voodoo, there have been much larger penalties handed out in other sports. Baseball may be a matter of time. Why take any chances?
Yes, Sowers missed about 30% of his starts and that would really irk me if I was his dad, so we will have an advisor only. If it was your son, you would probably call him an advisor also.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
voodoo, there have been much larger penalties handed out in other sports.
Such as?
voodoo, there have been much larger penalties handed out in other sports.
Such as?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bbscout:
"Yes, Sowers missed about 30% of his starts and that would really irk me if I was his dad, so we will have an advisor only."
Sowers missed a total of 6 of his teams'games. As a starting pitcher, that means he missed 2 starts. How does that constitute 30% of his starts?
"If it was your son, you would probably call him an advisor also."
If my Son grows enough to be a draft prospect, I won't worry about the NCAA. They'll have to worry about me. You can call me whatever you want. "You can throw your boots in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits" An Agent is an Agent is an Agent.
"Yes, Sowers missed about 30% of his starts and that would really irk me if I was his dad, so we will have an advisor only."
Sowers missed a total of 6 of his teams'games. As a starting pitcher, that means he missed 2 starts. How does that constitute 30% of his starts?
"If it was your son, you would probably call him an advisor also."
If my Son grows enough to be a draft prospect, I won't worry about the NCAA. They'll have to worry about me. You can call me whatever you want. "You can throw your boots in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits" An Agent is an Agent is an Agent.
OK, my bad......Sowers missed two starts. That is two starts more than need be . It could have been handled with ease and it should have been handled without a penalty to a fine young pitcher.
If you want to fight the NCAA over the word advisor/agent, be my guest. Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too.
If you want to fight the NCAA over the word advisor/agent, be my guest. Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bbscout:
"OK, my bad......Sowers missed two starts. That is two starts more than need be . It could have been handled with ease and it should have been handled without a penalty to a fine young pitcher."
Wasn't trying to start an argument. I agree with you 100% re: the fact that Sowers' situation could have been handled better. However, it doesn't seem to have hurt Jeremy's career.
Over the years I have represented MANY players who turned down the draft & played in D1 schools with no problem. Have a client I represented 3 years ago playing right now for a major D1 school who'll be drafted in June.
"Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too."
Thanks sincerely for your kind wishes. Hope the same for you & yours as well.
"OK, my bad......Sowers missed two starts. That is two starts more than need be . It could have been handled with ease and it should have been handled without a penalty to a fine young pitcher."
Wasn't trying to start an argument. I agree with you 100% re: the fact that Sowers' situation could have been handled better. However, it doesn't seem to have hurt Jeremy's career.
Over the years I have represented MANY players who turned down the draft & played in D1 schools with no problem. Have a client I represented 3 years ago playing right now for a major D1 school who'll be drafted in June.
"Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too."
Thanks sincerely for your kind wishes. Hope the same for you & yours as well.
so what's the distinction between advisor/agent with regard to NCAA?
got me confused...again..
got me confused...again..
voodoochile ...
That is absolutely one of the funniest lines I have ever read ... especially since you obviously haven't tasted my biscuits.
Thanks for the lift ... some lines are just too funny to go un-noticed.
H-mom
********************
Go Highlanders ! ! ! !
********************
quote:
You can throw your boots in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits
That is absolutely one of the funniest lines I have ever read ... especially since you obviously haven't tasted my biscuits.
Thanks for the lift ... some lines are just too funny to go un-noticed.
H-mom
********************
Go Highlanders ! ! ! !
********************
quote:
Originally posted by Texas2004:
so what's the distinction between advisor/agent with regard to NCAA?
got me confused...again..
Sorry to confuse you Tex. From a strictly technical point of view, the NCAA sees an Advisor as someone who gives you advice on how to handle negotiations yourself but that's it i.e. he never talks to the team only tells you how to talk to the team. It's like a Dr. telling you how to do surgery on yourself.
