Thanks for clearing that up.
PGStaff posted:
<snip> But in the end, what they say isn't what they do. They always take the best player they can get, with no regard for how many sports they participate in. <snip>
And that is the truth.
TPM posted:I agree with CM, coaches want winners. Its my opinion that football separates the men from the boys, most cannot play two sports because it takes a special player to make adjustments.
Most players need tof chose because they more than likely need to, period. But most 2 sport athletes who really are true 2 sport athletes don't have to.
The baseball coach will wait quietly on the side until the player chooses his preferred course. Most don't have that option.
Really? First of all, I'm not sure what that has to do with whether someone can play baseball well or not. There are a lot of Superstars in the MLB that have never played football. Just playing football in HS doesn't guarantee anyone to be a man. In fact there are more kids on the sideline standing around the whole game then there are that actually play. I played 2 sports in HS and College, there were better players than me in both teams that only played 1 sport. I never got hurt playing baseball, but tore my ACL in football in college. I think you're way off base.
It's a mystery to me how the Dominican, Venezuelan, Japanese, Cuban, etc. MLB and Milb players can even compete on the mound, at the plate, or in the field, without ever, in their entire lives, playing a single minute of football.
Texas 2 Sons posted:TPM posted:I agree with CM, coaches want winners. Its my opinion that football separates the men from the boys, most cannot play two sports because it takes a special player to make adjustments.
Most players need tof chose because they more than likely need to, period. But most 2 sport athletes who really are true 2 sport athletes don't have to.
The baseball coach will wait quietly on the side until the player chooses his preferred course. Most don't have that option.
Really? First of all, I'm not sure what that has to do with whether someone can play baseball well or not. There are a lot of Superstars in the MLB that have never played football. Just playing football in HS doesn't guarantee anyone to be a man. In fact there are more kids on the sideline standing around the whole game then there are that actually play. I played 2 sports in HS and College, there were better players than me in both teams that only played 1 sport. I never got hurt playing baseball, but tore my ACL in football in college. I think you're way off base.
I wasnt talking about the kids sitting around on the sidelines.
The fact that you hurt yourself playing baseball and not in football has nothing to do with this discussion. Now if you played on an elite baseball team and came from a 6A class elite football program that you are playing a major role on, you have seperated yourself from the rest of the herd, and, as a coach, he is after that guy to play for whatever sport he is recruiting him for.
JMO
TPM posted:Texas 2 Sons posted:TPM posted:I agree with CM, coaches want winners. Its my opinion that football separates the men from the boys, most cannot play two sports because it takes a special player to make adjustments.
Most players need tof chose because they more than likely need to, period. But most 2 sport athletes who really are true 2 sport athletes don't have to.
The baseball coach will wait quietly on the side until the player chooses his preferred course. Most don't have that option.
Really? First of all, I'm not sure what that has to do with whether someone can play baseball well or not. There are a lot of Superstars in the MLB that have never played football. Just playing football in HS doesn't guarantee anyone to be a man. In fact there are more kids on the sideline standing around the whole game then there are that actually play. I played 2 sports in HS and College, there were better players than me in both teams that only played 1 sport. I never got hurt playing baseball, but tore my ACL in football in college. I think you're way off base.
I wasnt talking about the kids sitting around on the sidelines.
The fact that you hurt yourself playing baseball and not in football has nothing to do with this discussion. Now if you played on an ELETE baseball and came from a 6A class ELETE football program you have seperated yourself from the rest of the herd and as a coach, you are after that guy to play for your sport.
JMO
From what you wrote earlier, you never stated your son played football. In fact it looks like he only played baseball in HS. If so, I'm not sure why you are arguing so hard for 2 sport athletes, especially those who played football in HS. You make a big assumption that those who are on the other side of the discussion have son's who only play baseball, I would guess you would be wrong.
My 2019, at a 5A school in Texas played baseball and basketball his freshman year (we moved in the middle of football). This past year he played football(starting QB, played CB) and baseball. Decided to not play basketball because he wanted a shot on varsity baseball(which he started at short the whole season and pitched), and the seasons overlap. This year he is considering only playing baseball. First because one of the best baseball programs in Texas is interested in him, and second because he broke his left ankle last game of football last year and had surgery with 3 screws put in to hold bone in place. Took him 7-8 months to fully get healthy, and he doesn't want to take on the extra injury risk football brings.
