Was this handled the right way?

Kids are kids; kids have bad days. A good coach can distinguish cancers on teams from bad days.

I agree goosegg, however the precedent he is setting is that every player now apparently can tell a coach to "F-off" three times (apparently - if the kids really get 3 strikes). That sets a pretty ugly precedent that will spread and perpetuate throughout the program. Plus it shows the kids who tow the line that their coach is a push over.

There's bad days and there are bad people.  A good coach knows the difference.  By allowing this kid to stay the HC is saying F you to the AC.  If I'm the AC I'm having a discussion with HC and he better have a GREAT reason why that went down the way it did or I'm walking.

We are going to win or lose no matter who we put on that field.  If I'm going to spend all that time with a group of people I want them to be people I like being around.

Sure doesn't seem like it was handled in the best manner - you'd think at a minimum the player would be suspended and required to apologize to the AC personally and to the team.  What is missing is the content of the conversation between the HC and the player.  It may be that the player is having personal issues at home or the like, and he lashed out?  Doesn't make it right, but things can be hard on young adults and they don't have the maturity to handle.  If it was just the kid being a jerk though - that is a bad precedent!  Hope this is a one time thing that does not adversely affect your team.

Agreed. Still need to know more. Seems like he should be gone immediately based on your story, but there's more details I'm sure.

IMO, there are bad days and then there is outright rebellion. What he did, in my opinion, was outright rebellion and it started with purposely not bunting, not once but twice. Then it progressed to outright disrespect afterwards. 

I’m 99% sure that kid would be gone. I mean who blows off a bunt sign in practice?

“____________” <——————-insert Allen Iverson rant here. :-/

In all the 4-year schools I know, that sort of behavior will lead to one...and only one... place: as far down the bench as that kid can imagine.  ...and the second "strike" will have him cleaning out his locker.

One can only hope he learned something from the talk with his coach. Otherwise, he's in for a very rude awakening down the road.

Agree, on the surface, the response/punishment definitely doesn't seem nearly adequate...  on the surface.  What is below the surface?  We don't know.  Did it come up in the 30 minute meeting?  Don't know.

Very recently, I dealt with a player issue.  This player is a great kid, a bit of a class clown, gives it all between the lines, very good player but lots of other interests and no baseball aspirations beyond HS, unlike several of his teammates.  He pushes the envelope a bit with showing commitment in attending optional winter conditioning and will be a most likely candidate to call in a bit late or have a doc's appointment.  But he communicates and stays within the required guidelines.

About a month ago, he called in that he would miss a practice and called late the next.  Very uncharacteristically and against our team policy, he was vague about his reason.  I pulled him out for a "discussion".  I contemplated going full ream or opening it up for him to explain why his commitment level wasn't where his teammates needed it to be.   Thank God I chose the latter.  He went on to explain that an immediate family member was dealing with a serious illness.  I got a call later from one of his parents asking that I keep things confidential to make it easier for the family to get through a very tough time.  So, it has become a very difficult line to walk.  My actions with the player, I'm sure, didn't look strong enough to the team and even to the other coaches.  But I can't explain the rationale behind those actions due to the requested confidentiality of the family.  It's what's below the surface, in this case.  

I'm not at all saying this is the same as an FU to the coach.  Maybe the coach just caved to a good player and was too weak in that moment.  But there might be more there.  

As a teacher/coach myself and not knowing what the talk was like behind closed doors, I have a really hard time with how this was handled. I understand that teenagers are still developing physically and emotionally but do we think for one minute that this kid would have received the same consequence if he had been at work and yelled "FU" to his asst. store manager (in front of everyone at a staff meeting)? 

One of my goals as a dad/teacher/coach is to prepare youth for life after high school. Obviously, we want young people to understand the importance of accountability and consequences (good and bad). If player is currently having a difficult time at school, home, etc., then I would most definitely work to counsel and help in any way possible but would still hand out a stiffer penalty then "strike 1."

As someone already noted, this coach has set a precedent that he must now follow with ALL players or he is going to run into some serious team management problems down the road.

