What message does this send?

Sorry didn't mean to post yet??

Great point infielddad.

He is benefitting from his HGH use.

yellow card to the EH ... premature articulation!!

Thats so funny.ROFLMAO

Good one, Bee.

quote:

Originally posted by Beezer:
I'm not saying it's not being used today (probably is). What I am saying is that in this particular case, he was using a prescribed medication for whatever reason that was then banned at which point he stopped. Had he continued using it after it was banned, he's guilty. Since he obtained it legally and ceased using it, I don't think he's guilty. Just my $.02.

There's the rub..who's to say that he quit using it? MLB doesn't test for HGH...he could've changed sources, and be injecting it right this very instant..and neither MLB nor the Indians would have a clue. The same goes for every other player in MLB.

If they won't test for it, then clearly that is an incentive to use it in order to sign a big contract. If it's possible to cheat, with the incentive of possibly making 1, 10, or 30 million bucks per year..then it's worth the risk to these guys.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I see no message being sent---Byrd can pitch and there are not many solid pitchers around---

Baloney..there is a message being sent. Byrd's career was in jeopardy, until he procured HGH from a dentist under the guise of treating a phantom pituitary disorder.

Doing that resurrected his career to the point that he pitches better than when he was younger, and he's making more money than most families could hope to make in multiple lifetimes.

That's a powerful message.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Another thought---Mickey Mantle was followed by devils from within---he was the first male in his family to live thru his 40's---if he did not drink as he did and whatever else would he have been the player he was---for him you could easily say that alcohol was a performance enhancer for him but was and is still totally legal

I see you're still recycling that same nonsense you've been spewing for years.

Mantle may have used alcohol to deal with hios problems..but it's in no way a performance enhancer.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
If we as parents do what we should be doing as parents whatever Byrd or Bonds or any other athlete does, should not influence our kids---it all begins at home !!!

There are parents that are going to look at a contract like that..and supply HGH or steroids to their kids in order for them to sign that D1 scholarship offer, or that 1st round draft pick contract.

If you don't think so, themn you're delusional. It's classic "risk vs. reward".

quote:

by 2seamer: he procured HGH from a dentist under the guise

your posts seem to have it in for dentists.

you are a classic "anti-dentite"? .... no soup FOR YOU!!

Maybe it's time for me to visit MY dentist...... my Pituitary Gland is hurting!

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by 2seamer: he procured HGH from a dentist under the guise

your posts seem to have it in for dentists.

you are a classic "anti-dentite"? .... no soup FOR YOU!!

a RAAAAABID Anti-Dentite!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Glove Man


I know full well that alcohol is a depressent but nobody can tell me that the likes of Ruth,Mantle didnt thrive on booze---in Mantle's case it killed a lot of his physical pain---trust me I can recall the nites I elbowed up with the likes of Mantle, Martin, Bauer etc---booze for them was a performance enhancer because they could not perform without it in their blood

Then why don't teams serve pregame beers? Weakest rationalization for sustance abuse in perhaps forever.

Read what I said all you naysayers---Mantle et al could not play without booze in their system---it was part of their makeup---not a rationalization at all--merely a statement of my belief

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Read what I said all you naysayers---Mantle et al could not play without booze in their system---it was part of their makeup---not a rationalization at all--merely a statement of my belief

Nothing like a depressant taken to speed up those voluntary movements required to hit a 90 mph fastball ????

Take a look at his career splits, pretty equal day or night games.

Not to get off the beaten track on the topic - but I think TR is right about this.

Mantle was a self-admitted hard core alcoholic. He couldnt do much of anything without alcohol in his system.

IMO - as for the message sent by MLB - and using just Byrd as an example - it is a pretty clear message to me.

If big money is involved - they couldnt care less about what the message is or who it is sent to.

That is the message. IMO.

Oh please.Like the NFL doesnt have its own issues.They have more guys on steroids or growth hormone than baseball ever will

How come guys like Bonds are roasted,while a top linebacker like Shawne Merriman just is forgotten about?

Probably because Shawne Merriman hasnt demolished any records - nor has he displayed the "in your face" attitude that Barry has his entire career.

Whats even worse - Merriman has had to pay the price - but Barry hasnt paid the price.

Barry also has some great lawyers.

The Babe never cheated! Or did he?

