What steps did you take after HS?

I think you're going to get a wide breadth of answers to your post. I'll throw out a few.

1. Your son must COMMIT, in a very big way, to getting into the best shape he can imagine. Stronger, faster, more flexible, more endurance...he needs to turn his body into a fast-action, never worn out spring. Most college programs have some philosophy on how to get this done...and a program to go with it. But HE will need to work on this on his own during off-times from college.

2. Your son must COMMIT, in a very big way, to practicing his trade at every opportunity. Aside from pitchers who rack up a lot of innings during the college season, every other player should be playing at every opportunity he gets. And he must be practicing (off a tee, BP, in a cage, new grips on fastball/curve/change/slider) nearly non-stop. There is well-accepted research that says people tend to cross the bridge and become "elite" at something (baseball, computer programming, lawyering, etc...) when they reach 10,000 hours of practice (see the book, "Outliers," by Malcolm Gladwell).

3. Unless nursing an injury or shutting down as a pitcher because of a lot of use...I think it is imperative that he plays summer ball at as high of a level as his college coach can place him. Pitchers do need rest, so be mindful of that.

4. He must commit mentally. Except for a very 'super-elite' few, making it into pro ball and working your way up the ladder IS A GRIND! There are many good days, followed by some bad ones that you have to recover from to get back to the good ones. I've seen a lot of players throw in the towel after the bad ones. There are all-night bus rides, lousy pay and roommates who are un-sanitary. There are teammates he won't like and coaches that he won't like either...and mom and dad can do nothing to fix it. There will be comments made to him that make him feel like c-r-a-p. He will be cheered by the fans...but he will be booed as well. He will have to play with small injuries, but know when to look out for himself when the injury is bigger than "small." He will have to put much of his life on hold (girlfriends, careers, nice things he'd like to own if he just had some $$) while his peers from college are building their lives, their families, their careers.

As my son has told us, "You have to absolutely love it or you cannot do it." It is exhilarating at times, but very lonely at other times. It is a 'choice' of sorts and choices he makes now will likely have big impacts on whether or not the pro game can happen down the road.

I wish your son the very best of luck!

justbaseball,

That was a great post and I agree with every single word.Not that that matters

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
justbaseball,

That was a great post and I agree with every single word.Not that that matters

Totally agree - justbb - that was an outstanding post. I see pro baseball as more of a mental challenge than a physical one. It's easy to hit when you're on a hitting streak and your confidence is high. It's easy to pitch when everything you throw does what it is intended to do. The hard part is grinding through the rough stretches with some degree of confidence that things will turn around.

College players need to demonstrate they are 100% committed to pro ball. I've seen more than one All-American type player go undrafted and I often wondered if it was that they gave off luke-warm vibes regarding their committment.

College players best opportunities are on pro days during fall camp and perhaps performing well when they are playing against someone else during the season who is also being scouted. You can't control whether or not you will be drafted but you can control your attitude and hustle. All it takes is for one team to like you.

Great answers!

Playing summer is very imporant because that is when the pitcher/hitter competes with wood.

My son didn't play his first summer because of the innings he put in, but he played at a top 25 D1 school so he had plenty of exposure against the better hitters. He did really well at the cape against wood and that helped his cause. If your son did not put in a lot of innings he should have been playing, or if not playing than conditioning and getting ready to compete for the fall, that is if he hopes to be considerrd for the draft, the end of his junior year.

JBB posts good stuff, #2 probably is the most important factor to keep in mind while in college. Then #4.

Just a footnote.

We, as parents, didn't take any steps.

As a college player the responsibility to help further one's playing (as a professional) should be up to him.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
I think you're going to get a wide breadth of answers to your post. I'll throw out a few.

First, thanks for your kind wishes on behalf of my son. Second, that was exactly the type of post I was looking for information wise.


I have my son on a two track path, meaning he must continue to get good grades and achieve his undergraduate degree, and also do everything he can to achieve his other goal of developing into the best pitcher he can be and getting drafted.
I certainly know he must do it on his own, but anything I can do to help point him in the right direction I am willing to do. So I guess from this point forward, no more family vacations with him during the summer. He will have to play summer ball in the best league he can be recommend for.

This summer he has been working out 6 days a week(conditioning/weights), throwing 3 days a week (long toss, short box, pens) and on the 7th day he is relaxing with stretching/yoga. I want him long tossing a little more and doing his bands every day, but for the most part he should be in very good shape going into his sophomore year.