Chicago643 posted:

Player was at HS Varsity practice yesterday. Another 2-way player (more of a pitcher than a position player, likely #2 or 3 in pitching rotation, committed to a 4-yr school) was hitting in an intra-squad scrimmage. Asst Coach gave the bunt sign, kid swung and missed (no bunt attempt). Coach yells down to the player that he missed the sign, he was supposed to bunt. Player gets sign again - bunt. Player swings and misses. Coach says "Dude, why are you not bunting?" and player responds with "F-you." This is within earshot of all the team, all heard it, including Asst Coach. Asst Coach tells player to gather his stuff and leave. Player proceeds to do that and HC pulls him into office and talks to him for 30 minutes before sending him home. End of practice, HC addresses team and says "Johnny was wrong, but that was strike 1 for him. He will be back tomorrow."

 

BTW - this is HC's first year at a very storied program with enormous success. Wheels seem to be falling off.

My son came home saying WTF?

Your "open gyms" sound way more advanced than ours. Which explains a lot about our HS program.

Maybe the kid had a bad day and wants to apologize directly to the AC as well as the team today - HC doesn't want to steal his thunder so to speak.

Perhaps we can all meet back in about 2 weeks and get an update.  Way too early to draw any definitive conclusions about the kid's attitude or the HC's remarks same day.  

If the kid comes back laughing and all smiles, then that would also be quite telling.

sounds entitled,   been also been watching too much Domingo

cabbagedad posted:

Agree, on the surface, the response/punishment definitely doesn't seem nearly adequate...  on the surface.  What is below the surface?  We don't know.  Did it come up in the 30 minute meeting?  Don't know.

Very recently, I dealt with a player issue.  This player is a great kid, a bit of a class clown, gives it all between the lines, very good player but lots of other interests and no baseball aspirations beyond HS, unlike several of his teammates.  He pushes the envelope a bit with showing commitment in attending optional winter conditioning and will be a most likely candidate to call in a bit late or have a doc's appointment.  But he communicates and stays within the required guidelines.

About a month ago, he called in that he would miss a practice and called late the next.  Very uncharacteristically and against our team policy, he was vague about his reason.  I pulled him out for a "discussion".  I contemplated going full ream or opening it up for him to explain why his commitment level wasn't where his teammates needed it to be.   Thank God I chose the latter.  He went on to explain that an immediate family member was dealing with a serious illness.  I got a call later from one of the parents that asked I keep things confidential to make it easier for the family to get through a very tough time.  So, it has become a very difficult line to walk.  My actions with the player, I'm sure, didn't look strong enough to the team and even to the other coaches.  But I can't explain the rationale behind those actions due to the requested confidentiality of the family.  It's what's below the surface, in this case.  

I'm not at all saying this is the same as an FU to the coach.  Maybe the coach just caved to a good player and was too weak in that moment.  But there might be more there.  

Coach, what a great way to handle this!  Shows your commitment to your student athletes.  The older I get, the more I find that there is often "more to it than meets the eye" - and you never know what troubles or hardships someone is facing. 

This could have been handled a whole lot better by the HC.  I don't care what the circumstance are.   A player can't be pulling this crap.   I know for a fact this would not have been tolerated by any High School, American Legion or Travel coach my kids played for.   I would have got a phone call, and it would have gone down hill very quickly for my son.  

At the very least the kid owes the AC and team an apology, team suspension, parental meeting to discuss and sort this out.  Possibly some field maintenance duty and an hour long lesson to how to bunt correctly for the team would also be in order.  At the most, he should be kicked off the team.   When his college coach checks up on this recruit that will be an interesting conversation about how he got kicked off the team.

The HC needs to find his spine.   It is probably in the tool shed next to the field rake, tamper and field grooming equipment.

Oh, and BTW, in spite of the sincerity of my story, the player (and team) in the OP's scenario would not have gotten past the second missed bunt sign.  Practice would have come to an abrupt halt before he finished his swing.

Fenway, I typically agree with you, but would you have your son kicked off the team based upon this third hand hearsay?

A player reports what he heard at practice to a dad. Player reports what the HC said to the kid. And based upon this, you would take drastic, possibly life altering action? No context, no trusting the judgement of the adults who were actually present and who should be aware of their kids?  I am not excusing any action/non action taken by the coach; I am saying the coach was there and we'll see where this plays out. Knee jerk reactions are seldom the most reasoned actions. (Would your feelings be the same if you learned the kid - right before practice - was told the family had been evicted and was now homeless? Context, context, context.

i have employed hundreds of teens and young adults over the years in my (since retired) business - many in their first or second jobs. Virtually every time I had issues with their performance (late, no show, etc) and thought I knew, just knew -mind you - the full story, there were circumstances I wasn't aware of - the drug overdoses, the parental illnesses, the overwhelming feelings of life closing in. And I was simply an employer, not a coach, not a mentor, not paid to place their lives in context. 