Instant Replay would show that he is out of the batters box!!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Glove Man


I know full well that alcohol is a depressent but nobody can tell me that the likes of Ruth,Mantle didnt thrive on booze---in Mantle's case it killed a lot of his physical pain---trust me I can recall the nites I elbowed up with the likes of Mantle, Martin, Bauer etc---booze for them was a performance enhancer because they could not perform without it in their blood

I don't know where you came up with the idea that alcohol is a "performance enhancer"? Because the likes of Mantle, Martin, and Bauer let you buy them drinks surely don't qualify you as an expert on their lifes.

Mantle had many things psychologicly wrong with him from his dirt poor upbringing in rural Oklahoma. Martin was more or less a sociopacthic alcoholic, among other mental issues. Bauer liked to drink so much, he owned a liqour store in Kansas City.

I can't envision playing a night game and drinking until I couldn't stand up, then going out and playing a doubleheader the next day and feeling like I was ready to perform. I'm sure banging the asprin bottle is a sign of confidence in my teammates that I'm up and atom!

Heck if alcohol was that good for them, they would have a few belts before the game started. Not the night before and with no sleep to boot.

Back to Byrd…

Just some thoughts

It seems as though some are saying that HGH is the reason Byrd has been successful and worth so much money. Do steroids and HGH make a pitcher more accurate? Byrd is not a power pitcher, he is a finesse pitcher. Does HGH give someone more finesse or add movement to a mid 80s fastball?

Anyway, we usually associate performance enhancing drugs with strength, speed and power, at least when it comes to results. Most obvious would be power hitters and power pitchers.

So other than the advantage of helping to recover from an injury, what do the singles hitters, and soft tossers actually gain from steroids or HGH? Would someone like Wakefield gain anything by using steroids? Would his knuckle ball get better?

Of course, there’s the possible intent involved and the fact that it was very suspicious if not illegal. I’m just trying to figure out exactly how Byrd greatly improved his ability by HGH.

I understand that this stuff is out of hand and should be cleaned up. Also believe that big strides are being made despite what people say.

One more question… Steroids and HGH are generally used for health reasons. Illness and injury are reasons that steroids are prescribed. I’d venture a guess that many of us have been given a prescription (legally) for some form of steroids. I do understand that this is completely different than using steroids as an enhancement, but what about recovery from an injury? If an athlete were to take steroids legally prescribed in order to help recover from a serious injury and only for that purpose… would people be so up in arms? Would people claim that was cheating? I think they would if that player went on to set some records.

Is anything natural anymore? I walk into a convenience store and see all kinds of energy drinks, pills sold right over the counter to keep you awake and alert, coolers full of beer, all kinds of tobacco. And all this stuff is legal! And some of it can and has killed people!

A Cardinals pitcher was killed in a car accident last year. The reported major cause was BOOZE! He died because of alcohol not steroids. Luckily, he didn’t take other innocent people with him. So if we are going to use the health card, let’s use it across the board. Why doesn’t MLB ban the use of alcohol? It’s proven to kill people. I forgot… It is legal! It was once illegal, but that didn’t stop us, we would get it anyway. So they made this very dangerous substance legal! Which is just fine as far as I'm concerned.

BTW

The Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the years 1920 to 1933, during which alcohol sale, manufacture and transportation were constitutionally banned throughout the United States.

Guess who played and set records during that period of time? Yes, Babe did it on hot dogs and beer. ILLEGAL beer!!! Maybe not a performance enhancer, but definitely ILLEGAL! Yet, people joke and love him for this illegal activity.

What if steroids become legal in 20 years?

JIMI

Again I say your handle is a grave insult to one of the greatest guitarists ever to live


But you also need to read better than you do---where did I say I bought them drinks---I said I rubbed elbows with them a number of times---amazing how simple minds come up with what they want to

Are not pian killer shots and cortisone shots performance enhancers ? And they are legal


Think about how many players get cortisone shots on a regular basis

quote:

PGStaff posted: So other than the advantage of helping to recover from an injury, what do the singles hitters, and soft tossers actually gain from steroids or HGH? Would someone like Wakefield gain anything by using steroids? Would his knuckle ball get better?

Apparently the recooperative powers of the stuff is ample reason for using. Byrd started using when he was injured and used after surgery. If you can't play you can't get paid. HGH reverses or slows the aging process, as in speeding recovery from chonic use, i.e. pitching regularly.

