the compliment. All of our coaches work hard at what we do. We enjoy the whole process. My wife wishes I would make a little money. I have been paid so handsomely in so many other ways. I will share one story. I bought a home last May and was dreading the move. I asked a few of guys if they could help move some things. I was so floored when about 35 or more players and parents showed up to help. There was a huge flat bed truck, a big u-haul type truck. They moved our family in a few hours from one home to the next. My wife was nearly in tears. They parents said it was there way of saying thanks.

I am proud of how all my coaches strive to see our players succeed. Coaches have asked me how we have developed into a top program. It is quality kids who come from quality families and the player happens to be outstanding at baseball. We have kinda have an unwritten formula I listed below. Within each one there is whole lot to cover.

1. Select good student athletes and good families.
2. Develop relationships with each player.
3. Help guide them to academic and athletic success.
4. Teach them to respect all aspects of the game
5. Teach them to compete with teammates and opponents
6. Be honest to each player and family.
7. Spend money wisely.

SGV ... I'm on the other side of the continental divide but would love to have had my son play for you or socalcoach!! Thanks for doing it the right way and for making a huge difference in those ballplayers lives....

Milburn

To me the tone of your posts indicates that you have a problem with that scenario

People come to this site for advice and to get informed about recruiting
Coach Milburn is giving advice to parents that don't have 10K-12K a year
to pay for a showcase team can't see how anybody could have a problem
with that .

Prime9, thanks. I have been to Georgia and thought it was a wonderful place.

I would be real reluctant to ask parents on our program to spend 10-12k a year. I am going to have ask our parents how much they spent over the past couple years. Let me think with my senior class.

Class of 2010:

As freshman played local league, Scout day, three tournaments in the winter $350 and summer Mantle and 2 tournaments $350. total $700.

As sophomores Fall played local league, scout day, three tournaments $400.00. Summer at JO's, Mantle league and two tournaments Fee was $500. Hotel, travel and food around $1200. Total $2100.00

As Jrs. Fall played at various colleges, Az. Jr Fall Classic, Scout day, $500. Two went to Jupitor extra $200. fee and hotel, travel and food $1200. The trip was huge for one kid. Blew up there. Will be first round pick this year. Summer Connie Mack and colleges sites. $250.00 Total $750..

Senior
Fall $100 fee. Didn't see to many as the were committed. Jupitor $225 fee and about $1200 for those who went.

Summer season will Connie Mack. $250.00.

This is just with our program. I could missing a few extra costs. Players did attend some college camps, PG showcases such at Cal Underclass, Sunshine West and National showcase. Some went to the tournament of stars which is no cost. There are scouting showcases run by the scouting association here in SoCal. We would set up games with other top teams and notify colleges and scouts so they could attend which is cheaper than paying $700 for a tournament.

19 players committed with 17 of them to D1. We have 5 players uncommitted. Two will go D1(one might go for football) and three others most likely D2 or NAIA. We are working it for them.

Parents need to do their work on researching programs to see if it fits their needs. Look at everything a program offers. Ask others who have gone through programs for their opinion. You have to get it right the first time because there are no do overs. Find a program, stick to it and work hard to get better. Regardless of which program you play in your still have to be good enough to collleges and scouts to warrant attention. It was what colleges/scouts feel is good enough not what parents think is good enough.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Milburn

To me the tone of your posts indicates that you have a problem with that scenario

Sorry that you feel that way TRhit. What device are you using to hear the tone affect of these posts?

quote:

Originally posted by DoverDAD:
People come to this site for advice and to get informed about recruiting
Coach Milburn is giving advice to parents that don't have 10K-12K a year
to pay for a showcase team can't see how anybody could have a problem
with that .

Glad that you understand DoverDAD.

First I need to for SGV baseball.

You run a great program at a reasonable cost for your kids. You are special.

Coach Milburn you are doing a great service to many here so I applaud you. You can be be seen and do a credible job without spending a ton of money. My son was asked to play on a very high profile national team and I could not justify the cost and time, so we more or less did this on our own with a LOT of help from the folks here at HSBBW.

I am confident, baring serious injury, my son will play college ball somewhere. We could have done this for less, but he would have fewer choices. We could have spent A LOT more and he would probably have more choices. This is what it boils down to IMO, the more you spend the more choices you have. With a little planning a decent player can generate enough interest for about $3K per year for two years. I also don't consider these "costs" since we had a lot of fun at these events and made side trips and they became our vacations.

This is a quick run down of what our costs (and projected) will be for my son.

Rising Freshman: Played on Varsity summer squad

Rising Soph: Summer ball with HS

Rising Jr

USA Baseball tournament: $125 plus travel ~ $1,200

Area Code Tryouts: ~ $0

WWB Tucson: $250 plus travel: ~ $700

Cal Collegiate League ~$0

Arizona Fall Jr Classic: $125 plus travel ~ $700

Fall Scout team plus travel ~$500

Perfect Game Combine ~$500

Rising Sr (planned)

Stanford Camp incl travel ~$1,600

Connie Mac ~$250

Cal Collegiate League ~$0

Area Code ~$0

WWB Tucson ~$700

Arizona Fall Classic ~$700

Scout ball ~$500

Ok Coaches and sounds like great ones at that! I have taken my son to a few of those . PG's ,Area Code, AZ Fall Classics and yes the Area Code got him a scholarship. My question I have for a quality Ranked AZ player Class of 2010 is, Where to showcase him now that he has committed to play college ball. Still has his Senior year,is 18 and turning 19 in Sept. Where is the next place to showcase other than his Summer Scout Team? And that Team doesn't go to Jupiter or East Cobb. Would he even qualify age wise for those or other Tourneys? Thanks

You can check with the college coach to see if he has contacts for summer collegiate league that he can put him in, or you can find a Connie Mack team, or a team which goes to PG East Cobb for 2010's.

Showcases itself are not needed unless he hopes to get drafted, but the draft is in June, not much happening except some all star events if you have them.

Really the key is playing quality games and getting AB's if he is a hitter and getting into shape.

1. My son received a very good D-1 scholarship so what I did was right.
2. My son was drafted out of high school so again, what I did was right.
3. He didn't go to one single Perfect Game event so PG isn't necessary.
4. He played for a very good summer team so a very good summer team is a plus.
5. He was invited to Area Code tryouts but didn't go. (so Area Code isn't necessary)
6. He was invited to go straight to Area Code WITHOUT going to tryouts but didn't go (so again that's not necessary)

While I am truthful Im also being facetious ---- The main point I'm trying to made is it's human nature to validate or defend what we do. That goes for parents, showcase promoters, summer coaches, recruiting services .... the list goes on and on. Everyone wants (and some need) to take credit for a player's success. One recruiting service tried to get me to pay a lot of money to "promote" my son. I declined. The price kept dropping until it went to zero (free). It was free because my son and his imminent success would validate his company. Even the person that gave my son a plastic bat and ball for Christmas when he was 2 years old has even taken some credit for his success.

Is exposure necessary? Sure it is but exposure is virtually omnipresent. The only downside to exposure, or the more common overexposure, is the cost. I say use some common sense when it comes to knowing what it takes to be recruited. Some players can do virtually nothing but play baseball and be heavily recruited while another can spend a fortune and get virtually nothing in return. With the economy in the shape it's it I think more people are going to be forced to realize that talent, not money, is the key to getting a spot on a college roster.
Fungo

When my guy(s) came out there were few showcase events happening but all three went to college to play college ball and did well

BUT

Times have changed tremendously and though it may a bit expensive it has changed for the better --WHY???--very simple--the exposure kids get today is way superior to 15 years ago, even 10 years ago

To me for our team and players it is not about rankings and ratings---it is all about exposure ---exposure to the right coaches and scouts--exposure to the schools that you have interest in---in todays recruiting climate it is rare to see a college coach at a HS game unless he is there to see a specific player---they will be where the maximum players are performing--why not? --their budgets are limited so why not be where the most talent will be on ONE stage

The same goes for travel teams--they will go to tournaments where the maximum exposure can be gotten-- why go to a tournament with 10 college scouts when on the same weekend you can be at an event with 50 college scouts---trust me the entry fee will be pretty much the same amount --- in our region the fees are in the $ 1000 range for any event you select

As in life in general it is all about choices--and you need to make the right one--I am not saying it cannot happen for you without showcases and tournaments but the odds are stacked against you.

In addition, and this is key, the player needs to let his schools of interest know where he will be and when---get them your schedule..

To answer the question--the cost is up to you!!!!

Parents and players need to understand just because you spend more money does not guarantee you anything but less money in the bank.

In the end, the real question is this ... Can you play the game of baseball and at what level?

With today's technology available, everyone needs to take advantage of it.

To close, if anyone wants to see my letter's of ref since I have started obtaining such since 2000, I will be very happy to give anyone more background information on me which will support that I know what I am talking about.

Am I in the business of making money off baseball? No, but I do get the reward of helping another player whom I have seen and sometimes NEVER seen.

I do my best to keep my college distribution list of coaches informed of kids who are in the market to play college baseball.

Folks, BASEBALL is suppose to be FUN and not a business at least for 18U in my own honest opinion.

Respectfully shared,
Coach Milburn
Winchester, VA

Coach Milburn.

Excellent post! Spending $$$$$$$$$'s (because you can) in an effort to achieve a goal is not always wise.

Can't go wrong having well thought out options.

Coaches, Great advise! So, I guess the only Showcase left for son is the East Cobb PG. Other than his All Star events after Senior Yr should he repeat last years stats. Either of you Coaches need or could use an outfielder or know of a Quality Team needing a player?. I know some of you frown when sites are posted of a player. But, son understands the risks and is ok with it. It does make it easy for people to see. It is as complete as a site can be for a player and for a Coach to evaluate him as a person and a player. http://hunterzwart.com/ Thanks

Who was the guy exposed behind the pitching screen?

He's lucky to still be living, for the love of GOD, stay behind the screen.

This NSCA Scouting Report, com'on folks, you can do this yourself. How much did this cost?

I am the lucky one that lived through that! Yes, I got the NCSA before I found reality. But it did serve as a knowlege base and a good refrence for us. This site is definately more useful! At 50 you arn't as loose as you were. I still have nightmares about that. No more pitching for me! But son still needs a East Cobb team. Don't let my recklessness take you away from his opportunities. I promise to be good. lol thanks

Milburn

Are you old enough to have sons at the recruiting stage?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Milburn

Are you old enough to have sons at the recruiting stage?

What is the appropriate age TRhit?

There is a perception Sir, that you do not like it when others come on here to help educate the parents and players with a different perspective.

A question for you, do you operate a business where you make money off baseball?

There is no correct path for every player. You can just never know at what point a college guy can see you or how it will happen. Each program has a different plan on what to do. This is why parents need to research things. My 18/2010 team gets invited to many events out of state. I just can not justify asking them to spend a large amount of money to travel right after they graduated. We are fortunate to play in a strong Connie Mack league so they get the work and compete with a full summer schedule. We are going to Utah to this summer because it was too good an opportunity to pass up.

