Varsity Coach Resenting Showcase Coach

Stacey524,
I wouldn't worry about it. Tell you son to continue with his HS team and make the most out of every opportunity that he gets while he plays. In the end its going to be the Travel/Showcase team that will give him the most looks at continuing his career. Good Luck!

Stacy524

There are very few HS coaches who are "out to get him" as you term it---The coach was simply trying to make your son realize it was no great thing when he the home run--he will see better pitching

The smartest question a player every asked me was " Coach, do think we could ever play in a bubble with the parents outside where he cannot hear them?"

Yes I've seen it happen but from what you've written I don't see that it has necessarily happened here. I'm assuming that .400 ba from last year was on JV? If so, then he's in the process of earning his spot on varsity and the coach was probably just indirectly telling him that getting that one hit, while good, wasn't going to result in his being a starter all of a sudden.

The main thing is to not make an issue out of the travel vs HS team thing. Right now his primary commitment is to his HS team and he needs to focus on that.

99.99% of HS (and travel/showcase) coaches want to win and will put who they feel are the best 9 players on the field.

Very doubtful the coach is "out to get him."

quote:

Originally posted by Stacey524:
He is on varsity this year as a junior, but since the varsity coach learned he was on a showcase team, he has been virtually benched. He hit .400 last season and is hitting .750 on his travel team currently.

Stacey welcome to the site and hope you stick around. You got the chance to learn and contribute just like the rest of us. This is truly a great place.

I'm with everyone else and that I wouldn't look too much into what the coach is doing and saying. If your son can play the game he will get his chance to prove it.

I'm quoting what you said above because something about it sticks out to me and want some clarification. You said your son hit .400 last season and is CURRENTLY hitting .750 with the showcase team. Does this mean that your son is playing on both teams - high school and showcase - at the same time?

If that is the case then that is wrong. Your son has made a commitment to the high school team and he can truly fulfill that if he's splitting time. Trust me I'm one of the high school coaches who love when his guys play on really good competitive teams in the summer. But they will not play on another team when they are in the high school season.

If I'm wrong and he's not playing on both at the same time then I apologize for misreading it.

Also another factor is some states have rules against playing on more than one team at a time. If he is playing on two teams and the state does not allow it then he could be penalized by not being able to play for the HS team.

Starter on Freshman HS Team -
as a HS freshman (14-15 y/o).

Starter on JV HS Team -
as a HS sophomore (15-16 y/o)

Starter on 15 y/o Showcase Team -
as a (15-16 y/o ?)

PT Starter on HS Varsity Team -
as a HS Jr (16-17 y/o)

There are 'starters' who play on the
HS Varsity as a 14 y/o Freshman.
They also start, as a Freshman, on 16U-18U competitive Regional Pro Scout Travel Teams.

I don't think I have heard of a HS coach, who
did NOT get along with four year HS starters?

I have heard of 16-17 y/o HS Jr, who have
not gotten along with their HS Varsity Coach,
yet started as a HS Freshman on the Freshman
Team and then as a HS Sophomore on the JV Team.

I think its possible for a coach to get out of sorts with players for various reasons. I've seen it happen when the player doesn't acknowledge the coach as the supreme source of information about the sport.

Some coaches develop the idea that their job is to teach a particular kid a lesson. Sometimes this is necessary. Sometimes its not good for the kid or the team.

I'd take a cue from the coach's long term record at attracting and developing players. If he's constantly competitive, you should give him the benefit of the doubt. If he's an excuse-maker who privately complains that he doesn't get the good athletes, or that his kids don't want to work hard, then you might be onto something with your concerns. Those guys actually can't stand it when they have anyone who is better than they were. In any case, there is probably very little you can do about it, so its critical to cope as best you can.

Telling the kids how good they're not, or worse, how bad they are is not the formula for a strong program.

I think coaches want to win too much to have any motives that are out to get a player.

I am sure he is just in the process of earning his way on the Varsity team.

Now I do agree that coaches do not like sharing their players with another team. In my neck of the woods most HS programs do not allow players to play travel/showcase ball on the weekends at the Varsity or JV level.

In Dallas, the HS coaches just sort of ignore the summer elite club teams, Dbat, Tigers, Patriots. We don't respect our hs coach as one of his philosophies is "the more weights you lift the better ball player you will be". He plays seniors that are less talented than freshmen only because they have been "in the program". We just keep our mouths shut until the summer club teams start their tournaments. The club team coaches are more talented and get the kids "showcased" in the right tournaments. We just don't care that much about our hs school season, it's to political with the parents. Stacey, I would relish your son playing on the showcase team and try to pacify the hs coach somewhat, if that is possible.

