What Causes Arm Injuries

quote:

Originally posted by luvbb:
[QUOTE]One of the biggest culprits,IMO, are overzealous parents.

Sorry, as the parent of a college catcher who had TJ surgery.....I find that comment just not true. Actually, I find it hurtful as well as judgemental...."IMO".
----------------------------------------------------
luvbb,
Everyone brings their own opinions and experiences to a the discussion. If you take offense to my comment, sorry.
You have a catcher, I have a pitcher.
Overzealous parent, how many dads are pointing the radar guns at their young pitchers at a very early ages? What is the purpose? I do beleive that Dr. Andrews has commented on this.

How many parents of young players watch their sons pitch a game, then catch a game the next day. Or pitch and then next day play ss. MANY. Why? Because they want their sons to be in EVERY game, no bench sitting allowed. One dad told me once he was covering all of the bases for his son, if he couldn't pitch then he would catch. The son is not doing either. Is that not overzealous?

Hey, we didn't know the consequences either. When my son was a freshman he was pitching and playing ss for a full season. Did I love seeing him play evey game, you betcha. But I realize now and take full responsibility that was not in his best interest.

And there exists overzealous coaches as well.

In this day and age, with so much being presented about arm health, and so much information to be found, it still goes on.

pg
when my son had tj surgery .dr. andrews said he moved the nerve out of the way to do his magic. i believe he put it back. he said the pinky and ring finger would be numb for a few days .it was only 3 or 4 days. did they do any thing special with your son?

tpm
most young kids aren't bothered by playing everyday.did that sound dumb? how many of those every day youth players don't even play in high school? i know we have quite a few around here. and it's not because they are hurt they just didn't progress. as another point. everyday people have no need for tj surgery,i mean if you don't have a future in baseball you really don't need the surgery. the big question is who knows if a kid has a future in baseball ?

PG,
My son didn't have any surgery or UCL problem but he was off throwing for quite a while. Now that he is throwing again his velocity is much higher than it was when he had to stop throwing and is still increasing (5+", 30lbs and some physical maturity will do that). We are having to be very careful with the shoulder as a result and it isn't unusual for him to have to rest the shoulder for a couple days after throwing a pen. In fact his shoulder was still a bit sore today just playing catch with two days rest after pitching just an inning. However, he had PT yesterday and the PT stretched his shoulder quite a deal and added new exercises so that may have had something to do with it.

In his case the shoulder tightened up quite a deal and he lost a lot of range of motion with the internal rotation. That's why the doctor sent him to PT. I think that's pretty common when a pitcher takes a lot of time off from throwing.

I thought most of the TJ rehab programs were designed to take the shoulder into consideration though.

BTW, 15yo sophmore LHP, threw 107 pitches for us on one day then played first for a few innings in the second game of a doubleheader the next day and caught the last 3 innings. Gotta wonder.

quote:

tpm quote:
how many Dads are pointing the radar guns at their young pitchers at a very early ages? What is the purpose? I do beleive that Dr. Andrews has commented on this.

At least Dads involved and if used the right way What is the hurt?

How many of those dads pointing radar guns have sons that underwent tj surgery?

Was I overzealous?

I don't think it's fair to throw that statement out there without some proof. Trust me when I say I have gotten to know quite a few parents who are appalled by that attitude because they have all taken heed to being careful with their sons at an early age.

I think people have to "walk the walk" before making statements why TJ surgery is so common. As my son said after the injury when I was trying to find a reason. He said....

quote:

This didn't happen for a "reason" this happened because I'm a pitcher and these things happen to pitchers

we went to a the usa baseball tourney in jupiter about 5 or 6 years ago. 2 or 3 radar guns at every game. these were u 16 players. must be a reason? i have never seen one at a ll game except on tv. but?

When our oldest son was 16 or 17 the radar gun had him at 85...trouble was the radar operator wasn't a scout...she was an Illinois State Trooper!

woody you are the best.some day i'm going to learn that picture thing, someday.