Now that we know what you want, what exactly does he want to do, as I am totally confused as to whose goals these really are!

Vector, any pitcher in his sophomore year of college should already nearly perfected his regimine. He knows what to do, let him do it.

As for getting drafted, what is his working velocity, his top, how many quality pitches does he have? What level of ball is he playing?

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
Vector, any pitcher in his sophomore year of college should already nearly perfected his regimine. He knows what to do, let him do it.

As for getting drafted, what is his working velocity, his top, how many quality pitches does he have? What level of ball is he playing?

He cruises in the mid 80's with 88 still being his top velo. He throws three pitches for strikes, with a nasty change being his best offspeed pitch. He is working on a slider, but it is still a work in progress.
He is pitching for a mid-level D1.

He knows most kids do not get drafted, and he must work hard to achieve that goal. I just want to make sure he has the best chance by doing what is considered necessary to get on scouts radars.

For instance I assumed he would need to pitch in collegiate summer leagues, but I was not sure what year he should start. His Freshman year was out based on what I already posted. So know I know he will not be going on a family vacation with us next summer as it sounds imperative that he pitch instead.
So any and all nuggets of info on what others here did to get drafted is certainly appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to post and ask questions in an effort to help him out.

Truthfully, he will probably need to add 3-5 mph and maintain good command to have a good chance at being drafted. Sometimes an LHP can get drafted with that velo, but still tough.

Improving flexibility may be key for him.

We always spent our family vacations at the ball field...

I never knew there was another way, lol!

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
We always spent our family vacations at the ball field...

I never knew there was another way, lol!

There are hundreds of players that play summer ball each year and do not get drafted. What will get your player drafted (and where) is his stuff, the program he plays for and the level of competition he plays with and against.

Summer collegiate ball is another venue for added exposure.

I am with Bum on this one, your son should know what he has to do to move onto the next level. Let him do it, if he hasn't figured it out yet, he will.

Sit back and enjoy the ride.

quote:

This summer he has been working out 6 days a week(conditioning/weights), throwing 3 days a week (long toss, short box, pens) and on the 7th day he is relaxing with stretching/yoga. I want him long tossing a little more and doing his bands every day, but for the most part he should be in very good shape going into his sophomore year.

I am unclear how a parent could know if their son is in "very good shape" going into a sophomore year.
For our son and every college or Milb player I know or have spoken with, if they were not in a college league, they were involved in doing a conditioning program designed and overseen throughout the Summer by the college coaching staff and strength and conditioning coach. Some do both.
Personally, I question if a parent would know or could accurately predict their son is in "good college baseball shape" heading into their sophomore year when there were minimal innings in the Spring, no Summer league, and with the general view that players/pitchers make the biggest leap in performance from their freshman to sophomore year.
College baseball is a situation where, in our experience, players and pitchers need to do more, at a higher intensity, with a focus to continually get better in ways we as parents, most often, don't understand, for so many reasons.
In terms of steps to take after HS focused toward going pro, my view is parents, mostly, get out of the way. While they provide support (some financial and some motivational where needed), I believe parents should place their trust and have the belief that their son, his college coaching staff and the strength and conditioning staff will create a process to get that job done off the field and through performance which translates on the field.
Finally, and of equal importance, parents need to appreciate the "steps" to Milb can be a goal, but, as others stated, it has to be the goal of the player and his coaching staff.
The process truly involves the college student athlete realizing he only creates a chance at that opportunity by doing all the hard work and making all the sacrifices to get better every single day of his college career. My view is that it is hard for anyone(such as a parent) not extremely close to the process to realize how much improvement must occur in a short period of time, day, by day, by day.
Some of this involves the player communicating with his parents on what is important to the player and the family respecting those choices rather than planning the choices or doing things which possibly create conflict for those choices.
I believe most student-athletes are the ones who take and create the steps after HS which make them the best college player they can be and which "might" open opportunities after college. As parents, what we can do which might be most helpful is to empower our sons and realize how little we do know or can/should try and control or influence in that process.

Great post infielddad

Excellent post!

One other thing to remember, coaches will not recommend players unless they feel they are commited to getting better (that's how they view the purpose of summer ball).
Most players usually have to prove that they belong in the better leagues, many do play their first summer to gain experience for an opportunity their second or third summer in a more competitive league.