The movie Sandlot said it something like this: baseball is life. Life - especially at the younger end - is all about learning, building a soul, and building on experiences. We all believe that baseball is a great vehicle for this. As we all know, the road is twisty, rocky, and full of bumps. A coaches job (especially pre-college) is moving these teens forward towards real life; I'll go with the coach who was there over third hand hearsay. (For all we know, the kid will be running laps the entire season and will not see the field. Many times it's easier to quit/be fired then be forced to stick it out.)

Rant over.

fenwaysouth posted:

This could have been handled a whole lot better by the HC.  I don't care what the circumstance are.   A player can't be pulling this crap.   I know for a fact this would not have been tolerated by any High School, American Legion or Travel coach my kids played for.   I would have got a phone call, and it would have gone down hill very quickly for my son.  

At the very least the kid owes the AC and team an apology, team suspension, parental meeting to discuss and sort this out.  Possibly some field maintenance duty and an hour long lesson to how to bunt correctly for the team would also be in order.  At the most, he should be kicked off the team.   When his college coach checks up on this recruit that will be an interesting conversation about how he got kicked off the team.

The HC needs to find his spine.   It is probably in the tool shed next to the field rake, tamper and field grooming equipment.

We’re cut from the same cloth, Fenway...and I’m a big believer in second chances.  The level of disrespect here is really concerning to me, but again, this is my opinion. 

Does anyone here think that he would do that next year in college? I don’t. 

Disclaimer: My comments are solely based on the situation happening exactly as described by the OP.

My opinions are subject to change if facts and true accounts where lost in translation. :-)

I think it was a good time for a teaching moment.  Even giving the benefit of the doubt that there were bigger issues going on with the kid, there are ways to handle pain/hurt/stress whatever.  I would certainly show empathy for his situation (if there is one) but also explain that his reaction was unacceptable and as his coach, while I sympathize, there are still consequences.  That is life.

Run him till he vomits, then run him some more.

I don't know about the rest of you but when I tell someone F you I'm ready to fight them.  Knock down drag out good old fashion knock your block off fight.  That's what F you means.  By the time you are a senior in HS you should know that F you is NEVER EVER the response for anything you're going through.  Plus if it's serious (someone used evicted from the house) why are they at practice?  They should be with family taking care of family issues.  Family first then baseball.  This is a learning experience - he should learn that you drop F you on a person in authority you are no longer welcome on the team no matter what is going on.

I tell my guys if there is something going on in life that is stressful then come tell me ahead of time so we can avoid situations like this.  If I know they are struggling with something I'm not going to get on them that day.  I would like to know more about what the situation is but I have a very hard time thinking this kid is nothing more than disrespectful punk.  But the way I imagine it going down in my head leads me to that conclusion.  Irregardless he should know by now that F you is never the right response.

Chicago643 posted:

Player was at HS Varsity practice yesterday. Another 2-way player (more of a pitcher than a position player, likely #2 or 3 in pitching rotation, committed to a 4-yr school) was hitting in an intra-squad scrimmage. Asst Coach gave the bunt sign, kid swung and missed (no bunt attempt). Coach yells down to the player that he missed the sign, he was supposed to bunt. Player gets sign again - bunt. Player swings and misses. Coach says "Dude, why are you not bunting?" and player responds with "F-you." This is within earshot of all the team, all heard it, including Asst Coach. Asst Coach tells player to gather his stuff and leave. Player proceeds to do that and HC pulls him into office and talks to him for 30 minutes before sending him home. End of practice, HC addresses team and says "Johnny was wrong, but that was strike 1 for him. He will be back tomorrow."

 

BTW - this is HC's first year at a very storied program with enormous success. Wheels seem to be falling off.

My son came home saying WTF?

Are you in Illinois?  I though team practices with coaches are not allowed this time of year?

It's "club" via HS...for all practical purposes, it's the HS team

cabbagedad posted:

 

About a month ago, he called in that he would miss a practice and called late the next.  Very uncharacteristically and against our team policy, he was vague about his reason.  I pulled him out for a "discussion".  I contemplated going full ream or opening it up for him to explain why his commitment level wasn't where his teammates needed it to be.   Thank God I chose the latter.  He went on to explain that an immediate family member was dealing with a serious illness.  I got a call later from one of his parents asking that I keep things confidential to make it easier for the family to get through a very tough time.  So, it has become a very difficult line to walk.  My actions with the player, I'm sure, didn't look strong enough to the team and even to the other coaches.  But I can't explain the rationale behind those actions due to the requested confidentiality of the family.  It's what's below the surface, in this case.  

