Scorekeeper..At first what you said came off as a little rude, but after reading a couple times over I realized what you were saying. No hard feelings here, lifes too short to get mad about petty things like this. I'm a pretty relaxed layed back guy and don't usually take things too seriously so feel free to use sarcasm towards me and around me. I speak sarcasm too haha... I look forward to talking to you in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later.
KayMart4,
Ya know what I’d love to see for a discussion group? A place were players were the only posters.
When my son was playing, for whatever reason, I was pretty much given player status, rather than parent/coach/scorekeeper. I loved being around the kids, and quite honestly learned a lot more than I ever imparted.
Having the status of a-fly-on-the-wall gave me quite a different look at the way players really think than most adults believe they think. The guys knew I would never rat them out unless I though there were in some sort of real trouble, and you wouldn’t believe the things I heard!
I think its safe to say, a great deal of the time, players tend to talk in clichés and say things they think the adults want to hear, rather than what they really feel like saying. I think that’s too bad because more often than not, the adults are ready willing and able to do whatever they can to help, but aren’t given the chance. The result is, a lot of wasted time and effort!
I really believe having a bulletin board where players could exchange thoughts without the interference of us old, wise adults would really be informative to the adults. Unfortunately, I don’t know of too many adults who can stop themselves from offering up all that knowledge they have, even if unasked for or wanted.
Ya know what I’d love to see for a discussion group? A place were players were the only posters.
When my son was playing, for whatever reason, I was pretty much given player status, rather than parent/coach/scorekeeper. I loved being around the kids, and quite honestly learned a lot more than I ever imparted.
Having the status of a-fly-on-the-wall gave me quite a different look at the way players really think than most adults believe they think. The guys knew I would never rat them out unless I though there were in some sort of real trouble, and you wouldn’t believe the things I heard!
I think its safe to say, a great deal of the time, players tend to talk in clichés and say things they think the adults want to hear, rather than what they really feel like saying. I think that’s too bad because more often than not, the adults are ready willing and able to do whatever they can to help, but aren’t given the chance. The result is, a lot of wasted time and effort!
I really believe having a bulletin board where players could exchange thoughts without the interference of us old, wise adults would really be informative to the adults. Unfortunately, I don’t know of too many adults who can stop themselves from offering up all that knowledge they have, even if unasked for or wanted.
Gentlemen and Ladies:
This link will lead you to the latest study and recomendations on pitch counts done by the American Sports Medicine Institute. This is the place where the first Tommy John surgery was performed.
http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/research/youthbaseball.htm
This link will lead you to the latest study and recomendations on pitch counts done by the American Sports Medicine Institute. This is the place where the first Tommy John surgery was performed.
http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/research/youthbaseball.htm
Ladies and Gentlemen:
This link will lead you to the "official" USA Baseball Medical & Safety Advisory Committee recommendations on pitch count for each age group. The also address in a general way injury prevention.
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usab/genrel...f/youth-injuries.pdf
This link will lead you to the "official" USA Baseball Medical & Safety Advisory Committee recommendations on pitch count for each age group. The also address in a general way injury prevention.
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usab/genrel...f/youth-injuries.pdf
Scorekeeper- That's what the dugout and locker room is for 
To amplify on igball's post of a while back...
Tom House's Pitch Count Recommendations are just part of the story. He also advises:
-No start greater than 7 innings
-Pitchers stay off mound between outings
-No position play on a day of start
-Minimize swings if high pitch count
-etc., etc.
...plus guidelines on bullpens (30-45 pitches, never at Max Intensity), pitching rotations in tournaments, and much more including recovery timelines and workout tactics between outings/bullpens. It is an overall strategic plan devised to avoid stress related injuries due to overload in pitching intensity, load, and duration.
Tom House's Pitch Count Recommendations are just part of the story. He also advises:
-No start greater than 7 innings
-Pitchers stay off mound between outings
-No position play on a day of start
-Minimize swings if high pitch count
-etc., etc.
...plus guidelines on bullpens (30-45 pitches, never at Max Intensity), pitching rotations in tournaments, and much more including recovery timelines and workout tactics between outings/bullpens. It is an overall strategic plan devised to avoid stress related injuries due to overload in pitching intensity, load, and duration.
quote:Originally posted by GasMe:
Tom House's Pitch Count Recommendations are just part of the story. He also advises:
Nothing against House, but every “authority”, self-proclaimed or other that I’ve seen advocate pitch counts, also advise much more for the maximum safety.
From my area:
1)kid who had "pro" written all over him. They pitched his arm off in PONY, travel teams, Jr. Olympics. 16 tore his labrum. Never pitched again. He's now working at Sears.
2) Gifted kid was coached by daddy, who had him pitch then catch all the time in youth baseball. At 14, he tore his labrum. Never pitched again.
3) Coach's son, same thing, over pitched him, no pitch counts, elbow surgery at 14. Never pitched again.
4) ANOTHER coach's son, same thing (do they ever learn??) kid was dinky, junior year his HS coach over-threw him. Last game of the season he threw 126 pitches, just so the coach and his 4th place team could make CIF, they did and were slaughtered their first game. Kid's senior HS year, didn't pitch at all - bad shoulder.
5) Kid with a UC scholarship, overused in youth and HS ball. Ruined his arm had elbow surgery in his senior HS year. Bye-bye college pitching.
6) kid who's dad taught him to be a junk-ball pitcher all through PONY and HS. Just finished his junior year, and on a club team, two weeks ago, tore his labrum. Leading up to that tear, he complained to the coach of his arm hurting, coach threw him anyway. Buh-bye pitching career.