How we view our sons and how we interact with them is different than how a coach (any coach) sees our sons and the interaction they have. We (parents) don't normally agree with the way coaches treat our sons, play our sons and coach our sons. Turning your son over to another adult to "use" him to win a game can create some problems ..... because winning a baseball game isn't the real reason you have your son on the team.

My son just accepted the "job" as the JV coach at a large private school yesterday. He was announced at the end of year baseball banquet. Many of the parents of next years players came up and introduced themselves and were very supportive of his upcoming role in their son's lives. After the banquet the head coach pulled my son aside and told him: "All these parents will hate you next year".
Fungo

Fungo the HC was wrong. Some will hate him , some will like him and some will hate him one day and love him the next depending on how things go for their kid.

When you coach your in a posistion that is very tough. You can take that posistion and abuse it and use it to control others. Or you can take that posistion and use it to teach others how to control their own fate.

But you have to learn no matter how hard you try , no matter how fair you are , no matter how good your intentions are , there will always be people who hate you. And you have to learn how to accept this and be more concerned with doing what you know is right and doing everything you can to help young people than you are with being liked.

I have a feeling your son is going to be a hel of a coach. I know he is excited about this and I wish him well.

There may also be some times as a JV coach where he's going to have to play or not play kids because the varsity coach said so. He may not have the option of telling the parents or even the kids that. It can be a tough job at times.

Our head coach used to give the JV coach a line up....he did what all good coaches do...he ignored it and played who he felt were the best 9. The head coach was so busy he never even knew.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Our head coach used to give the JV coach a line up....he did what all good coaches do...he ignored it and played who he felt were the best 9. The head coach was so busy he never even knew.

I don't think a blanket answer of ignore it is the best solution. It might have been best for your situation but not always. The purpose of JV is to develop and learn - not win. Winning at the JV level doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you are playing kids out of position just because they were the best. I've seen numerous times the so called stud put at a position he was never going to play in varsity all because it helped the JV team win. But how did it help the kid when he moved to varsity.

I've also seen that kid who many thought would never amount to anything as a player become a good varsity (sometimes great) player because nobody put a better athlete over them. Let kids play at the JV level to learn and develop to help the varsity in the future. After sometime you will know if they are cut out for the job or not. If not then start moving kids around but JV is not about winning.

It's easy to say "put your best 9 out there" but if you are doing your job at the JV level you will develop your best 9 without having to move so many people around to fill holes. But if you are constantly moving kids around at the JV level just so you can win games you are killing the development of any depth because you are focusing on just a few kids with a bunch being left behind.

You probably didn't mean what you put the way I took it but stuff like this does irk me. I've had to have a few "discussions" with JV coaches who were more worried about winning than developing. If you develop the talent then winning usually takes care of itself.

quote:

... on a showcase team
....is hitting .750 on his travel team currently.

Are you confusing 16U travel with showcase ball? I don't know of any showcase teams that play before the high school season is over. Or before the college season is over when the college coaches can attend.

I don't know where you are in the Northeast. But from talking to many college parents when I've been in Boston I know many of the kids are getting to college ball through Legion and a couple of individual showcases. High school coaches may not be accustomed to dealing with players playing on showcase teams. It's something they will have ot get used to.

I have all kinds of issues with how my son is treated by his high school coach. I believe his coach has issues with showcase ball taking away his control over my son's college future. But my son has hit and played. He hasn't been told he's playing well once. But he knows he is.

If your son wants to play college ball he won't let this stuff get in his way. Showcase ball is more important to getting to the next level. By the way, if my son was playing for another team at the same time as high school his high school coach would kill him, and rightfully so. He got permission to attend last weekend's batting practice.

Coach my point was (maybe made not so clearly) that the JV coach knew more about his kids and their potential than the Varsity coach. He was close to them, watched them practice everyday. He was a little bit perturbed that the Varsity coach would give him a line up when he never really was close to the kids. My point is that, just like a business, you have an organization for a reason and if you shortcut it, then it never really develops, nor do the kids.

I got my start coaching JV Baseball. Like many of us many times in life I felt I was a better coach than my boss and I felt I knew my team better than my boss. But the fact is I was not the boss. And I never wanted to do or say anything that was going to undermine the boss's ability to actually be the boss of his program.