 

This ...

What a lot of folks not in education don't understand is the external factors that come into play when discipling a player.  Many factors can influence things.  Everything from does the kid have access to food at home to is the kid dealing with a terminal illness to a parent that others don't know about.  These factors can not be discussed with others and at times it may appear that an administrator/coach/teacher, etc.  are taking it easy on the kid.  Lets not forget that these coaches are educators first.  The first question to be answered when discipling a kid, is "whats right for the kid".

Goosegg posted:

Fenway, I typically agree with you, but would you have your son kicked off the team based upon this third hand hearsay?

A player reports what he heard at practice to a dad. Player reports what the HC said to the kid. And based upon this, you would take drastic, possibly life altering action? No context, no trusting the judgement of the adults who were actually present and who should be aware of their kids?  I am not excusing any action/non action taken by the coach; I am saying the coach was there and we'll see where this plays out. Knee jerk reactions are seldom the most reasoned actions. (Would your feelings be the same if you learned the kid - right before practice - was told the family had been evicted and was now homeless? Context, context, context.

i have employed hundreds of teens and young adults over the years in my (since retired) business - many in their first or second jobs. Virtually every time I had issues with their performance (late, no show, etc) and thought I knew, just knew -mind you - the full story, there were circumstances I wasn't aware of - the drug overdoses, the parental illnesses, the overwhelming feelings of life closing in. And I was simply an employer, not a coach, not a mentor, not paid to place their lives in context. 

The movie Sandlot said it something like this: baseball is life. Life - especially at the younger end - is all about learning, building a soul, and building on experiences. We all believe that baseball is a great vehicle for this. As we all know, the road is twisty, rocky, and full of bumps. A coaches job (especially pre-college) is moving these teens forward towards real life; I'll go with the coach who was there over third hand hearsay. (For all we know, the kid will be running laps the entire season and will not see the field. Many times it's easier to quit/be fired then be forced to stick it out.)

Rant over.

Sometime learning there are parameters for conduct, with that lesson being a tough one, is as important as forgiveness. Historically, this has never been a soft program. Previous HC would have escorted this kid to his car and not given him an audience to explain himself. There is no reason for my player to lie or embellish what he witnessed. He was there for everything except the 30 minute meeting. I will keep you up to date on how this plays out going forward, but to allow this kind of behavior when there are other kids of equal talent waiting in line who won't act like this, to me, is not reflecting well on the coach with his players (at least my player) and I can only guess the coaching staff too.

Joes87, I think the mantra for a team sport should be program, team, player. This player spouted off and was insubordinate. Regardless of the underlying cause (if there even is one), accountability is always preached by coaches. Suddenly its not as important because "he may have something else going on in his life." We all have external stressors that impact our daily stress level, not all kids will react that way, with insubordination and disrespect. FWIW, Asst Coach was not at today's practice. Not sure why. Hopefully we didn't lose him. he's one of the good ones.

Handcontrol posted:

Chicago643 posted:

Player was at HS Varsity practice yesterday. Another 2-way player (more of a pitcher than a position player, likely #2 or 3 in pitching rotation, committed to a 4-yr school) was hitting in an intra-squad scrimmage. Asst Coach gave the bunt sign, kid swung and missed (no bunt attempt). Coach yells down to the player that he missed the sign, he was supposed to bunt. Player gets sign again - bunt. Player swings and misses. Coach says "Dude, why are you not bunting?" and player responds with "F-you." This is within earshot of all the team, all heard it, including Asst Coach. Asst Coach tells player to gather his stuff and leave. Player proceeds to do that and HC pulls him into office and talks to him for 30 minutes before sending him home. End of practice, HC addresses team and says "Johnny was wrong, but that was strike 1 for him. He will be back tomorrow."

 

BTW - this is HC's first year at a very storied program with enormous success. Wheels seem to be falling off.

My son came home saying WTF?

Are you in Illinois?  I though team practices with coaches are not allowed this time of year?

I still don't think its allowed.  Coaches can't hold an organized practice under the guise of a club.  However, they can hold open gyms and allow the kids to organize themselves and workout together.  The coach can not be directing the open gym.  I would say there is an issue if they are giving signs and throwing BP.