Now to your argument, does playing multi sports make him a better athlete? No, his athleticism allows him to play at a high level in multiple sports. Does football make you tougher? Sure. Does it make him more competitive? Absolutely not! He's either competitive or he's not, it's in his make-up not the sports he plays. Lastly, did playing these other sports make him a better baseball player? No! His ability to field the ball well affords him the opportunity to play short. His ability to hit consistently and with power affords him to hit 3rd in the lineup. His ability to throw 87-90 with a great slider gets him time on the mound. His competitive drive along with these tools, helps him stand out among his peers in front of scouts and coaches.
Whether he decides to play football or not, will be his decision and it won't be based on if some college coach likes him or not for playing football. I whole heartedly agree that all kids who like sports should play everyone they want to when they are younger. Play for fun, play to learn different things, play to find out what you're really good at. And if down the road, they choose to focus on just 1 sport..great. If they choose to play multiple sports, then that's great also.
I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
My son didnt play another sport in HS. He wanted to work in the off season. But my point was that he played all types of sports and I believe that made him a better athlete.
I am not arguing any point. I am simply am stating an opinion from what was told to me from a power 5 head coach, probably the best in the country.
hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
Due to fall baseball and spring football if you research you will find often the athlete established himself in the primary sport before taking on the secondary. On tv you're only told he plays two sports. Often it's not the case freshman and sometimes, soph year.
hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
That's a totally different question. I did it in a time (30 yrs ago) when you still had some separation between the 2 seasons, not so much anymore. Also I was at a smaller private school which I think also helped. The bigger the school, the more difficult I would think this would be. The head football coach at my son's school did both for the 1st 2 years in college, but the football coach told him in his junior season that if he wanted to start at QB that he would have to quit baseball. He chose to quit football instead, and ended up getting drafted after his junior year as a pitcher. Now a days it's very difficult to be a 2 way player in baseball because of the extra time required to work on things individually. I would think it's even more so to play 2 different sports. Obviously your son is very talented to have that option. I would think the only persons that can really give you an answer are the specific coaches at the school or schools he's interested in. Goodluck and I would love to hear what he chooses.
I think it'd be very very tough to play Football & Baseball for a bigtime Power 5 school. Missing Spring Football practice, except for the very elite, could put a player behind. Same with missing Fall Ball Baseball
Texas 2 Sons posted:hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
That's a totally different question. I did it in a time (30 yrs ago) when you still had some separation between the 2 seasons, not so much anymore. Also I was at a smaller private school which I think also helped. The bigger the school, the more difficult I would think this would be. The head football coach at my son's school did both for the 1st 2 years in college, but the football coach told him in his junior season that if he wanted to start at QB that he would have to quit baseball. He chose to quit football instead, and ended up getting drafted after his junior year as a pitcher. Now a days it's very difficult to be a 2 way player in baseball because of the extra time required to work on things individually. I would think it's even more so to play 2 different sports. Obviously your son is very talented to have that option. I would think the only persons that can really give you an answer are the specific coaches at the school or schools he's interested in. Goodluck and I would love to hear what he chooses.
Thanks, TX!
I did as well many moons ago as well but agree that it's totally different now. It's not easy playing multiples in high school so college would be even more difficult.
Every sport offers something year round and I think it forces kids to choose one a lot of the times.
Obviously, football is a fall sport but you have spring football and summer workouts with 7on7 and other camps mixed in there.
Baseball is a spring high school sport, summer travel sport with lots of big showcases in the fall.
I know a kid who just quit football because he had to choose between the start of high school practice (yes, football practice started this week) and the AAU Basketball Nationals.
As you said, I think the coaches lack of or willingness to work together is the key ingredient to it working out.
My great grandfather was a three sport athlete in college. He played football, ran indoor track and played baseball. Football practice started a week before the season. A week before practice he received a letter from the coach at his parents home. The coach advised him to run a mile each day before arriving and cut back on smoking for the sesson. He was class of 1890.
Russell Wilson played both football & Baseball from 2008-2010 for NC State. Obviously Wilson is a truly elite athlete
hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
NOW, you tell us ?? 
cabbagedad posted:hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
NOW, you tell us ??