I agree with infielddad, if the player is not playing, he needs to be with the training/conditioning staff or at a facility that is devoted to that purpose. The first summer son didn't play as his arm needed rest, he was up at school, conditioning and working with coaches at camp. The atmosphere is much more conducive to working on what really has to be accomplished under the guidance of those that know what they are doing (and knows what is a good program for the player).

Infield Dad - That should be framed and put on the wall. Thanks

Ok, on the one hand I agree with most of what infielddad had to say, and I am certainly looking for input from those who had sons get drafted.
That said, some parents are more proactive than others, and some young men need that extra assistance, while others thrive completely on their own.
I am not one of those parents who talk to the coaches much if at all. I did check with the HC on winter break as to what my son could do to build on his great fall season(nice write up about him in the media guide). I did not discuss innings played or anything of that nature.
The coach said he was very pleased with my approach looking for things to do to help my son out, but leaving everything else to them. Apparently there are more than a few parents who are all over the coaches about "why is Johnny playing instead of my son".

Now, as to him working out with the coaches/conditioning staff, that was not happening within this program during the summer to the best of our knowledge.
Some kids were in the summer leagues, others went home like my son did with a booklet of what they expected the guys to do. Personally I would love it if his team had such a program, but I guess unlike some other D1 schools like you describe, this team does not have one.

My only goal in posting this thread was to make sure that unlike what happened while he was in HS, we help him do everything he can to achieve the next baseball goal. To him it is to continue to improve and help his team win their conference championship. Needless to say that is what the coaches like to hear. Yet if there are other things he can do in conjunction to help achieve getting drafted, he also wants to do that as well.

Coaches cannot work with players in summer, they work with the conditioning staff. Just an option. Bottom line is if any player puts in limited time and coaches suggest summer ball...you go.

If no one refers you or invites you to a collegiate summer team, you are pretty much done with baseball after college.

I was waiting for an explanation for PUHD post.

I know of many players who sought out leagues on their own because they had the drive and would not take no for an answer when the coach wouldn't help out.
Some of these guys are playing professional ball.

FWIW, most college players do NOT go to play at the professional level.

I guess one thing that confuses me here is that with both of my sons, the coaches had it all set up before they even got to school in the Fall. There was never any 'pushing' necessary by them or anyone else. Just a given.

Guess I thought it was that way at virtually all D1 schools?

My son signed his summer ball contracts in the Fall as well.

Not everyone goes D1, not all coaches follow through with all promises.
Many here know my son's route to Fayetteville, and it had nothing to do with a college coaches recommendation. Funny thing is that after playing for the team 3 seasons the coach has viewed him as a recruiter for their program and my son has reccomended 6 players to the team over the past 2 years, all of whom received ample playing time.

When the normal routes do not work, get the job done any way you can. I think it was January when my guy signed his first contract, maybe February. But each year after his first he signed before he left for school in the Fall.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
If no one refers you or invites you to a collegiate summer team, you are pretty much done with baseball after college.

Wow, tell that to the thousands of amateur league players who continue to play locally regardless of age. Someone better tell them to go home.

Bum, Jr. also signed in the fall. Funny thing is, he ends up transferring to the school where his summerball head coach his freshman year was employed. Worked out well.

quote:

Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
If no one refers you or invites you to a collegiate summer team, you are pretty much done with baseball after college.

Wow, tell that to the thousands of amateur league players who continue to play locally regardless of age. Someone better tell them to go home.

I wasn't clear so my bad, I was referring to pro ball. Maybe one should start looking while they are in spring ball, not wait until fall???? Maybe the above were far more proactive.

Family vacations are certainly important, but I think we made a mistake not having him pitch this summer.
A kid who was at the bottom of the bullpen rotation played in the same league they wanted my son to pitch in. This kid supposedly had a great summer and has earned respect among the coaches on the team. So while a freshman missing the summer league might not have a huge impact on being drafted in 2-3 years, it might very well help this kid to move up the ladder from where he was at the bottom rung.

Players should take every opportunity to play to improve their game, unless the player has really put in way more time than he should (especially pitchers), this is how you get noticed and this is how you do move ahead of others.

What's done is done, you can't go backwards, your son will have to work extremely hard to win a start or prove he is worthy of a summer assignment.