I don't know the legality of it, Joes87, I just know this is what they are doing. It's a club team, using the HS facility, run by HS coaches. If it's illegal, every school in our area is doing it illegally.

These responses remind of when that new dad gets on here, says he just bought his first radar gun and wants to know where his 11yo ought to be topping out when they head out to the ballfield for the first time this year tomorrow.  There are usually a few that will immediately jump in and make sure the new guy understands that he is a complete idiot and that he is getting ready to ruin the kid's arm over the next two weeks.  A few more will speak up and, after calling him an idiot, will instruct him to put away the gun and simply let the kid throw some and not worry - make sure he remains well rounded.

Eventually, someone will calmly explain why the radar gun is not a great tool and why is should not be brought out of the closet until the kid is shaving (or thereabouts - may have this confused with throwing curveballs).  It is usually well composed and covers most of the important aspects of a young kid throwing.  Finally, some folks will come on and say that we shouldn't call these dads idiots (at least not immediatley) but rather explain nicely why he is misguided - someone will say that we ought to have a standard responsed, something like reference to a golden thread.

Maybe the kid had a really bad day.  Maybe the AC was dating the kid's mom and things went south.  Maybe the AC deserved it (I have no real idea how this could be the case, but can't discount it completely).  So we immediately say kick the kid off the team and teach him a lesson.  Then someone says maybe the punishment ought not be that extensive - make him run forever.  Then someone comes on here and says that they have no real idea because all we've heard is some third party's take on the situation - could be correct or could be missing some very important pieces.  

I really hope the OP reads these last posts and does not start making judgments.  I don't think his son will ever have a complete grasp of the situation and there is no reason to try to ferret out a few more details, much less come back here and share these few extra tidbits.  Maybe this does lead to some good discussion about how in general a program needs to be run, but I think it is important that we don't focus too much on the actual situation at hand (unless of course you were at the practice and were invited to sit in when the HC and the player sat down together).

joes87 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

 

About a month ago, he called in that he would miss a practice and called late the next.  Very uncharacteristically and against our team policy, he was vague about his reason.  I pulled him out for a "discussion".  I contemplated going full ream or opening it up for him to explain why his commitment level wasn't where his teammates needed it to be.   Thank God I chose the latter.  He went on to explain that an immediate family member was dealing with a serious illness.  I got a call later from one of his parents asking that I keep things confidential to make it easier for the family to get through a very tough time.  So, it has become a very difficult line to walk.  My actions with the player, I'm sure, didn't look strong enough to the team and even to the other coaches.  But I can't explain the rationale behind those actions due to the requested confidentiality of the family.  It's what's below the surface, in this case.  

 

This ...

What a lot of folks not in education don't understand is the external factors that come into play when discipling a player.  Many factors can influence things.  Everything from does the kid have access to food at home to is the kid dealing with a terminal illness to a parent that others don't know about.  These factors can not be discussed with others and at times it may appear that an administrator/coach/teacher, etc.  are taking it easy on the kid.  Lets not forget that these coaches are educators first.  The first question to be answered when discipling a kid, is "whats right for the kid".

 

Okay, I get that some kids have it hard. Very hard! But aren’t all teenagers going through something? And yes, serious illness is not the same as “OMG, I’ve a huge pimple!”  But a kid uncharacteristically, calling out and being late to practices is a looooonnnnggggggg way from “F... you!” IMO. Just not in the same stratosphere.

My life wasn’t easy and neither was it for most of my friends growing up in rural SC but I never witnessed or even heard about someone telling the coach “F.... you!” There’s a whole lotta grey area that you can dance around before you get to that phrase.

I get that we don’t know all the facts but why didn’t he bunt - twice? Because he’s having problem at home just doesn’t seem like the reason. Again, I get it - the kid could be hurting - but are we going to now think that “outside influences” are the only reason that kids do stupid things. Also, what about the other kids on the team who maybe going through tougher circumstances and still listen to and respect authority.

I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit today and can’t think of one scenario where this is acceptable. Sorry! 

Again, this is my opinion and I don’t expect to change anyone’s viewpoint.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

These responses remind of when that new dad gets on here, says he just bought his first radar gun and wants to know where his 11yo ought to be topping out when they head out to the ballfield for the first time this year tomorrow.  There are usually a few that will immediately jump in and make sure the new guy understands that he is a complete idiot and that he is getting ready to ruin the kid's arm over the next two weeks.  A few more will speak up and, after calling him an idiot, will instruct him to put away the gun and simply let the kid throw some and not worry - make sure he remains well rounded.

