And why?
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Generic answer to your question. The best agent is born from the advisor who takes his time to explain the process and listens and answers all of your questions. He educates you so that you could help your son to make a decision between pro ball and college. He gives you a copy of the player's union contract and goes over every section. He is there on the other end of the line whenever you call, not his secretary. He has never told you he is the best, but you know from his personal track record his clients like him as a person. He wins your trust and your confidence. He isn't a sleaze because he won't take any part of your son's bonus money, only the extra he negotiates after your son agrees to go pro. He is smart because he knows that being honest with you and your son will someday payoff when your son signs a contract worth more than $800 month. He also is smart not to get into public arguments that might make all other advisors/agents look bad.
IMHO that is who is the best agent.
IMHO that is who is the best agent.
Is this a trick question?
This term comes to mind:
ox·y·mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-môrn, -mr-)
n. pl. ox·y·mo·ra (-môr, -mr) or ox·y·mo·rons
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."...Joe Jackson
This term comes to mind:
ox·y·mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-môrn, -mr-)
n. pl. ox·y·mo·ra (-môr, -mr) or ox·y·mo·rons
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."...Joe Jackson
Jerry McGuire! Show me the money! 
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
I thought that most agents take about 4% of the signing bonus. Isn't that standard?
quote:
Originally posted by pops:
And why?
There is no one best Agent. Everyone has different needs so what works for one player may not work for another.
The best Agent will be the one who meets the criteria you & your family have decided are most important to them.
First, do your homework to determine what you want in terms of approach & aservices offered i.e. do you want someone real aggresive who will push for the very last dime? Do you want a big firm with a "one stop shopping" type of service and all the plusses and minuses of being a "small fish in a big pond" or do you want a smaller firm where you can independently pick & choose what services you desire with the trade-offs that result.
Second, conduct interviews with prospective agents rather than have meetings where you listen to a sales "pitch". You need to control the agenda & seek information from credible, experienced sources based on what is right for you.
Finally, get references. Not just the superstar players an Agent represents. Get the phone numbers for some of his clients who are career Minor Leaguers & find out how they have been taken care of. Talk to people they've dealt with from MLB. Remember that if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
quote:
Originally posted by sorearm:
I thought that most agents take about 4% of the signing bonus. Isn't that standard?
There is no standard fee. Some people charge 5% some charge 2%. Rickie Weeks' agent charged him $500/hour.
IMHO hourly rates only give the Agent the incentive to bill for more hours. Also, the lower a commission rate, the more clients an Agent must have to make a living. An Agents' worth should be determined by what he brings to the table in terms of experience, ability & how much of his time you'll be getting.
Notice I said HIS TIME. Not his Secretary, or Assistant or Interns or Go-fers in his office, I mean the guy at the top of the chain of command.
quote:
Originally posted by Glove Man:
Is this a trick question?
This term comes to mind:
ox·y·mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-môrn, -mr-)
n. pl. ox·y·mo·ra (-môr, -mr) or ox·y·mo·rons
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."...Joe Jackson
If Agents are such unnecessary, overpaid, evil people then why do 99% of players have one?
naw just each agent they all will tell you how great they are, none are lacking in the ego department
quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile:quote:
Originally posted by sorearm:
I thought that most agents take about 4% of the signing bonus. Isn't that standard?
There is no standard fee. Some people charge 5% some charge 2%. Rickie Weeks' agent charged him $500/hour.
IMHO hourly rates only give the Agent the incentive to bill for more hours. Also, the lower a commission rate, the more clients an Agent must have to make a living. An Agents' worth should be determined by what he brings to the table in terms of experience, ability & how much of his time you'll be getting.
Notice I said HIS TIME. Not his Secretary, or Assistant or Interns or Go-fers in his office, I mean the guy at the top of the chain of command.
How about 4% of everything over the first offer for a drafted player?
Does M16 bear a resemblance to anyone you know???
TRhit
TRhit
How about 4% of everything over the first offer for a drafted player?[/QUOTE]
How about whatever the Player & Agent agree is a reasonable fee? If the Player thinks it's fair, why do you have a problem with it? The Player gets a better contract at a rate he AGREED was fair as well as a tax deduction in the amount of the commission. The Agent is paid at a rate he AGREED was fair for his services & he gets a happy client around which to build his practice.
Why do you have such a problem with how much Agents are paid? Do you begrudge your doctor or lawyer what you pay them & try to chisel them down to a lower fee?
What do you do for a living? Is there a message board where I can go complain about how much you make?
How about whatever the Player & Agent agree is a reasonable fee? If the Player thinks it's fair, why do you have a problem with it? The Player gets a better contract at a rate he AGREED was fair as well as a tax deduction in the amount of the commission. The Agent is paid at a rate he AGREED was fair for his services & he gets a happy client around which to build his practice.
Why do you have such a problem with how much Agents are paid? Do you begrudge your doctor or lawyer what you pay them & try to chisel them down to a lower fee?
What do you do for a living? Is there a message board where I can go complain about how much you make?
quote:
Originally posted by M I 6:
naw just each agent they all will tell you how great they are, none are lacking in the ego department
Can't disagree with you on that one. However, just as it takes a big ego to think you can step on the mound & throw a fastball by Barry Bonds, it takes a big ego to think you can hold your own against Brian Sabean(GM of the Giants) or go into the living room of the Giants #1 pick & explain why you are the best choice to represent him.
BTW, I spent more time in school preparing to do my job than most Players spent in the minors learning how to do theirs. I also have been "in the Majors" longer than they have. To quote "Dandy" Don Meredith "If you can do it, it ain't bragging ".
"Cause I'm a VooDoo Chile, Lord knows I'm a VooDoo Chile"
Tom,
Figured that one out days ago.
He is just jealous of the agents! A true wannabe. lol
"I love the HSBBW"
Figured that one out days ago.
He is just jealous of the agents! A true wannabe. lol
"I love the HSBBW"
VDC...and was "Dandy" quotng Dizzy Dean when he said that? 
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
at the risk of setting off another round of reply's munseysports seems to do a nice job for the kid's. i know him to be a really good person, allways looking out for the kids best interest(ASTHEY ALL SHOULD),he had saltamacia in the sup. first round and some others over te years ,but a really good person first and formost .just one mans opinion
The best agent is the one that works for you and you are satisfied with the results
TRhit
TRhit
My opinion is that the best agent depends on what stage a player is in. Obviously, the best agent for a player just coming in to the pros won't necessarily be the one with the highest profile client list. In fact, my experience is quite the contrary.
My advice would be to listen to ALL proposals with an open mind. However, if we're dealing with a player about to be drafted/signed into the professional ranks, the "best agent" is the one who has a plan which seeks to DEVELOPE a player's potential.
What I mean by that is that an agent should do his most arduous work when a player is still developing. Training and media coverage should be paramount so as to get the most out of the athlete on the field, as well as managing his image from its infancy.
These services (trainer and media exposure), while seemingly basic and simple, are offered by relatively few agents.
Look for an agent who is looking at the big picture, and who understands his role, as the player's employee, in the athletes road to the Bigs.
FM
My advice would be to listen to ALL proposals with an open mind. However, if we're dealing with a player about to be drafted/signed into the professional ranks, the "best agent" is the one who has a plan which seeks to DEVELOPE a player's potential.
What I mean by that is that an agent should do his most arduous work when a player is still developing. Training and media coverage should be paramount so as to get the most out of the athlete on the field, as well as managing his image from its infancy.
These services (trainer and media exposure), while seemingly basic and simple, are offered by relatively few agents.
Look for an agent who is looking at the big picture, and who understands his role, as the player's employee, in the athletes road to the Bigs.
FM
crunching numbers - "smart" seems around 20% of the diff over the 1rst offer (or slot) & sounds fair to me -
I mean, a player doesn't need any help at all fielding that first offer - right??? and to negotiate a 4% deal of the "diff over" sounds like a low-ball for someone you want working his butt off for ya in the future
and how many minor leaguers giving up a %%% actualy ever get to the show where it would pay off for the agent???
ps- I am not an agent, nor do I wish to become one
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
I mean, a player doesn't need any help at all fielding that first offer - right??? and to negotiate a 4% deal of the "diff over" sounds like a low-ball for someone you want working his butt off for ya in the future
and how many minor leaguers giving up a %%% actualy ever get to the show where it would pay off for the agent???
ps- I am not an agent, nor do I wish to become one
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
quote:
Originally posted by Bee:
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
Are you talking about who's the best Agent or how much to pay him? BTW can you include a formula to figure out what the hell you're talking about.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fmarq7901:
"My opinion is that the best agent depends on what stage a player is in."
Are you saying that Players need different Agents for different stages of their careers?
"Obviously, the best agent for a player just coming in to the pros won't necessarily be the one with the highest profile client list."
Why? if you have a firm committment from an Agent with a "high profile client list" whoa has a track record of giving good service to ALL his clients, why not go with a "high profile client list" type of Agent? Isn't he more likely to have the experience necessary to do a good job?
"Training and media coverage should be paramount so as to get the most out of the athlete on the field, as well as managing his image from its infancy."
Training? You're going to train Players? So you know more than MLB teams?
Media coverage? For a (hypothetical) 3rd round draft choice? Are you nuts? Once a kid signs the less scrutiny he's working under, the better. the last thing the average 18-21 Y.O. Player needs is even bigger expectations because you have "managed" his image.
"These services (trainer and media exposure), while seemingly basic and simple, are offered by relatively few agents."
Yeah & there's good reasons most Agents don't do it. There are people who have degrees in training let them coordinate a program with the Players' team trainer to get him at his peak & media exposure will come when a Player accomplishes something to justify it.
"My opinion is that the best agent depends on what stage a player is in."
Are you saying that Players need different Agents for different stages of their careers?
"Obviously, the best agent for a player just coming in to the pros won't necessarily be the one with the highest profile client list."
Why? if you have a firm committment from an Agent with a "high profile client list" whoa has a track record of giving good service to ALL his clients, why not go with a "high profile client list" type of Agent? Isn't he more likely to have the experience necessary to do a good job?
"Training and media coverage should be paramount so as to get the most out of the athlete on the field, as well as managing his image from its infancy."
Training? You're going to train Players? So you know more than MLB teams?
Media coverage? For a (hypothetical) 3rd round draft choice? Are you nuts? Once a kid signs the less scrutiny he's working under, the better. the last thing the average 18-21 Y.O. Player needs is even bigger expectations because you have "managed" his image.
