What Causes Arm Injuries

I don't know if there was anything else at play, but it seemed that cold weather games did my son in last year.

I voted other.

As mentioned in the other thread, I believe the #1 culprit is coming back before the arm has recovered.

Often we hear things like... Well he only threw 65 pitches on Friday, so we can use him on Sunday! This IMO is a recipe for disaster. In my experience it is the #1 arm destroyer, by a large margin!

quote:

As mentioned in the other thread, I believe the #1 culprit is coming back before the arm has recovered.

Often we hear things like... Well he only threw 65 pitches on Friday, so we can use him on Sunday! This IMO is a recipe for disaster. In my experience it is the #1 arm destroyer, by a large margin!

PG - excellent advice. Might add that infielders, outfielders, and especially catchers need to be wary. Watch college catchers before a game and your own arm will start hurting.

To me one of the biggest things that can happen is overuse. To many league games and tournaments on the weekends gave my son a scare when he was in 6th grade. He ended up pulling a small piece of bone away from his elbow. He was in a cast for a month and a half and could'nt throw or play sports for three months. Thankfully he's fine now. He's a freshman now and has'nt had any problems since.

Poor mechanics can be a big factor too.

An arm injury results from a lack of success counter-affecting the unnatural motion of repeatedly throwing overhand. Genetics, conditioning, mechanics and the compounding factor of throwing curveballs, all contribute to injuries.

A pitcher and his coaches need to be proactive in Arm Care and injury prevention, or they will happen. Why is it some colleges have lots of arm injuries and some have few, if any? I don't think it is random.

I see I was a little late with my post.

PG is right. Overuse is #1. Simple example but, anyone can throw 10 pitches a day forever and never get hurt.

It's a combination of throwing improperly + overuse

I voted other. For over use. My son had what is known as little league shoulder. It is a growth plate injury and if not taken care of can be very serious. His was. It took nearly 2 years to recover from with PT. Which really only helped a little. Then we found 2 things. One is called MAT (muscle activation technique). When he went in he couldn't pour a can of soda. When he came out in only a one hour session, in tears while it was going on, he had full range of motion and still does. The other was the athletic pitcher which he trains at regularly. One final note, he didn't pitch a lot but he did play a lot as a centerfielder. Then from summer to fall ball to indoor workouts back to spring and summer, there was never a break. It was my fault I should have told him you need a rest but never did.

I vote for almost all of the above. Not sure about genetics.

As the orthopedic surgeon told us immediately after my 17 year old not-a-pitcher-son's labrum surgery--the shoulder doesn't know if it is "throwing" a ball or "pitching" it. All ballplayers must take very good care of their arms, not just pitchers. The surgeon also stated that they need months off from throwing to rest their muscles.

I also agree with infidel_08's comment about the cold weather. My son hurt his shoulder in freezing temperatures with a sub-freezing windchill.

Combination of mechanics and conditioning.

I'll always maintain it is not throwing CB at a young age, it is...1) throwing them incorrectly and 2) relying on them so the player doesn't build up the arm strength and speed.

Many factors, most of all of the above.

BB1,
I know you are not too happy with me, but your input in this topic is invaluable for parents of young players.

There are not too many parents who will take some blame for their son's arm injuries.

One of the biggest culprits,IMO, are overzealous parents. I know of a player who has had various arm injuries, he began pitching when he was 8, and his parents loved seeing him win every game, pitch on friday then pitch on sunday, then pitch on wed type of thing. He's not playing anymore due to injury.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
One of the biggest culprits,IMO, are overzealous parents. I know of a player who has had various arm injuries, he began pitching when he was 8, and his parents loved seeing him win every game, pitch on friday then pitch on sunday, then pitch on wed type of thing. He's not playing anymore due to injury.

Great point.

Too many people let their egos get in the way of their kids' health.

cleveland dad
i may be wrong but i think catchers are number two in tj surgerys. which would support pg's recovery theory. they catch about every game? and have a higher (pitch count )than the pitchers

i love these post that make you think.it hurts ,but i love it.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
i may be wrong but i think catchers are number two in tj surgerys. which would support pg's recovery theory. they catch about every game? and have a higher (pitch count )than the pitchers

In a study that came out of Taiwan, their catchers had as many elbow problems as their pitchers.

Sometimes I think young players throw harder then there arms are capable of.
They feel speed matters?
Throwing versus Pitching.
Anybody can Throw!! Can you Pitch??
They also do not warm up long enough before they crank out a hard throw.
Mechanic's of a hard thrower is crucial.
Curve balls thrown improperly causes undue strain on a young arm.
Many many factors go into injury.
EH

theEH,
When you are pointing the radar gun at a 9,10 year old that CAN happen.