If a parent or coach uses it as a teaching tool during practice, that's ok, but I see dads sitting in the stands with the gun on them reporting velocities to other parents, they are 10-12 years old!
The question asked was what causes arm injuries, is there proof that ANY of the above does? No, but there are ways you can prevent injuries. I feel the same way about curveballs at an early age, do I offend anyone who teaches their son a curveball very early, I don't care.
I also have strong feelings regarding showcases for young players and year round travel ball. Have I offended anyone?
The bottom line is, WE have an idea now what can possibly cause injuries (much more info than we had when ours were growing up) but even with all the info and warnings, these things still go on.

Trust me, my heart goes out to any player that has to take a year or two to get back to the game they love, you may not think so. Prevention is the key.
My sons BF had TJ surgery, his mom told me she had no clue, her son pitched and pitched and threw curveball after slider after curveball in HS, she enjoyed his success. He lost two full good years of college pitching. They were a lot smarter with their younger one.
No one intentionally wants anyone to have surgery, but to repeat again, with all the good info available, I still see stupid things that go on.


Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's the way I see it and that's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

This is a very interesting discussion and I see a lot of posts that I agree with from my perspective as another IPP - Injured Pitcher's Parent.

PGStaff said "I believe the #1 culprit is coming back before the arm has recovered."

I heartily agree with that based on my son's experience (D3 RHP, medical redshirt this spring). When he was in HS he regularly pitched complete games at 90 to 105 pitches. His arm felt great if he received exactly 1 week of rest before pitching in a game again. If he instead pitched 4 or 5 days later, his arm usually did not feel quite right. (Skinny kid in HS, at 6'4" and 170 lbs.)

In college he has been mostly a reliever. He often warmed up in the pen during games, not knowing if he was going in or not, so he would need to get "game ready", but then fairly often would not get in, and would warm up again for a second game that day, or the next day, before he finally got into the game. In all three of his college Fall seasons, he has closed TWO GAMES in one day (because they only play one day of real games in the Fall). I don't understand why he closes two games in one day every Fall, but I don't think it is good for him. He is rehabbing a shoulder problem now and getting stronger and healthier than he has been in several years, and I hope he will win a spot as a starter for next year. But of course he would just be happy to get back on the mound in any role.

I also agree with the circular effect of injuries - sore elbow causes a compensation in mechanics, which causes a shoulder injury, which causes an elbow injury, etc.

Pitching is just not a very safe activity! But I still love to watch my son on the mound anyway!

quote:

If a parent or coach uses it as a teaching tool during practice, that's ok, but I see dads sitting in the stands with the gun on them reporting velocities to other parents, they are 10-12 years old!

Well that explains it...the "overzealous parents" are in your neck of the woods. I have NEVER seen that. Maybe THAT is why the northern programs are behind the southern ones.

quote:

Originally posted by luvbb:

quote:

If a parent or coach uses it as a teaching tool during practice, that's ok, but I see dads sitting in the stands with the gun on them reporting velocities to other parents, they are 10-12 years old!

Well that explains it...the "overzealous parents" are in your neck of the woods. I have NEVER seen that. Maybe THAT is why the northern programs are behind the southern ones.

Luvbb,
Catch a plane out, I'll take you on the FL LL tour.

One more thing, pithers parents (or anyone for that mateer)has no control when your son leaves to play college ball.
Prevention should be when you have control.

your right tpm, we do have knowledge about prevention. parents of younger kids don't allways have this knowledge. or understand it. that's up to us to pass it on.