"These services (trainer and media exposure), while seemingly basic and simple, are offered by relatively few agents."
Yeah & there's good reasons most Agents don't do it. There are people who have degrees in training let them coordinate a program with the Players' team trainer to get him at his peak & media exposure will come when a Player accomplishes something to justify it.
no thank you - no need to sweet talk me
most agents? - - - they just aint right!
lefty agents - - - they're just all wrong?
most agents? - - - they just aint right!
lefty agents - - - they're just all wrong?
voodoo, you really need some love in your life. Really, calm down.
Ok, since you jump to conclusions and start putting words in my mouth, I'll explain what I meant...and this is the last reply I post for any of your comments.
1.) Some agents are much better developing a young player than others. Agree? Hence, I would recommend this type of agent to a kid just signing. Ideally, the athlete would stick with him, given that the agent's services progress along with the Kid's career.
2.) In my opinion, a kid needs an agent who will give him as much personal attention as possible. He needs to have an agent who is willing to assure a smooth transition from high/school/college to the pros, and who will watch out for his development in the early stages of their career. In addition, I think personal contact from between the agent and the kid's family should be paramount.
We have to remember that an 18 year old kid is just that, a kid. He'll be leaving home for the first time, leaving his family behind. They will be emotionally affected (generally) as much as the ballplayer. I personally believe the agent should stay in touch, personally not through a representative, with the family in order to make sure their transition also goes as smooth as possible.
While some big name agents may do so, others will not. Consequently, the "best agent" is not necessarily the one with the most recognizable name, or with the most experience. Other factors must come into play. Wouldn't you agree?
3.) I disagree with you on the training. In today's ballgame, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a ballplayer, at any level, who doesn't try and work his but off during the offseason. I have all my players under the supervision of a duly certified/lescensed strength and conditioning coach.
In my view, it is much safer and more efficient than leaving the kid to train on his own. It also allows them to arrive at spring training in optimal shape. By the way, ask any Major League GM, and they'll agree that they appreciate a kid who puts forth the extra effort in the offseason.
4.) As far as media coverage, I disagree with you again. Don't get me wrong, I understand your worry. I definetly do not want to swarm any kid with reporters. However, I devise a marketing strategy for all my players that includes their initial foray in the local newspapers. Initially it is mostly small briefs and notes in the local paper; eventually graduating, in a couple of years, to television and nationwide outlets.
I do, however, talk to all my kids before-hand to gauge their view of the press. It is always their choice. If they wan't no media coverage whatsoever, then "their wish is my command."
Generally, though, I find that the coverage motivates them to work harder at their goals. Just my experience.
The media exposure can be helpful as well. For instance, one of my players was just named the Rookie of the Year of one of the big Winter Leagues. Two-Three weeks prior to teh voting, I set up a couple of interviews to promote his candidacy because it was a tight race. I have no doubt that said pieces directly impacted the voters by letting them know who he was and what he had done.
5.) Lastly, I think you mistakenly though I would be doing the personal training. As I said, I hire a duly certified/liscensed strength and conditioning coach to work with the kids' need, which I derive from communicating with the different organizations' Player Development Depts.
By the way, I am a certified strength and conditioning coach, as well as having been a U.S.A. Boxing certified trainer for six years (I've been a boxer for the past ten years), having led some of my fighters to a berth on Team USA. If it was me, which it is not, I think they'd be in good hands.
FM
Ok, since you jump to conclusions and start putting words in my mouth, I'll explain what I meant...and this is the last reply I post for any of your comments.
1.) Some agents are much better developing a young player than others. Agree? Hence, I would recommend this type of agent to a kid just signing. Ideally, the athlete would stick with him, given that the agent's services progress along with the Kid's career.
2.) In my opinion, a kid needs an agent who will give him as much personal attention as possible. He needs to have an agent who is willing to assure a smooth transition from high/school/college to the pros, and who will watch out for his development in the early stages of their career. In addition, I think personal contact from between the agent and the kid's family should be paramount.
We have to remember that an 18 year old kid is just that, a kid. He'll be leaving home for the first time, leaving his family behind. They will be emotionally affected (generally) as much as the ballplayer. I personally believe the agent should stay in touch, personally not through a representative, with the family in order to make sure their transition also goes as smooth as possible.
While some big name agents may do so, others will not. Consequently, the "best agent" is not necessarily the one with the most recognizable name, or with the most experience. Other factors must come into play. Wouldn't you agree?
3.) I disagree with you on the training. In today's ballgame, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a ballplayer, at any level, who doesn't try and work his but off during the offseason. I have all my players under the supervision of a duly certified/lescensed strength and conditioning coach.
In my view, it is much safer and more efficient than leaving the kid to train on his own. It also allows them to arrive at spring training in optimal shape. By the way, ask any Major League GM, and they'll agree that they appreciate a kid who puts forth the extra effort in the offseason.
4.) As far as media coverage, I disagree with you again. Don't get me wrong, I understand your worry. I definetly do not want to swarm any kid with reporters. However, I devise a marketing strategy for all my players that includes their initial foray in the local newspapers. Initially it is mostly small briefs and notes in the local paper; eventually graduating, in a couple of years, to television and nationwide outlets.
I do, however, talk to all my kids before-hand to gauge their view of the press. It is always their choice. If they wan't no media coverage whatsoever, then "their wish is my command."
Generally, though, I find that the coverage motivates them to work harder at their goals. Just my experience.
The media exposure can be helpful as well. For instance, one of my players was just named the Rookie of the Year of one of the big Winter Leagues. Two-Three weeks prior to teh voting, I set up a couple of interviews to promote his candidacy because it was a tight race. I have no doubt that said pieces directly impacted the voters by letting them know who he was and what he had done.
5.) Lastly, I think you mistakenly though I would be doing the personal training. As I said, I hire a duly certified/liscensed strength and conditioning coach to work with the kids' need, which I derive from communicating with the different organizations' Player Development Depts.
By the way, I am a certified strength and conditioning coach, as well as having been a U.S.A. Boxing certified trainer for six years (I've been a boxer for the past ten years), having led some of my fighters to a berth on Team USA. If it was me, which it is not, I think they'd be in good hands.
FM
Fmarq,
Though Voodoo Chile is argumentative, (everyone knows that I am not) I will say that he makes good points.
Leading off with those kind of persoanl remarks do not make you look great either.
I rather appreicate the debate. It would be great if we could keep it off of the persoanl side.
I want a smart, experienced mercenary representing me. I am not looking for a nice guy or a trainer.
"I love the HSBBW"
quote:
voodoo, you really need some love in your life. Really, calm down.
Though Voodoo Chile is argumentative, (everyone knows that I am not) I will say that he makes good points.
Leading off with those kind of persoanl remarks do not make you look great either.
I rather appreicate the debate. It would be great if we could keep it off of the persoanl side.
I want a smart, experienced mercenary representing me. I am not looking for a nice guy or a trainer.
"I love the HSBBW"
Fmarq
Glad to hear that "this is the last reply I post for any of your comments." Best thing I've seen you say yet.
Glad to hear that "this is the last reply I post for any of your comments." Best thing I've seen you say yet.
As the wordl turns on the HSBBW!!!!
You gotta love it!!!!
TRhit
You gotta love it!!!!
TRhit
We went throgh this last year. There are many factors that should be in your decision. Also the question as to when to agree with one.Some are intrested in only taking the 4 % and give you not much in return and others will hold your hand to the show.
For us we talked with several , 1) you and more importantly the player has to be comfortable with that person.
2) Again this was for us your reasons may be different : Does the agent provide local off season training both weight and throwing/hitting. 3) Does the agent provide financial help with taxes ,investing etc. 4) Do the agent provide you with gear such as shoes ,spikes,gloves,under armor etc.
And most important dont take his word get phone numbers from other clients and call them I know I wont mind a call to tell you if they are good or not.
Remember getting a bonus is just the start!!!
mike
For us we talked with several , 1) you and more importantly the player has to be comfortable with that person.
2) Again this was for us your reasons may be different : Does the agent provide local off season training both weight and throwing/hitting. 3) Does the agent provide financial help with taxes ,investing etc. 4) Do the agent provide you with gear such as shoes ,spikes,gloves,under armor etc.
And most important dont take his word get phone numbers from other clients and call them I know I wont mind a call to tell you if they are good or not.
Remember getting a bonus is just the start!!!
mike
"3) Does the agent provide financial help with taxes ,investing etc."
Harmon Killebrew, Rick Wise, Alan Bannister, Bill Madlock, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jerry Rice, Tony Dorsett. What does this list of great athletes have in common? They all lost a fortune because the Agent who represented them also handled their investing, taxes etc.
If nobody on this site believes a single word I ever say believe this: THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE IS TO PUT TOO MUCH POWER IN ONE SET OF HANDS!!!! Do not go with an Agent who also does your investing and/or taxes. These are highly specialized areas of expertise & you need objective, independent input as to how to best handle these aspects of your career.
Virtually EVERY horror story you have heard about a Player getting ripped off was because they put too much power in one set of hands. SEPARATION OF POWERS best if you want to keep your money. Michael Jordan, a fairly decent Player in his day said "No one will ever take as good a care of your money as you will"
Harmon Killebrew, Rick Wise, Alan Bannister, Bill Madlock, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jerry Rice, Tony Dorsett. What does this list of great athletes have in common? They all lost a fortune because the Agent who represented them also handled their investing, taxes etc.
If nobody on this site believes a single word I ever say believe this: THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE IS TO PUT TOO MUCH POWER IN ONE SET OF HANDS!!!! Do not go with an Agent who also does your investing and/or taxes. These are highly specialized areas of expertise & you need objective, independent input as to how to best handle these aspects of your career.
Virtually EVERY horror story you have heard about a Player getting ripped off was because they put too much power in one set of hands. SEPARATION OF POWERS best if you want to keep your money. Michael Jordan, a fairly decent Player in his day said "No one will ever take as good a care of your money as you will"
While me and voodoo do not agree on many things, here we have the same view. While many agents offer such a service, I would advice that you seek tax help with a third party who is detached from the agent/client relationship.
Too many things can go wrong to entrust ALL your life, both on and off the field, to one person. Let the agent handle all professional matters, which is what he knows best.
FM
Too many things can go wrong to entrust ALL your life, both on and off the field, to one person. Let the agent handle all professional matters, which is what he knows best.