It was not fashionable to use radar guns when my son was younger. But I remember one day he and his friend were about 13, he got caught trying to throw to the radar gun in a cage at a tournament (pay 50cents a throw kind of thing). They were trying to throw as hard as they could. My husband went ballistic.

OH yea, Thats a killer to young arms.
They also have Radar guns at pro games for kids to throw at.
What an injury waiting to happen.
Absolutely no warm up involved. Yikes.
EH

Just using Jonny and Pete to do all the pitching. Teams don't use enough kids to do the pitching. IMO that is why kids have arm problems...

TPM no problem here, correct I wasn't but it was just a discussion nothing personal. we'll just agree to disagree. As far as a kid throwing harder then their arms are capable of. We had one doc say that he was generating so much torque in his motion that, that is actually what causes the problem. His injury to me and you is a fracture, to him because he is still growing it was a growth plate. I've seen evidence that bones could still be fusing until around age 22. Now, that's scary. He is doing fine and throwing well but it took along time. The most important info we got during this time was an MRI showing the bone was still growing. When I read the report I was like OH no, the doc said it was the best results we could have hoped for.
I can't recommend the 2 things he did after PT enough. We had one of the best doctors having him do the PT but it really didn't do the trick.
You should have seen him when he came out of the MAT (muscle activation technique) office. It was a different kid. Saying look I can bend this way, I can do this and that, truely amazing. It gave him his dream back.
After that the pylometrics training has been tremendous increase in speed and stamina. It is Ron Wolforths program.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
They also have Radar guns at pro games for kids to throw at. What an injury waiting to happen.
Absolutely no warm up involved. Yikes.
EH

I completely agree.

It is nice to see some attention to the catchers arm. A friend of mine who played minor league ball as a catcher told my son his arm hurt everyday he caught. In high school my son caught bull pen everyday and caught every game. As a freshman in college he catches bull pen daily but game situatuion only about 25% of the games There is so much wear on their arms and it is seldom thought about with the exception of parents as we try and figure out what he needs. Interesting is that since he is only catching one out of four games he talks about how good his arm feels. It took a long time for us to figure out his arm gets the same workout that our youngest sons who is a pitcher in high school.

I voted for "other" and completely agree with PG.

My son has very good mechanics and has always been able to throw a lot of pitches per outing with no arm problems.

His last two college starts were 12 innings (144 pitches in a 2-1 loss) and 7 days later 8 innings (145 pitches). After 5 innings (around 90 pitches) on his last start you could tell he was done, but with no bullpen and facing a must win, the coach left him out there even after telling him he had nothing left . He pitched last summer and did well considering his velocity dropped to 86-88. He was shut down in fall instructs and is still shut down. I'm hoping for the best.

Another pitcher I know of who is playing AA-AAA with San Diego threw 192 pitches in 11 innings in his HS state championship. He didn't throw again for a couple of weeks and seemingly has no residual effects. IMHO proper rest was instrumental.

And keep in mind that every arm is unique unto itself

quote:

Question:
What is the most likely cause of an arm injury?

pitching...

That number of pithces being thrown by anyone is totally rediculous. That to me means the coach has no regard for his health and I would be looking for a new school before the day is out. There may be no residual effects right now but you'll never know how it effected him down the road.

quote:

One of the biggest culprits,IMO, are overzealous parents.

Sorry, as the parent of a college catcher who had TJ surgery.....I find that comment just not true. Actually, I find it hurtful as well as judgemental...."IMO". Thru our son's experience, we have met MANY players who have been thru the same experience and I can honestly say....NONE of them were the result of overzealous parents. I'm sure they do exist....but I would say they are FAR from the biggest culprit.

According to Dr. Andrews, catchers are the #2 recipients of TJ surgery. Interestingly, he also told us rehabbing from TJ surgery for a catcher is usually more difficult than for a pitcher. Why? because the protocal is designed for pitchers as they were the initial recipients of TJ surgery...not for catchers who are expected to be more of a workhorse on a daily basis than pitchers. Catcher's aren't on pitch counts, and don't have days off between outings like pitcher's do. It all works against catchers when coming back from the surgery and rehab. Also, he told us TJ surgeries are USUALLY the end result of an initial shoulder injury. NOT necessarily because the player comes back too soon....but because they unintentionally change their throwing mechanics to protect the shoulder. THAT is what happened to our son. Initial shoulder injury...caused by playing a position he usually didn't play...left field...and making a throw to home like a "catcher". After a full rehab...he realized that he was favoring his shoulder to protect it and therefore overcompensating by using his elbow too much when throwing...eventually resulting in a torn UCL.

Like TRhit said every arm is unique unto itself. For our son, it was the result of a improper mechanics for the position he was playing which eventually down the road resulted in his elbow injury. I think it would be very difficult to lay claim to a "main cause" of arm injuries.

luvbb,

You brought up a very good point, one that has been missing (I think) in all these discussions. Actually, I think it's the other way around maybe just as much if not even more. Elbow problem followed by shoulder injury. My son had TJ and his elbow was fine, but he started having problems with the shoulder.

