I heard that not all D1 programs are fully funded (11.7), Holy Cross (0), Davidson (6) etc…
Is there a list out there? I looked and couldn’t find one but I can’t find the milk in the fridge either.
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It's a good question, I assume CBI would have the best answer. But you can add Patriot League, NEC, Ivy to that list.
My guess would be that there are more with less than 11.7 than there are with 11.7.
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I knew about the Ivies. Newbie here, what’s CBI?
Unless things have changed in the last few years the information on how funded teams are is not publicly available.
@PABaseball posted:
Yeah, we shy away from even trying to figure this out. @Rick at Informed Athlete would probably be closer this level of detail.
Our response is "Be a stud in the classroom then the school can use their other means to get you $$$"
As @RJM indicated, I'm not aware of any resource where you can find the funding for athletic scholarships listed separately for each sport. You can find the total athletic scholarship funding for men's and women's sports at each university, but I've not seen a site that lists each sport.
The "Equity in Athletics" website from the Department of Education (www.ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/) does provide some overall information about each departments finances if one wants to do a general comparison of one school to another, but even then, the data is only as good as the info submitted by each school.
To use Davidson as an example of how questionable some of the data can appear, Recruiting Expenses for the July '20-June '21 reporting period are shown as $63,626 total for all men's teams.
I don't have any personal knowledge about the Davidson athletic department, but I suspect that $63,000 doesn't even cover the Recruiting Expenses for Football, let alone all of the men's teams.
This is old info but back in 2017-2018 I asked the recruiting coordinator at a mid major D1 in the midwest that very question as they had just had their funding reduced from 11.7 to 11.2 or something along those lines. He told me that around 1/2 of the schools are more or less fully funded (11+) so that would be around 145 +- or so if that still holds true today. I would think that with all that has happened the past several years that number may be even lower now.
@TravD posted:I heard that not all D1 programs are fully funded (11.7), Holy Cross (0), Davidson (6) etc…
Is there a list out there? I looked and couldn’t find one but I can’t find the milk in the fridge either.
Your best resource is this website, and word of mouth. Back when my son was being recruited (10+ years ago) there were known D1 programs that were not fully funded including Georgetown, Villanova, Davidson and William & Mary. The W&M Coach (at the time) indicated to us that they were becoming fully funded. So, that may have changed.
The Ivys are self-funded, and they hit up their alumni every year...you can set your clock to it. It has become a running joke with my son. Funding is a major part of an Ivy coaches job. I've even heard comments (by those in the know) that raising funds is the most important aspect to an Ivy coaches job.
This topic is an opportunity for you and your son to better understand a program. When the recruiting gets serious (you know an offer is coming), you'll need to understand this and how it personally effects your wallet. I wouldn't judge a program by its funding until the recruiting gets serious.
As always, JMO.
Really appreciate the replies. Still a few years away, but we are trying to get our ducks in a row.
In order to understand the financial commitments of a baseball program, we show how much of the overall athletic budget is allocated to the baseball time.
Davidson 2021 expense by sport
Shows the 10 year financial spend of the baseball program (Davidson)
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Images (2)
I love that on this site, this question is asked at least every other year, and the answer always is that the information is not available.
Davidson has 7, 4 of those came after their Cinderella 2017 super regional run. My son is a pitcher there. He has loved it on and off the field.
Do baseball scholarship funds tend to come from institutional budgets or come from external sources? (Donations, sponsorships?). If external, would NIL be a more-flexible way to fund “scholarships”?
edit: For brevity. And seems like this happening already, to some extent.
There seems to be lots of misunderstanding about NIL (name, image, likeness). It was not created to fund scholarships. That would be considered pay for play and would be considered illegal by the NCAA.
Scholarships come from alumni/donor funds created specifically for that purpose. I would assume they could come from outside sources as well.
I think I understand the original intent of NIL. But could a donor group create a non profit NIL collective with a program that provides $10k to every outfielder, instead of that money being given to the university for scholarship funds?
The horns with hearts program down here in Texas seems to be doing something like that. (Every offensive lineman on scholarship gets $50k/yr as part of an arrangement where they volunteer for causes… it seems like a brilliant bob and weave through NCAA rules with potential to be a great community-positive program). Those athletes are on full scholarship already, but could this be done on a baseball scale at a program that isn’t already funded for scholarships?
I’m not trying to argue for or against this, it just seems like a potential unintended consequence of NIL I hadn’t thought about.
What we think we know about college sports could be completely flipped upside down in the next 3-5 years. With NIL and “conference” realignment and other issues hanging out in the shadows, the landscape could be very different. It all starts with football and will roll down hill from that.
