What is a "Good Offer"?

"a good offer" for each individual is what fits the individuals specific needs

There is no general "good offer"

A good offer in my opinion differs from family to family. I would say that if the offer eliminates strain from the family budget it was a good offer. If going to that school is gonna cause strain it was not a good offer in your situation.

For me, I don't care about per cent, I care about what is out of my pocket.....for example, some kids may be better off with academic & merit scholarships than athletic scholarships.

I think a "good offer" is a very relative term. It is relative to only those schools an individual is looking at at that particular point in time....kind of like economics 101 with supply/demand pricing. It seems pitchers get the majority of the money. When you start mixing public and private schools, then I think it gets down to the nitty gritty because you have to prioritize what is important to you (as TRHit suggests above).

There are two ways to make college affordable. If they haven't been done already it's too late. 1) Contribute regulary to a college fund starting when your kids are born. 2) Emphasize academics. There's 22 times more scholarship money than athletic money.

A "good" offer or a "great" offer, in my experience, is one presented from the perspective of the coaching staff and is an expression of how much they would like your son to play in their program.
It reflects the "best" offer they can make from the scholarship funds that are not already committed to current players. It reflects their judgment of their need at your son's position, and it reflects their assessment of the players value within the team concept and how he compares with scholarship allocations to other players based on skill.
Within the NCAA rules, very, very few programs can meet the expectations of any parent for a "good" offer, as you have presented them, Jeff. It is the rare and unique talent that might be able to look at it in terms of how much will I have to pay.
It isn't that the coaches wouldn't like to offer more. With 11.7, or less if not fully funded, and the 27 player requirements, most are working with very tight budgets and strict compliance oversight.
The only players likely to receive a "good" offer, when viewed from the perspective of how much it will cost the family, are those who go in the first two rounds of the MLB draft, and then it is MLB which is speaking in terms of a "good" offer that meets the parents' expectations.
In a sense, this is the "welcome" to the business side of college baseball. Except for unique talents, each team has a list of players at each position. There isn't much difference in them, from a coaches perspective. There is some and that is why they rank them, obviously.
Within their team framework and scholarship limits, very few players/parents will receive a "good" offer if that is defined on how much will I have to pay. If the parent's don't agree with the coaching assessment on a "good" offer, they either negotiate a little, or move to the next ranked player with that same "good" offer.

Fact: not every D-1 school has 11.7 scholarships

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Fact: not every D-1 school has 11.7 scholarships

agreed and absolutely correct...the D1 school my son was recruited to only funded 8 scholarships....

It is a very individual decision as to what the parents can afford and what they are willing to contribute. Unfortunately in this economy many people have lost a lot of money in the market or are unemployed. If newspaper articles are to be believed some kids are graduating from their "dream schools" in massive debt. Unless you're a doctor,lawyer, or Wall Street professional how will you ever pay off several hundred thousand dollars?????

I told my son from the time he started to realize he wanted to play baseball in college (about 6th-7th grade) that we could not pay $50K/yr for him to play baseball. We really emphasized academics as a way to fill the gap that an athletic scholarship would not cover. Like RJM I had always heard there were far more academic dollars available. He worked really hard in high school to be a great student and it did pay off in a great academic scholly @ his college.

We all emphasize "fit" here in choosing where you want to play but if it's not affordable it's not a great fit.

It depends on the kid. There are several kids from our school district who went off to college and flunked out due to having too much fun. These are kids who had too much handed to them along the way. My kids are very grounded despite the environment they've grown up. They have not been spoiled. They are/were honors students taking difficult courses. They understand how I feel about education. My daughter graduated from college PBK. She had 75% of her college paid for by academics and athletics. Now the surplus is available for law school. My son's joke is if I had a bumper sticker on the car it would read, "My kid is an honor roll student or I'll kick his a$$."

To me, when someone says "good offer", they are expressing their opinion that this is a decent deal relative to the perceived standing of the player vis a vis the other players who are competing for the same slot in the recruiting class.