Two other studs in our area, same thing, buh-bye pitching. No wonder there's a shortage of good MLB pitchers - they're all being ruined in youth baseball.
1)kid who had "pro" written all over him. They pitched his arm off in PONY, travel teams, Jr. Olympics. 16 tore his labrum. Never pitched again. He's now working at Sears.
2) Gifted kid was coached by daddy, who had him pitch then catch all the time in youth baseball. At 14, he tore his labrum. Never pitched again.
3) Coach's son, same thing, over pitched him, no pitch counts, elbow surgery at 14. Never pitched again.
4) ANOTHER coach's son, same thing (do they ever learn??) kid was dinky, junior year his HS coach over-threw him. Last game of the season he threw 126 pitches, just so the coach and his 4th place team could make CIF, they did and were slaughtered their first game. Kid's senior HS year, didn't pitch at all - bad shoulder.
5) Kid with a UC scholarship, overused in youth and HS ball. Ruined his arm had elbow surgery in his senior HS year. Bye-bye college pitching.
6) kid who's dad taught him to be a junk-ball pitcher all through PONY and HS. Just finished his junior year, and on a club team, two weeks ago, tore his labrum. Leading up to that tear, he complained to the coach of his arm hurting, coach threw him anyway. Buh-bye pitching career.
Two other studs in our area, same thing, buh-bye pitching. No wonder there's a shortage of good MLB pitchers - they're all being ruined in youth baseball.
my perspective on pitch counts is this.
[coming from a pitchers point of view]
I think pitch counts are good to use as a guildline as to the length of an outing for a pitcher, however, there are a lot of other factors of a pitchers fatique than how many pitches they are throwing in this current game.
-How much did the pitcher throw the day before, and the day previous?
-How long did the pitcher take to warm up before the game, and how extensive was his pre game warm up in the bullpen.
I stress the # of pitches in a bullpen, because, although not as stressful, throwing in a bullpen to warm up, is still throwing.
-How many pitches did the pitcher throw when warming up before the inning starts?
-Over the course of 5 innings, and additional 25-30 pitches can be thrown, that arn't charted. And for those pitchers who have some intelligence, they use their warm up tosses with a reason, not just to throw the ball down the plate.
Also, In my opinion, the coach should spend enough time with their pitchers to know when they don't have their stuff anymore. Whether it be, they throw a few balls and fatique seems to be setting in, or they have lost a bit of juice on their ball. Flat curves etc.
Also, a big factor is facial expressions, and body language after the pitch, does the pitcher feel soreness, are they gritting their teeth.
So many factors to include, so I don't feel that hitting the sacred 100 pitch century mark is the cutoff at all. Why not have a pitcher throw 130 if they have a rubber arm. And if a pitcher is tired, don't say, Oh, I'll let him throw 50 pitches. Because by the time he is ready to throw, he is almost at 100.
DH
[coming from a pitchers point of view]
I think pitch counts are good to use as a guildline as to the length of an outing for a pitcher, however, there are a lot of other factors of a pitchers fatique than how many pitches they are throwing in this current game.
-How much did the pitcher throw the day before, and the day previous?
-How long did the pitcher take to warm up before the game, and how extensive was his pre game warm up in the bullpen.
I stress the # of pitches in a bullpen, because, although not as stressful, throwing in a bullpen to warm up, is still throwing.
-How many pitches did the pitcher throw when warming up before the inning starts?
-Over the course of 5 innings, and additional 25-30 pitches can be thrown, that arn't charted. And for those pitchers who have some intelligence, they use their warm up tosses with a reason, not just to throw the ball down the plate.
Also, In my opinion, the coach should spend enough time with their pitchers to know when they don't have their stuff anymore. Whether it be, they throw a few balls and fatique seems to be setting in, or they have lost a bit of juice on their ball. Flat curves etc.
Also, a big factor is facial expressions, and body language after the pitch, does the pitcher feel soreness, are they gritting their teeth.
So many factors to include, so I don't feel that hitting the sacred 100 pitch century mark is the cutoff at all. Why not have a pitcher throw 130 if they have a rubber arm. And if a pitcher is tired, don't say, Oh, I'll let him throw 50 pitches. Because by the time he is ready to throw, he is almost at 100.
DH
AA pro ball limits all their pitchers to 40-pitches. That should tell us all something.
quote:Originally posted by Rico:
AA pro ball limits all their pitchers to 40-pitches. That should tell us all something.
Are you talking about AA minor leagues for major league teams? If so, that's definitely not true. MLB organizations generally have pitch limits that the org sets down through the various levels, but these limits vary from org to org. There are certainly no league-wide restrictions on pitches, and the organizational restrictions would almost certainly be higher than 40 pitches for a healthy pitcher.
quote:Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:quote:Originally posted by Rico:
AA pro ball limits all their pitchers to 40-pitches. That should tell us all something.
Are you talking about AA minor leagues for major league teams? If so, that's definitely not true. MLB organizations generally have pitch limits that the org sets down through the various levels, but these limits vary from org to org. There are certainly no league-wide restrictions on pitches, and the organizational restrictions would almost certainly be higher than 40 pitches for a healthy pitcher.
That is true, no such thing as a limit to 40 pitches. Especailly in AA.
One important factor. I have seen numerous times when young pitchers have been told to warm up on their own. If a coach were present, and the warm up done correctly, the coach can see if the pitcher is struggling with certain pitches and make adjustments in the bullpen, instead of making them make adjustments on the mound. This helps to improve count level before it gets out of control.
JMO.