If it's legal and controlled at the professional level, how long before crazy amateur parents are juicing their kids. Not very long. It all needs to go away via an Olympic quality testing program with lifetime bans after the second offense.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Are not pian killer shots and cortisone shots performance enhancers ? And they are legal


Think about how many players get cortisone shots on a regular basis

That was a silly statement. Cortisone shots aid in healing, and quite different than HGH or other steroids used illegally for quick recovery or for enhancing ones performance.

As far as drinking illegal beer, not sure it was used for purpose of recovery or to look like a stud.

Maybe someday these certain type of steroids will be used medically for getting back to the game faster than traditional therapy.

What I find very offensive is a player who preaches he has never used such measures to regain his health (or whatever reason) and then we find out he did.

That sends a very bad message.

TPM

Silly in your mind perhaps but not mine---cortisone is a performance enhancer whether you like it or not---the player would not be on the field without it-- so are painkillers

HGH as purportedly used in Byrd's case was also for healing

Steroids with prescription are used in healing as well

the cortizone class are anti-nflamatory ... anabolic class build muscle mass

BEE

You are , as always, correct, you are never wrong, BUT if you read again I am talking about performance enhancers.


By the way for your future reference---the proper spelling is cortisone

I am going to stick by my original statment, the cortisone and the doses recommended and PRESCRIBED by a team doctor are a lot different for your asthma than the type used by players mentioned.

TPM

What does asthma have to do with cortisone shots in the joints?

quote:

by TR: You are , as always, correct, you are never wrong, BUT if you read again I am talking about performance enhancers.

By the way for your future reference---the proper spelling is cortisone

thanks for the clarification

btw .. I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken

OK, I get it now.

So the cortisone injections given to Bigpapi's knee during the World Series enhanced his performance?

I can just see it now.

RED SOX 2007 WORLD CHAMPS*



Bee,
Shame on you for using a Z instead of an S.

So thats why my Rockies lost! Big Pappi was cheating!!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

What does asthma have to do with cortisone shots in the joints?

Same stuff, different form.

Frank, now you know the REAL truth!

TPM

And those enhancers are legal---if you cannot walk and a legal shot of cortisone helps you get on the field---WHY NOT !!!!


I also think your statement "same stuff different form" is totally erroneous and misleading for the readers

Dr. Rizzi, I presume?

quote:

Originally posted by FrankF:
So thats why my Rockies lost! Big Pappi was cheating!!!

Well, not quite. He wasn't actually allowed any shots during the playoffs. He had taken his quota during the regular season. The last one right before the playoffs. They won fair and square(ish), pending the Mitchell Report. According to reports, 11 current free agents have been interviewd for the Mitchell Report and are have been caught dirty. I'm guessing the Mitchell report list is long.

"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'"- Junior Johnson

Dad04,

I am sorry I thought that they had said that Bigpapi had to have shots every other day for pain in his knee. Not suer when it was. Just fooling around to make a point.

TR,
Cortisone injected by a doctor and taken for astham or to reduce swelling is used for anti inflammatory purposes. The pill one takes for reducing inflammation in the lungs (for asthmatics) and for a bad knee is the same, in a different form. It is not the same as HGH.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
It seems as though some are saying that HGH is the reason Byrd has been successful and worth so much money. Do steroids and HGH make a pitcher more accurate? Byrd is not a power pitcher, he is a finesse pitcher. Does HGH give someone more finesse or add movement to a mid 80s fastball?

Of course, there’s the possible intent involved and the fact that it was very suspicious if not illegal. I’m just trying to figure out exactly how Byrd greatly improved his ability by HGH.

It's east to figure out. Byrd came back from injuries, used HGH, and is making big bucks as a mid-80's mph pitcher. If he hadn't used HGH, he may only be a mid-70's mph pitcher, and would most like ly be out of the game.

He made a $25,000 investment in his career by buying HGH from a dentist. He's made a return of millions of dollars off of that investment.

Same principle of why a singles hitter would use steroids or HGH..if you don't use it, and bat .225, you won't be around long. Pick your strength and batspeed up a few notches, have 2 or 3 extra basehits per week go through the infield, and you're batting .295 instead of .225. You sign a new contract for several million bucks, and "voila"..nice return on your investment.

If you have "warning track power"...use HGH or steroids...add 20-40 feet to your hits..(a modest amount)...increase your HR totals from 5 or 6 to 18..and sign a big contract.

If you have Barry Bonds or ARod talent, that extra strength and batspeed gained by HGH or steroids makes a huge difference...pad your stats dramatically, and instead of making a paltry 2 or 3 million per year, you're looking at 15, 20, or 30 million bucks per year.