It's not their duty to cover your education costs for you. That is something families should plan for. If you did not, it's not the baseball coach's fault that college can cost a lot, nor that the player maybe isn't good enough to command a higher percentage.

As to net costs, if you couldn't afford the school, why were you even looking there? Seems to me you could save everyone a lot of trouble by narrowing your search up front to places that you might actually be able to afford, from the standpoint of what the net bill would likely be. If you went after pricey private schools assuming you could command a near full ride only to find you weren't held in that high of esteem, then I guess this may be just your cue to realize they don't value you as much as you want to be valued. That doesn't necessarily mean they're right and you're wrong (though you should humbly consider whether that is indeed the case). It does means it's time to look elsewhere.

As for UNC, as of this writing I believe they still offer in-state tuition to anyone getting any partial scholarships, by state law. There has been movement in the NC state legislature towards doing away with this due to budget constraints, but if the rule has already been repealed, I missed that news. (And if I did, I'd greatly appreciate someone letting me know.) The real quandary there is if you commit in reliance on that law and then have it repealed while you're still there. That could cause financial problems and you need to have a candid discussion with Coach Fox & Co. on that point before committing.

BTW, if the point of this post was to say that college costs are completely out of hand, I definitely agree with that. As a VA resident, I would never have paid to have my son go to Wake Forest as a full price student. He could've gone to William & Mary like his brother! Very similar schools, but one has a price tag of 51k, the other only 21k (for Virginians). IMHO, colleges have completely lost site of their historic commitment to public service, and are now simply charging what the market will bear in order to build fabulous facilities and fund historically high salaries.

But you can't expect the baseball coach to solve all the problems of the world for you.

I think I may have asked this question in the past already but granted you get the minimum 25% from a baseball scholarship, can academic and other kinds of scholarship ( ie Merit, Hispanic or any other heritage etc) be added without any penalty to the Baseball program.

In simple words, Can a baseball program offer you a spot without using their baseball scholarship and use your other scholarships instead to be part of the team ( NOT A WALK ON) or they are legally bound to give you a 1 year offer.

RR23

Actually for me, this topic came about with the reality of my son getting to the end of a journey and having to make THE DECISION. I came to realize that what I had told players and parents, as a high school coach, a few years ago were "good or great offers" were probably not that good or great from their financial point of view. I was not the one having to look at the bottom line and realizing that 25% at one school may be better than 75% at another school according to out of state and other things.
Midlo, I agree with most of what you said except you can't dictate in most cases who recruits your kid and there is no way of knowing who will offer what until the end of the process.
We have had schools that have recruited my son to the point that they probably know too much about him and never made an offer, which to be honest would only taken 25% to have a full ride because of instate and other scholarships available, and then there were those that saw him pitch one time and made a "good offer" that are a lot better schools athletically and academically.
(AS for North CArolina schools none of them have mentioned waiving out of state. All of them have said the opposite. I will check into that.)
As I realized through this and many of you have said, "A good offer is in the eye of the beholder."

North Carolina schools cannot wave out of state , at least not for Georgia residents .

Wait... You guys are telling us that even after we pay for travel ball, private lessons, agility training, supplements, showcases, and recruiting consultants, that we still have to pay $20-50k per year for our kid to pay baseball in college?

I thought we were the ones that were going to be rich. I think I read about this in the gold rush days.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Wait... You guys are telling us that even after we pay for travel ball, private lessons, agility training, supplements, showcases, and recruiting consultants, that we still have to pay $20-50k per year for our kid to pay baseball in college?

I thought we were the ones that were going to be rich. I think I read about this in the gold rush days.

So True!

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanrod23:
I think I may have asked this question in the past already but granted you get the minimum 25% from a baseball scholarship, can academic and other kinds of scholarship ( ie Merit, Hispanic or any other heritage etc) be added without any penalty to the Baseball program.

In simple words, Can a baseball program offer you a spot without using their baseball scholarship and use your other scholarships instead to be part of the team ( NOT A WALK ON) or they are legally bound to give you a 1 year offer.