FM
I also agree with you on that point to a degree. Just for the record our sons agent does not do the taxes, they have a CPA on staff who handles athletes so he is familer with them and all there write offs. I will say that you should always know what is going on with YOUR money and if you are not it may dissaper.Also never give any agent, CPA , or anyone the power of attorney to handle your money. For a lot of draft picks these is the only real money they may ever see and you need to make it last.
Another point is I feel very strongly that the parents should take a active role in the draft process with out getting in the way.The thing to remember is you have a ADVISOR before the draft not a agent. We have a friend who lost millions due to having to much trust in a advisor, I feel it is your /sons life and you need to be involved and when something does not seem right speak up. Good luck to all and enjoy the ride as it is never as much fun as it should be.
Mike
Another point is I feel very strongly that the parents should take a active role in the draft process with out getting in the way.The thing to remember is you have a ADVISOR before the draft not a agent. We have a friend who lost millions due to having to much trust in a advisor, I feel it is your /sons life and you need to be involved and when something does not seem right speak up. Good luck to all and enjoy the ride as it is never as much fun as it should be.
Mike
quote:
Originally posted by 20dad:
at the risk of setting off another round of reply's munseysports seems to do a nice job for the kid's. i know him to be a really good person, allways looking out for the kids best interest(ASTHEY ALL SHOULD),he had saltamacia in the sup. first round and some others over te years ,but a really good person first and formost .just one mans opinion
With all the negative replies on Agent/Advisors its nice to hear some positives. Munsey Sports Management does an excellent job with his clients. He does represent Saltalamacchia as well as Mike Mordecai, Doug Jennings, Enrique Cruz, Sean Burnett, Matt Whitney, Justin Pope, and Eric Duncan to name a few. The fact that speaks volumes is that he still represents ALL his original clients. That should tell you that they ALL must be very satisfied with the work he is doing for them. When you call Munsey Sports Management for assistance, information or simply to talk, its Munsey whom you will speak to directly, not an assistant, secretary or "go-fer". I can personally attest to his hard work, integrity and loyalty to his clients as well as his being a good person first and formost. He also has a good working relationship with Financial Advisors and CPA's who are specialists in there fields and handle all his clients. (VERY IMPORTANT)Munsey Sports has a significant client list but has vowed NEVER to reach the point where its size compromises his services.
Bottom line for anyone in need of an Advisor/Agent I cannot emphasize enough, to interview as many as you can (with your son) and ask to check with present clients for their opinions. In the end you will get a good feeling on who your son is comfortable with to handle his future.
Feel free to e-mail me with any questions you have that I may be able to help you with.
03DAD
In 1962 I was named "Minor League" Player of the Year. It was my second season in the "Bigs". - Bob Ueker
03DAD
You have an E-mail
"Peace is, the respect for the other people's rights".
Benito Juarez
You have an E-mail
"Peace is, the respect for the other people's rights".
Benito Juarez
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 03DAD:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 20dad:
at the risk of setting off another round of reply's munseysports seems to do a nice job for the kid's.
Couple of comments:
1) I was told Bobby Bradley had left or was leaving Munsey. Could be wrong but that's what I had heard.
2) Munsey has never handled either an arbitration case or negotiated any significant multi-year deals. When an Agent is learning on his time, that lesson can be VERY expensive for a player. Just ask AJ Burnett. His agent messed up his negotiations with the Marlins last year because of his lack of experience & now it's Burnett who has paid the price of losing twice... once in arbitration & again this year because after being injured last year, his salary for '04 was based on his salary for '03.
Other than those two items, what I've heard about Munsey has been ok.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 20dad:
at the risk of setting off another round of reply's munseysports seems to do a nice job for the kid's.
Couple of comments:
1) I was told Bobby Bradley had left or was leaving Munsey. Could be wrong but that's what I had heard.
2) Munsey has never handled either an arbitration case or negotiated any significant multi-year deals. When an Agent is learning on his time, that lesson can be VERY expensive for a player. Just ask AJ Burnett. His agent messed up his negotiations with the Marlins last year because of his lack of experience & now it's Burnett who has paid the price of losing twice... once in arbitration & again this year because after being injured last year, his salary for '04 was based on his salary for '03.
Other than those two items, what I've heard about Munsey has been ok.
I agree with your last comment, however, what you heard on items #1 and #2 are incorrect. Munsey never had Bradley for a client and since I don't know the FACTS obout the A.J.Burnett comment, I will humbly remain opinionless.
Facts are facts and rumors are... just that!
You seem to put a lot of emphesis on arbitrations and multi-year deals or rather a persons "lack of". Impressive lawyer talk but I think a young potential draftee and his parents would much rather trust their sons future with a competent, loyal, hard working person with integrity beyond reproach that they feel comfortable with and especially one that has the respect of EVERY MLB organization and every player that he ever represented.
Remember, everybody's your friend when things are going great, but will they be there for your son when he hits bumps in the road (and he will)?
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
Take care.
In 1962 I was named "Minor League" Player of the Year. It was my second season in the "Bigs". - Bob Ueker
Facts are facts and rumors are... just that!
You seem to put a lot of emphesis on arbitrations and multi-year deals or rather a persons "lack of". Impressive lawyer talk but I think a young potential draftee and his parents would much rather trust their sons future with a competent, loyal, hard working person with integrity beyond reproach that they feel comfortable with and especially one that has the respect of EVERY MLB organization and every player that he ever represented.
Remember, everybody's your friend when things are going great, but will they be there for your son when he hits bumps in the road (and he will)?
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
Take care.
In 1962 I was named "Minor League" Player of the Year. It was my second season in the "Bigs". - Bob Ueker
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 03DAD:
I agree with your last comment, however, what you heard on items #1 and #2 are incorrect.
RE #1 I said in my post "Could be wrong but that's what I had heard.". Could have sworn I read it in the Palm Beach paper @ some point that Burnett & Bradley pitched for same HS & had same Agent.
RE #2 If Munsey's handled arbitration/big $$ multi year deals who were they for? The answer is he hasn't. Not a knock, just a fact.
"I don't know the FACTS obout the A.J.Burnett comment"
I do & what I said was 100% correct.
"You seem to put a lot of emphesis on arbitrations and multi-year deals or rather a persons "lack of".
I put a lot of emphasis on them because they're "life *& death" important. Mistakes in either area can cost a player millions of dollars &/or his relationship with his team.
"Impressive lawyer talk but I think a young potential draftee and his parents would much rather trust their sons future with a competent, loyal, hard working person with integrity beyond reproach that they feel comfortable with and especially one that has the respect of EVERY MLB organization and every player that he ever represented."
Why isn't it possible to find these qualities in an Agent who ALSO has experience in the important areas I mention above? It is possible because that's exactly what I give my clients & I know I'm not the only one in the biz who can say that.
"Remember, everybody's your friend when things are going great, but will they be there for your son when he hits bumps in the road (and he will)?
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
I agree with on that 100%.
I agree with your last comment, however, what you heard on items #1 and #2 are incorrect.
RE #1 I said in my post "Could be wrong but that's what I had heard.". Could have sworn I read it in the Palm Beach paper @ some point that Burnett & Bradley pitched for same HS & had same Agent.
RE #2 If Munsey's handled arbitration/big $$ multi year deals who were they for? The answer is he hasn't. Not a knock, just a fact.
"I don't know the FACTS obout the A.J.Burnett comment"
I do & what I said was 100% correct.
"You seem to put a lot of emphesis on arbitrations and multi-year deals or rather a persons "lack of".
I put a lot of emphasis on them because they're "life *& death" important. Mistakes in either area can cost a player millions of dollars &/or his relationship with his team.
"Impressive lawyer talk but I think a young potential draftee and his parents would much rather trust their sons future with a competent, loyal, hard working person with integrity beyond reproach that they feel comfortable with and especially one that has the respect of EVERY MLB organization and every player that he ever represented."
Why isn't it possible to find these qualities in an Agent who ALSO has experience in the important areas I mention above? It is possible because that's exactly what I give my clients & I know I'm not the only one in the biz who can say that.
"Remember, everybody's your friend when things are going great, but will they be there for your son when he hits bumps in the road (and he will)?
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
I agree with on that 100%.
Boras is the best agent.
Why? Because he has clients like J.D. Drew not play until he can wring enough $ out of somebody? There is different criteria for every player. If all you are interested in is $, then Boras MAY be the best. All I know is I wouldn't have wanted Tank Black.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile:quote:
Originally posted by pops:
And why?
There is no one best Agent. Everyone has different needs so what works for one player may not work for another.
The best Agent will be the one who meets the criteria you & your family have decided are most important to them.
First, do your homework to determine what you want in terms of approach & aservices offered i.e. do you want someone real aggresive who will push for the very last dime? Do you want a big firm with a "one stop shopping" type of service and all the plusses and minuses of being a "small fish in a big pond" or do you want a smaller firm where you can independently pick & choose what services you desire with the trade-offs that result.
Second, conduct interviews with prospective agents rather than have meetings where you listen to a sales "pitch". You need to control the agenda & seek information from credible, experienced sources based on what is right for you.
Finally, get references. Not just the superstar players an Agent represents. Get the phone numbers for some of his clients who are career Minor Leaguers & find out how they have been taken care of. Talk to people they've dealt with from MLB. Remember that if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
I'm sure this is a first, but I agree 100%! Best advice you could get.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
He has clients like Maddux, Kevin Brown, Ivan Rodriguez, Alex Rodriguez and many others like Drew who get top dollar. He also gets top dollar for the drafted players unlike many others who just get slot money and collect their 5 percent.
quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 03DAD:
"You seem to put a lot of emphesis on arbitrations and multi-year deals or rather a persons "lack of".
I put a lot of emphasis on them because they're "life *& death" important. Mistakes in either area can cost a player millions of dollars &/or his relationship with his team.
"Impressive lawyer talk but I think a young potential draftee and his parents would much rather trust their sons future with a competent, loyal, hard working person with integrity beyond reproach that they feel comfortable with and especially one that has the respect of EVERY MLB organization and every player that he ever represented."
Why isn't it possible to find these qualities in an Agent who ALSO has experience in the important areas I mention above? It is possible because that's exactly what I give my clients & I know I'm not the only one in the biz who can say that.