And this from a guy who only played football in college - thanks Heath - LOL
RJM posted:My great grandfather was a three sport athlete in college. He played football, ran indoor track and played baseball. Football practice started a week before the season. A week before practice he received a letter from the coach at his parents home. The coach advised him to run a mile each day before arriving and cut back on smoking for the sesson. He was class of 1890.
Cool. I would pay for pics of an indoor track from the 1800's. Don't think I've seen one from that era.
cabbagedad posted:hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
NOW, you tell us ??
LoL
2forU posted:cabbagedad posted:hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
NOW, you tell us ??
And this from a guy who only played football in college - thanks Heath - LOL
:-)
Two things that I absolutely believe in and I seriously doubt will ever change my mind on
1. Football offensive lineman drills made me excel as a catcher in baseball. Working my feet and creating agility from those drills made me how good I was behind the plate when it came to blocking and footwork on throwing
2. If high school football goes away then you can chalk up about 90% of high school sports to being gone as well. Basketball will stay because it makes money. Baseball and soccer will survive as long as they are good and people pay to go watch them. Cross Country, Track, Tennis, Golf and sports like that will be gone unless they do a lot of fundraising
Football may die a slow death but it still has a 10 + year life span to it.
PGStaff posted:We see a ton of outstanding baseball players every year. We get information from them. One of the questions is do you play other sports. To me, there is no correlation between one sport and multisport players as to who the best prospects are.
Even if someone believed there was an advantage, which there might very well be, I would venture a guess that at least half of all the players in the Big leagues played baseball only in HS. If I am correct, that means the other half were multisport athletes in HS.
I am talking about organized actual HS sports. Almost every kid will get involved in other sports and activities at times, without actually participating on a HS team.
I know this has been a topic lately, but when we are at some of these big events we see College Recruiters salivating over player they see. Believe me, they could care less how many sports that kid plays... they desperately want him!
I mean who do you want playing shortstop, Francisco Lindor or some multisport athlete? You want Yadi catching or some tougher multisport athlete? It goes both ways... You want Mike Trout in the outfield or someone that only played baseball? I wonder if Mike Trout would be any good had he not played football?
So to me this whole topic about multisport athletes vs those that play just one sport is rediculous. It has been proven, over and over, that the best players have done it either way. Unless you are talking about the NBA. That is where you probably will find the most single sport athletes.
Truth is even if somehow we could prove there was a big benefit to playing multiple sports, it will never trump talent in any single sport. Some are among the most talented at more than one sport, are we to believe they wouldn't be that talented if they only played one of those sports?
That said, I do like multisport athletes and I do believe each sport can teach different things. If kids want to play other sports they should. I have gone to football games and basketball games to watch a baseball prospect play. It can be helpful at times to see how they compete and how they act and how athletic they are. So I get why scouts and coaches might say what they say. But in the end, what they say isn't what they do. They always take the best player they can get, with no regard for how many sports they participate in. After all, they are recruiting or drafting baseball players.
Lastly, I do think younger kids should play just about everything they enjoy. I wish they all played baseball, too. But this fallacy that someone is a better baseball player because he played three sports doesn't pass the test. So if you are a great athlete and enjoy other sports, that's great. If you just play one sport and you become one of the best at it, that's great too. Only thing I will say is there definitely is an advantage in being a great athlete and that is true in every sport.
Regarding the 50% of current MLB players that you guess were multi-sport athletes in HS, I have to ask, "Do they play football at the baseball academies in the Dominican Republic ?"
I think parents are going to be the death of youth football. I don't think the game will disappear, but kids will start playing tackle much, much later.
I mentioned to my kids once that boxing is very physically tiring, and they asked "how do you know?" I explained that we did boxing (with headgear) in PE in junior high -- my kids looked at me like I was crazy. But in the 70s no one thought twice about something like that. Now the PE teacher would be fired. In 40 years, will that be the case with football?
ADBONO,
No they don't play football at the academies. They specialize in baseball, however some do throw the football in training. And per capita they produce many more Major League players than anyone. That is exactly my point!
Maybe they are hungrier due to poverty. Whatever the case, most all of them specialize in one sport... Baseball.
The infielders there are thousands and thousands of groundballs ahead of most infielders in the USA. No rocket science involved in that.
Before Dominicans get to the baseball academies to play one sport many of them also played futbol. There's also a lot of track, basketball and volleyball in the country.