And another thing I agree with, it is amazing that catchers are ONLY number 2 on the list for arm/shoulder problems. The number of throws they make, day after day, sometimes two complete games in a day!

quote:

I thought most of the TJ rehab programs were designed to take the shoulder into consideration though

Most definetly....the strengthening the shoulder is a MAJOR part of the rehab. But what the problem is, is when you actually get back into throwing situations. The natural tendency with ANY injury (as PGstaff said earlier) is to "protect" the injured area by overcompensating with another area. And that is where shoulder problems sometimes occur after TJ surgery. And likewise, elbow problems after shoulder injuries. In my son's case, it took him probably a good 4 months after playing fulltime to trust his arm and to throw at 100% with correct mechanics. He had the correct mechanics after rehab....but in actual game situations...he found the mechanics didn't necessarily follow thru. Like any arm injury...it is a long haul.

It's the overhand motion! We need to teach our boys to throw underhand only! The overhand method of throwing is hard on the arm and shoulder.

And another thing!!!!

And another thing that my son's orthopedic surgeon said (to answer some comments and questions about the number of injuries in kids) is the advent of year-round travel leagues and playing only one sport. Rather than splitting time with other sports, so many kids are playing the same sport throughout the year. This leads to over-working the same muscles--leading to fatigue--which leads to injury.

The problem is that if we DON'T do the year round training thing, or play another sport, then the baseball skills fall off. And if the skills fall off, then another kid will have the advantage...

It's a real dilemma. Train year 'round and risk injury, or take a break or play a different sport (rest the baseball muscle group) and perhaps lose a smidgen of baseball skill?

In the first case, the player is out for at least a while, therefore possibly losing some baseball skills....
or in the second scenario, being able to play...and increasing the skills...

play baseball,
And another thing!

I agree with your son's doctor!

DK rarely played summers until sophmore year in HS.

When he was younger during summers he played basketball, went bowling, gold, hit the cages. We did it because we didn't want him to burn out and the unbearable heat in summer. But I see more and more written about changing sports during the year to work other muscles.

As far as playing more to stay ahead, intersting, many of our players down here drafted early never went to showcases,never played year round until late in HS.

20Dad,
Maybe they didn't progress because they were hurt?

Perhaps an even more relevant question: What prevents arm injuries?

My son has thrown 5-6x a week since age 12. He's now 17 and has never had an arm problem, thanks to God. He has always worked hard in the offseason (cardio, core, band, plyometrics, weights) and he is in peak condition athletically.

He has logged a lot of innings the past three years, but it is always the other pitchers on his team that have constant problems with their arms, shoulders, elbows, etc. The ones who never throw in the off-season or otherwise workout.

My opinion is kids today don't throw enough. These kids are then particularly vunerable when the coach throws them without adequate rest. Combine this with poor mechanics and insufficient conditioning, and you have problems.

Finally, I suspect another factor: Arm angle. Over-the-top guys and low 3/4 guys seem more succeptible to injury than high- 3/4 guys.

Bum,

Does your son throw 5 or 6 days a week with high pitch counts and long innings?

I agree kids don't throw enough, under the right circumstances.

I think you said once you owned a fitness club? You have done your part with keeping your son healthy with great conditioning because you are knowledgeable in that field.

I don't think conditioning is a normal routine for most until they get into HS.

But I agree with you, prevention is the key, and it just doesn't include proper conditioning.

I also think that a lot of minor overuse issues are aggravated into real injuries by a mind-set on the part of both the players and coaches that you just need to "tough it out" during the season and throw even if you are experiencing soreness.

I have been told by some parents of injured players that sometimes, players do not even want to see the trainer because it will be reported to the coach and then they won't get playing time. No one sees the big picture of, maybe you need some rest and rehab, so that you avoid injury and the soreness doesn't develop into a tear somewhere.

This gets a lot more difficult to watch when they are adults and you can only offer advice, not make rules and/or doctor's appointments any more.

TPM,

No, I didn't mean to imply he pitches 5-6x/week. I mean he throws.. and not just up to 120 feet like most of the kids on his team. He goes to maximum distance whereever possible. He essentially uses the Jaeger approach. Stretch out the arm, and then pull-down.

Bullpens didn't start until late January.

Yes, I own a health club, but his conditioning this offseason was mostly done with his travel team. It was heavy on core and plyometrics, and my son says he feels very flexible this year. At the club he simulated long-toss against the racquetball court wall in the Winter, and did his weights and cardio.
Training was done 5x/week.