An Agent handles all the aspects of the negotiations from trying to help create interest in a player to the final signed contract.
quote:
Originally posted by pops:
Detroit may be lacking, but Boras is not, and in the tightening of the belt times that are going on right now, he may just prove his worth again.
FROM : askba@baseballamerica.com.
By Jim Callis
Jan. 16, 2004
Does anyone really believe that there's spirited competition for Greg Maddux' services? The only thing more far-fetched is the idea that Ivan Rodriguez entered the offseason hoping he'd wind up in Detroit. If I were running the Cubs, I'd give Maddux and agent Scott Boras a deadline and move on, rather than be played in a bidding war that doesn't exist.
Pudge 4 years 40 million its official.
If I am not mistaken,isn't it only 2 years guarenteed. Doesn't that make it 2 year 20 million. If that is the case, wasn't the Florida offer better? I don't know the facts yet.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
Found this on the mlb website.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
quote:
After an unexpected three-week courtship that began with Rodriguez still on the market in mid-January, the finishing touches were put on the deal late Sunday night between the Tigers and agent Scott Boras. It includes clauses that allow the Tigers to end the deal early if Rodriguez spends more than five weeks on the disabled list with a lumbar spinal injury in one of the next three seasons. There's also a $13 million team option for 2008, which the Tigers can either pick up or buy out for $3 million.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
Here's what I found,
He also said:
Frank
PASSION - "There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
quote:
Rodriguez gets $7 million this year, $8 million in 2005 and $11 million each in 2006 and 2007, according to contract information obtained by The Associated Press. The Tigers have a $13 million option for 2008 with a $3 million buyout.
Rodriguez would get $50 million over five years if the option is exercised or $40 million over four if it’s declined.
He also said:
quote:
Rodriguez, 32, said the reported offer of $24 million over three years from the Marlins was inaccurate. Some of the money in that proposal wasn’t guaranteed and much would have been deferred.
‘‘If that offer was true, I would’ve probably taken that offer, but it was not that offer,’’ he said.
Frank
PASSION - "There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
1) Fla. has no State income tax therefore the Marlins' offer was worth more than it seemed on the surface.
2) As poorly as this deal was handled leading to all the bad feeling this has generated, even if Detroit offered double what the Marlins did is it worth it to a man who already had more than he could spend in 2 lifetimes? Says
something about the man he is I guess.
Posted on Tue, Feb. 03, 2004
Bottom line: Pudge makes a dash for dollars
DAN LE BATARD
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/7860711.htm
2) As poorly as this deal was handled leading to all the bad feeling this has generated, even if Detroit offered double what the Marlins did is it worth it to a man who already had more than he could spend in 2 lifetimes? Says
something about the man he is I guess.
Posted on Tue, Feb. 03, 2004
Bottom line: Pudge makes a dash for dollars
DAN LE BATARD
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/7860711.htm
VC,
I agree but you left one thing out, endorsements he would have gotten from the latin/tri county communities might have made up the difference. I guess his agent overlooked that.
I think it was more about ego rather than dollars and sense.
I agree but you left one thing out, endorsements he would have gotten from the latin/tri county communities might have made up the difference. I guess his agent overlooked that.
I think it was more about ego rather than dollars and sense.
Love Pudge's play, but this is a man with life-sized bronze statues of himself in his garden (per SI article...with pics). Ego? Ya think?
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
quote:
Originally posted by baseonballs50:
VC,
I agree but you left one thing out, endorsements he would have gotten from the latin/tri county communities might have made up the difference. I guess his agent overlooked that.
I think it was more about ego rather than dollars and sense.
Not ego. EGO! Both his & his Agent.
Orlando,
I tried that one.
My wife had a different idea. She suggested I make a life-size pinata of myself - and also requested that I order her a nice 32-29 Omaha Classic bat for use on the pinata.
Needless to say - Im a bit concerned. LOL
I tried that one.
