What to do?

SeedThrower ...

We heard similar complaints from a couple of our son's teammates (actually, from their parents) when he was in college, and I found it interesting that the pitching coach that they felt was not honest seemed more than honest to our son and most of his peers. In one particular case, it was definitely just a matter of personalities clashing and there just was no way around it (the pitching coach was hired after the pitcher had been recruited and they had not had a chance to work together ... )

But that being said, I would ask if your son has talked with the pitching coach about this, and if so and it was not productive, did he ask to meet with the head coach (with or without the pitching coach in attendance)?

You ask :

quote:

If a coaching staff brings you in with all kinds of scholarship money and then don't use you or will tell you why they aren't using you, why do you owe them any kind of an explanation?

If it were my son, no matter the circumstance, I do believe that the player WHOSE EDUCATION WAS BEING PAID FOR BY THE BASEBALL PROGRAM does indeed owe an explanation to the coaches who arranged for the scholarship. From my perspective, if nothing else, it is a matter of courtesy to do so. Also, as I am sure you are learning, college coaches at all levels know each other and 'network' quite a bit. If a player leaves on really negative terms, which I believe your son would be doing if he didn't have a 'sit down' with the coaches, it 'gets around' to other coaches (and to pro scouts as well) and can leave a dark cloud over your son's reputation and possibly impact his future. It may not be right/fair/etc., but it is nevertheless part of life.

I would recommend that your son sit down with the pitching coach (if he has not) and the head coach (if he has not) and put his cards on the table. Then, if there is still a feeling that he is 'not wanted' or whatever is causing them to keep him from the mound, and he still wants to leave, he can go with a clear conscience.

I wish him well. This is never an easy situation and as a parent, I know your heart is aching for him as well.

quote:

Originally posted by SeedThrower:
I'm hoping to get some help from some members who may have been through this predicament.

Son is in his first year at a D1 school. He was recruited by many D1's and passed on some nice opportunities to go with his current school. Draft came and went without him getting drafted. He would have been a 6th rounder if he wanted to accept the money being offered, he turned it down due to the size of his scholarship. Jump ahead to March of this year....son is languishing on the bench behind JC college level pitchers that were brought in. The team barely is above .500 and the pitching is average at best. The pitching coach has turned out to be nothing more than a liar and son has about had it with this guy. Son has been told he would be starting a couple games and for whatever reason is told someone else would be starting with no kind of a reason for it.

I feel terrible because I told him he should go to school to get himself an education and to get better. He was an honor roll student in hs and is getting good grades at college. The problem is he really dislikes school and now can't stand to be around his pitching coach who he considers to be untrustworthy. I've done my best to try to have him keep his chin up and remind him that this is only a period that will end. Son has spoken to his advisor and I think is laying the ground work to bolt out of this situation.
With the rules the way they currently are is his only option to go to a JC so he can pitch next year?
I hate to see this happen and I wish I could let the coaches know what is about to be happening, but I refuse to get involved. Shoot, part of me thinks the kid might be making a good move. If a coaching staff brings you in with all kinds of scholarship money and then don't use you or will tell you why they aren't using you, why do you owe them any kind of an explanation?

I am not understanding the above post at all, other than this is an unhappy freshman player not getting the playing time he feels he deserves and a parent who feels that the pitching staff is average, possibly their player could do a better job?

How many times have we stated here that very often freshman at d1 programs DON'T play? Also, the amount of scholarship does not mean more playing time to a freshman pitcher, sometimes it is based on experience. IMO, coaches don't have to make explanations regarding their coaching. It is up to the player, who doesn't understand to set a meeting and discuss it.
How has the coach lied? Has he pitched at all?

I agree with FBM, his concerns should be addressed with the coaching staff, the ones who gave him the opportunity, not the advisor.

Take a step back and ask yourself, if he pitched, How did he really do? Is he pitching at all? Freshman year is difficult for most, even draftees. The stuff that went by high school kids all day, gets bumped around the park in college.

Whatever he does, don't go into the coach and say "My advisor says this and my advisor says that." That is absolutely the kiss of death. Coaches hate those guys messing with their team.

Seedthrower,

Personally, I think your son will do just fine where he’s at. Of course, I’m not aware of all the other issues, but looking at the roster there are only four pitchers who have thrown more innings. Three of the four are juniors the other is a senior. He also is one of 5 pitchers to have started a game for that team this year. I understand it was only two starts.

Anyway, transferring can be a beech. Juco is an option, but academically it sounds like he is doing well. I understand the frustration, but he is a freshman and a good one. I think his time will come.

Obviously you are on top of this situation and it is tough. It’s all up to what you want to do, though. But IMO your son is good enough to make a big impact right where he’s at before it’s all said and done. Where will he be pitching this summer?