.
ok - twice in one thread. Voodoo is absolutely bang-on here. Arbitration and multi-year deals are absolutely the most important negotiations of a players career. And, if you didn't trust your son's future with an agent, obiously you wouldn't sign with him. Trusting his future also means that he knows what he is doing in these critical areas - as Voodoo says, players can easily lose millions if these aren't negotiated well.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Multi-year deals and arbitration cases are most important. Agreed, If you happen to be a highest level major league player. Those who are looking for advice on this site do not require arbitration. They need help starting their career and signing the best possible contract. First things first, get the career started. The best thing an advisor can do is get teams to know as much good as possible about his player and create as much interest as possible before the draft. Talk to the clubs abd promote the player as much as possible. Often the negotiations take place before the draft is even held. Most never go through arbitration so high school or college players getting an agent because of that is meaningless. Do step one first. Then many years down the road you will know if you have the right guy for an arbitration case. Because arbitration won't happen for many years. Most agents don't have a lot of experience in arbitration. The easiest thing in the world is to get rid of or change agents if you need to. I don't understand all this talk about ARod, Schilling, and the others. At this point what do they have in common with your sons situation? One question I would ask is who do you represent. Unless your with a giant firm, how much time and interest will you have for my son if you are involved with lots of long term contract negotiations and arbitration cases. Will you give my son as much time as you give your client whose making you millions of dollars? If the answer is no, you are an honest man. If the answer is yes everyone is treated equally, beware.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
"Multi-year deals and arbitration cases are most important. Agreed, If you happen to be a highest level major league player.Those who are looking for advice on this site do not require arbitration. They need help starting their career and signing the best possible contract. First things first, get the career started."
Isn't that what a draft prospect player aspires to be "a highest level major league player"? If not, why bother? If so, isn't it better to find an Agent who can help you with your entire career?
Also, chances are that if an Agent has experience in Arbitration & multi-year deals he also has the experience & contacts necessary to help a draft prospect get his career started. In my opinion, that's a much better choice than going with someone & hoping that when/if you make it he will have gained the necessary experience to help you. Otherwise you will be jumping from Agent to Agent to find someone who can.
"The best thing an advisor can do is get teams to know as much good as possible about his player and create as much interest as possible before the draft. Talk to the clubs abd promote the player as much as possible. Often the negotiations take place before the draft is even held."
Thanks for the advice Einstein. I never would have thought of that.
"Most never go through arbitration so high school or college players getting an agent because of that is meaningless. Do step one first. Then many years down the road you will know if you have the right guy for an arbitration case."
Wrong. See above comments.
"Most agents don't have a lot of experience in arbitration.The easiest thing in the world is to get rid of or change agents if you need to."
That's why you pick one who does have experience, so you don't have to jump from Agent to Agent if you make the right choice.
"One question I would ask is who do you represent. Unless your with a giant firm, how much time and interest will you have for my son if you are involved with lots of long term contract negotiations and arbitration cases. Will you give my son as much time as you give your client whose making you millions of dollars?"
Great question to ask. However, I disagree with your statement "If the answer is no, you are an honest man. If the answer is yes everyone is treated equally, beware." If an Agent won't take care of all his clients equally, I wouldn't touch him with a 20 foot pole.
"Multi-year deals and arbitration cases are most important. Agreed, If you happen to be a highest level major league player.Those who are looking for advice on this site do not require arbitration. They need help starting their career and signing the best possible contract. First things first, get the career started."
Isn't that what a draft prospect player aspires to be "a highest level major league player"? If not, why bother? If so, isn't it better to find an Agent who can help you with your entire career?
Also, chances are that if an Agent has experience in Arbitration & multi-year deals he also has the experience & contacts necessary to help a draft prospect get his career started. In my opinion, that's a much better choice than going with someone & hoping that when/if you make it he will have gained the necessary experience to help you. Otherwise you will be jumping from Agent to Agent to find someone who can.
"The best thing an advisor can do is get teams to know as much good as possible about his player and create as much interest as possible before the draft. Talk to the clubs abd promote the player as much as possible. Often the negotiations take place before the draft is even held."
Thanks for the advice Einstein. I never would have thought of that.
"Most never go through arbitration so high school or college players getting an agent because of that is meaningless. Do step one first. Then many years down the road you will know if you have the right guy for an arbitration case."
Wrong. See above comments.
"Most agents don't have a lot of experience in arbitration.The easiest thing in the world is to get rid of or change agents if you need to."
That's why you pick one who does have experience, so you don't have to jump from Agent to Agent if you make the right choice.
"One question I would ask is who do you represent. Unless your with a giant firm, how much time and interest will you have for my son if you are involved with lots of long term contract negotiations and arbitration cases. Will you give my son as much time as you give your client whose making you millions of dollars?"
Great question to ask. However, I disagree with your statement "If the answer is no, you are an honest man. If the answer is yes everyone is treated equally, beware." If an Agent won't take care of all his clients equally, I wouldn't touch him with a 20 foot pole.
quote:
Originally posted by pops:
Boras is the best agent.
WHY? Is it:
Because he's lost 9 of his last 10 arbitration cases?
Because he advised Kevin Millwood to turn down a 5 year $75 million contract & now the best Millwood can do is to accept arbitration from the Phillies?
Because he told Pudge Rodriguez he'll get him a 4 year $40 million contract & won't even sniff half of that?
Because he alienates EVERY team he negotiates with & reporter he talks to with his arrogant personality & blackmailing tactics?
Because he consistently uses his clients to grandstand & seek publicity for the greater good of himself?
Boras has been a GREAT recruiter. To call him a great Agent is an entirely different matter. If it were my kid, I wouldn't let Boras represent him if Scott paid him instead of him paying Scott.
today's Detroit Free Press -
"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."
"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."
"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."
lefties? - - - they just aint right!
..well at least he reads the paper.
Pudge went from the Rangers to the Marlins, got his ring, and now is only interested in money and not winning. I would not want him. Detroit will not get better by paying an aging catcher a huge amount of money to turn around a 119 loss team. It is another example of why Detroit is an awful franchise. I would hope my agent would advise to go to juco rather than sign with them.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bee:
today's Detroit Free Press -
"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."
"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."
"It ain't over till it's over."
Let's wait & see if #1 the deal gets done & #2 what the real numbers are. If this turns out to be true, I'll be the first to tip my cap to the man.
today's Detroit Free Press -
"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."
"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."
"It ain't over till it's over."
Let's wait & see if #1 the deal gets done & #2 what the real numbers are. If this turns out to be true, I'll be the first to tip my cap to the man.
quote:
Originally posted by Headfirst:
Pudge went from the Rangers to the Marlins, got his ring, and now is only interested in money and not winning. I would not want him. Detroit will not get better by paying an aging catcher a huge amount of money to turn around a 119 loss team. It is another example of why Detroit is an awful franchise. I would hope my agent would advise to go to juco rather than sign with them.
You left out a part. He is an "aging catcher" with a bad back & a million miles on his odometer. You are 1000% right about the Tigers being a three ring circus. Kind of tarnishes Dombrowski's previous image doesn't it. His talent was always in hiring good scouts & then taking credit for their work. Seems it isn't just some players that get fat & lazy with multi-year deals.
Since most people on this site have children in college or high school, I think that having a good agent when you are drafted is important. Baseball America lists the players who have signed and who their agent is, and how much the player received.
Scott Boras clients:
2000: Jason Young 2nd round--$2.750 million
Xavier Nady 2nd round--$1.1 +
major league contract.
Bobby Hill 2nd round--$1.3 million
2001: Tag Bozied--Senior drafted in 3rd round
$700 thousand
Mike Gosling--2nd round $2 million
Mark Teixeira--1st round $4.50 million
bonus with a ML contract that doubles it
2002: Jeremy Guthrie 1st round #22 $3 million
Vince Sinisi 2nd round $2.070 million
All the players above far exceeded the bonus amounts of the players taken around them in the draft, in some cases more than doubling the bonus amounts of the other players. He has his own staff of scouts and also sees the players himself. Being a good judge of talent and understanding a players real value is a talent that he has.
Scott Boras clients:
2000: Jason Young 2nd round--$2.750 million
Xavier Nady 2nd round--$1.1 +
major league contract.
Bobby Hill 2nd round--$1.3 million
2001: Tag Bozied--Senior drafted in 3rd round
$700 thousand
Mike Gosling--2nd round $2 million
Mark Teixeira--1st round $4.50 million
bonus with a ML contract that doubles it
2002: Jeremy Guthrie 1st round #22 $3 million
Vince Sinisi 2nd round $2.070 million
All the players above far exceeded the bonus amounts of the players taken around them in the draft, in some cases more than doubling the bonus amounts of the other players. He has his own staff of scouts and also sees the players himself. Being a good judge of talent and understanding a players real value is a talent that he has.
Voodoo, I wasn't even talking to you at all. Einstien I am not, but I'm smart enough to pick up on paranoia and insecurity in a persons character. Why do you think everyone is talking directly to you? I don't even know who you are and could care less. Did you say or not that he would not get half of that 40,000,000 four year deal. Seeing that you are an agent that acts like he knows so much about arbitration. What are the 5 major issues in every arbitration case? Also it is the Players Union and the owners that has been the most responsible for the salary structure in baseball not some players agent. For the draft Boras may or not be the best, for a major league player he for sure is one of the best. Unless making the major league teams paying the player more than his real value is bad for the player. JD Drew, ARod, etc. I thought that was the agents job. How can you be snake enough to tip your cap to someone you have cut to ribbons on an open forum. To do it as an unknown is even lower.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
"Did you say or not that he would not get half of that 40,000,000 four year deal."
I did say it & until I see the deal is done & done at those numbers I'm not wrong. the $10 million/year isn't the part I really doubt, it's the 4 year guarantee for a guy WAY past the prime of his career.
"Seeing that you are an agent that acts like he knows so much about arbitration. What are the 5 major issues in every arbitration case?"
I don't just "act" like I know. Actually, there are 6 criteria used in a salary arbitration hearing:
1) Quality of the Player's contribution to his club the previous season.
2)Length & consistency of his career contributions
3)Past compensation of the Player.
4)Comparative salaries
5)Existence of any physaical or mental defects on the part of the Player
6)Recent performance record of the team he plays for.
"Einstien I am not"
Well, at least you're right about something.
"Also it is the Players Union and the owners that has been the most responsible for the salary structure in baseball not some players agent."