RR23

The only way they are legally bound is by an NLI which is only given when baseball money is given. And yes they can offer you a spot without dipping into their athletic dollars, with academic money. Also many players are not even getting 25% bseball money, but rather small percentages with acedmic money making up the larger part (if criteria is met). So perhaps 25% of baseball money is a good offer these days.

You've heard of creative finanacing, now there is creative recruiting, coaches are strapped, tuition is at an all time high, and the in state player is becoming more and more attractive to programs that used to recruit more from out of state.

Putting good or great aside it should be about the best offer however, where it will fit into your economic budget, get an education and continue to play ball after HS.

I agree with Midlo, if a school is out of reach economically, one shouldn't be considering it. We did that and that was years ago, those expensive private schools quickly came off of the list, even with good offers. We were just like everyone else, thinking that our son was a talented pitcher and he should get lots of baseball dollars for it, but even in his case most out of state offers were surprisingly low. Although a good student, he was off a bit with out of state academic requirements, which still meant lots of out of pocket (don't forget it's not all about room, board and tuition either). The only reason he ended up with a great offer to where he went was to keep him from going to UF, but many programs do not have that luxury to spend money like that anymore, for those reasons.

I think that there are a lot of folks (not necessarily here) that are running into sticker shock with the little baseball money their players are being offered. Then really stuck when they don't meet out of state or academic requirements for academic money.

However, I have found that those are the parents who spent and spent on the early baseball years, for travel, for expensive lessons, tournaments, showcases, etc. thinking they will see a return with their sons talent.

It never worked that way and never will.

I think for some they hear of the full rides and football and assume they are for all sports. Not even close. I just wonder how/why some of these kids and parents do it when I know what they are getting out of state. How do you look your kid in the eye and say I will pay or you will pay $60,000 to $100,000 in college debt back. There is not a baseball experience in the world worth that. I know some say that is just reality in today's world but that is not reasonable. I know of kids that are wanting to be coaches who are coming out of school owing $75,000+. You can never pay that back on a coach's salary.
There is also the myth that you have to go to a certain level of school to get drafted and that is not true. After studying the draft, players are being drafted from all levels and conferences. I think investment is what some are looking at and that is real hard to judge these days.

jeff

i think the first question is, what do you want to go to school for ? doctor,lawyer, etc. then you can wittle things down some. as a parent of a non acedemic son. jc was the right fit for him and our wallet.

as an old scout once said to me, "you don;t go to college to become a baseball player." school first, baseball is just a part of it.

it isn't an easy path to travel, i wish you luck in your family's decision.

I agree you have to find a school that your son will enjoy. Don't get hung up on the academics. Most guys are better getting a general education with some courses that interest him. Undergrad is not that big a deal. If he is leaning towards a certain field it might be advisable to take some courses that help towards that goal. Most change their minds in mid stream.
There are no full rides but you can make things very inexpensive.
We got a large BB scholarship and academic scholarship. Also son worked 2 part time jobs, One in a cafeteria which gave him a full free meal plan. The other was a coaching job that paid very well. Both catered to the BB schedule and both jobs were part of the great experience.
We took out a student loan because it made economic sense. The money allowed him to live a great life style. Big screen TV, nicely furnished apt and money to enjoy himself.
Where it made great economic sense was in our tax laws. He paid no tax on scholarships. The tuition is deductible as is the interest on his tax or a designated spouse\parent. My wife applies the unused tuition against her income which gets a large refund of her withheld taxes which pays off the student loan. In fact it is enough money refunded to pay 2 years of payments. So in efect there is no burden of a student loan.
I am not sure if you can do that but I would think you can.
After 3 years of writing off the unused tuition there is still a balance of approx $120,000 to be used which could last 10 years.
Look into this !