Good luck

My son had been in somewhat that position not that long ago--the only differnce is that he was a position player/hitter. Most of us are inexperienced parents in the land of OZ--all we want is for our kid to be happy. As far as coaches always telling the truth ---they don't. What is right for some is not always the best answer for others. My son went the JC route after transferring from a Div 1---that can be a scarey ride in it self.
Have your son talk to the coaching staff and inquire what their plans are for him--if he gets a satisfactory answer--stay. If not move on to plan B.
But they are right when they say that a coach can make or break your kids career on his "opinion"--despite the motivation of that opinion not being completely fair to your son. Until then--tell him to work hard, stay focused, and be team player so he is ready when his chance does come. Good Luck!

quote:

How many times have we stated here that very often freshman at d1 programs DON'T play? Also, the amount of scholarship does not mean more playing time to a freshman pitcher, sometimes it is based on experience. IMO, coaches don't have to make explanations regarding their coaching.

Lots of truth in the above statements. At my son's future school, a 4-year program, very few of the current freshmen are getting any significant playing time. I also know of several situations at various schools where early signee/big scholarship money players sat while spring signee/books only-type players started.

While I agree that coaches don't have to make explanations regarding their coaching decisions, I think it's the right/kind/helpful thing to do. It can help eliminate misunderstandings and the resulting anger and bitterness which can follow and can possibly motivate players to improve in needed areas such as attitude, work ethic, performance issues, etc. Also, it may prevent departures to other schools, which can hurt both the athlete and the program in the long run.

Bob,
You are correct, for new parents going through this situation it's perplexing, for us who have been there, it's a bit easier to understand.
We want the best for our boys, but most of all we want them to be happy.
It's very hard to not understand why our sons who did so well in HS now have to sit and watch those that may not be as talented go before them. Sometimes it's not all about that, especially in college. Caoches do different hings for different reasons, one thing I have noticed, if they have other options, they will limit freshman, position players as well as pitchers. They may need them healthy and stronger next season and the seaosn after that. Unless major injuries occur, or the draft hit the team hard, very few make significant impact the first year.

I think that PG most likely is more familiar with the situation and I urge seedthrower to listen carefully to what he suggests.

We've all been down the road, somewhere along the way we all feel that our son's get cheated somewhere, sometime, for some reason. May it be not getting into the school of their choice, playing too much, playing too little, not making varsity, not making the travel squad, not getting drafted out of HS, often times being patient is the key.

Just a story to share I have posted before about a player who was highly regarded in HS as a top pitcher from his state. He also gave up draft possibilites to play in college. His first year, he didn't get one start as a pitcher, either relieved or closed and was very unhappy with 16 innings total for the season. Two years later he was considered the ace of the team and 4th draft pick in 2007. His mom told me once looking back she was very happy he didn't pitch that much his first year, as he pitched that summer, the following year had a bigger role then played USA for the summer going into his junior season. Sometimes, for pitchers, it's best to get limited innings as a freshman, and learn the college game. Sometimes it doesn't make sense, but trust me, it does, eventually. I felt mine got too much in his first year and because of that passed up going to play at teh cape, an important summer for him, but knowing he would be used often, it most likely was the best choice for him, though we didn't realize it at the time. While some worry about teh lack of playing time, as parents we worried about how much he was used, though he was used carefully. Don't think that 228 innings in college plus summer ball doesn't wear one out.

I do beleive that in the end, everything works out well for most players. I often see the ones who rush into change without being patient suffer more than those that stay, things do have a way of working out.

quote:

Originally posted by SeedThrower:
Shoot, part of me thinks the kid might be making a good move. If a coaching staff brings you in with all kinds of scholarship money and then don't use you or will tell you why they aren't using you, why do you owe them any kind of an explanation?

Seed - We were in a similar spot (as parents) - several years ago. Big scholly - all sorts of promises - turned down lots of great schools - and then gets redshirted as soon as he walks onto the campus in the fall. Basically - he was sold a total BS story. It happens.

He made it worse by staying another year - and totally wasting his time.

Then he got the hell out.

IMO - Some folks' stripes dont change.
I think your son is making a good decision - or at least trying to.

Good luck.

Seed there is good advice in this thread - both ways - advice for going and staying. I say you listen to your gut insticts. It sounds perhaps that your son's draft status may be leading to a sense of entitlement. There is none at the D1 level that I am aware of.

The best I can tell, the fall season is crucial for freshman. Some kids will call home and say something like "I am pitching well this fall, my ERA is 0.00 this fall" What they might not tell you is that many of them are being rocketed all over the place but just happen to be getting caught by people. Another kid might say "I am hitting over .400 this fall" Again, it is possible that many of the base hits are nubbers. Not suggesting anything about your son, but coaches tend to play people who can perform. It is possible that body language or some other implied cue gave the impression your son lacked confidence in some way. Also, some kids don't react well to failure. If you show attitude or poor body language when things don't go your way, it can affect the coach's confidence in some kid. When my son was not playing as a freshman, my advice to him was to assume that if his name was not on the lineup card, then he was not good enough. I would not entertain discussions about how well other kids were performing with him. If he is not playing, don't blame the coach, get better. Not suggesting the coach still might not be mistaken, but focus on those things he can control.

Relax, He is a freshman. He is still learning the college game. He has been in some games and has done ok. Looks pretty normal for a D1 freshman they expect many more innings IN THE FUTURE.