I guess my essential disagreement with some is the concept of shutting down completely -- no throwing in the off-season. All I know is the kids I have seen do that tend to have problems.

Bum,
Oh ok, I agree with you.
Even though son didn't play during summers he did still continue to toss and in school goes threw short shutdowns and then tossing. Even after pitching he is out tossing.
Just wanted to clarify what you meant for the folks reading.
I agree with what Bordeaux has said, many young kids are hurt and afraid to tell anyone for fear of losing playing time. Some are very much able to play through pain until they no longer can.
Where son goes to school, many pitchers come hurt, our pitching staff has TWO pitchers that have had TJS before they ever pitched a college game, one transfer who came hurt and one coming from TJS in HS. That is a LOT. I get the feeling that most of these kids were pitching stars in HS, most likely pitching more than they should in HS, tournaments, showcases, summers, fall and most likely tired with little recovery.
A few have come with shoulder injuries as well and a freshman catcher who had to have shoulder surgery last summer and is having a slow rehab. I am not sure what it is like on other programs, but there seems to be a tremendous amount coming OUT of HS these days.

One thing I do like about earlier decisions for pitchers for commitment to college, it slows them down a bit. JMO.

quote:

TPM quote:
One thing I do like about earlier decisions for pitchers for commitment to college, it slows them down a bit. JMO.

The flip side is those who have already committed may slack off on the conditioning aspect and are not at their "prime" when they do take the mound .

Bottom line, we don't know the specifics why players are injured and we sometimes draw conclusions based on the narrow knowledge we have of a specific pitchers/programs, or someones elses opinion that we read somewhere. At the same time a wise person once told me, we are all entitled to our opinions .

I’m really enjoying this thread.

And I’m guilty of encouraging speed at an early age. Remember the baseball with a clock in it that you thumped a time or two to set it? Then it detected the release and impact in the mitt and calculated the speed traveled over a set distance. My son and I spent many hours with that thing. I believe it was called the RadarBall. Later the local police-parent brought his radar gun to a game or two and clocked my son at 70. I just don’t remember if it was before he turned 11. Still it was great fun.

That was then. Now I don’t inquire but he still likes to mention that he hit XX velocity at this-or-that showcase.



In a related thread, The PainGuy posted: First, the way to ensure that a kid reaches his potential is to ensure that he doesn't destroy his arm when he's passing through the danger zone of 12 to 14 years of age. One way to do that is to encourage kids to not throw any harder than they need to. When they are out of the danger zone (e.g. Junior or Senior year in HS), then they can start to dial it up.

I am still learning more everyday, and my son made it through the danger zone OK. I'd like to hear more about the danger zone. Sounds reasonable to me.

Fortunately the RadarBall was around age 8 or 9 and before the Danger Zone.

rz,
If they want to play pro ball they will continue to do their best. Many schools give workout routines to follow for their recruits AND expect them to do do.
Could slack off with grades, that's my objection.

Thanks for mentioning about the wise person.

infidel_08 is admitting he was an overzealous dad curuios about his young son's velocity. They do exist.

His son is listed as a top 07 prospect.

quote:

Originally posted by infidel_08:
And I’m guilty of encouraging speed at an early age.

Don't get me wrong, when I'm working with my 12Us I'm curious as heck about how hard they throw. However, for their safety I refuse to indulge that curiosity.

Also, when I'm doing scouting stuff, I want to see that a guy can hit at least 85 before I'll invest time in a deeper look at him. Velocity is about the only objective measure of a pitcher's ability, which is why it's used.

Of course it's not enough to ensure success.

quote:

Originally posted by infidel_08:
I am still learning more everyday, and my son made it through the danger zone OK. I'd like to hear more about the danger zone. Sounds reasonable to me.

The logic of the danger zone is this.