I do not agree with Bobbleheads statement” “Don't get hung up on the academics. Most guys are better getting a general education with some courses that interest him. Undergrad is not that big a deal.“

If one is interested in a single metric (future earnings – which is only one metric), the undergraduate degree can have a profound impact on a person’s future. See, http://www.payscale.com/best-c...alary-statistics.asp.

There are many variables to choose one school over another; but do not conclude that future economic benefits are not impacted by the choice. (Of course, we are talking about large groups of graduates and those large numbers are made up of individuals who may or not be the norm for that school. In other words, there are always outliers one way or the other.)

Those numbers are chump change. I have seen those and they are not great salaries.
I think your earning potential depends on the student.
For eg one of my son's teammates who graduated in accounting started with a six figure salary.
My son had 3 offers from top Fortune 500 companies that that started at well into six figures. One had an 8 month training program and would set him up in his own office.
Undergrad just shows what you are potentially capable of.
Today most companies give aptitude tests and train the prospect employee.
Post grad is an entirely different matter.

Post grad is an entirely different matter.

IMHO, finding the right fit is less about the offer and more about academic, social, athletic and (I would add, especially in this economy) financial comfort. The smart coach will know that all of these are aspects in your decision, and will help you to understand the way these four factors playout for his campus.

The first factor to consider is academic fit -- even if you are admitted and can pay for the "dream school," you have to remain academically eligible to play. A big stretch academically will mean a miserable four years for the student. Also, as has been said here, there are lots more dollars there for academic scholarships and need-based scholarships. Hit the books in HS, take the hardest courses you can handle, and learn something off the field as well as on!

The plus here is also that when you make THE DECISION, you think everything is all set. But the truth is many things can and do happen in four years of college. If injury or other circumstances take away the baseball, would (and could) your son continue at this college and get his degree? If not, then I say pass and find a better fit.

Sometimes the academics aren't about getting the merit scholarship, but just getting into the school that's recruiting you. The Ivys don't give any athletic or merit scholarships, but some are very supportive of all students -- ie: FROM THE HARVARD UNIVERSITY WEBSITE: "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities." "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities." "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities."

There is nothing new about that program.
the Ivy schools have done this for years because they can't give athletic money.
You are right that most offers have more academic money as long as you qualify.

Get hung up on academics, because that should be the first consideration many players, as most will not go onto play after college, especailly the academically gifted. An example would be future engineers, because most top programs will frown upon doing both, sorry, for everyday important role players it's literally impossible to do both.

What will you get in return for what you pay for an expensive private school should be another consideration. Spending lots of money for, as an example, a Duke degree is well worth the opportunities handed to you later on. So if your scholarship offer is not as good at such schools, you will have a faster opportunity to pay back debt. Consider where you will live after you graduate, here in FL if you are a Nole or a Gator, great job opportunities are boundless. Most can't work, go to school and play ball at the same time. Understand that tax laws affect you according to where you reside.

Consider if it's a winning program or a losing program. IMO, a D2 with an good record is far more pleasant experience than a smaller struggling D1 program. That's a big consideration because baseball IS part of the experience. Do what is right for you as well as your player. I admire the parent that sits down with their player before it all begins, and tells them what they can and can't afford. This avoids disappointment later on when the small offer comes in and you know it will be too great a burden on and your son has to say no for economic reasons.

Your player doesn't have to live like a king while at college, most of the time they are rarely home. And FWIW, consider that there are some places to live cheaper than others. In Clemson, south carolina, the housing is ridiculously cheaper than would be to live in Atlanta, GA. I feel all of this should go into the consideration and never look down at an opportunity because it may be considered by some as "not as prestigious".

Does it matter where you attend to get drafted, yes it does if you are considering a big bonus to help pay off debt 9which some consider). Other than that, no. My son plays with players that were drafted out of many differnt type of programs and they are doing well, not sure if the will make it to the MLB level, but you would be surprised they all come from everywhere, JUCO, big D1 programs, small D2 programs, etc. But there is a strong correlation between those that attended the upper level D1 programs (or directly out of HS) and move quicker. Price, Posey, Weiters, Colvin just some good examples. Not only is it due to talent, but playing for programs with must win attitudes that makes them winners. JMO.