Eventually, someone will calmly explain why the radar gun is not a great tool and why is should not be brought out of the closet until the kid is shaving (or thereabouts - may have this confused with throwing curveballs).  It is usually well composed and covers most of the important aspects of a young kid throwing.  Finally, some folks will come on and say that we shouldn't call these dads idiots (at least not immediatley) but rather explain nicely why he is misguided - someone will say that we ought to have a standard responsed, something like reference to a golden thread.

Maybe the kid had a really bad day.  Maybe the AC was dating the kid's mom and things went south.  Maybe the AC deserved it (I have no real idea how this could be the case, but can't discount it completely).  So we immediately say kick the kid off the team and teach him a lesson.  Then someone says maybe the punishment ought not be that extensive - make him run forever.  Then someone comes on here and says that they have no real idea because all we've heard is some third party's take on the situation - could be correct or could be missing some very important pieces.  

I really hope the OP reads these last posts and does not start making judgments.  I don't think his son will ever have a complete grasp of the situation and there is no reason to try to ferret out a few more details, much less come back here and share these few extra tidbits.  Maybe this does lead to some good discussion about how in general a program needs to be run, but I think it is important that we don't focus too much on the actual situation at hand (unless of course you were at the practice and were invited to sit in when the HC and the player sat down together).

I will immediately stop commenting on this topic because you deem it unworthy - not!

FWIW, AC is married, players mom is not someone you would be jeopardizing said marriage for.

Goosegg posted:

Fenway, I typically agree with you, but would you have your son kicked off the team based upon this third hand hearsay?

A player reports what he heard at practice to a dad. Player reports what the HC said to the kid. And based upon this, you would take drastic, possibly life altering action? No context, no trusting the judgement of the adults who were actually present and who should be aware of their kids?  I am not excusing any action/non action taken by the coach; I am saying the coach was there and we'll see where this plays out. Knee jerk reactions are seldom the most reasoned actions. (Would your feelings be the same if you learned the kid - right before practice - was told the family had been evicted and was now homeless? Context, context, context.

i have employed hundreds of teens and young adults over the years in my (since retired) business - many in their first or second jobs. Virtually every time I had issues with their performance (late, no show, etc) and thought I knew, just knew -mind you - the full story, there were circumstances I wasn't aware of - the drug overdoses, the parental illnesses, the overwhelming feelings of life closing in. And I was simply an employer, not a coach, not a mentor, not paid to place their lives in context. 

The movie Sandlot said it something like this: baseball is life. Life - especially at the younger end - is all about learning, building a soul, and building on experiences. We all believe that baseball is a great vehicle for this. As we all know, the road is twisty, rocky, and full of bumps. A coaches job (especially pre-college) is moving these teens forward towards real life; I'll go with the coach who was there over third hand hearsay. (For all we know, the kid will be running laps the entire season and will not see the field. Many times it's easier to quit/be fired then be forced to stick it out.)

Rant over.

Goose,

So, I see two wrongs not making a right here.  First, the kid under no circumstances should be talking to a coach in that manner.   Again, I don't care what his excuse is.   Second, is how the coach handled this.   I'm going to allow some leniency here and I provided a range of consequences from lenient to strong (in my previous post) based on what the "kid" actually did based on the info provided, and how he is going to remedy the situation.   If the player is not willing to remedy the situation, frankly I don't see a place for him on the team.   Depending on what actually happened I think the coach needs to take some action or he will lose respect from the AC and the rest of the team.    Yes, baseball kids can be knuckleheads.  This was an opportunity to demonstrate zero tolerance for this behavior in front of the team.  The opportunity was lost on the coach.   I look at it this way, if the kid did this to a college coach, college professor, Army Sargeant, or a Corporate boss he is going to find himself on his own.   The coach is doing him no favors by allowing him to come back the next day with no consequences.  

As always, JMO.

I will immediately stop commenting on this topic because you deem it unworthy - not!

FWIW, AC is married, players mom is not someone you would be jeopardizing said marriage for.