Craziest rumor I heard this week was that the SEC and BIG 10 champions just play each other at the end of the year for a “national” championship. The other conferences and schools could do what ever they wanted but the SEC and BIG 10 would not be part of it.
@Around_The_Horn posted:
I heard about this the other day. This is a great example of how NIL can benefit everyone and be done the right way.
@Long415 I thought that you meant funds collected by the institution. Apologies.
I heard yesterday that B10 football players have a pending endorsement deal from a car dealership where they can have a car for the football season if they wear gear, hats, etc and do meet and greets. I ma not sure if that's true.
It is already happening. There is one just for baseball at UT and several if not all SEC schools. So far it does not do scholarships but helps with offsetting expenses a kid can not come up with such as rent or books so it is scholarship oriented but not called that. Son has i/s working on some interesting NIL deals with everything from car dealers to lawyers for advertisements to mattress company to cookie company. NIL will definitely change the college game because you can get paid way more for 3-4 years than an incoming player in pros unless you are the big dog. Realize there are several 10 million dollar plus NIL deals out there.
Yes, but getting endorsements from companies to do actual advertising for actual products, which is presumably what NIL was intended to be, is very different from getting money from a private funded slush fund to "volunteer for causes". Giving all the linemen $50,000 is simply pay-to-play, no matter how anyone tries to disguise it or sneak it past the NCAA rules.
PF, I hope he is advertising hair products.
@PitchingFan posted:It is already happening. There is one just for baseball at UT and several if not all SEC schools. So far it does not do scholarships but helps with offsetting expenses a kid can not come up with such as rent or books so it is scholarship oriented but not called that. Son has i/s working on some interesting NIL deals with everything from car dealers to lawyers for advertisements to mattress company to cookie company. NIL will definitely change the college game because you can get paid way more for 3-4 years than an incoming player in pros unless you are the big dog. Realize there are several 10 million dollar plus NIL deals out there.
It seems Ashton v NCAA was just the start.
Seems House v NCAA will be the next case that will alter the NCAA business model https://www.sportico.com/law/a...l-primer-1234632887/
@Long415 posted:I think I understand the original intent of NIL. But could a donor group create a non profit NIL collective with a program that provides $10k to every outfielder, instead of that money being given to the university for scholarship funds?
The horns with hearts program down here in Texas seems to be doing something like that. (Every offensive lineman on scholarship gets $50k/yr as part of an arrangement where they volunteer for causes… it seems like a brilliant bob and weave through NCAA rules with potential to be a great community-positive program). Those athletes are on full scholarship already, but could this be done on a baseball scale at a program that isn’t already funded for scholarships?
I’m not trying to argue for or against this, it just seems like a potential unintended consequence of NIL I hadn’t thought about.
That is exactly what Arkansas is doing. Tying NIL to community service. That must be the common work around. Dave Van Horn said yesterday that NIL wasn't that big going into this season but it is big now and is only going to get bigger. He acted like you would have players who could get more money at college over three years than their pro signing bonus.
Yeah, because they all know that the market says that there are very few college athletes who could get large-scale money from companies to advertise products. But there are plenty of crazy boosters who will pony up money to be exchanged for "community service". And probably in many programs the athletes were already doing that community service anyway, "using their platform" to do good, or to make the program look good. For most people, the definition of "community service" is that you aren't paid to do it.
I think that the community service is still illegal according to NIL. NIL clearly states that you must get paid to use your Name, Image or Likeness which was that if someone used your Name, Image or Likeness in any form you got paid. It mainly was intended so that someone else could not make money off of your NIL. Now it is just show up and play and we will pay you. Many of the football and basketball ones actually have clauses that you will get paid only when you do certain things in your play. Such as make the playoffs, win conference, play for a NC, score so many touchdowns or points and such. That is illegal according to the wording of the NCAA NIL but who is going to force it. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube is no putting it back. I think all of the collaboratives should be illegal but they will not. The problem still is a very small % will make 90% of the money. I think it did fix some things because I've always thought that it was weird that a kid could not do lessons during the off season or do a camp and make money or the school could put his number and name on a jersey and he not get paid a penny for it. But also you must realize that reality is most of these guys are that you think are making money are getting very little of it. They all have agents that are charging crazy money. Son's shirt deals through the school pay him $2.40 per shirt that is sold with his name, image or likeness. They are selling them for $28. The school did the deal so he does not have a say in it.
BTW, anotherparent, we are looking for a hair deal or mustache deal. 
Somebody is missing out because he gets a lot of air time.
I'm all for the community service stuff and push my son to do one thing a week this summer that fits into community service. He is throwing out the first pitch at LL state tournament next week, spoke at a youth group last week, and so on. We have one a week scheduled for most weeks of the summer. Giving back. I know not everyone will but I believe God gives you a platform to make a difference.