RJM posted:Before Dominicans get to the baseball academies to play one sport many of them also played futbol. There's also a lot of track, basketball and volleyball in the country.
Even if that were true -- and I'm not sure many of them played futbol on anything more than a recreational level -- they are signed at age 16, equivalent to a high school sophomore. And it's all baseball from that point forward.
hshuler posted:I appreciate all the responses.
I wasn't trying to start a fight like I occasionally do on the Tebow thread. j/k :-)
I was thinking about it from the playing two sports in college angle. I don't think any college coach really cares whether a player plays multiple high school sports but would they be willing to share a player in college?
I was told D1 teams don't share players well. D2 teams share fairly well if the kid is a PO. If the kid plays Football and is a hitter for baseball then that doesn't usually go well and Football usually takes over as the sole sport by second year because the kid just can't get the reps in to maintain his level of skill in the batters box.
I don't think any coach likes it when an athlete plays another sport. They might like multi sports athletes that played multiple sports till puberty and thus are well coordinated and agile but they don't love it when another sport interferes with their team.
I have always preached a middle ground stance. I think year round travel ball and specialisation at age 11 is stupid and it is much better for a kid to play multiple sports but I don't think playing multiple high school sports is the way to go.
I think the best way is to play multiple sports till age 14 or so and then pick one sport and focus on it in high school.
There is an occasional aaron judge or joe mauer who dominates multiple high school sports but at high school academics and one sport is already enough.
A middle ground between specialized year round (or 9-10 months a year) travel ball as a pre teen and playing two sports till hs graduation does exist.
You are all forgetting one thing, the player doesnt make the decision the coaches do. If the player can handle both, that's great, if not he knows what he has to do.
On the college level, it's usually the elite athlete that can play footbal and baseball at the D1 level. These recruits usually committ early, so they don't have to give up either game in HS.
But once again, that choice usually belongs to the coaches and they would have to have a good relationship to agree upon the player handling both.
So getting back to the OP and Coach Cutcliffs comments, I do agree with comments that kids should be exposed to as many sports as possible. Particularly interesting is quotes from Archie Manning, about quitting on putting mental pressure on kids in 8th grade to earn a scholarship. He says if you are good enough things will happen, but kids should be playing for three joy of competition.
What I got from the article, was about letting kids decide what works for them, instead of us as parents deciding. Making your own decisions makes you mentally stronger.
JMO
Dominican baseball players specialize in baseball. They make up around 25% of MLB. What % of basketball, soccer, or any other sport do Dominican boys account for? Many Latin players both amateur and professional play baseball year around. People can debate whether that is good or bad, it's just the way it is.
I do believe if kids want to participate in multiple sports because they enjoy it, that's great.
I see advantages both ways. Playing other sports can teach certain things that can convert to baseball while giving a break from concentrating on one sport. Specializing in one sport allows for more practice, more repetitions, which are things that help people improve at anything they choose to do. The more you play the piano, the better piano player you become. Of course, you risk getting sick of playing the piano all the time and might give it up.
Btw are there still guys playing two d1 sports? Hs is doable but even one d1 sport and studying is a big commitment. Can't imagine one doing two sports in these days.
The 2 that jump at me at Jamesi Winston and Brandon Mcilwain.
Winston obviously had great football and the NFL thing seems to be working out quite well for him. In baseball while not being a bad player he wasn't near the elite level or even close.
Mcilwain has all the tools to be stud but got beat out for the QB job last fall and then transferred to Cal this spring. I guess time will tell if he is able to do both but I think the odds are pretty long against on him being successful at both.
Two guys who played two sports at a high D1 level and were also very good students. Jeff Samardzidja and Pat Connaughton. Both from Notre Dame and both played D1 baseball as a Pitcher. Everyone knows Samaradzija's story and Connaughton is giving the NBA a try but I believe the Orioles still hold his rights.
It is possible to do both and be successful in the classroom. You have to be extremely disciplined and have programs that want you to succeed in both. It also helps to have a Pitchers workout schedule as opposed to a position players.
I didn't realize that Jameis Winston played baseball, but I just looked him up and PG has him ranked nationally as #48. That isn't an elite level player? Was that poor projection?
Toby Gerhart played both baseball and football at Stanford. Obviously he was the runner-up for the Hesiman, but he was also a real prospect as a baseball player -- here is his baseball and HS info from his Stanford Bio page -- in HS he was the Gatorade national player of the year in football and a Top 50 baseball player (per Baseball America; PG had him at #57).