My wife had a different idea. She suggested I make a life-size pinata of myself - and also requested that I order her a nice 32-29 Omaha Classic bat for use on the pinata.
Needless to say - Im a bit concerned. LOL
The good news, its, is that she was still willing to only go after the pinata-you with the bat....it's when she skips the pinata and goes straight to the 'original' that you have to worry! 
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
The last thing a Player wants is to hear his negotiations described as "lose-lose".
Can't link the story so here it is from BB Amer:
Pudge’s contract turned into worst-case scenario
by Mike Berardino
February 14, 2004
FORT LAUDERDALE—Lenny Harris has seen Cooperstown-level catching greatness up close before.
When he was with the Mets’ 2000 pennant winner, Harris lockered next to Mike Piazza and marveled at his ability to dial up the intensity. Baseball’s career pinch-hits leader got the same sort of feeling last season dressing next to Ivan “Pudge” Rodriguez in the Marlins clubhouse.
“Pudge is a special player,” said Harris, who joined the club in August. “Just like Piazza, he really gets focused for a game, gets locked in. It’s just the intensity those guys have when that bell rings.”
The great Don Mattingly would stand in front of his locker in those final moments before Yankees games, silently swinging a bat, letting his teammates know it was time to get serious. The way Harris sees it, Rodriguez carries the same sort of inspirational heft.
Especially after leading the upstart Marlins through an unlikely run to the World Series title.
“Thirty minutes before the game, Pudge gets stretched out and goes down to the cage and hits,” Harris said. “It’s like watching Ray Lewis play a football game. That’s how this guy prepares himself to play a ballgame. It’s tough to find that anywhere.”
Welcome To Detroit
Crazy as it sounds, Rodriguez will be found displaying that intensity for at least the next two years (and possibly four) in Detroit, of all places.
The Tigers—the lowly, 119-loss Tigers—were the only ones willing to meet the catcher’s demands for a four-year, $40 million contract, even if they weighed it down with more escape hatches than a Hollywood prenup.
If the catcher misses at least five weeks with a lumbar spine injury in either of the next two seasons, for instance, the contract can be voided after he’s made just $15 million. Break a wrist and he’s golden, but don’t mess with the back, man.
You can say Rodriguez left for the money, but team sources say the Marlins’ final offer way back on Dec. 7 actually guaranteed the catcher more cash than the deal he eventually signed with the Tigers.
The Marlins, who were contractually prohibited from offering Rodriguez arbitration, apparently offered him two years and $16 million with a vesting option that could have pushed the total value to $24 million.
Factor in Michigan’s 4 percent state income tax—Florida has none—and the Marlins’ guarantee was $1.6 million (or 11 percent) richer.
Rodriguez disputes those numbers. After signing with the Tigers and getting ripped in the South Florida media, he called a press conference at his opulent Miami Beach home to give his side of the story.
“I just asked them for something fair for my family, for myself and for the club,” he said. “They offered me $6.5 million a year for the next two seasons, and the way they wanted to pay me the money, I don’t think that was fair.”
With heavy and lengthy deferments, the Marlins’ offer, according to Rodriguez, would have wound up totaling closer to $10 million in net present value. That’s not much more than the $9.32 million in NPV they paid to rent Rodriguez for just the 2003 season.
“I feel a little disappointed because I thought they would have treated me a little better,” Rodriguez said. “I would have felt much happier if they told me, ‘Listen, we can’t afford you. You can’t be with us,’ and probably I walk out very happy. The way they did all these negotiations for me was a little tough.”
Not saying Rodriguez was having a hard time letting go, but he said this three days after signing with the Tigers and nearly two full months after cutting ties with the Marlins.
Countered Marlins president David Samson: “We wish him the best success in Detroit and hope that his two-year guaranteed contract turns into four.”
Ouch.
Plenty Of Pride
Simply put, this parting was all about pride. On both sides.
And neither Rodriguez nor the Marlins is better for the experience.