My understanding based on the wording specifically by Justice Kavanaugh, the NCAA is leaving the NIL Governance to be managed at the state level
Whatever the NCAA is doing you can be sure it’s a cross of legally covering their arses while giving as little as possible to the player.
@RJM posted:Whatever the NCAA is doing you can be sure it’s a cross of legally covering their arses while giving as little as possible to the player.
Probably
Below is the language in the article
There were already six states—including Florida and Texas—with NIL legislation set to go into effect on July 1. Schools in those states have been able to tell their athletes with confidence about NIL opportunities, creating an immediate imbalance that was already being exploited in recruiting. The NCAA, hounded by legislators as it has been hounded by judges, had to act. And in many ways, the NCAA is ceding its authority in this area to the individual schools and conferences themselves, especially in states without NIL laws, as if to say, “We wanted to slow play this, but I guess it’s too late. You guys handle it!”
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:Probably
Below is the language in the article
There were already six states—including Florida and Texas—with NIL legislation set to go into effect on July 1. Schools in those states have been able to tell their athletes with confidence about NIL opportunities, creating an immediate imbalance that was already being exploited in recruiting. The NCAA, hounded by legislators as it has been hounded by judges, had to act. And in many ways, the NCAA is ceding its authority in this area to the individual schools and conferences themselves, especially in states without NIL laws, as if to say, “We wanted to slow play this, but I guess it’s too late. You guys handle it!”
Given what is occurring with conference realignment t and NIL’s major college sports are become about as amateur as the Olympics.
@RJM posted:Given what is occurring with conference realignment t and NIL’s major college sports are become about as amateur as the Olympics.
Agreed. this is from the article June 2021
I told my kid the food apps close in August and he should look for a NIL to subsidize his budget heavy diet plan.
My son got a walk on offer at a D1 school where the RC told him they were not fully funded and only had 3.5 scholarships to use. He ended up going juco but loved the school but the risk in this recruiting environment was too much. HC is now gone so he made the right decision. Being a no $ player on an underfunded D1 program with a new coach coming in would have been bad news.
There have been a few references to specific schools but not many. The suggestion was made that this site is one of the few resources available for this information. Are people willing to post information about specific schools? I think a lot of us would find that really useful. Thanks.
@DroppedStrikeThree posted:There have been a few references to specific schools but not many. The suggestion was made that this site is one of the few resources available for this information. Are people willing to post information about specific schools? I think a lot of us would find that really useful. Thanks.
IMHO, if there is an mutual interest by the family and the school, then you will know the numbers you are working with.
I think it would be easier to make a list of those that are fully funded D1 programs. Take the P5's out of the equation and start making a list. I doubt there is a single mid-major conference that has every school fully funded, that I know of.
@DroppedStrikeThree posted:There have been a few references to specific schools but not many. The suggestion was made that this site is one of the few resources available for this information. Are people willing to post information about specific schools? I think a lot of us would find that really useful. Thanks.
If we knew the answer we would tell everyone what schools fully fund.
I am assuming that the coach funds from his budget. They can award as much as they want but have to stay within what NCAA allows.
Some players reside in lottery states and have earned money towards tuition. This gives the ability of the coach to fund $$ to out of state players.
Baseball is a sport where you get offers and go cut your best deal. Whether the school is fully funded or not there still is not enough scholly money to go around. Yes the larger schools will have more to go around and yes the states with lottery dollars will make it easier for players to get money from the state but programs will allocate their money based on their list from 1-27.
@Long415 posted:I think I understand the original intent of NIL. But could a donor group create a non profit NIL collective with a program that provides $10k to every outfielder, instead of that money being given to the university for scholarship funds?
Here's a new one: a donor group has founded an NIL collective for USC, but the university doesn't want any part of it - or so they say:
https://saturdaytradition.com/...support-from-school/
[I couldn't read the original LATimes article, which is behind a paywall, but it is here: https://www.latimes.com/sports...l-student-body-right]
@TravD posted:I heard that not all D1 programs are fully funded (11.7), Holy Cross (0), Davidson (6) etc…
Is there a list out there? I looked and couldn’t find one but I can’t find the milk in the fridge either.
D2 gets 9 compared to the 11.7 at D1.
I will always remember this conversation with a HC of a D2 that's a very strong D2 baseball program at a school that's known for its sports and where baseball is maybe the biggest sport on campus:
+++++++++
Me: I'm aware you only have 9 scholarships at D2.
Coach: We're allowed 9 at D2 but I only have funding for two.
+++++++++
Think about that: 2 scholarships for a roster of 35 players - at a school that's known for being a strong baseball program.
I can only imagine what it's like at schools not known for sports and where baseball is their least priority among sports teams.