My sons goal since he was 9 was to be a professional baseball player. A lot of effort and planning went into achieving that goal long before HS. Here in Florida we are blessed with the ability to play year round, which is what he did. Mingled in there were hitting instruction, which he received from the age of 10. By the time he was 12 he was also receiving Pitching instruction and by 14 fielding instruction all from professionals that had played a fair amount of pro ball.

He was often one of the better pitchers on every team he played for, so it was important to honestly assess the opportunities for advancing toward his goal. We realized he could be a pitcher or a hitter, but ultimately not both.

He was throwing 90 by his Junior year in HS and could knock a baseball off a tee from 60'6" 2 out of 10 times. And scouts were interested in him.

However he was 5'11" and the odds were not favorable to reaching the next level as a pitcher. He would go stir crazy on the bench anyway. So he focused on hitting and fielding.

He has never taken a family vacation with us during this journey. We have taken family vacations with him, to ballfields a cross the south.

He was always on a travel team, he took the trip to Australia, he would get maybe 4 days off a month since entering HS. Except for the annual break before Thanksgiving until Christmas which was usually free of games, but never free of training.

It is an All In thing, at least for the 5'11" player that does not throw 94+ or hit a home run every 5th at bat.

If you want to achieve the goal of playing professionally it becomes who you are, not the most important thing of who you are, but who you are none the less. And the parents become parents of ball players, it becomes who they are too, not the most important thing, but a part of them (us) none the less. A significant amount of our time has been at ballfields and lessons too. It is an interesting thing how a game can have such an impact on ones life.

floridafan,
Your son is a perfect example of what one has to do to reach a goal, if he wants it bad enough. He will learn in the next few years much more about the game on the prfessional level and what he has to do to remain in the lineup, it never stops.
I get a kick out of folks that come here talking about how their sons want to play ball at the higher D1 level, or the professional level, but think that it just happens if they show any talent. It's hard work, no matter where you fall in skill level.

Players that want to reach these goals (college or professional ball) learn very quickly that for most successful players there is no such thing as spring break, summer breaks or family vacations (other than playing baseball). You have to want it bad enough to do anything or everything to do what you have to, and that includes not turning down invites to play anywhere you can to get better at your position.

If your sons reach some of their goals they will see parts of the US and other places they would not ordinarily see. Now in the eastern league, DK gets to see parts of the US he has never been to and he really enjoys every stop along the way.

Who needs vacation when you get to travel for free?

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
My sons goal since he was 9 was to be a professional baseball player. A lot of effort and planning went into achieving that goal long before HS. Here in Florida we are blessed with the ability to play year round, which is what he did.

We realized he could be a pitcher or a hitter, but ultimately not both.

He was throwing 90 by his Junior year in HS and could knock a baseball off a tee from 60'6" 2 out of 10 times. And scouts were interested in him.

However he was 5'11" and the odds were not favorable to reaching the next level as a pitcher. He would go stir crazy on the bench anyway. So he focused on hitting and fielding.

Aside from a few differences, our sons paths sound similar.
My son started playing at an instructional academy at the age of 3, but the program did not get competitive until around 8 or so.
Our son also played several positions, but we were blessed to have a knowledgeable person sit us down and explain that he was a good hitter/position player, but a great pitcher, so we needed to go pitching only because he would go no further than HS as a position player. So we concentrated on pitching exclusively, and once he learned all he could from me and local coaches, we got him top instructors to help him develop.
He has yet to hit 90, but is projected to do so. Aside from our sons size difference 5'11" vs. 6'5", they did many things the same and both desire to play as long as they can.

You are right about playing baseball year round down here in the sunshine state.
Yet it is clear that where we took family vacations most summers, your son played a lot more baseball during that time.
I cannot say I regret it because we made wonderful memories that will last a lifetime, but the baseball opportunities might have suffered as a result. Still he is playing in college, and was called on as a freshman to pitch in a conference game.

This thread has certainly showed me that this summer in Ireland will be the last together for at least 3 years. As strange as it sounds, hopefully it will be the last together for many years beyond, because I assume most drafted kids do not have much summer time free.

I have known FF since his son was in high school, and IMO no one that I know personally has worked as hard as he has to have his son seen by a LOT of people.

Instructional academy at 3?