Not to take anything away from the MLBPA but they couldn't have accomplished the enormous escalation in Player salaries without the hard work of the Agents who have pushed the bar higher depsite the best efforts of the owners to roll salaries back.
"For the draft Boras may or not be the best, for a major league player he for sure is one of the best."
Depending on how you determine "the best", I would agree that Scott is one of us. If you leave out the whole idea of how much vs. how you get it.
"How can you be snake enough to tip your cap to someone you have cut to ribbons on an open forum."
SNAKE? It takes a man to admit when he's wrong & if Pudge gets a 4 year guaranteed deal for a present value of $40 million, I'll be man enough to admit I was wrong & tip my cap to him. Just like when I played I tipped my cap to a pitcher when he got me in a tight situation. It's called being a good sport. Einstein you are not.
"To do it as an unknown is even lower."
OK I'm tired of everyone calling for me to identify myself. I'm actually Michael Jackson.
"Did you say or not that he would not get half of that 40,000,000 four year deal."
I did say it & until I see the deal is done & done at those numbers I'm not wrong. the $10 million/year isn't the part I really doubt, it's the 4 year guarantee for a guy WAY past the prime of his career.
"Seeing that you are an agent that acts like he knows so much about arbitration. What are the 5 major issues in every arbitration case?"
I don't just "act" like I know. Actually, there are 6 criteria used in a salary arbitration hearing:
1) Quality of the Player's contribution to his club the previous season.
2)Length & consistency of his career contributions
3)Past compensation of the Player.
4)Comparative salaries
5)Existence of any physaical or mental defects on the part of the Player
6)Recent performance record of the team he plays for.
"Einstien I am not"
Well, at least you're right about something.
"Also it is the Players Union and the owners that has been the most responsible for the salary structure in baseball not some players agent."
Not to take anything away from the MLBPA but they couldn't have accomplished the enormous escalation in Player salaries without the hard work of the Agents who have pushed the bar higher depsite the best efforts of the owners to roll salaries back.
"For the draft Boras may or not be the best, for a major league player he for sure is one of the best."
Depending on how you determine "the best", I would agree that Scott is one of us. If you leave out the whole idea of how much vs. how you get it.
"How can you be snake enough to tip your cap to someone you have cut to ribbons on an open forum."
SNAKE? It takes a man to admit when he's wrong & if Pudge gets a 4 year guaranteed deal for a present value of $40 million, I'll be man enough to admit I was wrong & tip my cap to him. Just like when I played I tipped my cap to a pitcher when he got me in a tight situation. It's called being a good sport. Einstein you are not.
"To do it as an unknown is even lower."
OK I'm tired of everyone calling for me to identify myself. I'm actually Michael Jackson.
VC aka Michael Jackson
It matters not to me because I would certainly never send any of my players to you but VC you keep digging the hole deeper and deeper for yourself in terms of credibility-- you are beginning to make a total fool of yourself
TRhit
It matters not to me because I would certainly never send any of my players to you but VC you keep digging the hole deeper and deeper for yourself in terms of credibility-- you are beginning to make a total fool of yourself
TRhit
voodoo,
You sneaked the words "present value" in there and with the max payments of $10 mill per year, there is no way you can be wrong, because the PV of the 4 $10 million payments is already less than $40.
You may not be the only Einstein in the world............
You sneaked the words "present value" in there and with the max payments of $10 mill per year, there is no way you can be wrong, because the PV of the 4 $10 million payments is already less than $40.
You may not be the only Einstein in the world............
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
OK you TORCH me for my attitude on a message board where I'm anonymous & is seen by a small segment of the Baseball community:
pops
Member
voodoo, Your attitude is one of the reasons that agents get put down so much.
pops
Member
Voodoo, Sit back and put yourself in a parents position. Read the voodoo posts and then tell your wife that you would like to have this guy represent your son. You may end up paying the kids bonus money to a divorce lawyer."
And now you're a cheerleader for THE most universally despised Agent in the game who makes statements in the NATIONAL press & on NATIONAL T.V. & Radio that makes his clients look like greedy fools for being asssociated with him?
Everyone hates this guy. I'm not even sure his Mom likes him. Tommy Tanzer(no angel himself) had to be held back from trying to kick Boras' butt at an MLBPA Agents meetin in LA a few yaer ago. There are MANY teams that tell their scouts to cross a kid off their list if they even THINK he's working with Boras.
So if as you say "Since most people on this site have children in college or high school"
Don't you think that should be taken into consideration?
Furthermore you said:
"pops Member"
"The value of an agent starts when arbitration is approaching for the young major leaguer."
Arbitration is crucial for a young player & Boras has lost 9 of his last 10. Even more important is the art of making a deal without having to go to a hearing. More often than not, because of their loathing for the man & his poor record in recent cases, teams won't negotiate with Boras on his arbitration eligible cases once figures get exchanged.
"He has his own staff of scouts and also sees the players himself. Being a good judge of talent and understanding a players real value is a talent that he has."
Big deal. Do you seriously think that he has any better idea of a players worth than his team does? If that were true, why has he lost so many cases in arbitration? This is a selling point that is so bogus as to be beyond a fantasy. How about the 100 pages of BS he sent to teams about ARod that his "staff" compiled. That must've been what impressed Tom Hicks so much right?
OK you TORCH me for my attitude on a message board where I'm anonymous & is seen by a small segment of the Baseball community:
pops
Member
voodoo, Your attitude is one of the reasons that agents get put down so much.
pops
Member
Voodoo, Sit back and put yourself in a parents position. Read the voodoo posts and then tell your wife that you would like to have this guy represent your son. You may end up paying the kids bonus money to a divorce lawyer."
And now you're a cheerleader for THE most universally despised Agent in the game who makes statements in the NATIONAL press & on NATIONAL T.V. & Radio that makes his clients look like greedy fools for being asssociated with him?
Everyone hates this guy. I'm not even sure his Mom likes him. Tommy Tanzer(no angel himself) had to be held back from trying to kick Boras' butt at an MLBPA Agents meetin in LA a few yaer ago. There are MANY teams that tell their scouts to cross a kid off their list if they even THINK he's working with Boras.
So if as you say "Since most people on this site have children in college or high school"
Don't you think that should be taken into consideration?
Furthermore you said:
"pops Member"
"The value of an agent starts when arbitration is approaching for the young major leaguer."
Arbitration is crucial for a young player & Boras has lost 9 of his last 10. Even more important is the art of making a deal without having to go to a hearing. More often than not, because of their loathing for the man & his poor record in recent cases, teams won't negotiate with Boras on his arbitration eligible cases once figures get exchanged.
"He has his own staff of scouts and also sees the players himself. Being a good judge of talent and understanding a players real value is a talent that he has."
Big deal. Do you seriously think that he has any better idea of a players worth than his team does? If that were true, why has he lost so many cases in arbitration? This is a selling point that is so bogus as to be beyond a fantasy. How about the 100 pages of BS he sent to teams about ARod that his "staff" compiled. That must've been what impressed Tom Hicks so much right?
I guess Boras is busy enough that he doesn't have time to piss his time off on message board for high school and college players...................
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
voodoo,
You sneaked the words "present value" in there and with the max payments of $10 mill per year, there is no way you can be wrong, because the PV of the 4 $10 million payments is already less than $40.
I added the words "present value" because if Pudge signs a deal like the one he had last year for $3million in '03 with $7 million deferred @ no interest, I hardly think it's fair to call that a $10 million deal because the present value of it is $9,289,000 not $10 million.
You may not be the only Einstein in the world............
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
I guess Boras is busy enough that he doesn't have time to piss his time off on message board for high school and college players...................
How do you know? Pops could actually be Boras in disguise.
VC
so could you !!!!
TRhit
so could you !!!!
TRhit
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
VC
so could you !!!!
TRhit
THE TRUTH FINALLY COMES OUT!
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
I guess Boras is busy enough that he doesn't have time to piss his time off on message board for high school and college players...................
OK OK I have to come clean. I'm actually Dick Cheney & what with the polls being so good & all there's not much to do here in my "secure location" but listen to my pacemaker hum so I have some time to check on HS Baseball.
Voodoo. I enjoy your participation no matter what I might think about you. Its hard to give your posts any credibility without knowing who you are. If we knew who you are it might be even harder to give you any credibility. Einstien was a genius and a fool. 4 of the 5 you got right. You have been around but not enough. You failed to mention one of the most important. Now I have to think again about just how valid you are.
I may not agree with everything Voodoo/Michael/Scott/Dick (or whatever his next alias is) has to say. BUT he has made some very important points in this post that some people refuse to consider. Especially his assessments of Boras and Pudge.
If Rodriguez can get 4yrs, let alone $10 mill a year, in these times, then Detroit is surely out to lunch. They could have him for half that. Not that it's going to help them much.
And I for one would not jump to sign with an agent with no arbitration experience - I would hope that most people would expect to sign with one agent and be with him for their entire career. THere are many considerations to evaluate when assessing an agent. Experience is surely one of them. Every player drafted expects to get to the majors one day - do you want to be the first player that agent attempts to win an arbitration case with? And multi-year deals are at least as important.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
If Rodriguez can get 4yrs, let alone $10 mill a year, in these times, then Detroit is surely out to lunch. They could have him for half that. Not that it's going to help them much.
And I for one would not jump to sign with an agent with no arbitration experience - I would hope that most people would expect to sign with one agent and be with him for their entire career. THere are many considerations to evaluate when assessing an agent. Experience is surely one of them. Every player drafted expects to get to the majors one day - do you want to be the first player that agent attempts to win an arbitration case with? And multi-year deals are at least as important.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
"4 of the 5 you got right. You have been around but not enough. You failed to mention one of the most important. Now I have to think again about just how valid you are."
Doc, I hate to break it to you, but the 6 count 'em 6 criteria are right from the "Basic Agreement Between The 30 Major League Clubs And Major League Baseball Players Association". You can find them there on pages 17 & 18. You might want to check your facts with Sneezy, Grumpy & Bashful.
I'll post who I am as soon as I see how it is relevant to the subject & everyone else who posts here agrees to identify themselves as well.
"4 of the 5 you got right. You have been around but not enough. You failed to mention one of the most important. Now I have to think again about just how valid you are."
Doc, I hate to break it to you, but the 6 count 'em 6 criteria are right from the "Basic Agreement Between The 30 Major League Clubs And Major League Baseball Players Association". You can find them there on pages 17 & 18. You might want to check your facts with Sneezy, Grumpy & Bashful.