OK - so now you have taken one explanation off the table.  Unfortunately, I was in no way seriously implying that the AC and mom dated, just threw it out there as a hypothetical.  Your response is sort of what happens when you start discussing a very specific topic about very specific individuals.  Apparently we are now 24 hours out from the episode and somehow folks are opining on whether the situation was handled correctly.  Unless the kid came back today and told all his fellow players that next time he going to tell off the HC instead, we really have no idea of what is happening.  

You can comment all you want about this very specific instance (and why the kid should be off the team and you "others" should move up the pecking order) but it really doesn't add to the collective wisdom of this board.  Vent if you must, but don't make it sound like you are defending the integrity of high school baseball.

I am curious about the situation, but I am not about to start asking picky little personal questions about the individuals and play couch psychologist.  But just out of curiosity, why wouldn't someone jeopardize their marriage for the mom?  That ought to add to our collective wisdom.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Maybe the AC was dating the kid's mom and things went south. 

Reminds me of an East Cobb baseball story from a few years ago.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

I will immediately stop commenting on this topic because you deem it unworthy - not!

FWIW, AC is married, players mom is not someone you would be jeopardizing said marriage for.

OK - so now you have taken one explanation off the table.  Unfortunately, I was in no way seriously implying that the AC and mom dated, just threw it out there as a hypothetical.  Your response is sort of what happens when you start discussing a very specific topic about very specific individuals.  Apparently we are now 24 hours out from the episode and somehow folks are opining on whether the situation was handled correctly.  Unless the kid came back today and told all his fellow players that next time he going to tell off the HC instead, we really have no idea of what is happening.  

You can comment all you want about this very specific instance (and why the kid should be off the team and you "others" should move up the pecking order) but it really doesn't add to the collective wisdom of this board.  Vent if you must, but don't make it sound like you are defending the integrity of high school baseball.

I am curious about the situation, but I am not about to start asking picky little personal questions about the individuals and play couch psychologist.  But just out of curiosity, why wouldn't someone jeopardize their marriage for the mom?  That ought to add to our collective wisdom.

Well, well....Looks like the HSBBweb thread police arrived! Just in time to inject his personal opinion while at the same time, stating other's opinions aren't worth a $hit......Fancy that!

Perhaps the OP will head your shaky advice of thinking long & hard of what adds to the collective wisdom of this board prior to starting a new thread? Then again....perhaps NOT.

Have a nice weekend, officer.

The only person that knows whether or not this was handled correctly is the HC.  

Would I ever let a kid say that to me, absolutely not, and there would be a price to pay.  However, what happens to the kid depends on individual situations.  

At parent team meeting I assure the parents that discipline with be consistent but not even because all circumstances are different.  Kid says, "F You" because he does not want to bunt is one thing.  A kid snapping and saying "F You" because he just found out in the morning that he will be homeless by the end of the day is totally different.  Both will be punished but doesn't mean it will happen the same way.

Chicago643 posted:

I agree goosegg, however the precedent he is setting is that every player now apparently can tell a coach to "F-off" three times (apparently - if the kids really get 3 strikes). That sets a pretty ugly precedent that will spread and perpetuate throughout the program. Plus it shows the kids who tow the line that their coach is a push over.

I don't agree with that. Will your son now tell the coaches FU because another player did. Of course not. Neither will the others. If they do their parents didn't teach them from right or wrong.

Were you in the room when the coach talked to the player? 

IMO it was not the AC job to tell the player to pack up his things and go home. That was on the HC to decide how to handle that moment, later discussion with the AC.

Last year a player at sons program went a bit over the edge with my son, who was not even one of his pitchers. The issue was handled by the AD. The reason being was that both the HC and assistants were mad, when it comes to kids, you don't make rash decisions because they pushed your buttons.  Kids do that.

I understand your concern, but as I always say, worry about your son and his attitude, grades and performance, not someone else's.

JMO

I'm not policing, I'm just saying that soliciting other's opinions about a very personal situation for which none of us (including OP) will ever have complete information is not going to result in any well founded opinion, just opinions.

The OP actually offered up that the AC was married and that the mom was not worthy of ruining one's marraige over.  He mentioned that he would "keep us up to date".  Maybe he could just spell out the school and start naming names.  He seems to already have a strong opinion and perhaps is seeking validation.  I am simply pointing out that - IMO -this is not the appropriate forum to start sharing more and more detailed nuggets in what looks like a predetermined effort to get the kid thrown off the team.  If others keep responding, then my opinion could be wrong.