Instead of playing another couple of years at home, taking his kids to school and building on a burgeoning local legend, Rodriguez must spend his Aprils in freezing temperatures, trying to survive as a righthanded hitter at cavernous Comerica Park.
Instead of overpaying slightly and going along with their catcher’s understandable resistance to a pay cut, the Marlins will try to defend their title with Mike Redmond and Ramon Castro behind the plate.
Call it a lose-lose negotiation.
Surely there have been quickie divorces that have ended more messily than this one, but Britney Spears and Jason Allen Alexander appear almost dignified by comparison.
“I love Pudge,” one Marlins official said. “The guy is a heck of a player. He helped us win a championship. But man, what an ego.”
Now might be a good time to get out your pocket schedules and circle June 11-13. We can hardly wait for the Marlins to make that interleague visit to Detroit so the mud can start flying again.
Mike Berardino is the national baseball writer at the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. He can be reached at mberardino@sun-sentinel.com.
Can't link the story so here it is from BB Amer:
Pudge’s contract turned into worst-case scenario
by Mike Berardino
February 14, 2004
FORT LAUDERDALE—Lenny Harris has seen Cooperstown-level catching greatness up close before.
When he was with the Mets’ 2000 pennant winner, Harris lockered next to Mike Piazza and marveled at his ability to dial up the intensity. Baseball’s career pinch-hits leader got the same sort of feeling last season dressing next to Ivan “Pudge” Rodriguez in the Marlins clubhouse.
“Pudge is a special player,” said Harris, who joined the club in August. “Just like Piazza, he really gets focused for a game, gets locked in. It’s just the intensity those guys have when that bell rings.”
The great Don Mattingly would stand in front of his locker in those final moments before Yankees games, silently swinging a bat, letting his teammates know it was time to get serious. The way Harris sees it, Rodriguez carries the same sort of inspirational heft.
Especially after leading the upstart Marlins through an unlikely run to the World Series title.
“Thirty minutes before the game, Pudge gets stretched out and goes down to the cage and hits,” Harris said. “It’s like watching Ray Lewis play a football game. That’s how this guy prepares himself to play a ballgame. It’s tough to find that anywhere.”
Welcome To Detroit
Crazy as it sounds, Rodriguez will be found displaying that intensity for at least the next two years (and possibly four) in Detroit, of all places.
The Tigers—the lowly, 119-loss Tigers—were the only ones willing to meet the catcher’s demands for a four-year, $40 million contract, even if they weighed it down with more escape hatches than a Hollywood prenup.
If the catcher misses at least five weeks with a lumbar spine injury in either of the next two seasons, for instance, the contract can be voided after he’s made just $15 million. Break a wrist and he’s golden, but don’t mess with the back, man.
You can say Rodriguez left for the money, but team sources say the Marlins’ final offer way back on Dec. 7 actually guaranteed the catcher more cash than the deal he eventually signed with the Tigers.
The Marlins, who were contractually prohibited from offering Rodriguez arbitration, apparently offered him two years and $16 million with a vesting option that could have pushed the total value to $24 million.
Factor in Michigan’s 4 percent state income tax—Florida has none—and the Marlins’ guarantee was $1.6 million (or 11 percent) richer.
Rodriguez disputes those numbers. After signing with the Tigers and getting ripped in the South Florida media, he called a press conference at his opulent Miami Beach home to give his side of the story.
“I just asked them for something fair for my family, for myself and for the club,” he said. “They offered me $6.5 million a year for the next two seasons, and the way they wanted to pay me the money, I don’t think that was fair.”
With heavy and lengthy deferments, the Marlins’ offer, according to Rodriguez, would have wound up totaling closer to $10 million in net present value. That’s not much more than the $9.32 million in NPV they paid to rent Rodriguez for just the 2003 season.
“I feel a little disappointed because I thought they would have treated me a little better,” Rodriguez said. “I would have felt much happier if they told me, ‘Listen, we can’t afford you. You can’t be with us,’ and probably I walk out very happy. The way they did all these negotiations for me was a little tough.”