Fungo, you made great points. I see parents take their kids to every showcase, tournament and camp possible. Nothing will happen for this kid because he is just not good enough.

I firmly believe you need play and work at this game with passion. If you are good enough and the right people see you it will happen for you.

TRhit, you guys play a lot of tournaments over the summer which is in contrast to us. We might play in one tournament over the summer and only two in the Fall. Different schedules but they work for each team.

BOF, thank you. I appreciate the praise. A nice pat on the back always feels good.

As a HS coach and associate pro scout, I always tell my kids that if they can play, they will be seen.

I would rather see a kid spend the money and get proper instruction, rather than spend all the money on the travel teams. Just my opinion.

I always hear about young kids (10-14) playing 70-80 games, but in playing those games are they really getting better? Some might, but a lot I see do not. They just keep making the same mistakes that will hurt later on if not corrected.

Am I against the travel teams, no, not necessarily, but I just feel proper instruction and reps are better served especially during those years where the instruction is really needed.

Once in HS and after the proper skills are ingrained, then focus more on the games aspect.

quote:

Parents and players need to understand just because you spend more money does not guarantee you anything but less money in the bank.

You can't purchase talent. You can purchase exposure and along with talent, quality references and access to college programs. A less than drop dead talent isn't going to get exposure out of his region without quality help.

milburn

I would send you a PM/email and explain fully my thinking but since you like to take emails and PM's and throw them up on a public forum you can forget that---thus no need to go further with you here

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
milburn

I would send you a PM/email and explain fully my thinking but since you like to take emails and PM's and throw them up on a public forum you can forget that---thus no need to go further with you here

Sorry, but I'm about trying to be transparent as possible. Nobody has to explain their position to me. If that is the way you want to operate and that is your choice.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Parents and players need to understand just because you spend more money does not guarantee you anything but less money in the bank.

You can't purchase talent. You can purchase exposure and along with talent, quality references and access to college programs. A less than drop dead talent isn't going to get exposure out of his region without quality help.

There's some truth to that.

quote:

Am I against the travel teams, no, not necessarily, but I just feel proper instruction and reps are better served especially during those years where the instruction is really needed.

CC05 .... you make a good point that I totally agree with! Many Parents rush their children too quickly into "Travel Teams" thinking that alone is the formula for their son to make the H.S. Team and then play in College. I live in the Travel Team "mecca" of East Cobb. My son was recruited from Summer Travel exposure and local showcases. Having said that, no amount of "exposure" matters if the player doesn't have the skills so that "he will stand out." Furthermore, my player didn't learn "mechancis" from any Travel or H.S. Coach. Not that there aren't coaches who do spend alot of time on teaching specific skills. It's just been my experience, that they are too busy playing games (Travel teams) and it's easier to obtain, or bring up another player (H.School) that already has desired the skill sets. So, if you haven't played the game and or can't teach, and you son wants to play beyond Rec ball, you might spend some $ on good lessons (hitting & Pitching primarily, the advanced skills).

I just wanted to thank everyone who has responded and shared their opinions that has allowed others to become more informed.

HSBBWeb is a great resourceful for valuable information to be shared with all.

This is some interesting stuff. As a father of a boy that is getting close to the age where I have to make these decisions I like to hear more than one side of the coin.

I am torn over a lot of this. He is on a select team that is playing PONY ball during the season and doing some short travel tourneys from Seattle to Portland over the summertime. Since he is in a 14U level team (my son is 12) it is thought that travel beyond a couple of hours probably wouldn't do him any good, especially since there are some quality tourneys in the Seattle and Portland areas.

When he is older there is talk of the team striking out toward California and we will have to make that decision then.

To be honest, I am not too awfully worried about showcase or even summer ball as a high schooler. I figure that if Daniel is good enough in high school to be noticed all of that stuff will work itself out in the end. I might change my mind as he gets older.

quote:

I figure that if ******* is good enough in high school to be noticed all of that stuff will work itself out in the end.

You can't count on it unless he's an absolute stud. In a major metro area there will be a lot of college prospects. After the absolute studs, talent-wise many of them look alike. You don't want your son to get outworked and overlooked in the recruiting process. Also if you're going to match academic ability with baseball talent it may limit your local options.

I tend to side more with the view of SGV and TRHit, but then, I too run a ccllege development baseball program, so I have a bias in my views. Where I think that Coach Milburn is somewhat over-simplifying things is that most people have no idea how much communication goes on behind the scenes at top level programs with college coaches regarding their players. The fact is, the top development clubs are watched closely by many college coaches and if you've built a repore and reputation with college coaches over time, it will greatly benefit any player in your program who has the skills necessary to play at the collegiate level. As an example, our team was watched by approximately 30 different coaches over 3 days at the Jr. Fall Classic. Would you have wanted your son on the field at that showcase tournament? Getting noticed is what is important, and to get noticed, you have to play on a team that people want to scout. Players do not get recruited sight unseen. They have to be seen playing against good competition, and not every team can provide that for an aspiring player.

As for cost, it varies wildly from program to program, and from what I understand we're at the lower end of the spectrum. That said, this kind of baseball is still very expensive. Most of that expense is eaten up in air or ground travel, hotel expenses, restaurants, and other things like showcase entry fees and such. I imagine that many of the families who have young men playing in our program spend $3,000+ per summer, with approximately 2/3 or more of that on travel related costs. On the other hand, about 10-12 of our players annually end up with college baseball opportunities, so some of the parents think it is worth the expense, and the memories they get to build with their sons along the way are important too.

In closing, I'll say that today was a nice day. I was looking through Baseball America's D1 pre-season top 25, with projected starting lineups posted. I was gratified to find four of the young men who used to play on our teams in those lineups. Three of them are freshmen.

06

Isnt the progress of these young men what it is all about--Just got word yesterday that one of our players got his first Law school acceptance--and another is in Med school

06catcherdad, you nailed it right on the head. Most people do not know what goes behind the scenes. I tell people what you see on the field is just a part of what goes on in our program. It is about a program have a positive reputation about having quality guys and colleges knowing they can get the information they need. The relationships that a program has with colleges is huge. We feel fortunate to have developed so many from across the country.

TRhit you are right! Help them become along, make them great players and even better young men.

My observation, and also something I was told by a Pirates scout, has been that probably the best exposure a player can get is the big WWBA tournaments. If being on TR's team or SGV's team or going to a PG showcase gets you an opportunity to play in one of these then it was most likely more than worth it.

Great post. What some fail to realize is there is so much more to being a part of a great summer / fall baseball program. Its not just about exposure to college coaches. Its not just about getting some opportunities for the next level. Of course that is part of it. And of course if you play on a team with a good reputation your going to get some great exposure. But there is much much more to it.

For these players its the first time as a high school aged player that they are in the dugout with 20 plus other guys with the same goals , aspirations , work ethic , talent and make up as they have. It gives these players an opportunity to learn and grow as players and young men. They take their game to an even higher level by playing with and against players of their same ability. They take bp in front of 40-50 college coaches. They throw a pen with the same amount of coaches paying attention to every detail. They play in front of college coaches on a routine basis and professional scouts. They learn from each other and they feed off of each other. Its an environment that is totally different than any other environment they have been around in the game.

Our goal is to not only get players exposure to college coaches and assist them in finding a good fit. Its also about preparing them for the next level before they get there. Its about teaching them what they can expect and what they will need to do in order to be successful at the next level. I remember a particular player that was a pitcher in our program. He would get up at 5am and hit the gym at the motel. Then swim in the pool. Then run. His work ethic was tremendous. His focus was tremendous. He was not the most talented pitcher on our staff even though he signed with UNC Wilmington. But before you knew it all the pitchers were following his lead. Even took on his diet which was a very healthy one. The same things happened with hitters. None of these players want to be outworked.

You might think your working hard because your outworking everyone on your hs team. But then you get around these type of players and you find that your really not working that hard. So you learn. You learn from the guys around you. And when your in an environment where everyone is extremely competitive , extremely talented and driven to excell you either step up your game or you step aside.

There is way more to this stuff than some people think or believe. My job is to select the players that have the ability and make up to play at the next level. And then teach them what it will take to survive and be successful at the next level. Folks its alot easier to get there than it is to stay there. I too saw many players on those rosters that we have coached over the years. Many more are not listed as starters but will be contributors. It is very rewarding that is for sure. Getting seen and getting exposure is just one part of the equation. Theres alot more to it than that.

Folks if you a are top-notch player, then others will talk about YOU.

Think about this, the showcase teams, sure they are filled with some of the best of the best, why would they not go onto college and obtain a scholarship in most cases?

Bottom-line, in my opinion, If you are a top-notch player, you will be noticed as the choice is for you and your family to make do you need to pay to join a travel/showcase team and how much money do you need to spend?

My son plays for a top CDP here in Norcal. The opportunities he has received to COMPETE against the best players has been invaluable. It's all about playing against the best. As Coach May says, it brings out a whole new level of play.

Coach

Me to you and no disrespect intended--I am glad you are not involved with my son or my players---your thinking does not work in todays recruiting world

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Coach

Me to you and no disrespect intended--I am glad you are not involved with my son or my players---your thinking does not work in todays recruiting world

TRhit, YOU do not know me and have NO background on me, so your comment has no merit.

My college contact list and the kids I have helped, speaks for itself. I help kids with for no monetary return!

What's the ol' saying, "The love of money is the root of all evils"

Coach

Don't you recall the email you sent me with your self gratifying info ??

How do you know I have no BACKGROUND on you??