Between the ages of 12 and 14, most boys are developing the muscles of men but still have the bones (and in particular the growth plates) of children.

In most cases the testosterone starts to flow around the age of 12 or so, but in most cases the growth plates of the elbow don't close until a boy is 16 or 17. That means that for a few years around the age of 13, boys are vulnerable to damaging their bones by throwing too much. Generally that means growth plate injuries (aka avulsion fractures). This is especially true when boys are going through growth spurts and growth plates are their weakest.

Their muscles are strong enough, and their growth plates are weak enough, that they can literally pull their bones apart at the growth plates.

Once the growth plates close, then the weakest link in the chain becomes the ligaments, which is why you start to see the need for Tommy John surgery. Also, kids mature at different rates, which is why one, late-maturing 14 year-old will have a growth plate injury while another, early-maturing 14 year-old will have a ligament injury.

Most 9 year-olds aren't at risk for serious problems because, unless they are early maturers, their muscles aren't strong enough to pull their bones apart at the growth plate. However, too much overuse at a young age can compromise the strength of the growth plates.

quote:

infidel_08 is admitting he was an overzealous dad curuios about his young son's velocity. They do exist.

You must have misunderstood what I wrote. I never said that "overzealous parents" DON'T exist...of COURSE they do..they exist in EVERY facet of life. But I DO think it is overzealous on YOUR part to say they are one of the main culprits of arm injuries. Yes, I'm sure it happens, but I'm sure that more paramount in injuries are improper mechanics, coming back too soon from other injuries, unknown intangibles etc. On the contrary to what you wrote..I would think it isn't too far of a venture to say that IF parents tend to be over-zealous..MOST tend to lean further to the side of being over-zealous in watching out for their kid than in abusing him. MANY of these injuries do not happen while under the watchful eye and guidance of a parent, they happen when others are in charge, or when trust is placed in the wrong person and/or situation. Also, "curiosity" as to speed doesn't always equate to pushing your kid too hard to throw even harder and hurting yourself. Again, I know it happens however on occassion.

IF someday your son should be unfortunate enough to suffer a major arm injury, I hope some ill-informed person doesn't make the same OVER GENERALIZED assumption about you and your over-zealous parental nature. By the way...never owned a radar gun, or even KNOWN anyone who owned one . But I am ready to admit...many use them....and it isn't always PARENTS. But it was so very kind of you to offer a tour of the Florida Little League circuit.

Tired of beating a dead horse...actually, probably the #1 cause of equine deaths due to overzealous parents AND posters. (note to Julie...can you find a "beating a dead horse" emoticon for us to use? )

I am guessing that when some saw this question about causing arm injuries, they may have thought only a simpleton could ask such a question

In reality, what causes arm injuries appears to be a complex question at the very least. For instance, many cite mechanical problems as at least part of the problem. Interesting to know how we could possibly determine this. Not even sure how we can even study the problem with so many variables and variances between individuals.

For instance, what if we had some kids that were all similar in velocity, and had them each throw exactly 100 pitches per week (or less), to live hitters, on the same day each week. Lets say that each kid is not allowed to throw harder than 85 mph and can only throw fastballs. This type of test should address the overuse/rest type concerns noted by PG above. What if some of the kids, were throwing at 100% capacity to reach 85 and some others were only throwing 70% to reach 85, it seems we would predict the ones throwing at 100% would more likely do more damage to their arms. Not so fast. What about the genetic component. Maybe some of the kids maxing out at 85 or some other number actually had superior arm muscles and tissues to begin with that basically made them resistant to injury. How in fact do we sort all this stuff out? There are other variables as well such as conditioning.

Here are some thoughts for some possible long range testing and analysis. Feel free to add to them or critique them

1) Clinics like Doctor Andrew's in Birmingham should require all patients to fill out forms that detail their past histories to try and understand the nature of the problem. This should inlcude pitch counts, rest patterns, weather patterns, family histories, balls thrown at other positions, velocity estimates, types and frequencies of pitches thrown and so forth. Any type of data that can possibly be used to design future regimens should be collected.