So what I did was work the heck out of my players. ID what they needed to work really hard on and focus more time on those things. Teach what the HC wanted me to teach. Instill in those players what the HC wanted me to intill in those players. I spoke frequently with the HC and we discussed the players I had. We talked about the needs of the program and where he and I saw the player's future at the varsity level. If that was 1B then thats where I put most of the focus on learning at. If it was multiple posistion's the player played multiple posistions. Etc etc.

I knew which line up and at what posistions these guys were at gave my team the best chance to win. But I also cared more about their development and how that development would give them the best shot and playing when they got to varsity. So my #1 priority was to prepare them for the posistion or posistions that would help them get on the field at the next level "varsity." #2 to teach the game to the best of my ability and prepare them for the next jump in the game "varsity." #3 Instil in them the things that the HC of the varsity was going to want to see them do. #4 Try and win as many games with all of this in mind as I could.

I have seen JV coaches undermine the varsity coach with "winning" being the JV coaches #1 concern. The JV coach is competitive like most coaches. He wants to win. He wants to compete. He wants to have his own team. He wants to build his own team. The bottom line is this is not what the program needs as its priority from the JV program. The JV program is where the players are developed for the next step.

We never won a JV championship. We won multiple Varsity championships with the same players that never won JV championships. Our players got better from year to year. The same guys that were beating us as freshman and sophs we were pounding as Jr's and Sr's. So we must have been doing something the right way.

The JV coaches job is to prepare his players for the next level of play. His job is to do what the HC of that program needs him to do. If Billy is your best mif and playing SS will give his JV team the best chance to win does he play SS? Or does he play CF where he will be the next starter at the posistion the next season when the starting CF graduates and the SS returns for his Sr year? Or does he work at both posistions in practice , play mostly at the posistion he will NEED to play next year CF , while also getting work at SS where he might need to play as a SR , SS?

quote:

The JV coaches job is to prepare his players for the next level of play.

Check the look on parent's faces when making this statement. I've made it to parents when they asked why players play certain positions ....

"The only people concerned with the JV team winning games are the players and parents. No one else in the school cares about JV sports. The coaches are more concerned with players developing to help the varsity in the future."

Winning is better than losing. But it's secondary to development on JV.

That look comes from never being in a posistion in their life where winning was not the #1 priority. And in many cases if their son was the best SS then he played SS. Now they are in a situation where there son is a soph and the starting SS on varsity is a Jr and better. Their son needs to be prepared to play 2B or CF for example the next season on varsity and needs to learn a posistion that will help the varsity field the strongest team possible. They only see the JV and not the big picture.

There are many other scenarios I could post but I think that gets to the point. I do not concern myself with the parents being happy or knowing every possible scenario or reason for everything we do. I do talk to the players and explain to them why we do what we do and why we need them to do what we need them to do.

They could sit behind that SS or they could play everyday at 2B or CF etc. But I would be hurting the team if I dont prepare all the players for the role that will make us the best we can be. And at the same time there is no reason you can not still get work in at many posisitions and innings at different posistions as well. And I never bury a kid because as a fresh or soph he does not have a clear role on the JV or clear role in the future on the varsity. Many times I have seen kids who were not even in the picture at these ages turn out to be some of my best players as Jr' and Sr's.

So there is no way I am going to let a parent or parents coach my team or pressure me into doing something I dont feel is right for the player , players or the program. Coaches who do this are really allowing the parents to coach the team. And they have no business coaching at the hs level.

Parents are concerned with their child and they should be. Coaches are concerned with their players and program and they should be.

We look at our travel team in very much the same light---our purpose is to get the player ready for college and invariably we have kids playing positions they never played in high school- we have been known to have three shortstops playing the outfield -- WHY?-- because they may well end up there in college and even if they don't they will have learned a second psoition that will help them at the next level---and at the same time it helps our overall team strength currently--we also have played kids in positions requested by college coaches in attendance---doing this helps the coach make a judgement call for his team

Trust me many parents do not undertsand this philosophy but over the years we have found it helps the player--it can help them gain early playing time at the next level especially if their is an upperclassmen at his prime position

It ain't necessarily about the wins and losses but more more about the player.