Coach,
I would like to thank you for starting this thread and for providing an opportunity to discuss the issue.
Since my son is done playing, I don't have any personal stake in the the issue.
Even so, I feel your postings have created a discussion of the issue that is second to none for parents and players of the recruiting age.
Here are some things I view as relevant:
1.) Travel baseball is a fact, it is here, it is not going away, and it opens some opportunities for some players.
2.) Programs like that of catchersdad06 and I would bet Coach May involve the very top echelon of players. They don't involve guys like my son. They don't involve most players.
3.) The recruiting process for guys like my son and most players can, and often is, very different than what those with the top travel team experience.
4.) Parents and players need to be able to appreciate and accept and differentiate that not all travel programs and coaches are like those offered by catchersdad06, Coach May, TR, and here in the Bay Area, NorCal. The quality of the player, coaching, exposure, and opportunity created by a top national travel programs can be quite different than what is available for players like our son. The recruiting process/access to college coaches, etc for the vast number of players is different, also.
5.) With that said, if travel programs are going to post the NLI's and take credit of the type described at various places in this thread, then I think they also need to acknowledge the fact that a significant number of players are either not succeeding in, or are leaving, the programs in which they are placed.
6.) On this site and on another message board, there are threads about the large number of DI players transferring out of their DI to JC and DII programs. On our Nor Cal message board, one thread says upwards of 19 DI players transferred this year to one DII program. I believe that is a number that should cause concern as to why. Is it connected to the way college recruiting exists now with travel baseball and if so, in what way?.
I would sure like more information as to the relationship, if any, of the travel/showcase travel/showcase process to a recruiting results where there are lots of publicized NLI's but, seemingly a large number of "failures" within 1-2 years, which don't get any publicity.
I am not saying there is a relationship. I am proposing such a relationship is worthy of consideration and study.
7.) Lastly, as you have proposed, I personally believe there are many players who can get recruited, not necessarily at DI programs, but at top schools where they will be coached by top baseball people, by attending college camps such as the Stanford Camp, but not only that camp.
As an illustration, the high school our son attended is quite small. Most athletes play multiple sports so they can have a sports programs. Since 2004, 5 graduates of that high school have been drafted, 3 received baseball scholarships to Stanford, others played at high quality DI programs, still others attended high quality DIII's with at least one playing in the DIII CWS championship game for JHU. All of them played multiple sports in HS and, to my knowledge, not one of those guys played high level travel baseball.
There are other ways.
It is a bit ironic but in 2006, our son had the great experience to play on the same Milb team with Fungo's son. Their recruiting process out of high school could not have been more opposite.
Their playing levels in college could not have been more opposite.
By 2006, as teammates, they had a profound respect for each other.
Their is one common aspect to their very different journeys.
Fungo identified it.
It was not showcasing and/or travel baseball.

For ALL of those who might have doubt about me,

here is a some testimonials from others :

https://docs.google.com/filevi...ljY2E5ZjQ1YTVh&hl=en

I have many other letters of references but this document above should eliminate the doubters.

Milburn


I would respond with a PM/email but since your seem to like to take those sort of private communications and throw them into a public forum I won't--

Have a nice day

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Coach

Don't you recall the email you sent me with your self gratifying info ??

How do you know I have no BACKGROUND on you??

WHY do you have such a problem with I am trying to do in helping kids and families in getting onto the next level with the least amount "out-of-pocket" expense invested? WHY???? Are you continuing to challenge and discredit me TRhit? WHY?????

For the record, I have never said anything negative toward your showcase team ... BUT you continue to give me a difficult time and want to make remarks to discredit me.

Will you please STOP as you are digging yourself a hole that is getting deeper and deeper as you just might not come out of it.

So please quit trying to insult me and entice me into a negative dialog with your comments.

Will you PLEASE stop it already!

Coach Milburn,
I think it is very unfortunate that TR has suggested that you are not providing good discussion for "today's recruiting world"
It appears that just by asking the question, at least one with a vested interest, is trying to undermine the ability to raise the issue and ask the questions.
Thank you for persisting in asking the question.

in looking at a few travel team websites. i notice names of players that have gone on to play in college.

a few i know only played one season, yet they are credited with the player moving on. one i know has moved on to the next level because of his ability, not because of the one season.

is this the norm?

Great post infielddad

I help many young men every year. I dont take a dime. I get paid to coach in the summer and fall. That pay covers my expenses only. Travel cost , motel and food. I do it because I want to help young men. Many do it for the exact same reasons.

I have helped many young men that do not play for me. Many I have never met until I get the phone call or email. Many I have seen play and I make the contact for them.

And many of them are not D1 players or players people would consider "studs." They are all good baseball players who love the game and play it the right way and want an opportunity to play at the next level. For some that means getting them on a team that will be seen by the coaches they need to be seen by. For some its a showcase or a camp. For others its a simple phone call to a coach that I have known for years who knows if I recommend a kid its money in the bank.

There is not one way for every kid. Showcase / Travel baseball is not the right path for everyone. It is the right path for some. Yes if your very talented someone will offer you. But its about creating as many options as possible so you can make a better decision. And for some its about getting an opportunity somewhere period.

Showcase baseball is just one venue , its just one way of many. Its not the only way and its not the right decision for everyone. Inform yourself and make the best decision you can.

Coach May,
Your post should be required reading for every high school player and the parent of every high school player who hopes to play college baseball.

This entire discussion can be traced back to a thread from a few weeks ago. "If you are good enough they will find you." Well, if you are good enough you need to allow yourself to be found.

These days there are many different outlets in which a person can gain exposure in order to achieve playing at the next level. When I was in high school, I didn't attend a single showcase. I was about 5'10", left-handed and didn't throw too hard. To me, I wasn't a "showcase player", the type that opens eyes at a particular event which could result in collegiate/professional attention. So I went with a travel team in my area which turned out to be a blessing. I got the exposure I needed and faced the best competition I could have (as previously noted, Jupiter is one heck of an event), and moved on to college baseball.

Do what is right for YOU. Not what you see others doing. There are many ways to get seen, just make sure it's for the right reasons.

jh

don't sell yourself short, my son is a 5'10'' lefty wasn't a showcase player either. but he did ok in the game.

the only limitation is between the ears.keep at it you''ll do ok.

infielddad,
Good point about the college camps. If you target them correctly they can be very useful in the recruiting process if you have the talent and perform well.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
milburn

You know what is scary?--a poster putting up a link to testimonials---anyone can get them--it is like references--you ever see a job reference that spoke bad of the applicant? I have not and I have seen a load of job applications

Funny how you glided over my statement about the self gratifying email you sent me--little things stick in this old mans mind


Have a nice day

Bottom-line "TRhit", you are making money off this gig and I am not, so that is the major difference between you and I.

The "testimonials" went up because YOU want to try discredit me for some reason.

I for one have never stated anything negative toward you or about your program, but you had made this a personal issue and for that, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Coach,

I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.

That's OK, but it appears you are very much an American Legion guy. I was too, many years ago. IMO, I think that is the main reason you have brought up the subject. And if it is, that's perfectly OK. I love Legion baseball, too.

Whenever I see posts that are written based on just wanting to help people save their money, I find it odd. Do you really care what people spend or where they spend it? I really like this site and the people involved. Yet, not once have I ever been concerned with how anyone here spends their money other than they should donate some to this site. Are there really people who post here that care how I spend my money? Does anyone care how much I spent on my kids when they were young? If so... The answer is very little because I didn't have much to spend.

I would much rather discuss the positives and negatives about Legion Baseball and/or travel baseball without worrying about how much money someone is spending. Obviously cost would then be an item for discussion. Then we could all chime in on the best way to get to the next level and any costs associated with that. Then rather than receiving an education, it would feel more like an open discussion.

The way I see it is like this... A Legion person is educating us on how to spend the least amount of money getting to the next level. I would be willing to bet that nearly everyone here already knows that playing Legion Ball is less expensive than playing Travel Baseball. I know you didn't exactly say that, but it's obvious which side you would be on. One thing to debate is which one is most likely to produce the best results. Which has the best competition and which has the most MLB scouts and college coaches in attendance? Then there are many other differences to debate, as well.

So the only thing I see wrong about all of this, if anything, is the fact that you mention wanting to educate others. I would like to invite you to Georgia in July or Jupiter in October, so you would be even more prepared to educate others. I think seeing the best of both would be very educating in itself. You will even see some very good teams with players that play for free or at a low cost.

I do think you have brought up some very valid points, I just think there's more to it than simply wanting to help people save money. I could be wrong.

BTW, It would be great if American Legion baseball had more people like you involved. If they had more people like you, maybe we wouldn't have so much to discuss these days.

Note: I'm not much of a testimonial type person.

There is no doubt that showcase/travel teams are the best way to get exposure
and to get your best baseball experience. I know a lot of parents of quality young baseball
players that just don't have the financial means to do it. What options do they have?
Where can they go?

First of all whats wrong with making a living at providing a valuable service? I believe there is nothing greater for a person than to go to work everyday doing something that they love to do that helps people they really care about while also making a living at it. Thats not a job thats a passion. Coaches get paid to coach at the HS and College levels. They dont get into this profession for the money. They do it because they have a passion for the game and those that play the game. Are there showcase / travel team coaches that do it simply for the money? I am sure there are. But they would be very easy to spot and figure out.

TR disagrees with you coach. Thats his right. But I know TR. He is in this for all the right reasons and cares deeply about the game and helping young men reach their dream. There are many young men that have played at the next level are playing at the next level and will play at the next level because of TR's passion to help them.

quote:

There is no doubt that showcase/travel teams are the best way to get exposure
and to get your best baseball experience. I know a lot of parents of quality young baseball
players that just don't have the financial means to do it. What options do they have?
Where can they go?

DoverDAD,
Legion baseball or any other baseball provides an opportunity. Do whatever is possible to play baseball at the highest possible level and overcome the odds. Ask for help and help is likely to appear. I think this is exactly what Coach Milburn means. Talent is talent, if people know about a player who is extremely talented things are likely to work out. All of the best players don't appear on Area Code, East Coast Pro or Perfect Game rosters. But there are many people who want to know who the best players are. It might be a bit more difficult, but far from impossible. The best players always seem to end up with opportunities.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Coach,

I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.

Now ...

- Will someone please tell me HOW in the world did players get exposed to the colleges back before the craze of showcase/travel-ball teams started?

- How in the world did players ever get into college and/or obtain scholarships w/o travel-ball and or showcase teams?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
Parents and players need to understand just because you spend more money does not guarantee you anything but less money in the bank.

My thoughts exactly.

Exposure is necessary, but I don't beleive in over spending, it only takes one coach to see you who likes you to make that offer. There are some venues that without a doubt you should attend, attending camps of the college you may be interested in is also beneficial. Playing for someone who knows many college coaches is important too. Playing for a team that has a good reputation of winning and good kids is important too. Coaches appreciate it when you have spent time with the player and you can speak for his work, team efforts and personality.

I am not sure what the argument is, as CPLZ said a few days ago in another thread, there are more ways than one to skin a cat, and you don't have to feel you have to break the bank to do it, even today.

JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by azallan:
I am the lucky one that lived through that! Yes, I got the NCSA before I found reality. But it did serve as a knowlege base and a good refrence for us. This site is definately more useful! At 50 you arn't as loose as you were. I still have nightmares about that. No more pitching for me! But son still needs a East Cobb team. Don't let my recklessness take you away from his opportunities. I promise to be good. lol thanks

I am not understanding the "need" for playing for a team at East Cobb if he is satisfied with the school he has signed for? Why not just play close to home? I also don't understand the need to post his website address so many times.

What's up, be honest, are you looking for a better opportunity for him?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:


Now ...

- Will someone please tell me HOW in the world did players get exposed to the colleges back before the craze of showcase/travel-ball teams started?

- How in the world did players ever get into college and/or obtain scholarships w/o travel-ball and or showcase teams?

Coach,

I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.