2) During the procedures/diagnosis, Doctor's should collect biological data from the arm/shoulder in question. Does this person have any unusual features that led to injury, does there seem to be smaller/weaker tendons and ligmaments involved with this individual, unusual bone structures, etc. Whatever measurments that can be taken to understand what may have led to the injury.

3) It seems to me we need to start studying and collecting data on healthy pitchers and compare it to the data taken above. From the contrasting data, just maybe we can try and sort through some of the obvious variability involved and design regimens to mitigate injury. For instance, I think it would be great if pitchers like Roger Clemons, Greg Maddox, Tom Glavine, and so forth could have their arms and histories studied to find out if there were common threads that led to their long term success and health.

4) PG noted this one above. Maybe as technology improves, the cost for taking an MRI will dramatically decrease. If so, maybe we can have our kids regularly checked on these machines (say once a month) to help guarantee that no damage is being done. That data could also be employed to reduce further injury.

In the end, we may find out it is mostly luck

quote:

In the end, we may find out it is mostly luck

Or.....LACK of luck!

quote:

tpm quote:
If they want to play pro ball they will continue to do their best.

#1 we are talking HS to college and those that have tools who sign pro out of HS may have had a different work ethic. Regardless of what we expect from our kids, many others will react differently. Sometimes we have to remmeber that these are 17 yr old kids and what they do sometimes makes us wonder.....

quote:

tpm quote:
Many schools give workout routines to follow for their recruits AND expect them to do do.

Many, some, all, a few. With almost 300 D1 schools and countless others in various divisions I think you may painting with a broad stroke. With the college seasons underway the focus on following recruits conditioning schedules/results is not a top priority. Yes, many schools may give workout routines, but are they followed. Maybe they are at Clemson, but that is a needle in the haystack in regard to the baseball community as a whole and still what a player does may be a fictional story to the coach. Unless you're there to see it first hand we don't know what really goes on. I constantly hear stories of that "recruit" that goes to college as a HS "stud" and ends up "not what he was" in HS and reports out of shape, or not as good for some reason. Again, what you speak of is what we expect, but expectations are not reality.

luvbb said it right! In my 20+ years observing baseball (FL LL) I have seen a rare few overzealous parents abusing sons arms...I HAVE observed many parents overstating their sons arms! And heaven forbid do not bring up "luck"...then you'd for sure have to include genetics! Luvbb, just use the :hair :.: ...it'll do

luvbb: this is the hair thingy!...

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
only a simpleton could ask such a question
CD you talkin bout me? because I've been told I resemble that remark.

1) Clinics like Doctor Andrew's in Birmingham should require all patients to fill out forms that detail their past histories to try and understand the nature of the problem. This should inlcude pitch counts, rest patterns, weather patterns, family histories, balls thrown at other positions, velocity estimates, types and frequencies of pitches thrown and so forth. Any type of data that can possibly be used to design future regimens should be collected.
My son went through 2 pencils in the Andrews waiting room filling out just those type questions.

2) During the procedures/diagnosis, Doctor's should collect biological data from the arm/shoulder in question. Does this person have any unusual features that led to injury, does there seem to be smaller/weaker tendons and ligmaments involved with this individual, unusual bone structures, etc. Whatever measurments that can be taken to understand what may have led to the injury.
These topics were dicussed in length when the mri was being reviewed.

3) It seems to me we need to start studying and collecting data on healthy pitchers and compare it to the data taken above. From the contrasting data, just maybe we can try and sort through some of the obvious variability involved and design regimens to mitigate injury. For instance, I think it would be great if pitchers like Roger Clemons, Greg Maddox, Tom Glavine, and so forth could have their arms and histories studied to find out if there were common threads that led to their long term success and health.
Like any data collection it takes many samples to determine trends. Like any other medical process that data I'm sure is crunched if not be the surgeons then by the docs hired by HMO' who are always looking for trends and causes. Also, with the number of white jackets I saw in Andrews office I think that he would put them to work to find an answer because it sells books

4) PG noted this one above. Maybe as technology improves, the cost for taking an MRI will dramatically decrease. If so, maybe we can have our kids regularly checked on these machines (say once a month) to help guarantee that no damage is being done. That data could also be employed to reduce further injury.
Reducing doctors costs........is that like jumbo shrimp, fiscally responsible, and other oxymorons.