Do your pre recruiting homework to see where your family will fit as far as what you can actually spend on tuition. Remember, in this day and age, most people don't know if their job will be there the next day. Things have changed, people have lost on what used to be for their children's education, 401K's, investments, declining home values, good jobs, etc. and it is not going to get better real soon.

In my opinion it should go like this, best education for schoalship (baseball and academic) offered, your financial situation, location then baseball.

To answer a question asked, there is no legal commitment without any baseball dollars, but as coaches are using more and more creative ideas to allow students a spot on their roster, I wouldn't worry too much about it not being baseball money.

I have been in business all my life. It is always about the bottom line and cash flow.
To me people are sucked in by the academic BS. I have friends who have never been to college and make better income than those salaries. I am not talking self employed, but working for companies. My one niece has no degree and she works in the computer industry. She earns $200,000 a year and owns 2 condos in downtown Toronto. She is 28 years old.
My youngest daughters ex husband has a 2 year Architectural diploma and works on the Trump tower in TO. He always wanted to get his full degree. His bosses told him not to waste his money. He has the talent and he doesn't need the degree.
He works for one of the top Architectural firms in North America and has won awards for his work.
It is like BB. Those who have the talent will succeed regardless of where they go to school.

Why waste your time and money going to college if you don't care about academics?

Going to college and getting an education in either a subject that will interest you or position yourself to be better equipped to handle the real world is such a privilege.

To think that you can attend a college, not have to pay for the education because baseball is going to pay your way, not care about the academics, and not really being a stud player that is a shoe in for the MLB, is not really realistic advice I think one should be following.

To get back to the original question, the "good offer" is going to vary by program, most programs will give pitchers the bulk of the baseball money, then comes those players who will be impact players up the middle, then stud players in the infield corners.

The "good offer" will be one which the program demonstrates that they are committed to the player that he will be a valued contributor to the program and not just a utility player or one who will just provide support for scrimmages.

Besides weather a program is fully funded or even if they give bb scholarships, one also needs to take in account what the program has also invested in other players at that point and what they available at that time, which may be difficult to determine.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I have been in business all my life. It is always about the bottom line and cash flow.
To me people are sucked in by the academic BS. I have friends who have never been to college and make better income than those salaries. I am not talking self employed, but working for companies. My one niece has no degree and she works in the computer industry. She earns $200,000 a year and owns 2 condos in downtown Toronto. She is 28 years old.
My youngest daughters ex husband has a 2 year Architectural diploma and works on the Trump tower in TO. He always wanted to get his full degree. His bosses told him not to waste his money. He has the talent and he doesn't need the degree.
He works for one of the top Architectural firms in North America and has won awards for his work.
It is like BB. Those who have the talent will succeed regardless of where they go to school.

That's your opinion, did you know that there are employers out there paying HUGE megabucks to baby geeks. Those are the students your kids will have to compete against in this world.
Absolutely one can earn a lot of money without a college education. But when you are hired by a company, yes succcess at what you did may get you the job, but having those degrees could get you get mega bucks more. If education is not so important, why are more and more going back to school, why are more and more getting master degrees, etc. MORE MONEY.

Yeah it's like bb, you may have the talent, but the next year someone comes along who is more talented than you and you lose your job. You always hav to stay on top of your game in anything that you do.

Was wondering, as for all of those jobs your son has been offered that you tell us about, has he accepted any of them? what's the use of talking aobut it if it never happened? Most of son's friends who didn't go onto play bb, not those with coaching position reached the 1000K mark and more many, many years ago. Most have gone back for masters to make even more.

So let's not get into that stuff, again. Please.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
For eg one of my son's teammates who graduated in accounting started with a six figure salary.

I don't know you, but this is not true. You may want to ask the teammate again. Only Managers with 4-8 years of experience in a Big 4 CPA firm and with 5 year degrees make that much.