Coach, I'll be happy to address that question. Years ago, before the advent of college development programs (CD Teams) and/or travel baseball teams, things like high school baseball and legion baseball were all that was out there. recruiters and scouts would go from game to game to check out one or two prospects, they spent a lot of time on the road, and seldom got to see very many players of interest at any one time.

When the showcases first hit the scene, things started to change. Scouts and college coaches could suddenly go to one place and watch many legitimate prospects at one time, instead of what they had been doing previously, getting to see one or two prospects at a typical high school or legion game (assuming there was even one or two at most of those games). They quickly figured out that this was a more cost effective approach, and the teams figured out that by building the best teams they could, the level of baseball they played was higher and spurred the players with the ability to play at those levels on to better themselves. It also gave the recruiters and scouts a better gauge of a prospects true potential because he is now playing against players with similar talent. I won't go into that aspect more as I believe that the post by Coach May earlier in this thread was about as perfect a description as it is possible to give.

The bottom line is that back in 'the old days' that you ask about, there was no alternative. Nowadays, most of the top players are participating in this type of baseball, and doing it for many reasons. College recruiters and scouts go to these games for a few simple reasons. #1, they get to see most of the top talent compete with and against each other. Second, they can stretch their travel budgets and maximize the use of their time in a more efficient manner.

I think American Legion baseball is a great thing, but please realize that while we're playing the same game, we're not really playing the same game. Legion teams generally cannot compete with the top College Development teams if for no other reason than the composition of their rosters. You can only recruit players from a small number of schools, while I have no restrictions. I can go recruit any player I want, from anywhere. You get the best five to seven players from each school you draw from, while teams like mine get the best one or two players from the schools we draw from. Now, put yourself in the shoes of a college recruiting coordinator or MLB scout, which team would you rather scout for future players?

To illustrate this as clearly as possible, I'm listing the roster for my 2009 18u Connie Mack league team. Please note, I am NOT taking credit for these boys getting to college (though all of their families will tell you I played a role with most of them) nor for developing them into fine young men and players as most of them had outstanding high school coaches who taught them how to play the game the right way. They're all good students, and fine young men.

Again, put yourself in the role of a college recruiter or scout and tell yourself which team you'd rather watch, the typical non-college development team like a legion team, or college development teams like this one.

Here's my 2009 team:
Brock Simon, Jesuit '09, RHP, Santa Clara
Martin Agosta, Jesuit '09, RHP, St. Mary's
Alex Plog, Jesuit '09, RHP, Air Force
Stephen Ostapeck, Jesuit '09, RHP, Villanova
Justin Charles, Elk Grove '09, 2B, Fresno State
Dylan Chaves, Pleasant Grove '09, LHP, St. Mary's
Jared Deacon, Elk Grove '09, C, Cal State Fullerton
Andrew Susac, Jesuit '09, C, Oregon State
Danny Hayes, Jesuit '09, 3B/1B, Oregon State
Jimmy Bosco, Jesuit '09, OF, Cal
Chris Piwinski, Jesuit '09, C/OF, Yale
Brad Nease, Granite Bay '09, LHP, St. Mary's (medical RS, arm injury)
Michael Rivera, St. Mary's HS '09, C/3B, Fresno Pacific
Jake Schu, Oak Ridge '10, SS, committed to Nevada
Kyle Porter, Oak Ridge '10, LHP, committed to Cal
Tyler Kuresa, Oakmont '10, 1B. committed to Oregon
Jordan Mills, Oak Ridge '10, LHP, committed to St. Mary's
Will Soto, Elk Grove '10 SS/3B, committed to Sacramento State
Dan Child, Jesuit '10, RHP, committed to Oregon State
Jake Rodriguez, Elk Grove '10, SS/3B, committed to Oregon State
Plus, we had addional players who are now playing Jr. College baseball and who will move on in a couple years.

Now, before you complain that we simply go out and recruit all the top talent, I have two things to say. First, most of these student athletes played on our teams for 3-5 years. While their high school coaches deserve a lot of credit for their development, we certainly helped their development too. We all taught them to play the game the right way. Most of my coaches played college and/or pro baseball, and are all good at teaching the game, just as many of those high school coaches are. Second, we do exactly what the college baseball teams do...recruit the best prospects to fill their rosters. We're just looking for talented players when they're 13-14 years old, and taking them until they're ready for college. If you were a college coach, wouldn't you like to be able to scout teams like these?

I'll close by giving you a classic view of a regular league game we played last summer, against Norcal. My team above was playing their Connie Mack team, which had an equal number of players including Andrew Aplin, '09 Arizona State, Christian Jones '09 Oregon, Mark Appel '09 Stanford, Grant Saunders, '09 Penn, and more D1 players. This was just a regular league game. We had 10 Division 1 coaches and 4 MLB scouts at that simple league game. They were there because there were 18 legitimate prospects on the field every inning.

I hope this helps you understand what we do, and why people gravitate toward programs like ours, Norcal, TR's, Coach Mays and many other fine programs throughout the country.

Coach, I am a little stunned you posted other people's email adresses and phone numbers (probably without permission).

I would hope the moderators would remove the link.

There is always somebody out there that will take your money. I have talked to parents who complained how they spent all this money for a travel team and their son got little playing time. For some reason some feel paying money = success. to all those on this site a little advice from an old timer talent = success.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
There is always somebody out there that will take your money. I have talked to parents who complained how they spent all this money for a travel team and their son got little playing time. For some reason some feel paying money = success. to all those on this site a little advice from an old timer talent = success.

True but there are some trying to help players and families for the least out-of-pocket expense as possible.

Yes there are people out there trying to help people for the least out of pocket expense. And remember you get what you pay for. If you can not afford to play on one of these teams it does not mean you are doomed. It simply means you have to take another route. College camps , local showcase events , legion baseball , summer high school league , etc.

I have been a part of two great summer fall showcase programs over the years. In both cases we "Tried to help people for the least out of pocket expense." While at the same time help their kid get as much exposure to the coaches and programs that would benefit their child the most.

Coach we all know there are people out there that will take peoples money and promise them things they can not deliver on. They prey on parents fears and their desire to see their kid advance in the game. That does not mean that everyone falls into that same category.

You can go as cheap as you want to go. Congrats if you are helping people and at the same time helping them cut down on expense. Keep on keeping on. Just dont assume that everyone that does this is out to simply make a buck. And dont knock everyone doing it just because you dont think they have to. You help your kids to the best of your ability and let everyone else do the same. There is room enough for everyone that wants to help.

Lets see:

On one hand - I have my first hand personal experiences - years of it - dealing with TRHit and PGStaff.

They spend all of their time helping young players reach their potential. I doubt either of these guys will be challenging Warren Buffett for world's richest man anytime soon. The mere mention of these individuals names associated with "profit" makes me want to puke.

On the other hand - I have a cyber poster named Coach Milburn. Ranting and raving about some very obvious facts - and also slinging some cyber-mud as an additional treat for us all to partake in.

Bo - with a capital B - gus. Bogus.


Here's my assessment - Legion has been slowly dying in most parts of the country - and for good reasons. Coach Milburn doesnt like that.

So - instead of talking objectively about why that has been happening for the past 20 years - he prefers to attack the organizations that have displaced Legion - and the people that run them.

Why?

Because they have provided a better alternative than Legion ball for youth players to be recognized.

Simple as that.

Typical Legion mentality - and one of the reasons why it has been dying - or in some regions of the country - now officially dead.

All IMO.

If legion was the better option then that is what kids would be doing. Politics reign supreme in legion baseball. Rules that are simply ridiculous. I coached at a great hs program that was a feeder program for three legion programs. We are smack dab in the middle of three legion programs and depending on where you live must try out for one of three legion programs. These legion programs take the players from their programs. The kids that come from outside programs rarely make the teams and when do sit behind the kids from these home programs. I have had all state players committed to D1 programs it behind players from home schools that couldnt hold their jock strap.

So what happened? My son and his best friend wanted to play legion the summer before heading off to college so they wouldnt have to travel before going off to college. The local legion teams parents were upset because they didnt think their kids should lose playing time. The coaches "Dads of legion players" said no thanks are rosters are full. So these two boys were asked to play for a legion program in Rocky Mount 1 hour from home. They were very excited about getting the opportunity to play and attended a practice. The coaches of these other Legion programs would not release them and complained and protested and Bi*ched to the point they both said the heck with it.

Legion is dead in our area. It is dead because the serious ball players dont want to play daddy ball and politics. It might be great in your neck of the woods and if so fine enjoy. Around here its a joke and not an option for those wanting to play baseball where the best play the others play somewhere else. Legion is its own enemy.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Lets see:

On one hand - I have my first hand personal experiences - years of it - dealing with TRHit and PGStaff.

They spend all of their time helping young players reach their potential. I doubt either of these guys will be challenging Warren Buffett for world's richest man anytime soon. The mere mention of these individuals names associated with "profit" makes me want to puke.

On the other hand - I have a cyber poster named Coach Milburn. Ranting and raving about some very obvious facts - and also slinging some cyber-mud as an additional treat for us all to partake in.

Bo - with a capital B - gus. Bogus.


Here's my assessment - Legion has been slowly dying in most parts of the country - and for good reasons. Coach Milburn doesnt like that.

So - instead of talking objectively about why that has been happening for the past 20 years - he prefers to attack the organizations that have displaced Legion - and the people that run them.

Why?

Because they have provided a better alternative than Legion ball for youth players to be recognized.

Simple as that.

Typical Legion mentality - and one of the reasons why it has been dying - or in some regions of the country - now officially dead.

All IMO.

Sorry, but your perception is wrong.

I have not made any personal remarks regarding anyone organization.

I for one, am not affiliated with American Legion Baseball nor I am an legionnaire.

Furthermore, some of those State Commissioners got a little upset that I was offering suggestions to make ALB more attractive by expanding the rosters.

To close, No I am not mad.

That is my statement!

Coach May,

It died in the Northeast about 20 years ago. A shame.

We were fortunate in some ways. K played Legion ball 2 summers ago.

Not only did he enjoy it - but my wife and I and many of our neighbors enjoyed it as well. Legion the way I remembered it. A barbeque grill - and alot of really nice people from the Legion that made every game just fun to be at. And some excellent local players as well.

I think the other reason it was so enjoyable was that we didnt have to deal with people badmouthing other alternatives - like PG or Impact.

We just went to the games - and enjoyed them with people who wanted to carry on a true local experience - and who volunteered their time to provide a fun and healthy environment for baseball players.

I really enjoyed the experience - and feel bad about what I have seen happening to Legion Ball elsewhere over the past 20 years or so.

Coach Milburn,

IMO

There is no justification - whatsoever - regardless of the argument you are having - to imply - directly or indirectly - that the pursuit of profit and TR/PG are somehow linked.

To people like me - it completely discredits anything you have to say.

Throwing that garbage into your discussions/arguments pretty much zeroes you out.