I'll post who I am as soon as I see how it is relevant to the subject & everyone else who posts here agrees to identify themselves as well.
Voodoo,
I am not interested in your identity.
Would you just list three agencies that represent baseball players that have web sites?
I don't care if you list yourself or not.
I just like to learn more about your industry.
Please just point me in the right direction.
I am not interested in your identity.
Would you just list three agencies that represent baseball players that have web sites?
I don't care if you list yourself or not.
I just like to learn more about your industry.
Please just point me in the right direction.
PCX,
Thank you. That's all I wanted.
Thank you. That's all I wanted.
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Voodoo,
I am not interested in your identity.
Would you just list three agencies that represent baseball players that have web sites?
I don't care if you list yourself or not.
I just like to learn more about your industry.
Please just point me in the right direction.
If you're truly interested contact the MLBPA @ 212-826-0808. Wouldn't recommend either of the groups that PCX mentioned unless you're interested in being a guppy in the Pacific Ocean.
Voodoochile, Wow, you don't think much of the other agents do you? What is your response to the bonus money that Boras has negotiated for the drafted players compared to his fellow agents? I think that many agents are jealous of Boras because he has such a top notch client list, and has embarrassed many of them at draft time by negotiating contracts that are much larger than most of the other guys.
I don't know what his 100 page effort did for A-Rod, but he negotiated a $250 million dollar deal for him and how about Brown, Maddux and the two best deals of all time for Chan Ho Park and Driefort. About a 100 mill for two guys that have done nothing since or very much before. Detroit may be lacking, but Boras is not, and in the tightening of the belt times that are going on right now, he may just prove his worth again.
I don't know what his 100 page effort did for A-Rod, but he negotiated a $250 million dollar deal for him and how about Brown, Maddux and the two best deals of all time for Chan Ho Park and Driefort. About a 100 mill for two guys that have done nothing since or very much before. Detroit may be lacking, but Boras is not, and in the tightening of the belt times that are going on right now, he may just prove his worth again.
I provided web sites not endorsements.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
"Voodoochile, Wow, you don't think much of the other agents do you?"
There are a few I happen to think highly of. However your boy Boras isn't one of them.
"What is your response to the bonus money that Boras has negotiated for the drafted players compared to his fellow agents?"
He's gotten some good deals for some players, not so good deal for others. Don't forget the cost & I don't mean his commission. If your team despises your Agent what will they think of you for choosing him? Remember David Espinosa & Dane Sardinha? What about their deals?
"I think that many agents are jealous of Boras because he has such a top notch client list"
Not jealous of him at all. Enjoy being able to look myself in the mirror. Wouldn't trade places with him for Bill Gates' money. Not if I had to do what he's done to too many players.
"has embarrassed many of them at draft time by negotiating contracts that are much larger than most of the other guys."
He never embarassed any of my deals. As to the guys he has embarassed, it's almost always been at the cost of their relationship with their team. How many of his clients get scouting, coaching, broadcasting jobs with their former teams when they're done playing? Almost none because they won't forgive them for their Agents'conduct.
"I don't know what his 100 page effort did for A-Rod, but he negotiated a $250 million dollar deal for him"
That now hangs like a millstone around his neck. ARod would give $100 mill. to get out of the deal if he could.
" the two best deals of all time for Chan Ho Park and Driefort."
Can't disagree that those two are astonishing deals. Chan Hopeless & Dreifort should be naming all their kids after him. I'd like to know who he has blackmail pictures of & what they were doing in the pictures to come up with those deals.
Still wouldn't touch the guy if you were holding the 20 foot pole& paying his commission.
"Voodoochile, Wow, you don't think much of the other agents do you?"
There are a few I happen to think highly of. However your boy Boras isn't one of them.
"What is your response to the bonus money that Boras has negotiated for the drafted players compared to his fellow agents?"
He's gotten some good deals for some players, not so good deal for others. Don't forget the cost & I don't mean his commission. If your team despises your Agent what will they think of you for choosing him? Remember David Espinosa & Dane Sardinha? What about their deals?
"I think that many agents are jealous of Boras because he has such a top notch client list"
Not jealous of him at all. Enjoy being able to look myself in the mirror. Wouldn't trade places with him for Bill Gates' money. Not if I had to do what he's done to too many players.
"has embarrassed many of them at draft time by negotiating contracts that are much larger than most of the other guys."
He never embarassed any of my deals. As to the guys he has embarassed, it's almost always been at the cost of their relationship with their team. How many of his clients get scouting, coaching, broadcasting jobs with their former teams when they're done playing? Almost none because they won't forgive them for their Agents'conduct.
"I don't know what his 100 page effort did for A-Rod, but he negotiated a $250 million dollar deal for him"
That now hangs like a millstone around his neck. ARod would give $100 mill. to get out of the deal if he could.
" the two best deals of all time for Chan Ho Park and Driefort."
Can't disagree that those two are astonishing deals. Chan Hopeless & Dreifort should be naming all their kids after him. I'd like to know who he has blackmail pictures of & what they were doing in the pictures to come up with those deals.
Still wouldn't touch the guy if you were holding the 20 foot pole& paying his commission.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bee:
today's Detroit Free Press -
"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."
"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."
For another view of Pudge/Maddux/Boras check out this story:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1712521
today's Detroit Free Press -
"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."
"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."
For another view of Pudge/Maddux/Boras check out this story:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1712521
Interesting article re:Boras & the Agent biz:
http://www.freep.com/sports/tigers/rosey21_20040121.htm
http://www.freep.com/sports/tigers/rosey21_20040121.htm
BRYAN GREIPER TAKES CARE OF HIS CLIENTS AND I FEEL THAT MAKES HIM ONE OF THE BEST AGENTS.
quote:
Originally posted by YoBo:
BRYAN GREIPER TAKES CARE OF HIS CLIENTS AND I FEEL THAT MAKES HIM ONE OF THE BEST AGENTS.
Haven't heard his name before. Who are his clients?
Former Observer....Very reputable.
http://business4.odc.net/athletesfirst_v255/home.asp
"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward
"Baseball is Life"
http://business4.odc.net/athletesfirst_v255/home.asp
"If you can imagine it you can create it. If you can dream it, you can become it". William Arthur Ward
"Baseball is Life"
Thanks Starzz.
I haven't had time to look at all of them yet.
Did not realize that agents operate in multiple sports. I thought they usually were specialists in one sport. Maybe so within the firms.
Intrigued by the impact of marketing and broadcasting issues.
More to learn here than just hiring an agent.
More to it than just contract negotiaton. Might have had a tendency to do it myself. Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent. Broader area than my skill set.
It really ain't time yet, so I need to keep readin.............
I haven't had time to look at all of them yet.
Did not realize that agents operate in multiple sports. I thought they usually were specialists in one sport. Maybe so within the firms.
Intrigued by the impact of marketing and broadcasting issues.
More to learn here than just hiring an agent.
More to it than just contract negotiaton. Might have had a tendency to do it myself. Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent. Broader area than my skill set.
It really ain't time yet, so I need to keep readin.............
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starzz:
Former Observer....Very reputable.
http://business4.odc.net/athletesfirst_v255/home.asp
Are you aware of the $44.6 million judgement against this firm from the lawsuit that also put them into bankruptcy? Testimony in the trial clearly showed legal & ethical transgressions on the part of the people at the top of this firm. You may want to check http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/ for details. Look before you leap.
Former Observer....Very reputable.
http://business4.odc.net/athletesfirst_v255/home.asp
Are you aware of the $44.6 million judgement against this firm from the lawsuit that also put them into bankruptcy? Testimony in the trial clearly showed legal & ethical transgressions on the part of the people at the top of this firm. You may want to check http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/ for details. Look before you leap.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FormerObserver:
"Did not realize that agents operate in multiple sports."
Many try to work in multiple sports. As is the case in many fields, it usually works better for the client if you specialize. Nobody can do everything & do it as well as people who specialize in their individual areas.
"Intrigued by the impact of marketing and broadcasting issues."
Don't get blinded by someone pitching their expetise in marketing & broadcasting. First of all the number of people with true experience in those fields is small & secondly, for 99% of players the "impact of marketing and broadcasting issues." will be minimal. VERY few players in Baseball make an amount equal to 10% of their salaries off the field. For example, LeBron James' $90 million Nike deal has NO parallel in Baseball. You'd be hard pressed to find ANY player in Baseball getting 1% of that amount.
"More to it than just contract negotiaton."
Yes, but that's the "meat & potatoes" issue. Without a contract, you're a fan on the outside looking in rather than a player with a chance at a future in MLB.
"Might have had a tendency to do it myself."
HUGE mistake. You don't have the experience necessary, you don't have the contacts & most of all you can't be objective about your own flesh & blood.
"Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent."
This is probably an accomodation of the hoops to jump through re: NCAA BS. Call them advisors for the NCAA, call them agents for MLB,doesn't matter it's all the same thing.
"It really ain't time yet, so I need to keep readin............."
Good idea. You never hear someone say they made a mistake because they had TOO MUCH information.
"Did not realize that agents operate in multiple sports."
Many try to work in multiple sports. As is the case in many fields, it usually works better for the client if you specialize. Nobody can do everything & do it as well as people who specialize in their individual areas.
"Intrigued by the impact of marketing and broadcasting issues."
Don't get blinded by someone pitching their expetise in marketing & broadcasting. First of all the number of people with true experience in those fields is small & secondly, for 99% of players the "impact of marketing and broadcasting issues." will be minimal. VERY few players in Baseball make an amount equal to 10% of their salaries off the field. For example, LeBron James' $90 million Nike deal has NO parallel in Baseball. You'd be hard pressed to find ANY player in Baseball getting 1% of that amount.
"More to it than just contract negotiaton."
Yes, but that's the "meat & potatoes" issue. Without a contract, you're a fan on the outside looking in rather than a player with a chance at a future in MLB.
"Might have had a tendency to do it myself."
HUGE mistake. You don't have the experience necessary, you don't have the contacts & most of all you can't be objective about your own flesh & blood.
"Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent."
This is probably an accomodation of the hoops to jump through re: NCAA BS. Call them advisors for the NCAA, call them agents for MLB,doesn't matter it's all the same thing.
"It really ain't time yet, so I need to keep readin............."
Good idea. You never hear someone say they made a mistake because they had TOO MUCH information.
"Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent."