I personally think the kid should be tested for nearsightedness and Tourette's syndrome before he gets booted.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

These responses remind of when that new dad gets on here, says he just bought his first radar gun and wants to know where his 11yo ought to be topping out when they head out to the ballfield for the first time this year tomorrow.  There are usually a few that will immediately jump in and make sure the new guy understands that he is a complete idiot and that he is getting ready to ruin the kid's arm over the next two weeks.  A few more will speak up and, after calling him an idiot, will instruct him to put away the gun and simply let the kid throw some and not worry - make sure he remains well rounded.

Eventually, someone will calmly explain why the radar gun is not a great tool and why is should not be brought out of the closet until the kid is shaving (or thereabouts - may have this confused with throwing curveballs).  It is usually well composed and covers most of the important aspects of a young kid throwing.  Finally, some folks will come on and say that we shouldn't call these dads idiots (at least not immediatley) but rather explain nicely why he is misguided - someone will say that we ought to have a standard responsed, something like reference to a golden thread.

Maybe the kid had a really bad day.  Maybe the AC was dating the kid's mom and things went south.  Maybe the AC deserved it (I have no real idea how this could be the case, but can't discount it completely).  So we immediately say kick the kid off the team and teach him a lesson.  Then someone says maybe the punishment ought not be that extensive - make him run forever.  Then someone comes on here and says that they have no real idea because all we've heard is some third party's take on the situation - could be correct or could be missing some very important pieces.  

I really hope the OP reads these last posts and does not start making judgments.  I don't think his son will ever have a complete grasp of the situation and there is no reason to try to ferret out a few more details, much less come back here and share these few extra tidbits.  Maybe this does lead to some good discussion about how in general a program needs to be run, but I think it is important that we don't focus too much on the actual situation at hand (unless of course you were at the practice and were invited to sit in when the HC and the player sat down together).

I think you bring up excellent points.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

I will immediately stop commenting on this topic because you deem it unworthy - not!

FWIW, AC is married, players mom is not someone you would be jeopardizing said marriage for.

OK - so now you have taken one explanation off the table.  Unfortunately, I was in no way seriously implying that the AC and mom dated, just threw it out there as a hypothetical.  Your response is sort of what happens when you start discussing a very specific topic about very specific individuals.  Apparently we are now 24 hours out from the episode and somehow folks are opining on whether the situation was handled correctly.  Unless the kid came back today and told all his fellow players that next time he going to tell off the HC instead, we really have no idea of what is happening.  

You can comment all you want about this very specific instance (and why the kid should be off the team and you "others" should move up the pecking order) but it really doesn't add to the collective wisdom of this board.  Vent if you must, but don't make it sound like you are defending the integrity of high school baseball.

I am curious about the situation, but I am not about to start asking picky little personal questions about the individuals and play couch psychologist.  But just out of curiosity, why wouldn't someone jeopardize their marriage for the mom?  That ought to add to our collective wisdom.

We have a lot of Moms on here, and I am sure you are all lovely ladies. This one, well, not so much. Nuff said.

DesertDuck posted:

2017LHPscrewball posted:

I will immediately stop commenting on this topic because you deem it unworthy - not!

FWIW, AC is married, players mom is not someone you would be jeopardizing said marriage for.

OK - so now you have taken one explanation off the table.  Unfortunately, I was in no way seriously implying that the AC and mom dated, just threw it out there as a hypothetical.  Your response is sort of what happens when you start discussing a very specific topic about very specific individuals.  Apparently we are now 24 hours out from the episode and somehow folks are opining on whether the situation was handled correctly.  Unless the kid came back today and told all his fellow players that next time he going to tell off the HC instead, we really have no idea of what is happening.  

You can comment all you want about this very specific instance (and why the kid should be off the team and you "others" should move up the pecking order) but it really doesn't add to the collective wisdom of this board.  Vent if you must, but don't make it sound like you are defending the integrity of high school baseball.

I am curious about the situation, but I am not about to start asking picky little personal questions about the individuals and play couch psychologist.  But just out of curiosity, why wouldn't someone jeopardize their marriage for the mom?  That ought to add to our collective wisdom.

Well, well....Looks like the HSBBweb thread police arrived! Just in time to inject his personal opinion while at the same time, stating other's opinions aren't worth a $hit......Fancy that!

Perhaps the OP will head your shaky advice of thinking long & hard of what adds to the collective wisdom of this board prior to starting a new thread? Then again....perhaps NOT.

Have a nice weekend, officer.

Most likely not