And that is that IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Milburn

Are you old enough to have sons at the recruiting stage?

What is the appropriate age TRhit?

There is a perception Sir, that you do not like it when others come on here to help educate the parents and players with a different perspective.

A question for you, do you operate a business where you make money off baseball?

Coach Milburn - what - exactly - is that?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Coach

Me to you and no disrespect intended--I am glad you are not involved with my son or my players---your thinking does not work in todays recruiting world

TRhit, YOU do not know me and have NO background on me, so your comment has no merit.

My college contact list and the kids I have helped, speaks for itself. I help kids with for no monetary return!

What's the ol' saying, "The love of money is the root of all evils"

Coach Milburn - and what is this?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
milburn

You know what is scary?--a poster putting up a link to testimonials---anyone can get them--it is like references--you ever see a job reference that spoke bad of the applicant? I have not and I have seen a load of job applications

Funny how you glided over my statement about the self gratifying email you sent me--little things stick in this old mans mind


Have a nice day

Bottom-line "TRhit", you are making money off this gig and I am not, so that is the major difference between you and I.

The "testimonials" went up because YOU want to try discredit me for some reason.

I for one have never stated anything negative toward you or about your program, but you had made this a personal issue and for that, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Coach Milburn - Oops - I am trying to figure out what this is too.

Coach Milburn,

If your sole purpose is to help others save money, I'm all for it! Everyone knows what we do, but I too have seen people who waste their money. This is especially troublesome when it is someone who can not afford to waste money. The problem is that we never know until after the fact whether the money was spent wisely.

We also know there are talented players whose families simply can't afford what we do. Heck, I would have been one of those when our kids were young. Everyone knows the biggest expense involves the travel rather than the fee a tournament or showcase charges.

The NCAA rules make it very hard to help these kids who need it the most. However, we always try to find help for those kids we know of who have talent. One way that we can help is to find someone else (Like a high level travel team) to cover these kids and give them a chance. The thing that hardly ever gets mentioned here is just how many talented kids have been and are helped by some of the best travel/club programs that you seem to be against. Some of the players that they have helped are now starring in the Big Leagues.

Lastly, I don't think the people who need your help the most are posting here on HSBBW. However, as a group I do believe those involved here could be extremely helpful to those who do need it the most. I would guess there are some wealthy posters here who could be the major reason certain young kids get an opportunity to make it big. I know from past experience that no amount of money can replace that feeling of helping someone. I know I'm not alone in experiencing that.

Unfortunately, most of those who really need our help are without computers and video cameras. These talented kids are left to hopefully be found the old fashion way. Some are found because there are people/coaches who care at their high school and other organizations. Others fall by the wayside in academics, athletics and life.

My invitation to Georgia and Florida still stands. I think you might see some things a bit differently if you spent a few days in that environment.

Great post PG. We never turn a player down because they can not afford to play. NEVER. I have sponsered many kids over the years and so have many other people. When I find a kid I believe will benefit from the experience and they simply can not afford to play then we take it on are own to get it done. Many weekends these players stay with me or another family or coach. We pick up the tab for the team fee or find someone that will. Or we simply waive it.

Other teams do the same thing. And I know for a fact that many people that put on showcase events do the same thing for kids in need. Are there people who make a living or some extra money on baseball? Yes. And I am glad they are out there. They offer something that is very valuable to many many players. I dont see where there is anything wrong at all in making some money at what you love to do and something that helps kids out.

Are there people that take advantage of folks whos intent is to scam? Of course there are. People can find out who they are and will if they do their homework.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
In response to this question from an HSBBweb Old Timer poster/administrator ...

"May I ask you what your problem is with travel/showcase teams?"

I am just trying to inform the players and parents of the options out there to assist them in gaining exposure at the most affordable avenue.

How can that be viewed as having a problem with travel/showcase teams?

I didn't take anything said as a slam against travel teams or showcases, just another point of view.
I also didn't read where the poster said one negative thing about any organization.

JMO.

TPM - then you didnt read with enough scrutiny IMO.

Or maybe you have so much distaste for TR that you just refuse to be fair in your assessment.

Either way - that is your problem. Not mine.

Implying - PUBLICLY - that someone helps young players for monetary reasons - when that is in fact a bold faced lie - is not something that I will let go without a response. Ever.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
TPM - then you didnt read with enough scrutiny IMO.

Or maybe you have so much distaste for TR that you just refuse to be fair in your assessment.

Either way - that is your problem. Not mine.

Implying - PUBLICLY - that someone helps young players for monetary reasons - when that is in fact a bold faced lie - is not something that I will let go without a response. Ever.

iitg,
I must be missing something because that quote comes from someplace other than here, do you see where it came from or who? Did I mention your friend? Also show me where Coach discredits travel teams and showcases, he is only giving another opinion which he is entitled to. I don't necessarily agree with everything he said (as did others) but I saw no one jump on him for him to strike back with a comment he probably should not have said. I understand that.

I see that PG doesn't agree, yet his posts were thoughful and made very much sense to the topic. I don't always agree with Jerry and he knows that, but I have great respect for him because of how he treats others. There is nothing wrong with having a business you profit from that truely helps others and offers a good service. The impressions you give to others is good for business and credibility. JMO.

Actually things turned when Coach started getting the third degree and some things said to him, baited him to say what he did, would you not agree?

There were lots of folks who appreciated the advice given. Did you not notice that also?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Coach Milburn,

If your sole purpose is to help others save money, I'm all for it! Everyone knows what we do, but I too have seen people who waste their money. This is especially troublesome when it is someone who can not afford to waste money. The problem is that we never know until after the fact whether the money was spent wisely.

We also know there are talented players whose families simply can't afford what we do. Heck, I would have been one of those when our kids were young. Everyone knows the biggest expense involves the travel rather than the fee a tournament or showcase charges.

The NCAA rules make it very hard to help these kids who need it the most. However, we always try to find help for those kids we know of who have talent. One way that we can help is to find someone else (Like a high level travel team) to cover these kids and give them a chance. The thing that hardly ever gets mentioned here is just how many talented kids have been and are helped by some of the best travel/club programs that you seem to be against. Some of the players that they have helped are now starring in the Big Leagues.

Lastly, I don't think the people who need your help the most are posting here on HSBBW. However, as a group I do believe those involved here could be extremely helpful to those who do need it the most. I would guess there are some wealthy posters here who could be the major reason certain young kids get an opportunity to make it big. I know from past experience that no amount of money can replace that feeling of helping someone. I know I'm not alone in experiencing that.

Unfortunately, most of those who really need our help are without computers and video cameras. These talented kids are left to hopefully be found the old fashion way. Some are found because there are people/coaches who care at their high school and other organizations. Others fall by the wayside in academics, athletics and life.

My invitation to Georgia and Florida still stands. I think you might see some things a bit differently if you spent a few days in that environment.

I would have to respectfully disagree with some of your points and I cannot think of anyone not having access to the NET now-a-days. Access is readily available.

I have agree with whomever stated ...

"Talent is Talent"

I know up here, everyone talks about the better players within each district, so it's no secret to whom the better players are. Back in the day, I would say, you had to be in the know, BUT today with the NET, it's really difficult to go unknown.

As the VanSickler kid from Winchester, he was a late bloomer and he really did not start to grow more until his freshmen of college. Honestly, that is why he went unnoticed, he was somewhat skinny 160lb 6'0" kid who put on about 15-20lbs during his freshman year.

And talent will be discovered because there is so many ways to get the word out today vs. back-n-the-day.

Again, maybe I missed it, BUT how did players get exposed and/or obtain scholarships before the craze for travel/showcase ball?

As for American Legion, they have rules and protocols to keep it balanced across the board. ALB is making an epic stride this year with online registration and I would not be surprised to see ALB expand the rosters in the near future as that is my own opinion.

Furthermore, I am reading on the ALB Nat'l website where Legion Posts are going back to where kids do not have to Pay-To-Play.

http://www.legion.org/baseball

I am sorry, I missed the invitation?

As for TRhit, my perception was that he was on mission to get me off the board or to entice into a negative dialog. Did I say somethings that may of been boarderline, probably so, but is there some truth to the my statements, probably so.

If anyone is offended with me trying to tell a different story other than your story, then I am sorry, but there are many different avenues that can be pursued to reach the same destination.

Respectfully shared,
Coach Milburn
coachmilburn(at)gmail(dot)com

Coach Milburn,

As budgets for college baseball continue to be restrained at best - and grow smaller at worst - college coaches seek venues where they can see as many quality players as efficiently as possible.

The Showcase/Travel phenomenon suits this reality.

Getting recruited to play college baseball is similar to pursuing any other opportunity. It is a numbers game.

The more people that see you - the better your chances are to show your ability - and the better your chances are to increase the pool of opportunities.

Can you be "found" if you dont participate in these events - sure.
Are you increasing your opportunities by not participating. I would say no.

Coach Milburn,

I would take PGstaff on the offer of visiting Jupiter or The National showcase in June. Our players who had attended some of the PG events had said some positive things about their experience. I had not attended any events myself. We had quite a few guys that went a few years ago and traveled with them to the National Showcase the last year it was in Cincy. I even had a kid stay with is us I did not know. We were asked if we could help him out. Our players knew him and said he was a good kid. He did not have the money to for hotel so we took him in. I was totally taken aback of what I saw at the National showcase. I had never seen so much talent in my entire life. This past year in Minnesota the event was even more outstanding. The players in my program that attended stepped up their game even more after the event. They were able to gauge where they stood on a national scale. I hope to attend the National Showcase at Tropicana this June.

I agree with you on different avenues to reach different destinations....the question is where is each players destination?

milburn

Perceptions can be misleading---by the way you never explained why you sent me that EMAIL WITH ALL YOUR PICTURES ( self serving) or why you took my email to you and went public with it

I could care less if you are on this site or not--and you certainly are entitled to your opinions, right or wrong but when I find that you cannot be trusted then you have a problem in gaining respect from me

Coach Milburn,

Read this article. This is a player who would have been missed in the old days. In fact, he was nearly missed anyway. There are others. Many more were missed in the old days. I could provide much more info if you're interested.

Last Chance

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
milburn

Perceptions can be misleading---by the way you never explained why you sent me that EMAIL WITH ALL YOUR PICTURES ( self serving) or why you took my email to you and went public with it

I could care less if you are on this site or not--and you certainly are entitled to your opinions, right or wrong but when I find that you cannot be trusted then you have a problem in gaining respect from me

"TRhit" ... what is your problem?

My e-mail to you was to reintroduce myself and put a face to the e-mail. There were (2) pictures, one of me in a profile shot with Winchester Post 21 and the other pickup up the DBAT during an RCBL game.

I do not understand your commennt, "EMAIL WITH ALL YOUR PICTURES"

The perception is that you have a serious problem with me telling a different story than yours.

quote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <coachmilburn@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:32 PM
Subject: TRHit ... We chatted years ago ..
To: TRhit@msn.com



BUT wanted to reintroduce myself ...