This is probably an accomodation of the hoops to jump through re: NCAA BS. Call them advisors for the NCAA, call them agents for MLB,doesn't matter it's all the same thing.
----------------------------------------------
When you have to deal with the NCAA, everything matters........especially advisor/agent
This is probably an accomodation of the hoops to jump through re: NCAA BS. Call them advisors for the NCAA, call them agents for MLB,doesn't matter it's all the same thing.
----------------------------------------------
When you have to deal with the NCAA, everything matters........especially advisor/agent
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bbscout:
"When you have to deal with the NCAA, everything matters........especially advisor/agent"
NCAA is a "paper tiger". They know their regs are BS & would never stand up to a court challenge. Obviously you don't want your kid to be the test case. Therefore, you call your Agent an advisor. If it walks like a duck etc.
For the last 20 years, the most they have done to any kid who was "caught" or turned himself in for having an Agent was to suspend him for 10% of his games the next year. Most recent was Jeremy Sowers having to sit out 6 games his Freshman year.
"When you have to deal with the NCAA, everything matters........especially advisor/agent"
NCAA is a "paper tiger". They know their regs are BS & would never stand up to a court challenge. Obviously you don't want your kid to be the test case. Therefore, you call your Agent an advisor. If it walks like a duck etc.
For the last 20 years, the most they have done to any kid who was "caught" or turned himself in for having an Agent was to suspend him for 10% of his games the next year. Most recent was Jeremy Sowers having to sit out 6 games his Freshman year.
voodoo, there have been much larger penalties handed out in other sports. Baseball may be a matter of time. Why take any chances?
Yes, Sowers missed about 30% of his starts and that would really irk me if I was his dad, so we will have an advisor only. If it was your son, you would probably call him an advisor also.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
voodoo, there have been much larger penalties handed out in other sports.
Such as?
voodoo, there have been much larger penalties handed out in other sports.
Such as?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bbscout:
"Yes, Sowers missed about 30% of his starts and that would really irk me if I was his dad, so we will have an advisor only."
Sowers missed a total of 6 of his teams'games. As a starting pitcher, that means he missed 2 starts. How does that constitute 30% of his starts?
"If it was your son, you would probably call him an advisor also."
If my Son grows enough to be a draft prospect, I won't worry about the NCAA. They'll have to worry about me. You can call me whatever you want. "You can throw your boots in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits" An Agent is an Agent is an Agent.
"Yes, Sowers missed about 30% of his starts and that would really irk me if I was his dad, so we will have an advisor only."
Sowers missed a total of 6 of his teams'games. As a starting pitcher, that means he missed 2 starts. How does that constitute 30% of his starts?
"If it was your son, you would probably call him an advisor also."
If my Son grows enough to be a draft prospect, I won't worry about the NCAA. They'll have to worry about me. You can call me whatever you want. "You can throw your boots in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits" An Agent is an Agent is an Agent.
OK, my bad......Sowers missed two starts. That is two starts more than need be . It could have been handled with ease and it should have been handled without a penalty to a fine young pitcher.
If you want to fight the NCAA over the word advisor/agent, be my guest. Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too.
If you want to fight the NCAA over the word advisor/agent, be my guest. Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bbscout:
"OK, my bad......Sowers missed two starts. That is two starts more than need be . It could have been handled with ease and it should have been handled without a penalty to a fine young pitcher."
Wasn't trying to start an argument. I agree with you 100% re: the fact that Sowers' situation could have been handled better. However, it doesn't seem to have hurt Jeremy's career.
Over the years I have represented MANY players who turned down the draft & played in D1 schools with no problem. Have a client I represented 3 years ago playing right now for a major D1 school who'll be drafted in June.
"Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too."
Thanks sincerely for your kind wishes. Hope the same for you & yours as well.
"OK, my bad......Sowers missed two starts. That is two starts more than need be . It could have been handled with ease and it should have been handled without a penalty to a fine young pitcher."
Wasn't trying to start an argument. I agree with you 100% re: the fact that Sowers' situation could have been handled better. However, it doesn't seem to have hurt Jeremy's career.
Over the years I have represented MANY players who turned down the draft & played in D1 schools with no problem. Have a client I represented 3 years ago playing right now for a major D1 school who'll be drafted in June.
"Hope your son does not get hurt. Hope he turns out to be a good player too."
Thanks sincerely for your kind wishes. Hope the same for you & yours as well.
so what's the distinction between advisor/agent with regard to NCAA?
got me confused...again..
got me confused...again..
voodoochile ...
That is absolutely one of the funniest lines I have ever read ... especially since you obviously haven't tasted my biscuits.
Thanks for the lift ... some lines are just too funny to go un-noticed.
H-mom
********************
Go Highlanders ! ! ! !
********************
quote:
You can throw your boots in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits
That is absolutely one of the funniest lines I have ever read ... especially since you obviously haven't tasted my biscuits.
Thanks for the lift ... some lines are just too funny to go un-noticed.
H-mom
********************
Go Highlanders ! ! ! !
********************
quote:
Originally posted by Texas2004:
so what's the distinction between advisor/agent with regard to NCAA?
got me confused...again..
Sorry to confuse you Tex. From a strictly technical point of view, the NCAA sees an Advisor as someone who gives you advice on how to handle negotiations yourself but that's it i.e. he never talks to the team only tells you how to talk to the team. It's like a Dr. telling you how to do surgery on yourself.
An Agent handles all the aspects of the negotiations from trying to help create interest in a player to the final signed contract.
quote:
Originally posted by pops:
Detroit may be lacking, but Boras is not, and in the tightening of the belt times that are going on right now, he may just prove his worth again.
FROM : askba@baseballamerica.com.
By Jim Callis
Jan. 16, 2004
Does anyone really believe that there's spirited competition for Greg Maddux' services? The only thing more far-fetched is the idea that Ivan Rodriguez entered the offseason hoping he'd wind up in Detroit. If I were running the Cubs, I'd give Maddux and agent Scott Boras a deadline and move on, rather than be played in a bidding war that doesn't exist.
Pudge 4 years 40 million its official.
If I am not mistaken,isn't it only 2 years guarenteed. Doesn't that make it 2 year 20 million. If that is the case, wasn't the Florida offer better? I don't know the facts yet.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
Found this on the mlb website.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
quote:
After an unexpected three-week courtship that began with Rodriguez still on the market in mid-January, the finishing touches were put on the deal late Sunday night between the Tigers and agent Scott Boras. It includes clauses that allow the Tigers to end the deal early if Rodriguez spends more than five weeks on the disabled list with a lumbar spinal injury in one of the next three seasons. There's also a $13 million team option for 2008, which the Tigers can either pick up or buy out for $3 million.
the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
Here's what I found,
He also said:
Frank
PASSION - "There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
quote:
Rodriguez gets $7 million this year, $8 million in 2005 and $11 million each in 2006 and 2007, according to contract information obtained by The Associated Press. The Tigers have a $13 million option for 2008 with a $3 million buyout.
Rodriguez would get $50 million over five years if the option is exercised or $40 million over four if it’s declined.
He also said:
quote:
Rodriguez, 32, said the reported offer of $24 million over three years from the Marlins was inaccurate. Some of the money in that proposal wasn’t guaranteed and much would have been deferred.
‘‘If that offer was true, I would’ve probably taken that offer, but it was not that offer,’’ he said.
Frank
PASSION - "There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
1) Fla. has no State income tax therefore the Marlins' offer was worth more than it seemed on the surface.
2) As poorly as this deal was handled leading to all the bad feeling this has generated, even if Detroit offered double what the Marlins did is it worth it to a man who already had more than he could spend in 2 lifetimes? Says
something about the man he is I guess.
Posted on Tue, Feb. 03, 2004
Bottom line: Pudge makes a dash for dollars
DAN LE BATARD
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/7860711.htm
2) As poorly as this deal was handled leading to all the bad feeling this has generated, even if Detroit offered double what the Marlins did is it worth it to a man who already had more than he could spend in 2 lifetimes? Says
something about the man he is I guess.
Posted on Tue, Feb. 03, 2004
Bottom line: Pudge makes a dash for dollars
DAN LE BATARD
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/7860711.htm
VC,
I agree but you left one thing out, endorsements he would have gotten from the latin/tri county communities might have made up the difference. I guess his agent overlooked that.
I think it was more about ego rather than dollars and sense.
I agree but you left one thing out, endorsements he would have gotten from the latin/tri county communities might have made up the difference. I guess his agent overlooked that.
I think it was more about ego rather than dollars and sense.
Love Pudge's play, but this is a man with life-sized bronze statues of himself in his garden (per SI article...with pics). Ego? Ya think?
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
quote:
Originally posted by baseonballs50:
VC,
I agree but you left one thing out, endorsements he would have gotten from the latin/tri county communities might have made up the difference. I guess his agent overlooked that.
I think it was more about ego rather than dollars and sense.
Not ego. EGO! Both his & his Agent.
Orlando,
I tried that one.
My wife had a different idea. She suggested I make a life-size pinata of myself - and also requested that I order her a nice 32-29 Omaha Classic bat for use on the pinata.
Needless to say - Im a bit concerned. LOL
I tried that one.
My wife had a different idea. She suggested I make a life-size pinata of myself - and also requested that I order her a nice 32-29 Omaha Classic bat for use on the pinata.
Needless to say - Im a bit concerned. LOL
The good news, its, is that she was still willing to only go after the pinata-you with the bat....it's when she skips the pinata and goes straight to the 'original' that you have to worry! 
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:
Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
The last thing a Player wants is to hear his negotiations described as "lose-lose".
Can't link the story so here it is from BB Amer:
Pudge’s contract turned into worst-case scenario
by Mike Berardino
February 14, 2004
FORT LAUDERDALE—Lenny Harris has seen Cooperstown-level catching greatness up close before.
When he was with the Mets’ 2000 pennant winner, Harris lockered next to Mike Piazza and marveled at his ability to dial up the intensity. Baseball’s career pinch-hits leader got the same sort of feeling last season dressing next to Ivan “Pudge” Rodriguez in the Marlins clubhouse.
“Pudge is a special player,” said Harris, who joined the club in August. “Just like Piazza, he really gets focused for a game, gets locked in. It’s just the intensity those guys have when that bell rings.”
The great Don Mattingly would stand in front of his locker in those final moments before Yankees games, silently swinging a bat, letting his teammates know it was time to get serious. The way Harris sees it, Rodriguez carries the same sort of inspirational heft.