Not saying Rodriguez was having a hard time letting go, but he said this three days after signing with the Tigers and nearly two full months after cutting ties with the Marlins.
Countered Marlins president David Samson: “We wish him the best success in Detroit and hope that his two-year guaranteed contract turns into four.”
Ouch.
Plenty Of Pride
Simply put, this parting was all about pride. On both sides.
And neither Rodriguez nor the Marlins is better for the experience.
Instead of playing another couple of years at home, taking his kids to school and building on a burgeoning local legend, Rodriguez must spend his Aprils in freezing temperatures, trying to survive as a righthanded hitter at cavernous Comerica Park.
Instead of overpaying slightly and going along with their catcher’s understandable resistance to a pay cut, the Marlins will try to defend their title with Mike Redmond and Ramon Castro behind the plate.
Call it a lose-lose negotiation.
Surely there have been quickie divorces that have ended more messily than this one, but Britney Spears and Jason Allen Alexander appear almost dignified by comparison.
“I love Pudge,” one Marlins official said. “The guy is a heck of a player. He helped us win a championship. But man, what an ego.”
Now might be a good time to get out your pocket schedules and circle June 11-13. We can hardly wait for the Marlins to make that interleague visit to Detroit so the mud can start flying again.
Mike Berardino is the national baseball writer at the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. He can be reached at mberardino@sun-sentinel.com.
vc,
Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients. Also, could you name some of the clients you have represented in the past? Thanks!
Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients. Also, could you name some of the clients you have represented in the past? Thanks!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrOctober:
vc,
"Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients."
The worst "thieves" are the "Beverly Hills Sports Council". Jeff Moorad "stole" IRod from Scott Boras then IRod went back to Boras. Manny Ramirez has been represented by almost everyone in the biz except me before Moorad "stole" him a few years back. Same thing with Raul Mondesi.
Luis Catillo was signed with literally 5 different agents last year during the World Series until the MLBPA intervened & made him choose one. The list goes on & on & on.
If I list my clients, I may as well post my address, phone number, social security number, bithday & favorite color. I prefer not to.
vc,
"Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients."
The worst "thieves" are the "Beverly Hills Sports Council". Jeff Moorad "stole" IRod from Scott Boras then IRod went back to Boras. Manny Ramirez has been represented by almost everyone in the biz except me before Moorad "stole" him a few years back. Same thing with Raul Mondesi.
Luis Catillo was signed with literally 5 different agents last year during the World Series until the MLBPA intervened & made him choose one. The list goes on & on & on.
If I list my clients, I may as well post my address, phone number, social security number, bithday & favorite color. I prefer not to.
I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal.
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal.
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
Hard to give you a number. Usually, Players will follow your advice depending on the situation i.e. how long you've been their Agent & has your "track record" been more right than wrong.
I believe Blalock switched Agents just a couple of years ago so maybe he didn't feel confident that turning down $15 million for the chance at more money was such a good idea.
Good stategy on the part of the team. Put the Player in a position where he sees the carrot on the end of the stick clearly & subtly plant the thought that he's one blown ligament/bad season away from ever seeing that many zeros on a check again. The StRangers probably saved themselves enough money to pay Chan Hopeless for a week or 2over the 5 years the signed Blalock for.
I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal.
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
Hard to give you a number. Usually, Players will follow your advice depending on the situation i.e. how long you've been their Agent & has your "track record" been more right than wrong.
I believe Blalock switched Agents just a couple of years ago so maybe he didn't feel confident that turning down $15 million for the chance at more money was such a good idea.
Good stategy on the part of the team. Put the Player in a position where he sees the carrot on the end of the stick clearly & subtly plant the thought that he's one blown ligament/bad season away from ever seeing that many zeros on a check again. The StRangers probably saved themselves enough money to pay Chan Hopeless for a week or 2over the 5 years the signed Blalock for.