Jeff Milburn from Winchester, VA ... coaching experience from 13yr olds through College of going on 21yrs.

A couple of pics attached ... one with the "D-Bat" with me still playing in the RCBL back in 2007 with the young bucks between the ages of 17 to 32 for the majority and then there are a few guys older than that.

Respectfully,
Coach Milburn

TRhit, I could care less what you think of me and you need to keep your opinions to yourself.

Who are YOU? I don't have to gain the respect of you Mr. Rizzi.

Furthermore, its becoming more evident that the hsbaseballweb maybe an avenue for the showcase and travel teams to advertise so they can make money?

And heaven forbid anyone disagree with you folks as you guys will try to discredit anyone.

So you guys are the baseball GODS of the world today? You know it kills me when folks come out and try to reinvent the game of baseball.

The only thing I stated from very beginning, folks (parents and players) do your homework!

To close ... Baseball is a simple game, people are complex!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Coach Milburn,

Read this article. This is a player who would have been missed in the old days. In fact, he was nearly missed anyway. There are others. Many more were missed in the old days. I could provide much more info if you're interested.

Last Chance

Thanks, I will review.

Coach I can see you are frustrated. Dont allow yourself to get frustrated and upset with the things you read on this site. There are many different views and opinions on every topic that is discussed on this site. If everyone felt the same way about everything we sure wouldnt be around very long , at least I wouldnt. You made your point and you have a right to express them. Everyone is not going to agree. Some will agree some will not. But it only helps to hear from every side an issue.

Milburn

Pal you are way off base--again you go public with things--why re-introduce yourself to me if you do not agree with my philosophy--I do not agree with your thinking, and you do not agree with mine and that is fine---a lot of people don't like my thinkings --while many others do--I can't please everyone nor do I try to--your thinking is from the 90's when my last guys came out of HS--BTW even back then in his NY region, Legion was weak and inept even before they shot themselves in the foot with the 19 year olds being eligible--In CT, NH and RI legion still has a foothold that is strong but it is weakening because of the age change and too much "daddy ball" is involved

As for my opinions--I was under the impression as a so called "old timer" that this was a site for discussion and debate--you have your opinions-- I have mine-- I don't have to agree with you and vice versa -- but like I say when you take emails(supposedly private) and air them them any respect I have for you is nil-- there are others on here that do the same I feel the same about them

Review all you want but you are not worth the effort any longe--have a nice year

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Milburn

Pal you are way off base--again you go public with things--why re-introduce yourself to me if you do not agree with my philosophy--I do not agree with your thinking, and you do not agree with mine and that is fine---a lot of people don't like my thinkings --while many others do--I can't please everyone nor do I try to--your thinking is from the 90's when my last guys came out of HS--BTW even back then in his NY region, Legion was weak and inept even before they shot themselves in the foot with the 19 year olds being eligible--In CT, NH and RI legion still has a foothold that is strong but it is weakening because of the age change and too much "daddy ball" is involved

As for my opinions--I was under the impression as a so called "old timer" that this was a site for discussion and debate--you have your opinions-- I have mine-- I don't have to agree with you and vice versa -- but like I say when you take emails(supposedly private) and air them them any respect I have for you is nil-- there are others on here that do the same I feel the same about them

Review all you want but you are not worth the effort any longe--have a nice year

TRhit, I have nothing to hide, that is why I try to be so transparent.

Sorry that you do not agree with me about transparency.

Furthermore, I have NEVER stated ALB is the answer for all. But what I am doing is sharing ideas for (players/parents) to consider other avenues to reach the same destination.

I am a supporter of (players/parents) getting the best bang for their money invested. I've heard many success stories and I've also heard the stories where folks are been preyed upon because they are uninformed.

How in the world can that be wrong for sharing information on a different story other than yours?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Coach I can see you are frustrated. Dont allow yourself to get frustrated and upset with the things you read on this site. There are many different views and opinions on every topic that is discussed on this site. If everyone felt the same way about everything we sure wouldnt be around very long , at least I wouldnt. You made your point and you have a right to express them. Everyone is not going to agree. Some will agree some will not. But it only helps to hear from every side an issue.

Coach_May ... I am not frustrated, but I will defend my position. Sure everyone is different, thank the LORD Jesus that is so.

Again, my perception, some folks on here are a little irritated because my story is not the same as theirs.

I want to thank everyone for allowing to voice my opinion based on 20+ years of coaching from various levels: 13-15yr old, JV High School Baseball, Varsity HS Baseball, ALB Baseball and College baseball. So yes, I think I have a pretty good opinion on how kids can get into college for the least amount of "out-of-pocket" expense. Heck, I was out there recruiting myself.

So for anyone who wants to discredit me, what is your problem?

Respectfully shared,
Coach Milburn

Coach Milburn,

You seem to be quite irritated yourself.

Seems like you cant make your point without disparaging others and insinuating - either directly or indirectly - that it is all about money. IMO - That is a bad thing to do when you dont even know the people involved.

That is also the part about your posts that make me dismiss them as frustrated rants - as opposed to honest opinions.

Its a shame - because I thought for a moment that you actually had a meaningful point to make.

Either way - the globe will keep spinning.

Coach you appear to be the one irritated that people on here have a different story than you. But thats just my perception. You are the one that is attempting to paint others with a wide brush. You can state your opinion and leave it at that. But you continue to post in other forums as well with a wide brush.

Congrats on your many years of service to the baseball community. Do you think your the only person that is attempting to get kids opportunities for the least amount of out of pocket expense?

I have no problem with a informative debate and I am sure many readers are appreciative of the information that has taken place within this dialog.

For the (Players and Parents), if anyone "guarantees" you something, then by all means get that in writing because anyone can tell you something and then pull a Roger Clemons, "misremembered".

Take notes and document what others tell you, you'll be further ahead in the end by doing so.

Coaches,

Seems to me as you reflect back on this thread and the ensuing emotional debate; that the Subject Title and the accompanying opening statement was, in itself, emotional and anti-Travel/showcase. What would you expect to get from a discussion topic started using that approach?

Staying completely neutral in this very informative debate, this is what we expect to do with our son. The district he plays in is not too overly competitive unless you reach a few rounds into the playoffs (ain't gonna happen). In my opinion, the only way for son to gauge where he is at talent wise is to tryout and if talented enough make a reputable travel/select team in our area. If the team is made and our budget will allow, playing against some of the best and being successful both will hopefully put him on radars that otherwise he might not appear on, and more importantly, give him the confidence that he can compete and be successful at any level, regardless of the talent level you compete against in high school.
So for us, a travel squad would be beneficial.

Peace out

Bottom-line, the choice is up to (player/parents) on how much they want spend of their own money. Some may not have to, just depends how your approach it. Conduct your own due diligence.

Just wanted to share again, there are other avenues to reach the same destination.

(Players/Parents), do your homework and you can make inquiries with whichever school you desire yourself. Make sure you can cite credible sources to back your information.

Here's the kicker, make sure you do not share a video to early to the point where you still need to develop, because if there is somethings that a coach does not like about your video, then that could hurt your chances of getting an extra look. Your respective high school coaches can be of help if you ask them. And the (player/parent) must be very realistic about what level of baseball you can play. Review what others have done on your own respective team and see where they went onto college to play baseball BUT in the end, it only takes one to like you!

Keep the facts/highlights to the point and do not embellish. I don't believe college coaches are interested what you did as a 14U. I would keep it to your sophomore year and up unless you were a talented freshmen playing varsity baseball as a starter. Just my opinion.

Respectfully shared,
Coach Milburn

quote:

Originally posted by CatchingCoach05:
As a HS coach and associate pro scout, I always tell my kids that if they can play, they will be seen.

I would rather see a kid spend the money and get proper instruction, rather than spend all the money on the travel teams. Just my opinion.

I always hear about young kids (10-14) playing 70-80 games, but in playing those games are they really getting better? Some might, but a lot I see do not. They just keep making the same mistakes that will hurt later on if not corrected.

Am I against the travel teams, no, not necessarily, but I just feel proper instruction and reps are better served especially during those years where the instruction is really needed.

Once in HS and after the proper skills are ingrained, then focus more on the games aspect.

Great post, I believe there is too much emphasis on playing (especially year-around) and not enough time spent on getting proper instruction to become a better baseball player.

I also like to see kids play multiple sports which only makes them a better and more well-rounded athlete.

Coach Milburn you are the man here and every thing you have stated is the sad truth even without our newly formed economy.

I’ve been beating around this bush for a while about this important subject but know that if I would have started this thread the scures would have come out and I would have been 2’d and barbequed and warned in some manor because of my other problem with established evolved thinking regarding pitching injuries that nobody wants to address.
You are exactly right in your assessments but way to kindly and vague. This stuff has degraded to where a full 1/3 of American youth players who can not afford to even attend Connie Mack leagues let alone expensive show cases, camps and travel teams are being left with an unfair disadvantage and bumped back in the recruiting wars, lets hope that that millionaire PG wants to show up does because it sound like with his answer that they aren’t going to help in this regard, there is no questioner on your ability to pay.(not just you PG)!

I helped run Connie Mack teams for 20 years in Orange County Ca., Cowboys, Shockers, and the Devils in SoCal and we charged $220.00 for the summer, our costs were $180.00 (non profit) and we recruited kids out of our area in Riverside, San Bernardino and the Valley knowing that many of these kids could not afford even Connie Mack, the extra $40.00 would cover 6 kids a year who could not afford it and all the other parents knew what we were doing and approved. When SVG came into Connie Mack they took up this recruiting area and are an exception in my opinion and greatly appreciated.

Should there be a scholarship program in the recruiting wars?

So, the problem that is being glossed over here with no real answers other than this is the way it is, is not good enough and should be talked about and solved and guys like PG are the only ones that can really make a difference. More honest dialog please!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

Everyone has a video camera ... here you go ... another opportunity to get video footage of you son and a few more clicks ... YouTube and there you go, video footage of your son can be sent along as well.

In the end, the choice is for you the parents to make, but at what cost? More parents should focus on the education part and if baseball works out, then that would be a HR.

Coach,
You are right about focusing on grades and that some coaches love video links while others don't. One response confirming this is this quote from a coach at a prestigious and winning baseball school.
"Thank you for your interest in ------ and our program. We appreciate the fact that you would like to compete and be a part of a “winning” program. I appreciated the fact you sent us a video link. You demonstrated the skill set to play at the next level. I am interested in knowing more about your academic background"
Another coach at a great school simply blocked future emails as spam with no reply. So I guess it depends on the coach. I don't know much but going to a college showcase camp, hitting a couple BP Homeruns and game hits up the middle against many pitchers who throw more balls than strikes and walk you 3 times can be an expensive excercise that does't reveal as much as staying home and playing JUCO teams. Just my opinion.