It is true so believe it or not.
TPM many are going back because they can't get a job with a Bachelor's degree.
My son didn't accept the offers because he followed his fiancée to Wilmington NC until she graduated. He had 3 part time jobs there and ended up selling computers which they offered him full time. They even checked into getting his green card to keep him there. He is young and full of confidence that he will get other great offers.
The best offer told him to come back when they settle what they are doing. They are having a Plantation wedding May 7 2011 in Myrtle Beach. She has a medical degree and did her internship in Wilmington.
He is home now until the wedding as his visa ran out. He has an interview with a major computer company in their marketing division on Monday. He also has an interview with Apple computers coming up.
his fiancée just flew after spending 10 days here at the cottage in the Muskokas in northern Ontario.
The computer job was a great learning experience and gives him some great references.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
It is true so believe it or not.
TPM many are going back because they can't get a job with a Bachelor's degree.
My son didn't accept the offers because he followed his fiancée to Wilmington NC until she graduated. He had 3 part time jobs there and ended up selling computers which they offered him full time. They even checked into getting his green card to keep him there. He is young and full of confidence that he will get other great offers.
The best offer told him to come back when they settle what they are doing. They are having a Plantation wedding May 7 2011 in Myrtle Beach. She has a medical degree and did her internship in Wilmington.
He is home now until the wedding as his visa ran out. He has an interview with a major computer company in their marketing division on Monday. He also has an interview with Apple computers coming up.
his fiancée just flew after spending 10 days here at the cottage in the Muskokas in northern Ontario.
The computer job was a great learning experience and gives him some great references.

BHD,
You don't have to give us details about your son's fiance. Or is that to impress?
BTW, how can one work without a green card? If he couldn't accept those offers, why even mention them?

You got to have more than just an undergraduate degree in accouinting to make that type of money, or know someone, unless you are paid commission. Did you see his tax return or paycheck?

TPM you asked and I explained why. Let me help you out.
He had an extended work permit for 1 year after graduating. The company that made him the offer after 5 interviews said the visa would allow him to do their 8 month training in Kansas. They said they would get him a green card as he was planning to marry an American girl. He had to guarantee that he would not leave the company for at least 3 years. If he did he would have to pay back part of the money which was in the neighborhood of 80 thousand dollars.
he and his fiancée talked it over and decided against it.
He informed them and they said the door was open if they decided what they were doing and he was still interested.

Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.

That is what so great about you, you take a one in a thousand situation of a student who has a company paying for his Masters and coming out of school with a six figure salary as the norm!

That is like saying that you don't need to go to college to be a Multi-Billionaire, look at what Bill Gates did!

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.

What company is this?

Dis I say it was the norm ? Did I not say he was a brilliant student ? Top in the school >
It is quite normal for companies to pay for post grad education. My son had 2 companies offer to pay for any post grad courses. One was the catering company he worked for for 3 years and the other was one that made him an offer in the financial sector.

Sultan LOL.

quote:

Posted August 14, 2010 06:10 PM Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.



That is what so great about you, you take a one in a thousand situation of a student who has a company paying for his Masters and coming out of school with a six figure salary as the norm!

That is like saying that you don't need to go to college to be a Multi-Billionaire, look at what Bill Gates did!

Still trying to figure out what I like about you !!

quote:

Originally posted by Homerun04:

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.

That is what so great about you, you take a one in a thousand situation of a student who has a company paying for his Masters and coming out of school with a six figure salary as the norm!

That is like saying that you don't need to go to college to be a Multi-Billionaire, look at what Bill Gates did!

I find that pretty amazing about him too. That's what gets me going. Was he on the baseball team, if not that changes things too and not revelant to this topic.
Heard the story about the job offers as well several times, but not the second part about paying back if you left, that changes everything.

BHD seems to leave out some important parts of each situation and seems to change directions of some really great topics with good advice given by others.

TPM that is hilarious ! You who say I give too much detail .
Teammate means he was on the team.