Especially after leading the upstart Marlins through an unlikely run to the World Series title.
“Thirty minutes before the game, Pudge gets stretched out and goes down to the cage and hits,” Harris said. “It’s like watching Ray Lewis play a football game. That’s how this guy prepares himself to play a ballgame. It’s tough to find that anywhere.”
Welcome To Detroit
Crazy as it sounds, Rodriguez will be found displaying that intensity for at least the next two years (and possibly four) in Detroit, of all places.
The Tigers—the lowly, 119-loss Tigers—were the only ones willing to meet the catcher’s demands for a four-year, $40 million contract, even if they weighed it down with more escape hatches than a Hollywood prenup.
If the catcher misses at least five weeks with a lumbar spine injury in either of the next two seasons, for instance, the contract can be voided after he’s made just $15 million. Break a wrist and he’s golden, but don’t mess with the back, man.
You can say Rodriguez left for the money, but team sources say the Marlins’ final offer way back on Dec. 7 actually guaranteed the catcher more cash than the deal he eventually signed with the Tigers.
The Marlins, who were contractually prohibited from offering Rodriguez arbitration, apparently offered him two years and $16 million with a vesting option that could have pushed the total value to $24 million.
Factor in Michigan’s 4 percent state income tax—Florida has none—and the Marlins’ guarantee was $1.6 million (or 11 percent) richer.
Rodriguez disputes those numbers. After signing with the Tigers and getting ripped in the South Florida media, he called a press conference at his opulent Miami Beach home to give his side of the story.
“I just asked them for something fair for my family, for myself and for the club,” he said. “They offered me $6.5 million a year for the next two seasons, and the way they wanted to pay me the money, I don’t think that was fair.”
With heavy and lengthy deferments, the Marlins’ offer, according to Rodriguez, would have wound up totaling closer to $10 million in net present value. That’s not much more than the $9.32 million in NPV they paid to rent Rodriguez for just the 2003 season.
“I feel a little disappointed because I thought they would have treated me a little better,” Rodriguez said. “I would have felt much happier if they told me, ‘Listen, we can’t afford you. You can’t be with us,’ and probably I walk out very happy. The way they did all these negotiations for me was a little tough.”
Not saying Rodriguez was having a hard time letting go, but he said this three days after signing with the Tigers and nearly two full months after cutting ties with the Marlins.
Countered Marlins president David Samson: “We wish him the best success in Detroit and hope that his two-year guaranteed contract turns into four.”
Ouch.
Plenty Of Pride
Simply put, this parting was all about pride. On both sides.
And neither Rodriguez nor the Marlins is better for the experience.
Instead of playing another couple of years at home, taking his kids to school and building on a burgeoning local legend, Rodriguez must spend his Aprils in freezing temperatures, trying to survive as a righthanded hitter at cavernous Comerica Park.
Instead of overpaying slightly and going along with their catcher’s understandable resistance to a pay cut, the Marlins will try to defend their title with Mike Redmond and Ramon Castro behind the plate.
Call it a lose-lose negotiation.
Surely there have been quickie divorces that have ended more messily than this one, but Britney Spears and Jason Allen Alexander appear almost dignified by comparison.
“I love Pudge,” one Marlins official said. “The guy is a heck of a player. He helped us win a championship. But man, what an ego.”
Now might be a good time to get out your pocket schedules and circle June 11-13. We can hardly wait for the Marlins to make that interleague visit to Detroit so the mud can start flying again.
Mike Berardino is the national baseball writer at the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. He can be reached at mberardino@sun-sentinel.com.
Can't link the story so here it is from BB Amer:
Pudge’s contract turned into worst-case scenario
by Mike Berardino
February 14, 2004
FORT LAUDERDALE—Lenny Harris has seen Cooperstown-level catching greatness up close before.
When he was with the Mets’ 2000 pennant winner, Harris lockered next to Mike Piazza and marveled at his ability to dial up the intensity. Baseball’s career pinch-hits leader got the same sort of feeling last season dressing next to Ivan “Pudge” Rodriguez in the Marlins clubhouse.
“Pudge is a special player,” said Harris, who joined the club in August. “Just like Piazza, he really gets focused for a game, gets locked in. It’s just the intensity those guys have when that bell rings.”
The great Don Mattingly would stand in front of his locker in those final moments before Yankees games, silently swinging a bat, letting his teammates know it was time to get serious. The way Harris sees it, Rodriguez carries the same sort of inspirational heft.
Especially after leading the upstart Marlins through an unlikely run to the World Series title.
“Thirty minutes before the game, Pudge gets stretched out and goes down to the cage and hits,” Harris said. “It’s like watching Ray Lewis play a football game. That’s how this guy prepares himself to play a ballgame. It’s tough to find that anywhere.”
Welcome To Detroit
Crazy as it sounds, Rodriguez will be found displaying that intensity for at least the next two years (and possibly four) in Detroit, of all places.
The Tigers—the lowly, 119-loss Tigers—were the only ones willing to meet the catcher’s demands for a four-year, $40 million contract, even if they weighed it down with more escape hatches than a Hollywood prenup.
If the catcher misses at least five weeks with a lumbar spine injury in either of the next two seasons, for instance, the contract can be voided after he’s made just $15 million. Break a wrist and he’s golden, but don’t mess with the back, man.
You can say Rodriguez left for the money, but team sources say the Marlins’ final offer way back on Dec. 7 actually guaranteed the catcher more cash than the deal he eventually signed with the Tigers.
The Marlins, who were contractually prohibited from offering Rodriguez arbitration, apparently offered him two years and $16 million with a vesting option that could have pushed the total value to $24 million.
Factor in Michigan’s 4 percent state income tax—Florida has none—and the Marlins’ guarantee was $1.6 million (or 11 percent) richer.
Rodriguez disputes those numbers. After signing with the Tigers and getting ripped in the South Florida media, he called a press conference at his opulent Miami Beach home to give his side of the story.
“I just asked them for something fair for my family, for myself and for the club,” he said. “They offered me $6.5 million a year for the next two seasons, and the way they wanted to pay me the money, I don’t think that was fair.”
With heavy and lengthy deferments, the Marlins’ offer, according to Rodriguez, would have wound up totaling closer to $10 million in net present value. That’s not much more than the $9.32 million in NPV they paid to rent Rodriguez for just the 2003 season.
“I feel a little disappointed because I thought they would have treated me a little better,” Rodriguez said. “I would have felt much happier if they told me, ‘Listen, we can’t afford you. You can’t be with us,’ and probably I walk out very happy. The way they did all these negotiations for me was a little tough.”
Not saying Rodriguez was having a hard time letting go, but he said this three days after signing with the Tigers and nearly two full months after cutting ties with the Marlins.
Countered Marlins president David Samson: “We wish him the best success in Detroit and hope that his two-year guaranteed contract turns into four.”
Ouch.
Plenty Of Pride
Simply put, this parting was all about pride. On both sides.
And neither Rodriguez nor the Marlins is better for the experience.
Instead of playing another couple of years at home, taking his kids to school and building on a burgeoning local legend, Rodriguez must spend his Aprils in freezing temperatures, trying to survive as a righthanded hitter at cavernous Comerica Park.
Instead of overpaying slightly and going along with their catcher’s understandable resistance to a pay cut, the Marlins will try to defend their title with Mike Redmond and Ramon Castro behind the plate.
Call it a lose-lose negotiation.
Surely there have been quickie divorces that have ended more messily than this one, but Britney Spears and Jason Allen Alexander appear almost dignified by comparison.
“I love Pudge,” one Marlins official said. “The guy is a heck of a player. He helped us win a championship. But man, what an ego.”
Now might be a good time to get out your pocket schedules and circle June 11-13. We can hardly wait for the Marlins to make that interleague visit to Detroit so the mud can start flying again.
Mike Berardino is the national baseball writer at the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. He can be reached at mberardino@sun-sentinel.com.
vc,
Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients. Also, could you name some of the clients you have represented in the past? Thanks!
Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients. Also, could you name some of the clients you have represented in the past? Thanks!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrOctober:
vc,
"Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients."
The worst "thieves" are the "Beverly Hills Sports Council". Jeff Moorad "stole" IRod from Scott Boras then IRod went back to Boras. Manny Ramirez has been represented by almost everyone in the biz except me before Moorad "stole" him a few years back. Same thing with Raul Mondesi.
Luis Catillo was signed with literally 5 different agents last year during the World Series until the MLBPA intervened & made him choose one. The list goes on & on & on.
If I list my clients, I may as well post my address, phone number, social security number, bithday & favorite color. I prefer not to.
vc,
"Do you have any stories of "bigger" name agents stealing high profile clients."
The worst "thieves" are the "Beverly Hills Sports Council". Jeff Moorad "stole" IRod from Scott Boras then IRod went back to Boras. Manny Ramirez has been represented by almost everyone in the biz except me before Moorad "stole" him a few years back. Same thing with Raul Mondesi.
Luis Catillo was signed with literally 5 different agents last year during the World Series until the MLBPA intervened & made him choose one. The list goes on & on & on.
If I list my clients, I may as well post my address, phone number, social security number, bithday & favorite color. I prefer not to.
I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal.
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal.
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
Hard to give you a number. Usually, Players will follow your advice depending on the situation i.e. how long you've been their Agent & has your "track record" been more right than wrong.
I believe Blalock switched Agents just a couple of years ago so maybe he didn't feel confident that turning down $15 million for the chance at more money was such a good idea.
Good stategy on the part of the team. Put the Player in a position where he sees the carrot on the end of the stick clearly & subtly plant the thought that he's one blown ligament/bad season away from ever seeing that many zeros on a check again. The StRangers probably saved themselves enough money to pay Chan Hopeless for a week or 2over the 5 years the signed Blalock for.
I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal.
How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T?
And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case?
Hard to give you a number. Usually, Players will follow your advice depending on the situation i.e. how long you've been their Agent & has your "track record" been more right than wrong.
I believe Blalock switched Agents just a couple of years ago so maybe he didn't feel confident that turning down $15 million for the chance at more money was such a good idea.
Good stategy on the part of the team. Put the Player in a position where he sees the carrot on the end of the stick clearly & subtly plant the thought that he's one blown ligament/bad season away from ever seeing that many zeros on a check again. The StRangers probably saved themselves enough money to pay Chan Hopeless for a week or 2over the 5 years the signed Blalock for.