In the end, we may find out it is mostly luck
From personal experience that's my vote

Here is a site with some nice question and answer stuff from none other than the guru himself Dr. Andrews. It does sound like research is very important to him.

http://www.shoulder1.com/hero/hero.cfm/12/1

quote:

Originally posted by luvbb:

quote:

In the end, we may find out it is mostly luck

Or.....LACK of luck!

That is exactly what my son's surgeon said to him on more than one occasion--that he doesn't even have "bad luck"--he has no luck at all!



CD: Reading your post about long-range testing and analysis makes me think that this may be a great junior high science fair experiment! We may use it! Thanks for the idea!!!

quote:

luvbb: this is the hair thingy!...

Thanks Catsuremom!



LOL...we are using this little guy ALOT in the OH/KY/PA/WV forum when discussion American Idol and SANJAYA! LOL. But I think it is equally applicable here!

Per Dr. Andrews:
"There are four risk factors with youth baseball. Number one is year-round baseball: that happens, of course, not only in the sunshine states, but all over the U.S. The second is overuse, for example, playing in more than one league at the same time. The third is the radar gun, where these young kids are trying to throw 92 miles per hour when they’re 13 years of age. The fourth risk factor is the showcases, where they go out and try to throw hard, to show off for a college coach or perhaps a pro-scout, and they’re not in shape to throw."
************************

This is aimed at "youth baseball" in this interview. In our case, injury didn't happen til college..so different circumstances. But, this info is exactly what Dr. Andrews told us two years ago. He also told us that the vast majority of his patients are college and above. But he is seeing a growing number of younger patients including high school and younger. But they do not account for the majority of his practice...as of yet.

Personally, I think we need to remember that not every adult (coach and/or parent) is as educated when it comes to baseball as many of us who have sought out the HSBB site. Why is it we found this sight anyway? If you are anything like me, you were interested in learning more to help your son with baseball. Not every coach and/or parent takes that initiative....some think they know all there is to know already. Some just don't give it much thought at all. The same can be said for injuries and how to prevent them. Granted, many can NOT be prevented...they are flukes, or a result of bad luck. I'm sure many adults do not even realize the danger they could possibly be placing their kids in thru the various scenarios Dr. Andrews outlines above. If year round baseball is available...how could it be possibly dangerous? If radar guns are accessible? How could it be possibly detrimental? It isn't a case of a parent and/or coach necessarily being overzealous in pushing their kid to throw harder and harder, or overusing their arm without rest. I think those types of individuals are far and few between. I believe it is more a case of just truly not understanding cause and effect. The average parent probably takes it for granted that a coach and/or instructor, and/or other parent knows what is best . They probably think that if something is "available", how can it be possibly dangerous? As we all know, these could possibly be detrimental assumptions.

quote:

The fourth risk factor is the showcases, where they go out and try to throw hard, to show off for a college coach or perhaps a pro-scout, and they’re not in shape to throw."

....may get a response from that industry. I'm personally not aware of a player rushing from Jupiter to Birmingham for a zipper.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

quote:

The fourth risk factor is the showcases, where they go out and try to throw hard, to show off for a college coach or perhaps a pro-scout, and they’re not in shape to throw."

....may get a response from that industry. I'm personally not aware of a player rushing from Jupiter to Birmingham for a zipper.

I completely agree with this statement.

The problems may not show up on that day, but they may be there nonetheless.

Also, I think you are going to tend to see muscular problems rather than problems with ligaments since part of the issue is conditioning and degree of warm-up.