BASEBALL: Two-sport star has logged three seasons on the diamond for Stanford, combining to hit .275 (119-for-433) with 24 doubles, three triples, 16 home runs and 68 RBI in 141 games (105 starts)...is also a perfect 12-for-12 on career stolen base attempts...has provided the Cardinal with excellent outfield defense, committing just one error in 213 total chances for a .995 fielding percentage...tough, hard-nosed player has been hit by 25 pitches over his first three seasons on The Farm...in fact, he missed a portion of his 2007 freshman campaign with a broken right forearm suffered when he was hit by a pitch in mid-February...enjoyed a productive 2009 season, setting career highs for batting average (.288), hits (57), doubles (12), triples (2), home runs (7), RBI (35), on-base percentage (.392) and steals (7)...tied for ninth in the Pac-10 with a career-best 46 runs scored, while tying for third with five sacrifice flies...batted .322 (48-for-149) with all seven homers and 32 RBI over his final 40 games...helped the Cardinal in its run to the 2008 College World Series by earning Stanford Regional All-Tournament Team honors...went 5-for-9 with three RBI in a pair of elimination-game victories over Pepperdine...turned in a 3-for-4 performance with three runs scored and a solo home run in Stanford's 16-5 victory over Florida State in the College World Series opener...also added an RBI-double in an 8-3, elimination game triumph over Miami.
HIGH SCHOOL AND PERSONAL DATA: One of the top two-sport stars in the California prep ranks at Norco (Calif.) High School...broke the California High School career rushing record by more than 1,000 yards while earning a reputation as one of the top running back prospects in the country...finished his high school career with 9,662 yards, which ranked as the best all-time mark in California and the third best career mark in the nation...rushed for 3,233 yards and scored 39 touchdowns as a senior while leading Norco to the Division V Southern Section championship...named Gatorade's High School Player of the Year...also earned prep All-America honors by PrepStar, SuperPrep, EA Sports and Parade Magazine...named Mr. Football 2005 as the state's player of the year by Cal-Hi Sports...was ranked as the 26th-best running back in the country and No. 27 recruit in California by SuperPrep.com...rated the seventh-best fullback in the country by Rivals.com...added first team all-state, all-CIF Southern Section, CIF Southern Section Player of the Year, CIF Division V Player of the Year, Los Angeles Times Player of the Year and conference player and athlete of the year honors as a senior...batted .549 as a junior and earned all-state, all-CIF Southern Section, all-league and all-county accolades...included among the Top 50 high school prospects in the nation by Baseball America...also earned three letters in basketball...member of the California Scholastic Federation...majoring in management, science and engineering.
There was an article that a saw a few months ago about a couple of football players that were excelling in the diamond. I can't remember if it was Baseball America, D1 Baseball or another publication but will share when/if I find it.
JLC posted:I didn't realize that Jameis Winston played baseball, but I just looked him up and PG has him ranked nationally as #48. That isn't an elite level player? Was that poor projection?
Number 48 in the country, number 10 outfielder, and a PG score of 10 sounds like excellent projection. They also included a note on his account:
"Big Time QB prospect. Serious baseball tools. Outstanding at many PG events. PG All American Game"
Edited to say, yes I agree he was elite. He even made 1st team all American....but obviously he was better at football.
Yes, he looked to have been very talented in baseball. My comment was a bit tongue in cheek.
There is no question that a great baseball player would be capable of being good at other sports. A good athlete is good at athletics.
We have had many Rivals top ranked football players at PG events. Most all are really good baseball prospects, but most are better football prospects. Then there are some, like Archie Bradley and Carl Crawford that go baseball.
I wish all those that stand out at football or basketball, would play baseball. But many of the best in those sports specialize in just that sport. Seems like each year more HS athletes are playing just one sport. In the old days it seemed like everyone played more than one sport in HS.
IMO there is no correct answer to which way is best. Play one sport or more than one sport... There are advantages and disadvantages either way.
PGStaff posted:There is no question that a great baseball player would be capable of being good at other sports. A good athlete is good at athletics.
......
Well, PG, I sorta agree but have you been watching the ESPN highlights of the newly drafted NBA players trying to throw out first pitches at game all across the country?