To add to your post... Any injury to most any part of the body can sometimes change things and affect the throwing arm and cause arm injury. This happens a lot with injuries to the foot, toes or legs as well as the back, abs, neck, etc. Compensating for an injury can cause problems elsewhere.

Please don't take offense at what I am about to say. I don't mean it like it will probably come off as sounding......

Rather than "over-zealous" parents, I would say (gulp) CERTAIN incompetent trainers or coaches....My son, who had the torn labrum, again, not a pitcher, was treated by the high school trainer. The trainer did not think there was anything wrong...and "treated" him for elbow tendinitis. It was not elbow tendinitis, it was a torn labrum. He is not a pitcher.

My older son, a two-way player, is currently shut down from throwing period, let alone pitching, because of a sprain in his UCL. The trainer believed it was elbow tendinitis and had him throwing bullpens....Because of our experience with "tendinitis" with my younger son, we did not wish to WAIT until the trainer gave the ok to see a doctor. Thank goodness we didn't wait, because after examination, the doctor immediately scheduled an MRI which determined that it is sprained, and HE shut down my son from everything for the entire season. His UCL is at risk for being seriously damaged. Hopefully, it was diagnosed soon enough to prevent surgery. Time will tell. He is scheduled for a follow-up MRI in May.

I would say that most trainers are good. But, not all.

Again, not just pitchers and catchers are at risk. Everyone who plays is.

The biggest advice that I could give to anyone and everyone is to trust your son (or daughter) and your instinct. If you "feel" that something is not right, please check it out immediately. Sooner rather than later. If you are in doubt, don't wait. It is your son and his career and his future--whether it is in baseball or not. It is your son.

Trainers, PT people, Doctors and coaches are all the same --there are good and there are bad

TR-- You are ABSOLUTELY right!

Rest is very important, imho. Some college pitchers are discouraged from summer ball after long 100+ inning seasons.

quote:

Originally posted by play baseball:
Rather than "over-zealous" parents, I would say (gulp) CERTAIN incompetent trainers or coaches....My son, who had the torn labrum, again, not a pitcher, was treated by the high school trainer. The trainer did not think there was anything wrong...and "treated" him for elbow tendinitis. It was not elbow tendinitis, it was a torn labrum. He is not a pitcher.

Very good point.

I think a lot of the problem is due to over-coaching, especially when it comes to pitchers (often the goal is to get a few more MPH out of a kid).

Every boy on my son's 12U select team pitches. The only guy who (IMO) has a mechanical problem (Joel Zumaya style Inverted W) was taught to do that by a coach. Everybody else has had minimal instruction by me and other coaches and has very simple, clean mechanics (and no arm problems).

This principle holds true at higher levels. Some of the best arms I have seen are guys who recently converted to P from OF.

At the end of the day, I wish that fewer kids were receiving dedicated pitching instruction.

It seems like 9 out of 10 TJ surgeries were first diagnosed as tendonitis. In fact, tendonitis must be the #1 diagnosis in baseball. Luckily, sometimes it's the correct diagnosis, but sometimes it isn't.

It's easy... My arm hurts!... You have tendonitis!

I'm not a doctor, but if I were, there would be a lot more MRIs being scheduled.

I remember the day when there were no specialized instructors---just your LL coaches (and your dad if you were lucky)


And you know what--we never had sore arms, played with broken fingers and loved the game from dawn to dusk

Has anyone stopped to think what a big businness TJ surgery is?

In this day and age everyone wants a "quick fix" and TJ is it---but at 12 years of age???


DUH !!!!!!!!!!!!


Is it because people think they are getting a robotic arm that is better ???

quote:

luvbb quote:
According to Dr. Andrews, catchers are the #2 recipients of TJ surgery.

And what does he know?

It's funny that with our talks with Dr Andrews and his staff they had a lot of answers concerning rehab but could not nail down a "why it happened" answer. With that in mind we have a lot of good thoughts flying around this thread but the only thing the experts do agree on is that every injury has it's own set of circumstances. We can only guess the cause or practice of prevention because if we knew we could quit that day job.

A new angle, 1 year ago my son woke up in the middle of the night with an unexplained cramp in his forearm, no forewarning, it just woke him up. The next day on the 75th pitch of and 80 pitch pen that he described as the best pen of his life he felt an "explosion" in his elbow, and we had an Alabama vaca 1 month later. The docs theory was that MAYBE the cramp.........

rz1,

Did they do anything special with the ulner nerve in your sons case?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
rz1,

Did they do anything special with the ulner nerve in your sons case?

They moved it out of the way of the ligament graft. Ryan had some minimal numbness I think in the pinky and ring finger initially but that was very early.