It's amazing how your perspective as a parent changes when your son is on Varsity. It's true, I was guilty of the win now factor when my son was playing down as a freshman, as was most of the other parents watching their kids play. We weren't necessarily worried about who would be playing up and where they'd be playing on the field in the future? We just wanted our kids to do well, and for the team to win!

Of course, now that my son has completed his second year of varsity, and has only one more year of HS remaining, everything is different. I find myself wondering what young Frosh/Soph kids playing down are going to come up next year and help the team. His team will have lost a big chunk of seniors for the second straight year. I hope that the coaches did a good job communicating throughout the season about the potential varsity prospects. The good news is that we have great weather, and the HC will have plenty of opportunity to come to his own conclusion throughout the summer and fall months to make decisions on what's best for the program.

My son has the other end of the spectrum, his HS coach loves the fact that he is playing on a Travel Team. When my son has a bad day at bat, and wants the coach to throw to him after the game. The coach is like" I'll stay and throw, but there isn't much I can help you with". "You're gonna have days like that, everybody does." He wishes more of the team would play travel. He says the reason we can't beat the larger schools is because they have 5-6 kids that play travel and we have one.

Very well said Coach May and I agree completely.

BOF I guess what I'm getting at is the head coach is wrong if he doesn't know what's going on with his JV team. That is his future and he better know what's going on. My JV team practiced with my varsity players unless there was a game going on. I wanted to see what my younger guys had, how they handled practicing with older guys and ensure they were getting taught the way I wanted them to. It's not that I didn't trust my JV coach - in fact he was one of the biggest reasons we started turning it around. He stressed teaching / developing over winning because he and I were on the same page.

Now if your JV coach is ignoring the varsity coach because he wants to win then he's wrong. He needs to understand his role in the whole situation and accept it.

As for possible parent problems because you got their kid playing "out of position" a coach has to be pre-emptive. Sit the kid down and tell them where you see them playing as a varsity player. This way the kid can sit down with the parent and explain what's going on. If the parents still don't like / understand then that's their problem. My last couple of years at my last school I had this kid as a 7th and then as an 8th grader. He was playing first base and I knew he would be a great varsity player.....but not at first base. After his 7th grade year I told him I wanted to start working in CF and he was a natural. His parents weren't upset but they never considered him as an OF because he always played 1B. My last year was his Sophomore year and he was my full time everyday starting CF at the varsity level. He called me last week and said he just singed a scholarship with a very good JUCO in the area.

If I had kept him at 1B we would have won a lot of games but there was this other kid who could hit but probably couldn't play anywhere else. We moved the athletic kid and they both grew and developed. Now they both made a ton of mistakes early on but it's to be expected - they were both learning. One has a scholarship and the other is a valuable member of the varsity team although his sport turned out to be football.

Lets step away from the JV Coach aspect and return to the original post regarding HS coaches resenting travel/showcase teams

I know the above exists but there are many HS coaches who truly appreciate their players being on a travel/showcase team in the summer/fall seasons. We have HS coaches who send us players because they feel that they will get a better and improved player back in the spring. I find it difficult to understand the negative thinking---it is not like the travel/showcase team is stealing their player--not at all--they are supplementing the HS Coaches teaching plus here in our region the HS season is merely 20 games while during the summer the player can play every weekend and play upwards of 40 games depending on the schedule and ALSO have great exposure--if the college coach likes a player from HS XYZ isn't that a compliment to the HS coach and his program and perhaps the college will look at his players more often--it is certainly not much different from our staff knowing which coaches and high schools have solid players every year--realize that there are certain HS programs that place their players in college every year and the kids do not have to be studs--the college coaches know that those HS coaches and programs have well schooled players who know and understand the game

This also holds true on the travel/showcase teams because the colleges know who the solid programs are.

I say to these dissenting HS Coaches : Please open your eyes and see the big picture--swallow your pride

The majority of successful high school coaches are very open to their players joining GOOD travel-ball programs during the summer and fall in our area. I know there are a small handful of coaches that do not care for the travelball seen, but fortunately my son has a HS coach that not only approves, but understands the importance. The key is good communication with both coaches (HS and Travel) during this time frame. Every so often there tends to be a conflict, and as long as my son is up front with both programs it doesn't seem to be a problem. We have his summer schedule (HS, Travel, & 2 showcases) already etched in stone for the most part through late July. His HS coach will receive the schedule as soon as the summer Legion HS schedule is finalized. I anticipate some good baseball and an excellent incoming Senior Summer...should be fun!