Yardbird,
Why is it you want to call me out. What is with “That millionaire PG”? Do you know my personal financial situation?

Let me leave you with this… We help more kids who can’t afford to play at a high level in one year, than you have in your entire life. It is well documented and you can start with Carl Crawford who was as poor as you get growing up in Houston. BTW, It all started for Carl over the Christmas Break in Ft Myers, FL. This is a fact that the Scouting Director for Tampa Bay at the time has openly stated many times in various publications.

Our #1 reason for getting involved in high level travel ball was to get kids more opportunities. Due to NCAA rules we can only do so much for kids at individual events (Showcases). However, we have no problem finding quality teams for high level prospects that cost the player and his family nothing. That is how we get many of the top players to our events.

You mentioned SVG as an exception to what we do and they are greatly appreciated. Listen, we also appreciate what SGV is doing. They play in our events including last month in Jupiter. I don’t know if you just jumped in on this or read the entire thread.

I have nothing against Coach Milburn and he is entitled to his opinion. There is no doubt that he is a true American Legion booster. I am too, but times have changed. Yardbird, what you are doing has to be considered a big change in thinking.

Above all, it is YOU that is entirely set in your ways. You simply fail to hear the other side. I have always tried to be as honest as possible when discussing opportunities for baseball players. This includes many times when I have stated it might be better to NOT spend money on PG. Many times I’ve stated that it would be best for certain players to get instruction in the off season. Now you are saying it, yet I’m not sure you totally agree with that based on your training thoughts.

You seem to want to paint a picture of some greedy A hole that just wants everyone’s money. Everyone, and I mean everyone, that truly knows me would tell you my passion revolves around other things than money. I’ve never tried to shove anything down someone’s throat as being the “only” way to succeed, just the opposite in fact. You on the other hand, seem to go with the one way approach and portray yourself as a person with ALL the answers.

Anyway, here is the last post by SGV (who you stated admiration for) in this thread. Note the Jupiter event is one his team plays in would be considered travel ball by many and it is in late October each year. The other he mentiones is the National Showcase, look up the “results” from those events. Once again, it is well documented!
Coach Milburn,

quote:

By SGV
I would take PGstaff on the offer of visiting Jupiter or The National showcase in June. Our players who had attended some of the PG events had said some positive things about their experience. I had not attended any events myself. We had quite a few guys that went a few years ago and traveled with them to the National Showcase the last year it was in Cincy. I even had a kid stay with is us I did not know. We were asked if we could help him out. Our players knew him and said he was a good kid. He did not have the money to for hotel so we took him in. I was totally taken aback of what I saw at the National showcase. I had never seen so much talent in my entire life. This past year in Minnesota the event was even more outstanding. The players in my program that attended stepped up their game even more after the event. They were able to gauge where they stood on a national scale. I hope to attend the National Showcase at Tropicana this June.

I agree with you on different avenues to reach different destinations....the question is where is each players destination?


http://www.sgvbaseball.com

Here are some of the posts I made in this thread.

quote:

Coach,

I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.

That's OK, but it appears you are very much an American Legion guy. I was too, many years ago. IMO, I think that is the main reason you have brought up the subject. And if it is, that's perfectly OK. I love Legion baseball, too.

Whenever I see posts that are written based on just wanting to help people save their money, I find it odd. Do you really care what people spend or where they spend it? I really like this site and the people involved. Yet, not once have I ever been concerned with how anyone here spends their money other than they should donate some to this site. Are there really people who post here that care how I spend my money? Does anyone care how much I spent on my kids when they were young? If so... The answer is very little because I didn't have much to spend.

I would much rather discuss the positives and negatives about Legion Baseball and/or travel baseball without worrying about how much money someone is spending. Obviously cost would then be an item for discussion. Then we could all chime in on the best way to get to the next level and any costs associated with that. Then rather than receiving an education, it would feel more like an open discussion.

The way I see it is like this... A Legion person is educating us on how to spend the least amount of money getting to the next level. I would be willing to bet that nearly everyone here already knows that playing Legion Ball is less expensive than playing Travel Baseball. I know you didn't exactly say that, but it's obvious which side you would be on. One thing to debate is which one is most likely to produce the best results. Which has the best competition and which has the most MLB scouts and college coaches in attendance? Then there are many other differences to debate, as well.

So the only thing I see wrong about all of this, if anything, is the fact that you mention wanting to educate others. I would like to invite you to Georgia in July or Jupiter in October, so you would be even more prepared to educate others. I think seeing the best of both would be very educating in itself. You will even see some very good teams with players that play for free or at a low cost.

I do think you have brought up some very valid points, I just think there's more to it than simply wanting to help people save money. I could be wrong.

BTW, It would be great if American Legion baseball had more people like you involved. If they had more people like you, maybe we wouldn't have so much to discuss these days.

Note: I'm not much of a testimonial type person.

quote:

DoverDAD,

Legion baseball or any other baseball provides an opportunity. Do whatever is possible to play baseball at the highest possible level and overcome the odds. Ask for help and help is likely to appear. I think this is exactly what Coach Milburn means. Talent is talent, if people know about a player who is extremely talented things are likely to work out. All of the best players don't appear on Area Code, East Coast Pro or Perfect Game rosters. But there are many people who want to know who the best players are. It might be a bit more difficult, but far from impossible. The best players always seem to end up with opportunities.

quote:

Coach Milburn,

If your sole purpose is to help others save money, I'm all for it! Everyone knows what we do, but I too have seen people who waste their money. This is especially troublesome when it is someone who can not afford to waste money. The problem is that we never know until after the fact whether the money was spent wisely.

We also know there are talented players whose families simply can't afford what we do. Heck, I would have been one of those when our kids were young. Everyone knows the biggest expense involves the travel rather than the fee a tournament or showcase charges.

The NCAA rules make it very hard to help these kids who need it the most. However, we always try to find help for those kids we know of who have talent. One way that we can help is to find someone else (Like a high level travel team) to cover these kids and give them a chance. The thing that hardly ever gets mentioned here is just how many talented kids have been and are helped by some of the best travel/club programs that you seem to be against. Some of the players that they have helped are now starring in the Big Leagues.

Lastly, I don't think the people who need your help the most are posting here on HSBBW. However, as a group I do believe those involved here could be extremely helpful to those who do need it the most. I would guess there are some wealthy posters here who could be the major reason certain young kids get an opportunity to make it big. I know from past experience that no amount of money can replace that feeling of helping someone. I know I'm not alone in experiencing that.

Unfortunately, most of those who really need our help are without computers and video cameras. These talented kids are left to hopefully be found the old fashion way. Some are found because there are people/coaches who care at their high school and other organizations. Others fall by the wayside in academics, athletics and life.

My invitation to Georgia and Florida still stands. I think you might see some things a bit differently if you spent a few days in that environment.

This one was in response to coach Milburn claims that it is difficult to go unknown.

quote:

Coach Milburn,

Read this article. This is a player who would have been missed in the old days. In fact, he was nearly missed anyway. There are others. Many more were missed in the old days. I could provide much more info if you're interested.

Last Chance

So now enters you, Yardbird into the discussion that started nearly a year ago. And you write this…
lets hope that that millionaire PG wants to show up does because it sound like with his answer that they aren’t going to help in this regard, there is no questioner on your ability to pay.(not just you PG)!

And this

So, the problem that is being glossed over here with no real answers other than this is the way it is, is not good enough and should be talked about and solved and guys like PG are the only ones that can really make a difference. More honest dialog please!

Yardbird, I believe you are not looking for any "real" discussion, you want much more than that! I know you once again will pick apart every word like some lawyer and only use the ones you want in order to make your point.

If I am your target, then get on the phone and call me. You’re more likely to accomplish things that way, if it really is that important to you.

Here is my question to you? I do think what you said you did while running Connie Mack teams is great. Do you know that there are travel teams in this country that don’t charge a dime? Not even the $220 you used to charge. And they do it now, not 20 years ago. They do play in the fall and their success stories are undeniable! Really I think that is your biggest issue (off season baseball) rather than what Coach Milburn was trying to explain.

I know this is way too long and I apologize for that, but I didn’t ask to be mentioned. We get lots of emails from parents and players.
Here is one I got today. I will blank out any names because it was a private email, but will gladly produce the entire email to Julie or any other administrator here if proof is needed.

Mr. Ford. I wanted to thank you for the wonderful organization you have created. Until last year My son ****** ****** was a relatively unknown pitcher from ******. We always thought he could compete against the best players, but couldn't prove it. After he attended your underclass session in December and your scouts saw and graded him we began getting offers from summer teams. He joined the ********** organization for their big Tournaments. He had already commited to the ******* ******* for the summer so we honored our commitment. They allowed him to play with ******** for those Perfect Game tournaments.As we suspected he was able to compete against the top level players. This in turn brought the college offers. I'm happy to announce he has verbally commited th the University of North Carolina.He also became great friends with a player from ******* named ******** ******** and have become best of friends and have both decided to return to play for ********* full time next summer. Mr ******** also attended this past weekend we spent at North Carolina and also verbally commited to UNC. This would have never happened had he not gone to that first PerfectGame event and for this I thank you.


**** ********

In ending, I have always maintained there is more than one way to success in baseball. Players have experienced success by taking so many different paths. I just don’t understand why anyone would argue against any of those ways that have “proven” to work with such great numbers.

PG,

I did not call YOU a millionaire!! Although I can see where you might have thought that? Quit being so self absorbed, I’m asking for your opinion on how to help this problem that you seem to be un-aware of or not, I was commenting on you relying on:

quote:

“I would guess there are some wealthy posters here who could be the major reason certain young kids get an opportunity to make it big. I know from past experience that no amount of money can replace that feeling of helping someone”

That is not going to help the many who need this help and never get it.
Nothing that you just wrote helped one iota and has nothing to do with what was being discussed. Make some helpful suggestions instead of being so protective about your service that I think is actually legit just not fair!!

I always have problems with people who talk about all they do or have done for kids in the name of baseball. Yardbird, your public profile on here is that "I am a full time professional baseball instructor for over 30 years." I can surmise that you take payment for imparting your knowledge to young players aspiring to great things in baseball.
Have you made millions?

The problem here is that I know first hand that Perfect Game has gone the extra mile for many, many young, talented baseball players who face financial obstacles. And out of respect to players and families, names cannot and should not be put out here.

In the past, when people like you attack PG, I would send him a PM and remind him that those of us who have associated with Perfect Game through the years understand his intent and what drives the company he leads. The guy's helped thousands of kids and that's the bottom line.

Yardbird, you've gotten lots of play here, so put your money where your mouth is...simply match the most recent donation I've made to the HSBBW. Contact Julie for the amount. Then at least your garbage won't have a free ride here, since money seems to be an issue for you.