If I remember correctly you came here a few years ago not understanding why your son who had so much upside but no interest? Didn't those top instructors explain that to you? I would have thought that by now you would understand what it takes to get to the level he would like to someday.
Projection doesn't always become a reality, and a pitcher these days is not drafted on projection alone, but rather if he gets people out and what they throw to get them out. There's certain criteria a 3-4 year college pitcher needs to even be a consideration. The draft has become more and more competitive, and a lot of it is based on metrics as well. The most important being how he pitches against wood. The more wood they see while in college the better they become, for all players. That means playing during summer and working on becoming stronger even before they get back to campus.

I would suggest that you might consider letting your son take responsibilty for his future and discuss these options with the coaches you sent him to play with. They are the ones that will help make it happen along with the trainers and those that work on his conditioning.
FWIW, professional ball begins each season with spring training, ML begins in Feb and milb in march with some milb players asked to come early for training with the big leaguers. Championship season begins first week in april and goes to first week in september, then there are league and division playoffs. Some variations between levels.

I am surprised at yuor statement maybe you are unaware of the fact that professional players get paid to play, therefore they have no time to do anything but that in summer.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
The most important being how he pitches against wood. The more wood they see while in college the better they become, for all players. That means playing during summer and working on becoming stronger even before they get back to campus.

I just saw this thread and wish to comment here. I am not a big fan of college baseball. Yes, it gives a player time to get a degree and mature, but from a sheer baseball perspective I thought it was a waste of time. Summerball was important, though.

I saw this because from what I've seen college baseball favors junk sliders and junk pitchers in general. I saw it over and over how the top-ERA guys against metal got shelled against wood in the summer, and the high-ERA guys against metal dominated against wood.

It was a negative correlation for the most part.

My theory on this is purely my own. But from what I saw, the college guys crowd the plate and a well-placed fastball inside that pops up or cracks a bat against wood is a double down the line in college. I saw 5'8" second basemen hit oppo homers.

College baseball doesn't really have any correlation to pro, IMHO. All it is is a minor league for the minor leagues.

I know this is controversial, but so be it. Just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
I am not a big fan of college baseball. Yes, it gives a player time to get a degree and mature, but from a sheer baseball perspective I thought it was a waste of time. Summerball was important, though.

In my sons case, unless someone drafted him on projectibility, he physically was not ready to be drafted.
I'd say he is/was about a year behind other kids in his physical maturity with barely a whisker and still in his boys body. I also think he lacked the emotional maturity as well. So college seems like a perfect avenue.
At 6'5" he is still only about a solid 190 even though he thinks he is 197 because he made that weight after a huge meal.

Anyway, I am glad you also feel summer ball is one of the important paths to take. We will certainly be looking to get him into the best summer league that will have him. We will just go on vacation without him this year.

`

Not sure I agree with no vacation. Vacations don't have to be long. 3-5 days can be great. Our son discovered scalloping this summer. He absolutely loved it. He went immediately after East Cobb and before his next tournament. Brought his bands, glove, etc. with him. You might miss a bullpen, but he always found a field and a net to throw into. I think those short respites keep a person fresh.

quote:

College baseball doesn't really have any correlation to pro, IMHO.

Hmmmm. I believe I get your points, but I do not agree with this particular comment.

quote:

Originally posted by smalltownmom:
Not sure I agree with no vacation. Vacations don't have to be long. 3-5 days can be great. Our son discovered scalloping this summer. He absolutely loved it. He went immediately after East Cobb and before his next tournament. Brought his bands, glove, etc. with him. You might miss a bullpen, but he always found a field and a net to throw into. I think those short respites keep a person fresh.

I agree that one needs a break but I think that he was referring to college summer ball. Many begin right after school is out and end before school begins.

I understand the statement made about college ball not relating to proball, however, IMO their are good things to be found in the college game. I felt that instruction was better in college (pitching) than in the milb system. Lot of that is changing, but the best coaching staff is in ML for a reason.

There are junk guys in proball as well, depends on the organization. In AA TL there was a relief pitcher whose FB was 80 and his change up 69. They are there, but most aren't going very far. And the higher you move up the better and smarter the hitters become and they crowd the plate, often. Saw very little junk sliders in college.

You will find it interesting that after the players first season, pitching mechanics (and mechanics for hitters) will go through an overhaul. It's not even close to college summer ball. Very few if any come prepared to enter into the higher levels the first few years.

The big difference for me, between the two is the FB and how the pitcher uses it.

As far as the better pitching, depends upon the conference, IMO.

All of this is just a personal observation.