Pitches he got away with in HS sometimes don't fly (or really do) in college. Moves he made in HS may not have attracted attention, but become balks in college and beyond.

I do suggest he go talk to the coaches and ask, but something tells me he knows the answer.

Still it is his and his family's decision as to whether or not it is time to move on. I had one son to move due to a coach moving him from a overhand high 80's low 90's mid week starter his first year 5-1 1.12 era, to a sidearm/underhand set up guy the following fall. So I do feel your pain.

Coming off a high school team with maybe 1-2 pitchers onto a team that now probably has at least 15 pitchers.

There will be 15 whereever you go too.

If he's pitched in some games as a freshman and 1 of 5 pitchers to get some innings, he's doing well as a freshman at a D1.

Give him some time to prove himself.

Remember when he was a freshman in high school?

It starts all over again.

Good luck.

Big scholarship does not translate to playing time.

quote:

son is languishing on the bench behind JC college level pitchers that were brought in.

I'd hope he is "learning" how to be a team player.
Juco pitchers have at least a year or more experience pitching to college level hitters.
Hopefully he turned down 6th round because he wanted to get an education, AND have time to develop...both physically & mentally/emotionally.
Coaches change their mind on starters/relievers all the time. Key, here, is that your son has an "I'm ready to contribute to my TEAM any time I'm needed", attitude all the time.
Sometimes, coaches want to see how a kid "responds" to the news that someone else gets the nod, etc. It's all about being ready when "opportunity" presents itself...
I really hope he gets over his disappointment, & can fulfill his "role" this season as a team player.

Please encourage patience, & emphasize that freshman year is all about growth & transition. The season just started...he's pitched some...capitalize on opportunity & work to be the best HE can be.
He'll be fine!

Baseballmom,
Great post!

Great advice---to all the threads! Patience is a hard thing to learn even as an adult. My son is a JUCO transfer sitting behind a senior. It has been tough on him going from being a starter to taking what gets thrown his way. But he continues to work hard (on and off the field)both physically and mentally. He takes his role on the team whether it be behind the plate in a reliever situation, bullpen, or DH very seriously. He has focused on taking that time to prove himself as a producer to his teamates and coaches. Don't get me wrong we have had some sad phone calls from him but by the end of our conversation he is recharged and back on track. Our kids feed off of us---we need to stay positive , listen to them, and keep them moving forward.

Thanks for all your replies!

I know you all do not know the entire situation and that is the hard part. If everyone could understand the things that were said during the recruiting process and conversations the pitching coach had with me when they expressed how badly they wanted my son and the promise of how they will make him into a top three round pick. I can see by some of the posts that many people are doing some assuming. Be rest assured that any decision that would be made regarding him transferring would completely be his. We have also raised him to be humble and not have attitude or be cocky. He is very easy to get along with and has lots of friends, pretty happy go lucky.

I can only help guide my son, he is an adult now and this is HIS career not mine. I have thrown out the words and phrases of know your role, learning and growing, being a good teammate, when you get your opportunities run with it, keep your chin up, this time will pass, suck it up. This whole ordeal hurts me because I know that this is only a short time in his life and he will get through it being a stronger person and hopefully a better pitcher. It really doesn't matter to me where he pitches at, but I like to see him finish it out where he is at. Not to mention all the money we have already sunk into the gear. (t-shirts, hats, hoodies)

I did have him look at responses on here when I called him last night so we'll see if that helps, but in talking to him I can hear it in his voice. "I have had it with a coach who tries to manipulate people and I can't believe anything he says. I don't want to go through with another year of this." There are other things he said regarding how his teammates feel about the situation but I won't print that and don't think it would be fair.

BTW, I have urged my son to sit down and talk with the coach. He feels uncomfortable in doing that at this point, although I keep telling him this is how adults work out differences and get things resolved. He feels the coach will just shoot down anything my son has to say. It's sad that son feels that way. Maybe it would be best for him to move on.

PG, He is signed to pitch in the Northwoods League this summer for the Green Bay affiliate.

Thank you to the one person who PM'd me regarding what I was looking for, transfer rules and some place that he might be looking to transfer to. I didn't want this to turn into what it has.

Seedthrower,

been reading the post. people give you their opinions, and in the end it is your son, your family. You are right you cant put every detail on a site, and people reading it get sometimes a portion of whole story. I wish your son the best. We havent crossed this bridge yet.But our boys are becoming adults and they have to begin to make adult decisions, these decisions may not turn out to be the right ones and we have to sit and sometimes suffer with them or rejoice if it works out.There is no clear cut right and wrong on these types of things.I hope it all turns out good for your son and your family.

Seedthrower--
PM me and we can talk further about this--been there done that...and still doing it. I know exactly how you feel.---been in the Northwoods also.

quote:

the promise of how they will make him into a top three round pick.

There was some kid from an ACC school. I can't remember his name. He wasn't a weekend starter until his junior year. He went in the second round of last year's draft.

Your son has three or four years to become a high draft choice. Do you think they only recruited three potential weekend starters?