Yardbird,
Out of curiosity, who were you refering to when you said "that that millionare PG"?

The PG event in Jupiter was the best run & had more talent than any event I've seen, comparing even to the CWS. PG runs the top scouting service in this country, helps thousands of kids get noticed and deserves whatever his hard work provides him. I don't understand that anyone thinks life is always fair or even could be. There is always someone with more talent, better grades, a better job or better health, bigger, faster stronger or whatever and it is not anyone's fault. Even if your goal is to make life fair surely the hungry, sick or homeless would be a better place to start than worrying about equal baseball opportunities for all.

Yardbird,

Did you mention "self absorbed"?

You need to actually read what others are saying. I did address the problem, at least what we do to help.

Perhaps the bigger problem is actually finding all those disadvantaged players. We try very hard to do just that. Personally I think that might be the best thing about travel baseball. More people out there looking for the best talent.

Just as important is creating interest in baseball at a very young age. We do some things that help, but there is much more that could be done.

I will say this... If a player has talent and is playing somewhere, we are likely to hear about him. If the player is not playing, not much anyone can do to find him.

BTW, as an example, we sponsor one of the largest High School Tournaments in the country. (San Diego Lions Club). There are many talented players that pop up during that tournament. But obviously they all are playing high school baseball.

I'm far from satisfied with what we have accomplished in helping deserving young players that have no means. We keep trying and have had some success! Please give us some good ideas that might help.

Sorry, I actually thought everything I wrote dealt with the subject. Though, sometimes it is hard to figure out just exactly what the real subject is. Is it off season baseball, or spending money, or training, or underprivilaged kids, or recruiting, videos or what?

The title of this thread...
TravelBall / Showcase teams, but at what cost?
It started by Coach Milburn talking about video and recruiting. It did turn into a travel ball vs Legion debate for awhile. I don't recall posting anything pertaining to anything but the discussion.

Anyway, after many months here is what Coach Milburn posted...

quote:

Great post, I believe there is too much emphasis on playing (especially year-around) and not enough time spent on getting proper instruction to become a better baseball player.

I also like to see kids play multiple sports which only makes them a better and more well-rounded athlete.

Yardbird, Other than stating "Coach Milburn you are the man and every thing you have stated is the sad truth even without our newly formed economy."

So what exactly are your thoughts on what Coach Milburn posted? Proper instruction? Multiple sports?

I'm certainly in favor of both those things. How about you?

For the record, I never called out anyone organization out in this thread. Also, I am no longer affiliated with our respective American Legion team locally (since 2007) nor am I a legionnaire.

This discussion was never intended to put one vs. another.

Furthermore, from what I have read and learned, Mr. Ford and PG is an outstanding organization.

There are a few avenues to pursue to gain exposure, the choice is up to you as there have been several examples shared within this discussion.

I want to thank everyone who have participated in this informative discussion in sharing their respective stories as I am sure it has helped many readers who were not informed.

IMHO, the more information that can be shared, the more informed the readers will become so that an educated decision can be made for their respective baseball career path which is OUTSTANDING community service by all involved here.

I must have missed something because I also assumed that he called PG a millionaire, and not so sure he should be calling PG self absorbed.

These guys are so used to being on the defense they really don't realize how insulting they can be. They can't get their points across so they need people of influence to see things their way and help their cause. I got the same thing with Kharma, as a concerned mom about young pitchers injuries, I should be up talking to MM and find out how to spread the good word.

You don't deserve what you have been dished out lately, and I know that you are a big man and handle things yourself and make the opposition usually look stupid, do not feel you should have to defend your business, regardless of how much or how little you have make.

Good post Baseballdad1228, I guess it goes along with the thought that since you don't have to pay to join this site, you can use up as much bandwidth as you want with garbage.

JMO

.

What? Bandwidth? Garbage?

.

Coach Milburn.

Not quite sure how effective video, dvd's etc are in promoting a player. IMO if this was my only means financialy I would send them out by the dozen, and hope for the best. While visiting with a number of coaches during the recruiting process there were always dozens of dvd's on their desk (not viewed) with 100's recieved throughout the year. The coaching staff were in a word, overwhelmed by the amount.

Regionally we have several very affordable travel teams, i.e ABD,SGVA that do a incredible job in getting kids excellent exposure playing against top talent. If you can play on their elite teams you'll play at the next level. These clubs are well respected amongst college coaches and are helpful in stretching recruiting budgets. Certainly this scenario is duplicated around the country. Locally speaking why would I plow through hundreds of doctored videos when I can spend the weekend watching players in action competing.

For those whom do not have a these type programs available. Honor Roll camps ,Stanford camp, Scout ball and P.G showcase events are, IMO a must especially if your a talented from a remote part of the country . Again. As a coach why would I plow through hundreds of doctored videos when I can spend the time watching players in action compete.

The boy played local travel ball, scout ball and attended the Stanford camp. Not for recruiting purposes but to get a feel for his competition outside our area and what living in a dorm might be like. Trust me nobody was interested in his 84 mph fb. he never participated in P.G showcase, was recruited and an early sign at the school of his choice

From a lo cal perspective any kid, who relied upon video exclusively is now out of baseball. The boys Hs team had a few kids who could have played at the next level,who relied upon HS bb and video are no longer playing.

Can it be pricey sure. You don't have to do everything. You pick and choose. And really if your priced out of a couple of camps, underwriting 4 years of college would probably be out of the question

I think this whole thread is a bit disgusting and am disappointed that it has been resurrected. I'm only going to have one comment on this thread and it is as follows:

From direct personal experience, I can assure everyone that Perfect Game finds ways to get deserving players opportunities that they cannot afford on their own. More than a few times, local kids (some of whom have played with me, but others not) have received opportunities through Perfect Game that their families could not afford to give them. I've personally seen them do this, amd been involved in some of the conversations that went into helping make it happen for some great kids, so I know for a fact that they do this.

Perfect Game is about so much more than money, despite what some of you think.

quote:

Originally posted by dswann:
Coach Milburn.

Not quite sure how effective video, dvd's etc are in promoting a player. IMO if this was my only means financialy I would send them out by the dozen, and hope for the best. While visiting with a number of coaches during the recruiting process there were always dozens of dvd's on their desk (not viewed) with 100's recieved throughout the year. The coaching staff were in a word, overwhelmed by the amount.

Regionally we have several very affordable travel teams, i.e ABD,SGVA that do a incredible job in getting kids excellent exposure playing against top talent. If you can play on their elite teams you'll play at the next level. These clubs are well respected amongst college coaches and are helpful in stretching recruiting budgets. Certainly this scenario is duplicated around the country. Locally speaking why would I plow through hundreds of doctored videos when I can spend the weekend watching players in action competing.

For those whom do not have a these type programs available. Honor Roll camps ,Stanford camp, Scout ball and P.G showcase events are, IMO a must especially if your a talented from a remote part of the country . Again. As a coach why would I plow through hundreds of doctored videos when I can spend the time watching players in action compete.

The boy played local travel ball, scout ball and attended the Stanford camp. Not for recruiting purposes but to get a feel for his competition outside our area and what living in a dorm might be like. Trust me nobody was interested in his 84 mph fb. he never participated in P.G showcase, was recruited and an early sign at the school of his choice

From a lo cal perspective any kid, who relied upon video exclusively is now out of baseball. The boys Hs team had a few kids who could have played at the next level,who relied upon HS bb and video are no longer playing.

Can it be pricey sure. You don't have to do everything. You pick and choose. And really if your priced out of a couple of camps, underwriting 4 years of college would probably be out of the question

For the record, I never stated one should not be a member of any team (showcase/travel/legion/SrLeague or whatever team) and just send out DVD's and/or video clips.

With today's technology, I think DVD's are a waste of time and inconvenient to the recipient. Youtube and other video web hosting sites work better. All one needs to do is e-mail and include video link address and it's right their in the coach's in-box.

I for one, did not state that PG is not an avenue for anyone to pursue. Anyone can assume there are some organizations out there that are all about the money. Why do some think this discussion is here to downgrade Perfect Game? If I made a negative comment against PG, please quote me?

Bottom-line, from my perspective, players can market themselves to hopefully get the attention that will draw more of an in-depth look.

For an introduction, an e-mail with complete bio along with video clip is an outstanding and very inexpensive way to get your name into someone's in-box.

quote:

Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
I think this whole thread is a bit disgusting and am disappointed that it has been resurrected. I'm only going to have one comment on this thread and it is as follows:

From direct personal experience, I can assure everyone that Perfect Game finds ways to get deserving players opportunities that they cannot afford on their own. More than a few times, local kids (some of whom have played with me, but others not) have received opportunities through Perfect Game that their families could not afford to give them. I've personally seen them do this, amd been involved in some of the conversations that went into helping make it happen for some great kids, so I know for a fact that they do this.

Perfect Game is about so much more than money, despite what some of you think.

I couldn't agree more. My personal experience in dealing with PG and with Jerry has been such that I now hold the opinion that what the baseball world needs is more people like Jerry and more organizations like Perfect Game. First class all the way - and frankly far above needing to defend himself on a slimy thread like this one.

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:

quote:

Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
I think this whole thread is a bit disgusting and am disappointed that it has been resurrected. I'm only going to have one comment on this thread and it is as follows:

From direct personal experience, I can assure everyone that Perfect Game finds ways to get deserving players opportunities that they cannot afford on their own. More than a few times, local kids (some of whom have played with me, but others not) have received opportunities through Perfect Game that their families could not afford to give them. I've personally seen them do this, amd been involved in some of the conversations that went into helping make it happen for some great kids, so I know for a fact that they do this.

Perfect Game is about so much more than money, despite what some of you think.

I couldn't agree more. My personal experience in dealing with PG and with Jerry has been such that I now hold the opinion that what the baseball world needs is more people like Jerry and more organizations like Perfect Game. First class all the way - and frankly far above needing to defend himself on a slimy thread like this one.

I don't know why this thread was brought back after nine months? There are a number of ways for our kids to get noticed, and everyone has a different opinion. I don't know Jerry personally, but I can tell you that I've sent him a PM a couple of times. He answered my questions immediately,even while he was busy in Georgia during the WWBA Championships. I know that he's done the same for several other members on this site! He truly cares about the game and trying to help kids get to the next level. Jerry has admitted numerous times that PG isn't right for everyone. My son participated in PG events, college camps, and other showcase events. The PG event/showcases were by far the best run showcases and tournaments my son played in. As for getting the best bang for your buck...get your son on a scout ball team in the fall. The costs are generally minimal, and there a number of college coaches and scouts that attend the games. Whether it's scout ball, Perfect Game, direct videos to colleges, or personal websites...if it works and helps you get to the next level, Jerry Ford would be happy for you! I don't think it's necessary for Jerry to continuously defend himself or PG...the majority of us respect him and appreciates everything he does to try and help our kids!

Is there anything way to figure out how many views this thread has?